My Frustrating Experienc With The New 30 Day Visa Rules-be Forewarned It's A Very Long Post

[bkkandrew]

Good Idea!

Lets do something like that.

e could do up some signs in thai about the rasism and the amount of money we bring into the country and childish treatment of rich white foreigners.

I bought a house here 2 years ago and since then changed to 30 year lease. the 3x30 year lease is just a lie, another thai trick that they screw us over on.

I'm so embarrassed by Thais now, i really am.

Anyway I earn about 800,000 a year from back in England have a house here but am still treated like a black in america a hundred years ago.

I always tell them back home when asked ever to come her to go to any other asian country instead. They are all about the same except for the blatant racism and fake childish lies and scams in thailand are worse.

If it wasn't for the long term girl i would never set foot in this rasist place again. maybe we will break up soon and i'll be free, free i tell you, free.

Embarrassing Thailand. Embarrassed for them.

Harsh, but I am ashamed to say, verging on truth...

[JR Texas]

Very good clear report..

And sadly the worst case of screwed over I have read yet..

JR Texas: Thanks for the post and conclusion that "we are all in the same boat."

Put differently, you may think that you have it made now and the rules and regulations can't touch you, but think again....they are constantly changing and the bar is constantly being raised...one day it just might reach you too.

In my view, the anti-foreigner climate took off with the Toxin administration.....over the past six years the visa and business rules and regulations have constantly changed and the changes have hurt the expat community and investor confidence.

The rules/regulations as they exist today are a crazy and mindless attempt to drive foreigners out of the country. Do this...do that....jump through that hoop....jump through this hoop....go there this week.....no, it is a different situation this week so you must go over there instead.....on and on and on. Totally nuts!

The message is simple: We do not want you here. Leave.

Those that are not totally xenophobic think that they are making things better and sending out a positive message. They believe that, in the end, only rich expats and tourists will come to Thailand. Unfortunately, they know nothing about basic economics.

The rules and regulations are generating uncertainty....potential investors and retirees don't like uncertainty. They are also greatly reducing small scale investment because they are way beyond frustrating.

People are being hurt by the current visa/business rules and regulations.........mostly Thais. How long this situation will last in hard to say. Perhaps when the real estate market crash becomes official they will wake up.

[blizzard]

ive only been cumming to thailand for less than 4 years but i know better than to buy real property here. do you guys do it to impress your thai lady?

[loong]

[This is a subject that always fascinates me. In a developing country like Thailand, can there ever be "too many foreigners"?

After all ,these'foreigners usually have adequate funds either inside the Kingdom or accessible via ATM.

Many foreigners are supporting Thai families and participate in the local economy of their home towns, wherever they are in Thailand.

I agree there are probably thousands of dodgy characters and criminal types but this xenophobic attitude that seems to be the current fashion is surely not in the long term interests of The Kingdom. After all 'immigrants' traditionally have contributed to the wealth and development of numerous countries (USA,Canada, UK, Australia,N.Z.etc)

I realise that Thailand is a small country but there aren't millions of people lining up to come here. In fact there ought to be a plan that if a British man wants to come here, a Thai could take his place in the U.K. (for how long-no-one knows)

One can only hope that at some point in the not too distant future, the ability to stay in this country will be made easier by the enlightened blink.gif members of the government.

I would love to know how P.M. Surayud and General Sonthi feel about all this. jap.gif

I would say that the economy in Isaan would suffer terribly without the support of farang money. But the people in charge basically don't give a **** about the lower classes

... I quote form precedent post "they love the farang", well, not quite my experience, some do though...

anyway, to cut those endless discutions about our necessity and how we help thailand, does anybody actually have some kind of figures showing, estimating, how much money coming from abroad is spent by perpetual tourists and expats in thailand ? because I'm one of those perpetual tourists and not so rich, so I suffer a lot from those new regulations as well,but I still objectively seriously doubt thai economy would suffer much would we all go back home.some families would.

don't know though, but would like to.

It would be interesting to know how much expats and perpetual tourists contribute to the economy

I have have been told that there are about 1,000,000 who fit this category, but I have no idea if this is based on any actual facts or just a figure plucked from the air.

500,000 is believable and if you assumed 500,000 Baht per year per person that's 250 billion baht or

7 billion $

I must stress that this is only a guess and I suspect that the actual contribution to the economy is much higher. It would be good to know if anyone has a source of actual figures though.

[phil2]

This is the first time I’ve posted on Thai visa news although I’ve been a lurker for quite some time. I’d like to clarify my situation before I report my experience. I’ve been coming to Thailand for the past nine years and I use it as my base. I don’t work here and I’m not a visa runner. I work in Taiwan. I spent about 5 months a year in Thailand, 4-5 months a year in Taiwan, maybe 1 month in the states visiting my parents and maybe another month traveling in the region. I’m not old enough for a retirement visa; I’m 42. Just so you know this will be a very long report on the enforcement of the new 30 day visa exempt rules.

When they announced the new visa restrictions in September, I made sure to get a tourist visa. However, the Thai embassy in NYC would only give me a single entry visa as a matter of policy (that’s all they give anyone). In a way, this visa was useless to me because it was only valid for 3 months and I would not be hear for an extended period of time, but I was playing it safe as it would still be valid in the beginning of 2007 when they said they would be enforcing the new rules. I then plunked down the 3800 baht for a multiple re-entry permit (something I will never do again-a complete waste of money for someone in my situation) on it so I would get as much mileage out of the visa and minimize my days in Thailand on the free 30 day entries.

Now here is where my story gets interesting. I arrived in Thailand on March 14th from a trip to the PI after they had started to count the days spent in Thailand on the 30 day visa exempt at the airport. I arrived first on October 4th and spent 8 days. Then I arrived on Oct 31 and spent 9 days. I arrived on November 30th for a 21 day visit. I had two visits on my tourist visa for a total of 21 days, but these were not counted (Jan 11-Jan23 and Feb 19-March 6) as they were on the tourist visa. The visa officer was unsure how many days to give me on the stamp, which was strange. I was talking to him and the visa officer next to him in Thai. The office next to him said that I had only used 38 of the 90 free days so to give me a full stamp. Eventually he did.

On the 17th I left to Honk Kong and returned on the 20th. When I came in at the airport, the immigration office was only going to give me a stamp allowing me to stay until April 3rd even though I had only used 41 of my 90 days. She and the officer next her said that since my 6 months were up that I would have to leave on that day. I began to argue and pushed to get my full 30 days. I had only used 41 days, and it would only take a very cursory look at my passport to see that I wasn’t living or working here and that I was just a frequent visitor. They took me to speak to a supervisor.

When I went to speak to the supervisor, there were about 6 officers there. I pushed my case. I showed them the stamp when I arrived on the 14th and was allowed to stay until April 12th. Why would they only give me to April 3rd when I arrived on the 20th, only 6 days later. They said there was a new rule that at the end of the month period you must leave Thailand regardless if how many days you have spent in the country if you are using the 30 day entry. They showed me the memo in Thai. It meant nothing to me since even though I could speak ok Thai (my vocabulary is not so large) my reading skills are weak. I said that this was not convenient for me and was there anything special they could do for me. They said no, but that all I needed to do was to go to Aranyaprathet. I didn’t need to spend money on a plane ticket out. I will say that I was quite polite to the officers and they were very friendly. Also, my appearance was quite neat and proper. I’m 42 years old and don’t look like a bum or sleazy sexpat (not there is anything wrong with that

I was quite miffed by this new unannounced rule and decide to go to Suan Phlu and try to get this changed or at least some decent explanation. When I arrived in Suan Phlu I first discussed it with a officer at the information desk. They saw that I had only used 41 days and sent me to the counter to get my stamped changed. When I talked to them(as I said before my conversations were in Thai except for a few words in English to make up for some of my deficiencies in vocabulary), they said that there was a new rule that at the end of the 6 months you had to leave whether or not you had used your 90 days. I complained. I said I had done everything by the rules. I only used 41 days. I had gotten a tourist visa because immigration had wanted everyone to get a background check. I wasted 3800 baht on a reentry permit. I don’t work. I’m not a visa runner. It’s very obvious from my passport. On one day they gave me until April 12th and then 6 days later they gave me until April 3rd. They said the 1st officer had made a mistake. I then pointed out that if someone came into Thailand on Oct. 4 and left on Oct. 5 and then came back on April 2nd using the 30 day visa exempt stamp that person would have to leave on April 3rd. They said yes that person would. I said that this wasn’t fair. They agreed. I said I wanted to complain. They sent me to room 205.

When I got there, I repeated the whole story. They said yes I had done nothing wrong and that it wasn’t fair, but I had to leave anyway. They said the best they could do for me was to give me a week extension for 1900 baht. I said that I didn’t want to pay this. They told me to go to Aran. It was only 4 hours away. They said I would have to wait until April 4th to reenter and get my next set of 90 days on my 2nd 6 month period. I told then I didn’t like Cambodia so they suggested that I overstay one day. I said that I was concerned that Aran might have different rules because immigration was decentralized and could they give me a note instructing Aran immigration to let me in. They said they couldn’t because it was a different chain of command. They only have authority in BKK. Aran was in central command. The airport was also a different command (I believe there are 6 different commands in total). I had already known this so I asked if they thought I would have any problem getting in. They said no. They told me that 3 or 4 other people had already complained about this. I asked them how things would be 6 months from now; they said they weren’t sure.

April 3rd comes along and I take the trip to Aran. I decide not to overstay since I know that sometimes there is a problem with this. Manage to find the casino bus by Lumpini to take me straight to the border. It was a little confusing because I haven’t left Thailand by a land route in 3 or 4 years. When I get there, I go up to an officer who is free and ask him about my situation, being very polite. I ask if I can return on the same day. He says no problem as long as I have a forward air ticket out of Thailand. It’s a new rule. LMAO! I was shocked, but not terribly. TIT! I then went to talk to the supervisor. There were two other westerners there with the same problem. They were speaking to him in English. I spoke to him in Thai. I showed him my passport and told him that both Suan Phlu and the airport told me to come and renew my stamp at Aran. I showed him my stamps which clearly show that I’m not a visa runner, didn’t work here and was just a frequent visitor. I told him I followed all the rules. He said that this was a new rule-ANOTHER UNANNOUNCED NEW RULE! He was sympathetic and said that the government didn’t want people crossing back and forth at the land crossing and that I should go to the airport. This was funny. I would have laughed if I weren’t truly disgusted. I now was forced to overstay by immigration. I told him I didn’t want to do this. He kind of gave me a sad look. I turned straight back to BKK. I talked to a Thai sitting next to me on the bus. I was so upset I told him how the new government doesn’t like foreigners anymore. He was surprised as have all other Thais I’ve mentioned this to have been. Most Thais don’t even realize this is happening.

The next day after I got back to BKK, I booked a flight to Singapore on Tiger Air. I also called my travel agent. I told her about how I was turned back at Aran and asked her to find out the new rules. When she got back to me she told me that the people at immigration weren’t sure and that the rules were changing rapidly. They didn’t know how things would be in the future; she asked them to stop doing this as it was losing her business many customers. What a disgrace to run a country this way. I guess the head of immigration is behaving autocratically now that the CNS is in power and changing the rules on his own whims.

When I got to the airport on the 6th, I had to pay a 3 day fine. While paying the fine, I discussed my case with the officers there. An older officer with some rank came to discuss things with me. I talked to him for about 20 minutes. Again the officers were very sympathetic. I told him the rules were not fair now. He agreed. As all the officers I had already talked to before had said, he had told me these new rules were a headache for them. He complained that the manual counting of days on a rolling basis at the airport without a proper computer program was a problem. We agreed that it wasn’t an intelligent policy. He said that the person who is making the rules now has never had to take care of an immigration office and deal with people coming and going from the kingdom. He had to send an evaluation report every month to his superiors and every time he complained about the new rules. He also talked about the uneven enforcement of the rules. He asked me whether the days on a tourist visa and the 30 day visa exempt days be counted together. I said no. He said that some officers do and some don’t depending on where you are. I know that the immigration policy is to be decentralized and allow officer discretion, but THIS IS LUDICROUS. TIT.

When I came back on the 9th, I had a copy of my reservation at the end of the month, but was not asked for it. I told the officer I was starting my second period of 6 months and showed her the relevant stamps. She very quickly gave me a new set of 30 days without asking to see a forwarding ticket so this rule is not being enforced at the airport. I’m now back in Thailand.

Many people on this board always say that the rules are the rules, and the only people who will have problems here are the bad ones. This is rubbish. I followed the rules and still was forced to leave. They just change the rules like we change our shirts. Right now they are changing the rules at the drop of a hat. Maybe they are posting them on the Thai Immigration website or maybe you need to call the different posts or commands to find them out, but immigration is making no effort to make them freely available on this website or in any papers. The officers themselves are not sure what is happening and in many cases disagree with them, but have to follow them. It seems clear that this is done on purpose by the person in charge to make foreigners so frustrated that they leave, or that the person in charge is a petty dictator or incompetent and does things by the seat of his pants.

I see some posters saying that the new rules must be done logically and that the people with problems are ones who are up to now good. However, with a cursory look at my passport, it is easy to see that this is not the case. Yet, the officers don’t have the discretion to make an exception. Thus, the logic appears to be that the person in charge wants foreigners here out. Maybe you are here on a non-immigrant, retirement or work visa, and your rules will be changed without notice and you will be screwed or have to jump through hoops to stay as well. I think things here will get worse before they get better. Periodically in Thai history they have accepted foreigners and then expelled them. It appears that we are at a stage when some diehard anti-foreigners are in charge now, and attempting this.

In the past, being polite and neat in presentation when dealing with immigration would help one. The officers could use their discretion and decide who to be tough with and who to treat well. Although all the officers were polite and sympathetic to my case, they had nothing they could do even though they agreed with me (or at least said they did). This approach seems to no longer work.

This whole experience was very frustrating. I hope that sometime in the near future there will be some consistency and coherence in the immigration rules. Unfortunately, I think that things will only get worse.

I talked to a Thai sitting next to me on the bus. I was so upset I told him how the new government doesn’t like foreigners anymore.

It was THE LAST government that actually made the new rules not this government.I'm affected too,but the truth is they made the rules before they were kicked out and this new government haven't actually had the time to change anything. Just Imagine showing 400,000 three months in advance before applying to renew your marriage visa.They are going to start giving a 5 year visa in Malaysia to people married to citizens.

Edited April 16, 2007 by phil2

[SPALAX]

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

That's not what I was saying at all. There are a huge number of foreigners living in Thailand, and it's ridiculous that we are treated in such a condescending, completely careless way. We should really do something about it.

Last week, an estimated 500,000 people marched in protest of unfair immigrations laws in the US. These people were protesting to make it easier for "illegal aliens" to gain residency. They were protesting new government regulations that would make it more difficult for "illegal aliens" to become permanent residents. And the crazy part is, in the US hundreds of thousands of "illegal aliens" can march in protest, and the rules will actually change in their favor.

( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11442705/ )

What would happen if the farangs in Thailand did something similar? I think it's about time...

I agree with you. but if farang would have to organize a march or demonstrate in Thailand their first purpose should be that tourists visas should usually be granted to any thai citizen

by farang consulates which is far from being the case.

On a long term basis this kind of action could be efficient.

[uk_falang]

Good post

I live your nick!

1. Your first 30 day entry was Oct 4 so your six month period ended 3 April. Last entry prior to that day only gets the number of days remaining in that six month period. This seems to be the normal way immigration is using the six month rule. Unfortunately not many people had any idea that this would be the case prior to it happening.

2. Ticket out of the country has always been a requirement for 30 day entry, just as 10,000 baht is required. Previously they have seldom been checked but starting this month the tickets are become a normal requirement at some border crossings.

3. Do not understand how you obtained a 3,800 baht re entry permit for a visa. These are issued by immigration, not Consulates, for permitted to stay stamps, prior to exit, after you are in Thailand and are only valid for the period of the stay stamp (60 days for a tourist visa entry).

The exact rules for 30 day stay have not been clearly explained and highly advise anyone that can to use tourist visas to avoid any possible problems this might cause.

I understand your first point now Lopburi, but it was not clearly explained prior to its implementation.

As to your 2nd point, yes I knew that these rules were on the books, but they were never enforced. This was the first time in around 50-100 trips in and out of thailand over 9 years when something like this was requested of me.

Point 3-The 3800 baht for the multiple re-entryrentry permit was paid after my entry to the kingdom on my ftourist visa in January.

To have to use a tourist visa on every trip is extemely difficult and costly. I've come 6 times in the last 6 months, four on the free 30 days and 2 on my tourist visa. At times I only come for as few as 4 days. Your advice makes sense, but as the officer at the airport said to me when I paid my overstay, many embassies want you to get this in your country of origin(although I hear that penang is still good). Manila, Vientiane, Phnom Penh, and Yangoon are all no good. This would be an extravagant cost for a 4 day stay!

[uk_falang]

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

That's not what I was saying at all. There are a huge number of foreigners living in Thailand, and it's ridiculous that we are treated in such a condescending, completely careless way. We should really do something about it.

Last week, an estimated 500,000 people marched in protest of unfair immigrations laws in the US. These people were protesting to make it easier for "illegal aliens" to gain residency. They were protesting new government regulations that would make it more difficult for "illegal aliens" to become permanent residents. And the crazy part is, in the US hundreds of thousands of "illegal aliens" can march in protest, and the rules will actually change in their favor.

( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11442705/ )

What would happen if the farangs in Thailand did something similar? I think it's about time...

Erm as far as I know all political demostrations are now illegal, I wouldnt try it

[LivinLOS]

I talked to a Thai sitting next to me on the bus. I was so upset I told him how the new government doesn’t like foreigners anymore.

It was THE LAST government that actually made the new rules not this government.I'm affected too,but the truth is they made the rules before they were kicked out and this new government haven't actually had the time to change anything. Just Imagine showing 400,000 three months in advance before applying to renew your marriage visa.They are going to start giving a 5 year visa in Malaysia to people married to citizens.

I have heard this argument used many times.. But theres a massive difference in rules being put on the books and rules being actually enforced or implemented..

The implementation of the 30 day stamps is being done to cause the maximum difficulty IMO.. Both fixed blocks, causing short stamps and rolling blocks not counting down days on 6 months as they get older.. Plus after 6 months people are being told dont come back without a TV.. Why ?? If the 6 months is up why dont they now get new visa exempt stamps.

Then theres the lack of multiple entry's available in local SEA.

Then theres no investment visa

Then theres 40 money needed for marriad visa's

Each part of this is being implemented fully and firmly.. It would be quite easy for them to implement this is a softer way, to have carried on with the older systems, to have not rocked the boat.. You have to conclude its the 'new' government who are handing down these interpretations blaming this on thaksin the boogyman seems like pretty far fetched reaching to me..

[PeaceBlondie]

"Each part of this is being implemented fully and firmly.. " - I don't think so. Other posters point out that only a few land crossings like Aranyaphet and Ban Laem are enforcing the rule about an onward ticket. When's the last time the 10,000/20,000 baht cash on hand rule was enforced?

I doubt there's an organized conspiracy. Maybe not even a disorganized conspiracy. Maybe it's just some local heads of office who are trying to cut down on their workload by pulling rabbits and regulations out of their hat to scare away the perpetual tourists who haven't seen a real visa in all the years they've lived here.

I'm not criticizing the poor victims who are stuck in Thailand without a visa, if they have no real way to get a visa. I'm just saying they're the victims of this disorganized bureaucratic crackdown.

[vermin on arrival]

It was THE LAST government that actually made the new rules not this government.I'm affected too,but the truth is they made the rules before they were kicked out and this new government haven't actually had the time to change anything. Just Imagine showing 400,000 three months in advance before applying to renew your marriage visa.They are going to start giving a 5 year visa in Malaysia to people married to citizens.

Phil2,

Yes, these rules were started by Toxin. As I stated in a reply to my first post here, since 2000 the rules here have been continuosly gotten more strict for us like a notch being turned up on a rack. However, either this governement or the head of immigration and his cronies have seen fit to enforce them in a way that really is harsh. They could have chosen not to enforce them or to scrap them, but they didn't, and now things are much worse.

Peace Blondie,

I believe that the confusion and disorganization is done intentionally to make farang want to leave. Nobody likes to deal with the huge amount of uncertainty that these people are creating. Any official I talked to during this fiasco( and I talked to many from 3 different jurisdictions-Suan Phlu, Airport and Aran) said the orders came down from up high. They may not have been telling the truth, but that is what they said. Yes, they don't always enforce all of the silly rules, but I still respectfully disagree with your interpretation.

I also think that this affects more people than you may realize.

Edited April 16, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[PeaceBlondie]

I apologize to vermin on arrival. This overall mis-management of visas does affect more than just the perpetual tourists without visas. Teachers appear to be leaving in droves, driven out by the near impossibility of being legal within three years of teaching here. Retirees have had their goalposts moved, and it's not as easy to get to an embassy or Thai consulate that will issue good visas. Business laws, existing and proposed, appear to be squeezing the farang as well.

[zeusbheld]

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

seems to me that the litany of "their country, their rules" combined with the BS about how if the rules don't work for you, you must be some sort of ne'er-do-well, is by far the most over-used and condescending cliche on thaivisa. gold medalist by far. even though in the endless discussion of visa issues, cliches are generated at blistering speed, it's still tipped to retain its title for the foreseeable future.

nice detailed report OP. with enough of the right detail one of the thaivisa mandarins can swoop in and diagnose the cause of your misfortune (nice diagnosis Lopburi)

as to toxie being anti-foreigner and the new government being pro-foreigner, ain't exactly true. toxie was first and foremost a politician and was playing to the cheap seats (there is a significant grass-roots demographic that is quite xenophobic). the new guys ain't exactly rushing in to embrace foreigners, and have taken a few shots at screwing things up further for foreigners. most likely for the same reason. i find it highly unlikely that the nice new guys will clean up all these nasty visa rules ina farrang friendly way. the cliches got something right about it though--we can whinge all we want but at the end of the day if they decide to make things worse for us farrangs, ain't much we can do about it.

[Pepe']

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

That's not what I was saying at all. There are a huge number of foreigners living in Thailand, and it's ridiculous that we are treated in such a condescending, completely careless way. We should really do something about it.

Last week, an estimated 500,000 people marched in protest of unfair immigrations laws in the US. These people were protesting to make it easier for "illegal aliens" to gain residency. They were protesting new government regulations that would make it more difficult for "illegal aliens" to become permanent residents. And the crazy part is, in the US hundreds of thousands of "illegal aliens" can march in protest, and the rules will actually change in their favor.

( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11442705/ )

What would happen if the farangs in Thailand did something similar? I think it's about time...

---------------------------------

Just a guess now, but I think if they demonstrated like the demonstrations going on here in the US.

They would be first beaten, maybe shot if not then arrested beaten more and then fined and deported.

Did I miss anything?

[LivinLOS]

Blacklisting ??

[PeaceBlondie]

Is it really xenophobia (fear of foreigners and things foreign), or isolationism? Is Thailand just trying to isolate itself from an outside world it always tried to avoid? Isn't most people's understanding of self-sufficiency one in which Thailand can take care of itself without foreign influence?

Is it a love/hate relationship in which the Thais who actually decide what Thailand is, want modern infrastructure without the attached cultural influences? Such as, teach us how to build the skytrain, and then go home? Now we want English teachers, then we don't? We want casual cheap tourists, from the West, then from Asia, then we want higher quality, free-spending tourists. We want rich husbands for our poor women, but we don't want too many sexpats......it's so confusing. It's as if the generals are in control, but nobody's really in control except the autonomous units at the border, poring over illegible passports.

[otherstuff1957]

Feel free to delete this if I'm to far off topic, but I just got back from a trip upcountry (Sukhothai) for Songkran. While I was there I had a chat with a local fellow who had worked in BKK and Singapore and who spoke English fairly well. He asked me if I had to make visa runs and later said that he thought that in 5 years there would be no more Farangs in Thailand!

He wasn't hostile and he didn't say whether he thought that this would be good or bad, just that he thought that it would be so. This was the first time that I've encountered a Thai who was even aware of visas and the recent changes.

[JR Texas]

Feel free to delete this if I'm to far off topic, but I just got back from a trip upcountry (Sukhothai) for Songkran. While I was there I had a chat with a local fellow who had worked in BKK and Singapore and who spoke English fairly well. He asked me if I had to make visa runs and later said that he thought that in 5 years there would be no more Farangs in Thailand!

He wasn't hostile and he didn't say whether he thought that this would be good or bad, just that he thought that it would be so. This was the first time that I've encountered a Thai who was even aware of visas and the recent changes.

JR Texas: History seems to show that sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. Put differently, the level of pain that the majority experience must increase to the degree that it is no longer tolerable and widely apparent to the masses.

At that point collective action will take place, sometimes peaceful but increasingly in the world we live in violent. Then the door to positive change will open.

But if the free flow of useful and constructive information is not allowed to reach the public via the mainstream mass media, a ruling elite minority might convince the public to continue down a self-destructive path, especially if xenophobia clouds their judgment.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."

--John F. Kennedy

I am afraid that we are in for some tough times ahead...........

[jii]

what a load of malarky. everyone knows the RULES ARE THE RULES. you just werent following them. if you had been following the rules none of these fabricated tales from the dark side would of happened. i mysef as so many many other law abiding thai visa citizens have no troubles at all in this the land of smiles. this the land where no one every grows old and people are never cold.

YOU CAN'T DO WRONG DOING RIGHT!!!! maybe that should be tattoed on somewhere for you to see. if you read any of the posters here youll see so many of us never ever get ourselves into trouble cause we always follow the rules. are kind and gentle and always the warmest smile on our faces. the milk of human kindness is what i have on offer. looks like this vermin was D.O.A. so many times at church ive made a pray to god. "oh god please protect me from the inflideles. next sunday at church ill ask god if he will forgive you you sinner for your sins and grant you a coverted 1 month visa. can you say RULES ARE THE RULES? come on you can do it.

This is the first time I’ve posted on Thai visa news although I’ve been a lurker for quite some time. I’d like to clarify my situation before I report my experience. I’ve been coming to Thailand for the past nine years and I use it as my base. I don’t work here and I’m not a visa runner. I work in Taiwan. I spent about 5 months a year in Thailand, 4-5 months a year in Taiwan, maybe 1 month in the states visiting my parents and maybe another month traveling in the region. I’m not old enough for a retirement visa; I’m 42. Just so you know this will be a very long report on the enforcement of the new 30 day visa exempt rules.

When they announced the new visa restrictions in September, I made sure to get a tourist visa. However, the Thai embassy in NYC would only give me a single entry visa as a matter of policy (that’s all they give anyone). In a way, this visa was useless to me because it was only valid for 3 months and I would not be hear for an extended period of time, but I was playing it safe as it would still be valid in the beginning of 2007 when they said they would be enforcing the new rules. I then plunked down the 3800 baht for a multiple re-entry permit (something I will never do again-a complete waste of money for someone in my situation) on it so I would get as much mileage out of the visa and minimize my days in Thailand on the free 30 day entries.

Now here is where my story gets interesting. I arrived in Thailand on March 14th from a trip to the PI after they had started to count the days spent in Thailand on the 30 day visa exempt at the airport. I arrived first on October 4th and spent 8 days. Then I arrived on Oct 31 and spent 9 days. I arrived on November 30th for a 21 day visit. I had two visits on my tourist visa for a total of 21 days, but these were not counted (Jan 11-Jan23 and Feb 19-March 6) as they were on the tourist visa. The visa officer was unsure how many days to give me on the stamp, which was strange. I was talking to him and the visa officer next to him in Thai. The office next to him said that I had only used 38 of the 90 free days so to give me a full stamp. Eventually he did.

On the 17th I left to Honk Kong and returned on the 20th. When I came in at the airport, the immigration office was only going to give me a stamp allowing me to stay until April 3rd even though I had only used 41 of my 90 days. She and the officer next her said that since my 6 months were up that I would have to leave on that day. I began to argue and pushed to get my full 30 days. I had only used 41 days, and it would only take a very cursory look at my passport to see that I wasn’t living or working here and that I was just a frequent visitor. They took me to speak to a supervisor.

When I went to speak to the supervisor, there were about 6 officers there. I pushed my case. I showed them the stamp when I arrived on the 14th and was allowed to stay until April 12th. Why would they only give me to April 3rd when I arrived on the 20th, only 6 days later. They said there was a new rule that at the end of the month period you must leave Thailand regardless if how many days you have spent in the country if you are using the 30 day entry. They showed me the memo in Thai. It meant nothing to me since even though I could speak ok Thai (my vocabulary is not so large) my reading skills are weak. I said that this was not convenient for me and was there anything special they could do for me. They said no, but that all I needed to do was to go to Aranyaprathet. I didn’t need to spend money on a plane ticket out. I will say that I was quite polite to the officers and they were very friendly. Also, my appearance was quite neat and proper. I’m 42 years old and don’t look like a bum or sleazy sexpat (not there is anything wrong with that

I was quite miffed by this new unannounced rule and decide to go to Suan Phlu and try to get this changed or at least some decent explanation. When I arrived in Suan Phlu I first discussed it with a officer at the information desk. They saw that I had only used 41 days and sent me to the counter to get my stamped changed. When I talked to them(as I said before my conversations were in Thai except for a few words in English to make up for some of my deficiencies in vocabulary), they said that there was a new rule that at the end of the 6 months you had to leave whether or not you had used your 90 days. I complained. I said I had done everything by the rules. I only used 41 days. I had gotten a tourist visa because immigration had wanted everyone to get a background check. I wasted 3800 baht on a reentry permit. I don’t work. I’m not a visa runner. It’s very obvious from my passport. On one day they gave me until April 12th and then 6 days later they gave me until April 3rd. They said the 1st officer had made a mistake. I then pointed out that if someone came into Thailand on Oct. 4 and left on Oct. 5 and then came back on April 2nd using the 30 day visa exempt stamp that person would have to leave on April 3rd. They said yes that person would. I said that this wasn’t fair. They agreed. I said I wanted to complain. They sent me to room 205.

When I got there, I repeated the whole story. They said yes I had done nothing wrong and that it wasn’t fair, but I had to leave anyway. They said the best they could do for me was to give me a week extension for 1900 baht. I said that I didn’t want to pay this. They told me to go to Aran. It was only 4 hours away. They said I would have to wait until April 4th to reenter and get my next set of 90 days on my 2nd 6 month period. I told then I didn’t like Cambodia so they suggested that I overstay one day. I said that I was concerned that Aran might have different rules because immigration was decentralized and could they give me a note instructing Aran immigration to let me in. They said they couldn’t because it was a different chain of command. They only have authority in BKK. Aran was in central command. The airport was also a different command (I believe there are 6 different commands in total). I had already known this so I asked if they thought I would have any problem getting in. They said no. They told me that 3 or 4 other people had already complained about this. I asked them how things would be 6 months from now; they said they weren’t sure.

April 3rd comes along and I take the trip to Aran. I decide not to overstay since I know that sometimes there is a problem with this. Manage to find the casino bus by Lumpini to take me straight to the border. It was a little confusing because I haven’t left Thailand by a land route in 3 or 4 years. When I get there, I go up to an officer who is free and ask him about my situation, being very polite. I ask if I can return on the same day. He says no problem as long as I have a forward air ticket out of Thailand. It’s a new rule. LMAO! I was shocked, but not terribly. TIT! I then went to talk to the supervisor. There were two other westerners there with the same problem. They were speaking to him in English. I spoke to him in Thai. I showed him my passport and told him that both Suan Phlu and the airport told me to come and renew my stamp at Aran. I showed him my stamps which clearly show that I’m not a visa runner, didn’t work here and was just a frequent visitor. I told him I followed all the rules. He said that this was a new rule-ANOTHER UNANNOUNCED NEW RULE! He was sympathetic and said that the government didn’t want people crossing back and forth at the land crossing and that I should go to the airport. This was funny. I would have laughed if I weren’t truly disgusted. I now was forced to overstay by immigration. I told him I didn’t want to do this. He kind of gave me a sad look. I turned straight back to BKK. I talked to a Thai sitting next to me on the bus. I was so upset I told him how the new government doesn’t like foreigners anymore. He was surprised as have all other Thais I’ve mentioned this to have been. Most Thais don’t even realize this is happening.

The next day after I got back to BKK, I booked a flight to Singapore on Tiger Air. I also called my travel agent. I told her about how I was turned back at Aran and asked her to find out the new rules. When she got back to me she told me that the people at immigration weren’t sure and that the rules were changing rapidly. They didn’t know how things would be in the future; she asked them to stop doing this as it was losing her business many customers. What a disgrace to run a country this way. I guess the head of immigration is behaving autocratically now that the CNS is in power and changing the rules on his own whims.

When I got to the airport on the 6th, I had to pay a 3 day fine. While paying the fine, I discussed my case with the officers there. An older officer with some rank came to discuss things with me. I talked to him for about 20 minutes. Again the officers were very sympathetic. I told him the rules were not fair now. He agreed. As all the officers I had already talked to before had said, he had told me these new rules were a headache for them. He complained that the manual counting of days on a rolling basis at the airport without a proper computer program was a problem. We agreed that it wasn’t an intelligent policy. He said that the person who is making the rules now has never had to take care of an immigration office and deal with people coming and going from the kingdom. He had to send an evaluation report every month to his superiors and every time he complained about the new rules. He also talked about the uneven enforcement of the rules. He asked me whether the days on a tourist visa and the 30 day visa exempt days be counted together. I said no. He said that some officers do and some don’t depending on where you are. I know that the immigration policy is to be decentralized and allow officer discretion, but THIS IS LUDICROUS. TIT.

When I came back on the 9th, I had a copy of my reservation at the end of the month, but was not asked for it. I told the officer I was starting my second period of 6 months and showed her the relevant stamps. She very quickly gave me a new set of 30 days without asking to see a forwarding ticket so this rule is not being enforced at the airport. I’m now back in Thailand.

Many people on this board always say that the rules are the rules, and the only people who will have problems here are the bad ones. This is rubbish. I followed the rules and still was forced to leave. They just change the rules like we change our shirts. Right now they are changing the rules at the drop of a hat. Maybe they are posting them on the Thai Immigration website or maybe you need to call the different posts or commands to find them out, but immigration is making no effort to make them freely available on this website or in any papers. The officers themselves are not sure what is happening and in many cases disagree with them, but have to follow them. It seems clear that this is done on purpose by the person in charge to make foreigners so frustrated that they leave, or that the person in charge is a petty dictator or incompetent and does things by the seat of his pants.

I see some posters saying that the new rules must be done logically and that the people with problems are ones who are up to now good. However, with a cursory look at my passport, it is easy to see that this is not the case. Yet, the officers don’t have the discretion to make an exception. Thus, the logic appears to be that the person in charge wants foreigners here out. Maybe you are here on a non-immigrant, retirement or work visa, and your rules will be changed without notice and you will be screwed or have to jump through hoops to stay as well. I think things here will get worse before they get better. Periodically in Thai history they have accepted foreigners and then expelled them. It appears that we are at a stage when some diehard anti-foreigners are in charge now, and attempting this.

In the past, being polite and neat in presentation when dealing with immigration would help one. The officers could use their discretion and decide who to be tough with and who to treat well. Although all the officers were polite and sympathetic to my case, they had nothing they could do even though they agreed with me (or at least said they did). This approach seems to no longer work.

This whole experience was very frustrating. I hope that sometime in the near future there will be some consistency and coherence in the immigration rules. Unfortunately, I think that things will only get worse.

[jeebusjones]

what a load of malarky. everyone knows the RULES ARE THE RULES. you just werent following them. if you had been following the rules none of these fabricated tales from the dark side would of happened. i mysef as so many many other law abiding thai visa citizens have no troubles at all in this the land of smiles. this the land where no one every grows old and people are never cold.

YOU CAN'T DO WRONG DOING RIGHT!!!! maybe that should be tattoed on somewhere for you to see. if you read any of the posters here youll see so many of us never ever get ourselves into trouble cause we always follow the rules. are kind and gentle and always the warmest smile on our faces. the milk of human kindness is what i have on offer. looks like this vermin was D.O.A. so many times at church ive made a pray to god. "oh god please protect me from the inflideles. next sunday at church ill ask god if he will forgive you you sinner for your sins and grant you a coverted 1 month visa. can you say RULES ARE THE RULES? come on you can do it.

What a freak.

[icecubes]

name='jii' date='2007-04-18 21:25:36' post='1258704']what a load of malarky. everyone knows the RULES ARE THE RULES. you just werent following them. if you had been following the rules none of these fabricated tales from the dark side would of happened. i mysef as so many many other law abiding thai visa citizens have no troubles at all in this the land of smiles. this the land where no one every grows old and people are never cold.

YOU CAN'T DO WRONG DOING RIGHT!!!! maybe that should be tattoed on somewhere for you to see. if you read any of the posters here youll see so many of us never ever get ourselves into trouble cause we always follow the rules. are kind and gentle and always the warmest smile on our faces. the milk of human kindness is what i have on offer. looks like this vermin was D.O.A. so many times at church ive made a pray to god. "oh god please protect me from the inflideles. next sunday at church ill ask god if he will forgive you you sinner for your sins and grant you a coverted 1 month visa. can you say RULES ARE THE RULES? come on you can do it.

Your the top 1 prize winner.

<deleted> of the month.

Flame from me to you.

[vermin on arrival]

Jii was being facetious. I know him. He was playing around and having a little joke.

[PenangGuy]

Just like to add some observations about the Aranyaprathet border situation today. I'm no expert on visa runs I should point out. I went over there this morning to get the tourist visa on arrival, after completing 6 months - (90 days TVOA + 90 days proper tourist visa). Oops.

At the immigration departure desk I showed my passport and a ticket out of Thailand, but it was for the start of June, the girl told me that I needed it 'confirmed'. OK. I went and confirmed it by telephone. Came back and said it was confirmed but she told me I was lying (literally she said 'You are a liar!'), that it wasn't confirmed, but then changed her tune and she had made a mistake, I needed the date changed to within one month. I asked her why and she told me I needed a paid, confirmed ticket out of Thailand within one month. Fine... I asked her if bus ticket would do. No. Train? No. Boat? No. Must be an Aeroplane. She was shouting at me, but I tried to keep calm, smile and didn't take it personally, since she had shouted at all 3 people in front of me as well. As I walked away she shouted across the room 'WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS!'... mmm ... I guess I was just born bad ....

So I went and changed it, and requested an email. The travel agent was peeved and said now not even the train tickets were allowed whereas a few days ago they had worked. The airline thought I was pulling some kind of scam, and requested I transferred the money immediately. While I was in the travel agent, 3 people bought tickets to Penang (2 said they would not use them, another one said maybe) for the same reason, one guy bought one to singapore, and another irate american got his airline to resend an email confirmation of his ticket which he had left in bkk. While waiting I went to a cafe to get away from the chaos. A French gentleman with a Thai wife approached me and asked me about my situation. He said he had lived in Thailand for 8 years on marriage visas. He had a house and children here. He had been given 3 months to leave Thailand or find one million baht to put in a thai bank account. He was chain smoking, his table was cluttered with empty beer cans. His wife looked worn out from worry. As I left I said good luck but it didn't seem to register.

Eventually I had it all sorted out it seemed, brought it all back to the desk and she told me I had faked the email. I showed her the receipt for the change fee and she told me that it was irrelevant. I asked to see her superior officer and he surprisingly OK'ed it and I went through. I asked her if she was tired and she actually smiled and said yes, she had had a 3 week long headache because of 'many people with problem'!

The Cambodian side was a breeze. But coming back I saw bunches of farangs in the Thai arrival side, some looking totally glum, some staring into space, some with heads in hands, some waving their arms around. One group said they had gone to Cambodia for one month and were coming back, but their tickets to leave Thailand were dated a couple of days too late. They had left Cambodian immigration, and could not get back into Thailand. They had no idea about the changes. It was 5.45 and they didn't see how they could get a visa to get back into Cambodia, Airline ticket departments were closed and anyway there was little chance of getting any confirmation documents. Poor souls. I had a terrible vision of them being eaten alive by a horde of skinny Cambodian border kids.

Anyway, for me it was no problem, although the lady scrutinised my ticket and the email for a long time. How glad I was to be on that bus home and out of that chaos. I'm sure my airline will think it strange when I change back my ticket to the original date tomorrow.

Amazing Thailand!

[jii]

Jii was being facetious. I know him. He was playing around and having a little joke.

//edit language/flame - lopburi3//

[sriracha john]

rip there heads off and shove it down there throats.

That's an interesting new tactic to take with various Immigration officials that I've not heard of before.

It's quite a different maneuver from the typical "dress neatly", "speak politely", "never raise your voice" mantra.

Could you please tell us more about these remarkable and successful new methods you suggest we utilize?

[Krub]

your post highlights the atmosphere in getting a 1 month visa now. i know i was in aran just a few days ago. dealing with them is like doing business with the devil. if anybody wants to argue COME FKING FORWARD RIGHT NOW. WHERE ARE THE THAI VISA MEMEBERS THAT HAVE CONSTANTLY LAUGHED AT OTHERS CAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE BIG MONEY OR THOUGHT THAT IF YOU JUST FOLLOW THE RULES YOU WILL NEVER GET INTO TROUBLES. I AM VERY ANGRY AT ANY IN THE PAST THAT HAS FALLEN INTO ONE OF THOSE CATOGORIES. I GOT A GOOD DAM MIND DO A SEARCH AND COMPLY A LIST OF ALL THE THAI VISA MEMBERS THAT WERE SO VERY WRONG ABOUT THAILAND.

i really think one of the visa runs some immigration may actually deny me from coming. go ahead make my day and face the BLOWBACK that will ensure. the situation really is that bad. the moment you arrive back in thailand youll have thai immigration accusing you of everything under the sun screaming at you. this is war peaceful methods just dont work. if you every get in this situation (more than likely will happen) scream back as loud as you can and embarrse them. i did and they ran away. i got my visa. its time to be strong not a coward. rip there heads off and shove it down there throats. i really resent the fact the way the treatment that you get that you are definetly a bad person definetly with bad intentions. never ever ever have i seen the kind of treatment from any immigration in any country (and ive been in almost every single asian country that is no exaggeration) like i have in both the malaysian land border and the aran border. the malaysian land border about 2 years ago all non thais were taking off the bus and marched into the immigration office like we were all criminals. i guess the southern viiolence had brought on this one.

how outrageous now its learned that you plane ticket has to be within 1 month. how the fuuck can they force to you to dictate that. this whole situation is way way out of control.

this whole rules are the rules i am really convinced they dont at all just want you to follow but is solely done as a total excuse to rid vermin foreigners out of the country. if that was not the case then why on earth would they go out of there way to delibertaely ###### up good westerners with good intentions not just saying to them. look we changed the rules you need a plane ticket out of here. ok this time all let it pass as you are not a mind reader. but next time youd better have one. now that would be the thng to do if they really wanted you to follow the rules.

Just like to add some observations about the Aranyaprathet border situation today. I'm no expert on visa runs I should point out. I went over there this morning to get the tourist visa on arrival, after completing 6 months - (90 days TVOA + 90 days proper tourist visa). Oops.

At the immigration departure desk I showed my passport and a ticket out of Thailand, but it was for the start of June, the girl told me that I needed it 'confirmed'. OK. I went and confirmed it by telephone. Came back and said it was confirmed but she told me I was lying (literally she said 'You are a liar!'), that it wasn't confirmed, but then changed her tune and she had made a mistake, I needed the date changed to within one month. I asked her why and she told me I needed a paid, confirmed ticket out of Thailand within one month. Fine... I asked her if bus ticket would do. No. Train? No. Boat? No. Must be an Aeroplane. She was shouting at me, but I tried to keep calm, smile and didn't take it personally, since she had shouted at all 3 people in front of me as well. As I walked away she shouted across the room 'WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS!'... mmm ... I guess I was just born bad ....

So I went and changed it, and requested an email. The travel agent was peeved and said now not even the train tickets were allowed whereas a few days ago they had worked. The airline thought I was pulling some kind of scam, and requested I transferred the money immediately. While I was in the travel agent, 3 people bought tickets to Penang (2 said they would not use them, another one said maybe) for the same reason, one guy bought one to singapore, and another irate american got his airline to resend an email confirmation of his ticket which he had left in bkk. While waiting I went to a cafe to get away from the chaos. A French gentleman with a Thai wife approached me and asked me about my situation. He said he had lived in Thailand for 8 years on marriage visas. He had a house and children here. He had been given 3 months to leave Thailand or find one million baht to put in a thai bank account. He was chain smoking, his table was cluttered with empty beer cans. His wife looked worn out from worry. As I left I said good luck but it didn't seem to register.

Eventually I had it all sorted out it seemed, brought it all back to the desk and she told me I had faked the email. I showed her the receipt for the change fee and she told me that it was irrelevant. I asked to see her superior officer and he surprisingly OK'ed it and I went through. I asked her if she was tired and she actually smiled and said yes, she had had a 3 week long headache because of 'many people with problem'!

The Cambodian side was a breeze. But coming back I saw bunches of farangs in the Thai arrival side, some looking totally glum, some staring into space, some with heads in hands, some waving their arms around. One group said they had gone to Cambodia for one month and were coming back, but their tickets to leave Thailand were dated a couple of days too late. They had left Cambodian immigration, and could not get back into Thailand. They had no idea about the changes. It was 5.45 and they didn't see how they could get a visa to get back into Cambodia, Airline ticket departments were closed and anyway there was little chance of getting any confirmation documents. Poor souls. I had a terrible vision of them being eaten alive by a horde of skinny Cambodian border kids.

Anyway, for me it was no problem, although the lady scrutinised my ticket and the email for a long time. How glad I was to be on that bus home and out of that chaos. I'm sure my airline will think it strange when I change back my ticket to the original date tomorrow.

Amazing Thailand!

This rule has always been on the books but not enforced.

The problem is not with the rules. The problems are twofolds

1. The ever bright guys who try and find and use all the loopholes possible to go around the rules

2. The immigration officers not applying the same rules the same way evrywhere

[jii]

i know what you saying the assumed dress neatly speak polietly. that is also a tatic to employ in certain situations. BUT if anyone did not realize its gone way way beyond that now. there is zero fairness. zero discrtion. they have a mandate to rid the country of every single non thai. get this when i left thailand while i talked the boss for about 15 minutes peacefully i did observe that 6 people including 3 westerners, 2 japanese and 1 taiwanese all did not stamp out as all were told if they do they will not be allowed back into thailand. so there you go there are not being kind to anyone. oh and what did the lot do but be the polite guests and were quiet. THEY FAILED. i take being quiet as a form of corwardness.

the only way to get your visa is to put them in a position of blowback. if you dont understand the word do a search on it.

i think the best tactics are at first be pleseant and see what happens. but as its been seen its 100 percent enforcement of the rules in there heads. so when after i was talking totally nice and all in thai. to my surprise he just went physco on my and slammed my passport down telling me to get the f out of thailand. that is when i starting screaming at him as loud as i could. and told him what i had mind for them. and i really did mean everything i said. eveyrthing said was 100% legal everyone situation is a little different youll have to make things as akward as possible for them.

oh and the other guy that just posted I CAN DEFINETLY TELL YOU ITS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU SAY. its just a matter of rules being enforced that were always on the book. they are twisting the rules around and just saying anything to get rid of you. oh get this even amongst different immigrations at the very same aran they have told me very different numbers of days i was to get on my visa. even amongst the bosses there they are interpreting it very differently. i know cause i asked the same question before hand to different bosses and got very different answers.

to sum it up DONT SWEAR. DONT GO TO FAR ON THE INSULTS ABOUT THAILAND. BUT RAISE YOU VOICE. MAKE A SCENE. AND KEEP HAMMERING AWAY. THE THAIS ARE COWARDS THEY WHILE AT FIRST COME ON WITH THIS TOUGH GUY STANCE BUT AFTER AWHILE THEY WILL CRUMBLE. I KNOW IT. I WATCHED IT ON 3 DFFERENT OCCASIONS UP THERE. AND WHEN I SAY CRUMBLE BOY DID THEY EVERY CRUMBLE.

well i cant say for sure this will work for you and you cant hold me accountable if you try and have a bad outcome. im not with you to coach you. i have 15 years of experience here i can read the thais like reading a book. so try this at your own risk. one thing too im tall. perhaps that also helped to intimate them as everyone knows thais just hate people taller than them.

good luck. i really do have sympathy for anyone thats been up there and been treated like a crminal. you know the saying the best form of defense is offense.

rip there heads off and shove it down there throats.

That's an interesting new tactic to take with various Immigration officials that I've not heard of before.

It's quite a different maneuver from the typical "dress neatly", "speak politely", "never raise your voice" mantra.

Could you please tell us more about these remarkable and successful new methods you suggest we utilize?

[jeebusjones]

one thing too im tall. perhaps that also helped to intimate them as everyone knows thais just hate people taller than them.

Another gem from this bubbling fountain of wisdom.

[StateSix]

i know what you saying the assumed dress neatly speak polietly. that is also a tatic to employ in certain situations. BUT if anyone did not realize its gone way way beyond that now. there is zero fairness. zero discrtion. they have a mandate to rid the country of every single non thai. get this when i left thailand while i talked the boss for about 15 minutes peacefully i did observe that 6 people including 3 westerners, 2 japanese and 1 taiwanese all did not stamp out as all were told if they do they will not be allowed back into thailand. so there you go there are not being kind to anyone. oh and what did the lot do but be the polite guests and were quiet. THEY FAILED. i take being quiet as a form of corwardness.

the only way to get your visa is to put them in a position of blowback. if you dont understand the word do a search on it.

i think the best tactics are at first be pleseant and see what happens. but as its been seen its 100 percent enforcement of the rules in there heads. so when after i was talking totally nice and all in thai. to my surprise he just went physco on my and slammed my passport down telling me to get the f out of thailand. that is when i starting screaming at him as loud as i could. and told him what i had mind for them. and i really did mean everything i said. eveyrthing said was 100% legal everyone situation is a little different youll have to make things as akward as possible for them.

oh and the other guy that just posted I CAN DEFINETLY TELL YOU ITS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU SAY. its just a matter of rules being enforced that were always on the book. they are twisting the rules around and just saying anything to get rid of you. oh get this even amongst different immigrations at the very same aran they have told me very different numbers of days i was to get on my visa. even amongst the bosses there they are interpreting it very differently. i know cause i asked the same question before hand to different bosses and got very different answers.

to sum it up DONT SWEAR. DONT GO TO FAR ON THE INSULTS ABOUT THAILAND. BUT RAISE YOU VOICE. MAKE A SCENE. AND KEEP HAMMERING AWAY. THE THAIS ARE COWARDS THEY WHILE AT FIRST COME ON WITH THIS TOUGH GUY STANCE BUT AFTER AWHILE THEY WILL CRUMBLE. I KNOW IT. I WATCHED IT ON 3 DFFERENT OCCASIONS UP THERE. AND WHEN I SAY CRUMBLE BOY DID THEY EVERY CRUMBLE.

well i cant say for sure this will work for you and you cant hold me accountable if you try and have a bad outcome. im not with you to coach you. i have 15 years of experience here i can read the thais like reading a book. so try this at your own risk. one thing too im tall. perhaps that also helped to intimate them as everyone knows thais just hate people taller than them.

good luck. i really do have sympathy for anyone thats been up there and been treated like a crminal. you know the saying the best form of defense is offense.

rip there heads off and shove it down there throats.

That's an interesting new tactic to take with various Immigration officials that I've not heard of before.

It's quite a different maneuver from the typical "dress neatly", "speak politely", "never raise your voice" mantra.

Could you please tell us more about these remarkable and successful new methods you suggest we utilize?

If immigration advised the people not to leave Thailand as they would not be stamped back in then surely they were being kind. I assume they advised them to get a 7 day extension at Suan Plu that day, and then arrange to get a Tourist Visa from a consulate. Much better than letting them leave the country, then being stuck in Cambodia.

However it is possible that I completely misunderstood your inane ramblings

BTW a little tip. Capital letters are best used at the start of sentences, not for whole sentences

[tijnebijn]

I understand that some people have there problems in the areas around Cambodia would say for now just skip the place.It is allready a long time that the embassy(thai)in Cambodia does not give tourist visas anymore.With all the visa runners and I think to Poipet are by far the most in Thailand,they want to get rid of them,i think not in particular the tourists whatsoever,but the visa runs to poipet.They clearly want to get rid of the workload.

So for now just try to get tourist visas back to back.The only thing I worry about is that they(the consulates)might get overworked as well and make a new ruling as well,one time no more,will not surprise me.What will happen is that many and many 'tourists' home or find a place elsewhere,exactly what they want probably for what ever reason(nationalism right now).Eventually they want every tourist back cause the miss the money.What they need to do is make the rules clearer and not abrupt changes,people react on that ,and not crazy.The guy one poster met to have 1 million on a bank probably stayed on a retirement visa(800k plus),but does not mean he cannot stay,he should look for other ways like nonO.I think people are overreacting and it is not that we cannot stay,just do what they ak for,if cannot,yeah it was too easy in the past anyway,very convenience it was,now we have to do how they say and show what they ask.There are many reasons for that,one particular incident I remember when a very famous dutch criminal named John Mieremet was killed in Phuket,which in the media I never heard from ever since,why?Cause they founded out that a lot of mafia types are making 'normal business here'but in fact are the most far scum you can get in the west!these kind of people also took these loopholes,and after this happening,and sure many more,I think they decided to stop the visa run ,so they scrutinise everyone!

Bad for us ,the normal Asia crazy tourists or long stayers with families do not think they want us too leave,It cannot be,but my former writing will bring a light!