Asinine and unfair closings

[Trujillo]

Closing massage parlors is stupid. 

These places could be models for "social distancing." You are in close contact with one person, you are separated from others by at least 6 feet and a curtain, and sometimes a different room, and if you get a foot massage and there are lots of people, you can sit every other chair. It's a model of how to keep a business running and be keeping your distance. 

 

You are always at least 6 feet away from fellow exercisers at the gym. 

 

If you close bars, what about restaurants? Waitresses and waiters are going from table to table, touching every plate on all the tables they serve. Knives, forks, spoons, chopsticks, dishes and bowls are all shared, although washed before (how well are these washed?).

 

Why are we getting parking cards at places like Central malls and BigC Extra? How many grimy hands have these card been through? 

 

Closing only certain venues seems irrational if the goal really is to improve social distancing. Are buses closed? Planes? Markets? What's the difference here? 

 

Is the government going to subsidize these businesses for lost income? My guess is no. 

 

It's a pathetic move to follow what the some other farang countries are doing, regardless of thinking if it's even applicable here. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

There is panic in high places.

Chiang Rai is business as usual, with the exception of the Night Bazaar. All the beer bars and girls on Jedyod Road are open for business.

People here are wearing masks mainly for the air pollution. Hand sanitisers at Big C and Central Festival.

[Matzzon]

Who said that life must be fair? Just have to follow the rules. It ain´t that hard.

[glennb6]

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Who said that life must be fair? Just have to follow the rules. It ain´t that hard.

and when rules become tyranny....

 

" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

 

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-- "

 

woops, sorry, wrong country - here they just have military coops.

[geriatrickid]

I believe it futile to explain to some  the need and direct benefits for social distancing. They will need to find out first hand.  They can then look back (if still alive) and understand that a 30-60 day suspension of business will have been better than the financial ruin that lies ahead for those who only cared about themselves.

[Logosone]

Closing massage parlors is stupid. 

These places could be models for "social distancing." You are in close contact with one person, you are separated from others by at least 6 feet and a curtain, and sometimes a different room, and if you get a foot massage and there are lots of people, you can sit every other chair. It's a model of how to keep a business running and be keeping your distance. 

 

I went to get a massage a couple of days ago as I feared they would do this. The place I go to has separate rooms. A scrupulously clean 23 year old masseuse with skills of divine touch.

 

To deprive a good honest farang of such pleasure is not just stupid, it is almost cruel and unusual punishment. 

 

I wouldn't dream of going to those curtain places though, I need separate rooms for privacy. 

[greeneking]

25 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

I believe it futile to explain to some  the need and direct benefits for social distancing. They will need to find out first hand.  They can then look back (if still alive) and understand that a 30-60 day suspension of business will have been better than the financial ruin that lies ahead for those who only cared about themselves.

30-60 day suspension of business will be financial ruin for many....

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

Closing massage parlors is stupid. 

it is exactly the first best place to close.

the idea is to get as far away from other the human beings as possible. 

not having a person touching you and then another and another and breathing the same air as you for a hour or more. 

THAT IS THE WHOLE IDEA FOR THE ENTIRE PLANET. 

Go home. Stay home.

 

 

 

[anto]

As my Thai ex wife has a massage business in C.M .,i hope that they are closed down for 10 years plus . 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Who said that life must be fair? Just have to follow the rules. It ain´t that hard.

Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.

You've never encountered a stupid rule?

[Trujillo]

Part of my point is that closing some businesses and not others with similar or more contact among people is ridiculous. 

 

How is a bar different from an establishment serving food? Why not close banks? All those people in the same place sitting as close as the now closed theaters? 

 

But oh, the danger! So horrible so far! Already ONE (1) person has died out of the entire population of 69,040,000,000. Are you scared? I know I am. 

(I should mention that the person who died already had Dengue fever, but let's not get distracted by the facts....)

 

[shdmn]

What I think is stupid at this point is stopping all international flights.  It is everywhere and all the major spreading is internal to each country now.  It made sense to isolate China when it was mostly just there.  It probably makes sense for Italy and Iran right now.  That's about it.

 

It also makes sense to prevent putting lots of people close together but in that case you should stop all domestic flights as well.

Edited March 20, 2020 by shdmn

[CGW]

47 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

Go home. Stay home.

Any words of wisdom for the huge prison population in Thailand? ????

Either it's being kept very quiet or ? 

[donnacha]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

A scrupulously clean 23 year old masseuse

This particular virus is extremely contagious and is asymptotic during its most infectious stage.

It does not matter how scrupulously clean someone looks, they can catch it and spread it just as easily as anyone else. Given the nature of their job, masseuses would be a higher than average risk.

You probably won't have any problems if you catch it yourself, just a bad flu for a week or so, but you have to think about whether you will be in contact with anyone over the age of 60, or with diabetes, very common in Thailand. If you have a girlfriend, she could spread it to her parents. You could even spread it from one masseuse to another, who in turn would spread it to vulnerable people in her family.

If this thing takes hold in an older or otherwise vulnerable person, you get "wet lungs", meaning you essentially drown from the inside. You will not be allowed any visitors and the only humans you see will be wearing hazmat suits.

If they treat you with a ventilator, you have about a 80% chance of surviving, but with permanent cognitive damage from the ventilator, permanent lung damage from the flu, and permanent kidney damage from the medication.

If they run out of ventilators - which they will, very soon - the only treatment for wet lungs is to position the patient upside down, in an attempt to allow gravity to drain him, and hope he develops his own antibody fightback before he drowns. That is deeply uncomfortable and only works in around 10% of cases. That is why the death rates are so high in Italy - they simply had fewer ventilators than China and Korea.

Again, not a worry for most people, but the folks over 60 are in more trouble than they realize.

[orchis]

2 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Closing massage parlors is stupid. 

These places could be models for "social distancing." You are in close contact with one person, you are separated from others by at least 6 feet and a curtain, and sometimes a different room, and if you get a foot massage and there are lots of people, you can sit every other chair. It's a model of how to keep a business running and be keeping your distance. 

do you get massaged with a 6 foot pole?

[donnacha]

24 minutes ago, CGW said:

Any words of wisdom for the huge prison population in Thailand? ????

Either it's being kept very quiet or ? 

In countries all over the world, prisoners are being released on ethical grounds. This thing will scythe through prison populations.

In Thailand, they do not need to do that. Miraculously, Thailand, by far the most popular vacation destination for the citizens of Wuhan, has somehow managed to almost entirely avoid getting this flu. With only 5 people infected per million, Thailand is thriving compared to, say, Iceland, who had hardly any visitors from Wuhan but have 1,200 infected per million.

Lucky, lucky Thailand. Even so, however, I strongly recommend avoiding any activities that could lead to incarceration. Including questioning the official statistics.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by donnacha

[CGW]

18 minutes ago, donnacha said:

This thing will scythe through prison populations.

That was my point, why hasn't it?

Luck - you make your own luck in life ????

[orang37]

There are "massage parlors," where those words are a euphemism for encounters of another type, and, there are places for nuwat boran (traditional Thai massage).

 

If you are an expat living here, and don't grasp the distinction, I congratulate you on your naivete, or Alzheimer's ????

 

Now, what would you assume about the demographics of patrons of the first type of establishment mentioned ... in terms of risk-taking, drug/alcohol use, self-care, immune system vulnerability, etc. ?

 

How often would you guess the first type of establishment clean their bedding, towels, sheets, etc. ?  How often, do you think these places have workers that are hill-tribe, and/or relatively uneducated, or, have had any training ?

 

I don't feel good writing this because it may, unfortunately, be painting using a brush too big, it may, in spite of me, cast aspersions on people by type.

 

For myself, I wouldn't go to the first type of venue ... virus, or no virus,

 

Unfortunate the nuwat boran venues get swept under the rug !

 

~o:37;

[Canuck1966]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Who said that life must be fair? Just have to follow the rules. It ain´t that hard.

why should you follow the rules like a sheep?

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, shdmn said:

What I think is stupid at this point is stopping all international flights.  It is everywhere and all the major spreading is internal to each country now.  It made sense to isolate China when it was mostly just there.  It probably makes sense for Italy and Iran right now.  That's about it.

 

It also makes sense to prevent putting lots of people close together but in that case you should stop all domestic flights as well.

Yes, it is everywhere, but unfortunately here is what we are seeing in real time;

- Snowbirds from Canada  have been returning home. Many of them have refused to self isolate such that they present a risk to the general population.

- Almost all of the infections in parts of the USA and Canada have been sourced from travelers, specifically the EU, and Caribbean. 

- Some EU countries who have had fewer international travelers have had fewer infections.

- China is seeing the reintroduction of infection because of people coming back from the EU.

 

The international  suspension is just that, a temporary measure. Ideally, all international travelers would self isolate before and after traveling but many refuse. One need only look at TVF to see the mentality of some people. Or  look at the idiots congregating in the outside beer bars.

 

Domestic flights in  Canada & the USA  are quickly ramping down from 50% capacity to probably  25%. The  domestic travel is allowed because there is a need for some to travel. 

Some EU countries  have selfish, ignorant populations who refused to accept  the need for self isolation. Others have. Why should the responsible countries and people suffer because some only think of themselves.

 

After seeing the idiots partying and the crowded venues in the UK, why would anyone want to continue international travel with the UK? Same for  France and Italy. The Italians are getting it now.  Look at the jerks on spring break in Florida.  Many people who chose to get on an airplane to travel internationally as much as a month ago were aware of the crisis. They must accept responsibility for their own choices. Those of us who saw this coming in January and acted accordingly have a right to protect ourselves

[anto]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

This particular virus is extremely contagious and is asymptotic during its most infectious stage.

It does not matter how scrupulously clean someone looks, they can catch it and spread it just as easily as anyone else. Given the nature of their job, masseuses would be a higher than average risk.

You probably won't have any problems if you catch it yourself, just a bad flu for a week or so, but you have to think about whether you will be in contact with anyone over the age of 60, or with diabetes, very common in Thailand. If you have a girlfriend, she could spread it to her parents. You could even spread it from one masseuse to another, who in turn would spread it to vulnerable people in her family.

If this thing takes hold in an older or otherwise vulnerable person, you get "wet lungs", meaning you essentially drown from the inside. You will not be allowed any visitors and the only humans you see will be wearing hazmat suits.

If they treat you with a ventilator, you have about a 80% chance of surviving, but with permanent cognitive damage from the ventilator, permanent lung damage from the flu, and permanent kidney damage from the medication.

If they run out of ventilators - which they will, very soon - the only treatment for wet lungs is to position the patient upside down, in an attempt to allow gravity to drain him, and hope he develops his own antibody fightback before he drowns. That is deeply uncomfortable and only works in around 10% of cases. That is why the death rates are so high in Italy - they simply had fewer ventilators than China and Korea.

Again, not a worry for most people, but the folks over 60 are in more trouble than they realize.

>>f they treat you with a ventilator, you have about a 80% chance of surviving, but with permanent cognitive damage from the ventilator, permanent lung damage from the flu, and permanent kidney damage from the medication.<<  I think i would prefer to just die .Give the ventilator to somebody who loves this life more than i ever did . 

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, Trujillo said:

It's a pathetic move to follow what the some other farang countries are doing, regardless of thinking if it's even applicable here. 

I think you're underestimating the situation.

 

You're going to be in for the shock of a lifetime over the next few months as society unravels and breaks down.

[shdmn]

18 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I think you're underestimating the situation.

 

You're going to be in for the shock of a lifetime over the next few months as society unravels and breaks down.

Don't forget about the zombies.  Did you learn nothing from "The Walking Dead" tv series?  That's exactly how it started.  Open your eyes!

Edited March 20, 2020 by shdmn

[Lacessit]

22 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I think you're underestimating the situation.

 

You're going to be in for the shock of a lifetime over the next few months as society unravels and breaks down.

I think you are underestimating the resilience of the human race.

Has China broken down? AFAIK it is recovering.

Certainly the elderly and those with compromised immune systems will be in the firing line.

What got us to the peak of evolution on this planet was our adaptability, we don't see polar bears living in the tropics, or camels in the Arctic.

[ukrules]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Has China broken down? AFAIK it is recovering.

I'd give it another couple of months before making a judgement on that.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

I'd give it another couple of months before making a judgement on that.

According to the latest news from there ( yes, I know false data is possible, if not probable ) they have had their first day where no new cases have been recorded/diagnosed.

[Number 6]

Wow. So much self entitlement and petulance.

 

You really should go back to your home country. You are bored and obviously have no purpose here. I don't see Thailand having a need to entertain people like yourself in times such as these.

 

You obviously are absolutely clueless to matters of basic hygiene even to think that in normal times such an area is free of communicable disease.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Number 6

[donnacha]

53 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

According to the latest news from there ( yes, I know false data is possible, if not probable ) they have had their first day where no new cases have been recorded/diagnosed.

No new cases in Hubei province, previously the epicenter. A notable achievement, certainly, but the spread continues in other provinces.

The number of new infections is now more politically and economically sensitive than ever. The narrative that they dealt with the crisis decisively and effectively is central to the Communist Party's continued stranglehold on power. All stats coming out of China should be treated with at least some skepticism.

 

[Matzzon]

9 hours ago, glennb6 said:

and when rules become tyranny....

 

" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

 

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-- "

 

woops, sorry, wrong country - here they just have military coops.

I thought we were discussing about closings and act regarding to safety for the people in the country during a virus outbreak. Oooh, yes! We do! I just checked the thread. 

 

That means you are saying that rules which are created to minimise the virus outbreak are to be compared with tyranny. Good thinking, man!

[Matzzon]

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.

You've never encountered a stupid rule?

Yes, I have encountered many, based on my opinion, stupid rules. Most of the time, my opinion doesn´t count, though. I do not have the education, manpower or tools to assess the reason or the right or wrong regarding the rules. In that case you just have to trust the people in charge. In this case most will probably not have the education either, but they will have the manpower and the tools, which is 2 out of 3 I don´t have.

 

Just out of curiosity. Here we are discussing unfair closings. Why do you think and believe it´s stupid? I see it like this. First I put a value on the necessity of and open restaurant compared to and open bar as an example. In my book eating come out on top of drinking alcoholic beverages. To me that means the bars should be closed before the restaurants. On top of that, I also believe that closing unnecessary places where people can gather during a virus outbreak will have a bigger chance of minimizing the damage than leaving it open. Let me hear. Argue against that logic, please. What do you think, and what do you believe?