question about Non-O extension update

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

So referring to long stay non imm o visa holders in your post, this means those on multi entry non imm o visas who leave the country every 90 days and whose permission to stay ends after march 26th are NOT included in the Amnesty as they can go to immigration to apply for a 1 year extension or 60 day extension? This means they will be overstay after their permission to stay ends if they do not extend at immigration? This is how I read your post. Excuse me if I'm wrong.

When you are on a 1-year Multi-Entry Non Imm O Visa you are only provided (short-stay) 90 days permissions to stay on entering Thailand, after which you are expected to leave the country again.  So those on that Visa type are eligible for the Amnesty (since they are not able to leave the country).

 

[johnny1966]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When you are on a 1-year Multi-Entry Non Imm O Visa you are only provided (short-stay) 90 days permissions to stay on entering Thailand, after which you are expected to leave the country again.  So those on that Visa type are eligible for the Amnesty (since they are not able to leave the country).

 

Thanks Peter. This is even though those holders have the option of extending 60 days or 1 year and can use this option under the current environment? Amnesty still covers such holders correct?

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Peter, with respect I'm puzzled by your constant term of 'long stay Non O'.

I assume your referring to the ME type, which is valid for one year.

Each entry though is valid for 90 days.

 

The Ministerial specifically includes this Visa type, not by it's validity, but by the permission of stay granted by entry of a Non O. An automatic extension is applied to 90 day entries (PhorPhor 90) in the Ministerial order.

 

Yes, they could apply for an annual extension as an option, provided they can meet the financial requirements.

Hi Tanoshi - I know that we are exactly on the same page, so my apologies for any confusion created by inaccurate wording from my part.

I am not referring to the 90-day Single Entry Non Immigrant O Visa or the 1-year Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa.  Both of these Visa ONLY provide you with a 90-day permission to stay after which you are expected to leave the country.  So both of these Visa types are eligible for the Amnesty.

The Visa types that are NOT eligible for the Amnesty are those that do NOT require you to leave the country, but are meant to be extended while in country, i.e if you are staying in Thailand on a 1-year extension of a Non Imm O or O-A Visa.  The reason they are not eligible for extension is that such Visa do not expect/require you to leave Thailand at the end of the permission to stay, but rather to prolonge your long-stay by once again applying for the 1-year extension of stay.

 

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

Thanks Peter. This is even though those holders have the option of extending 60 days or 1 year and can use this option under the current environment? Amnesty still covers such holders correct?

Yes, that's correct.

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

Thanks Peter. This is even though those holders have the option of extending 60 days or 1 year and can use this option under the current environment? Amnesty still covers such holders correct?

Yes, the option to apply for a 60 day extension (provided you've not already done so) should still be possible under the normal criteria once the amnesty ceases. 

Just keep an eye on your Visa expiry date.

[johnny1966]

49 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, that's correct.

Thank you Peter. I suppose many readers main concern is that at the end of the Amnesty period an io whether it be at a border crossing or immigration office says " you should have gone to immigration to extend 60 days before your permission to stay expired, you had that opportunity but you didn't go" and proceeds to slap an ugly overstay fine. There seems to be an uncertainty among immigration offices (and I would imagine border posts when they reopen), as to the above. This uncertainty is of course reported by posters on this and other forums, not directly from the horses mouth.

[JimGant]

Here's a hypothetical:

 

Say you never read TV, so you are not overflowing with nuggets of wisdom. Instead, you're on the US Embassy's notification list, and their last missive about the amnesty had this (my brackets):

Quote

 ....If you have a valid visa [permission of stay], you do not need to visit an immigration office in order to benefit from the automatic visa [permision of stay] extension.

This refers to the amnesty that currently ends April 30th, but that will most likely be extended -- let's say until July 31st.

 

And you're here on a one year retirement extension of stay that expired April 5th. Thus, with the info from the Embassy, you feel safe from overstay until things return to normal and you finally have to go to Immigration for renewal. In this hypothetical, this would be somewhere in the July 31st area.

 

Question: What can you expect when you show up at Immigration with an extension that expired April 5? Certainly there are examples of folks who have been a few days, or even weeks late with one year extension renewal. Would those examples play out here?

[Peter Denis]

27 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

Thank you Peter. I suppose many readers main concern is that at the end of the Amnesty period an io whether it be at a border crossing or immigration office says " you should have gone to immigration to extend 60 days before your permission to stay expired, you had that opportunity but you didn't go" and proceeds to slap an ugly overstay fine. There seems to be an uncertainty among immigration offices (and I would imagine border posts when they reopen), as to the above. This uncertainty is of course reported by posters on this and other forums, not directly from the horses mouth.

Hi Johnny,

Indeed that's a legitimate concern.

If the interpretation by border-immigration or your local IO is different than the intended meaning of the ambiguously formulated amnesty announcement, you can find yourself in trouble.

It seems to be the perpetual dilemma when staying longer term in Thailand to first decypher what the rules/regulations actually mean, and then to hope the immigration officer that crosses your way interprets it in the same way.

Also note that if you do go to your local IO for an extension of stay and they say 'no need' to do so, that border-immigration might still interpret it differently (claiming that your particular Visa-situation was not eligible for the amnesty in spite of what your local IO told you) and slam you with an overstay fine.

For VisaExempt and Tourist Visa entries there can be no doubt > they are eligible for the amnesty.  But those on 90-day permissions of stay from a Non Imm O Visa are somewhat in the twilight zone, even though they are also eligible for the amnesty.

   

[johnny1966]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Johnny,

Indeed that's a legitimate concern.

If the interpretation by border-immigration or your local IO is different than the intended meaning of the ambiguously formulated amnesty announcement, you can find yourself in trouble.

It seems to be the perpetual dilemma when staying longer term in Thailand to first decypher what the rules/regulations actually mean, and then to hope the immigration officer that crosses your way interprets it in the same way.

Also note that if you do go to your local IO for an extension of stay and they say 'no need' to do so, that border-immigration might still interpret it differently (claiming that your particular Visa-situation was not eligible for the amnesty in spite of what your local IO told you) and slam you with an overstay fine.

For VisaExempt and Tourist Visa entries there can be no doubt > they are eligible for the amnesty.  But those on 90-day permissions of stay from a Non Imm O Visa are somewhat in the twilight zone, even though they are also eligible for the amnesty.

   

Precisely. Thus the dilemma as to whether or not do the 60 day extension prior to expiry of permission to stay. No-one I believe can categorically answer the above. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by johnny1966

[JackThompson]

58 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

Precisely. Thus the dilemma as to whether or not do the 60 day extension prior to expiry of permission to stay. No-one I believe can categorically answer the above. 

"Categorically" does not exist here - they make it up as they go along.  But there should be no direct-association with having an entry from a "Non-O Visa," and "needing" to do a 60-day vs not - because that extension is available to anyone who has Thai Family - married or a child - even if they are in the country on an entry from visa-exempt, tourist-visa, non-b, long-term extension, etc.  As well, some Non-O Visa-entries ("visas" from a consulate abroad) are for "retirment" - including those w/o Thai family, who cannot apply for the 60-day extension.  Therefore, I do not see the direct relationship to having a "Non-O Visa entry for 90-days" and "should have used a 60-day extension."  Of course, anything is possible here.

Edited April 12, 2020 by JackThompson

[sateuk]

I have a non o visa already extended by 60 days at immigration which runs out on 18th april as borders are shut im covered till the 30th as already used up my 60 day extension, I think if you on a non o via marriage like me and you haven't extended yet by 60 days at your local immigration office you are not covered by the amnesty but if like me you have done that already you are covered as there is no other options to extend as uk embassy no longer issuing letters as not needed thats my take on it anyway

[Peter Denis]

9 minutes ago, sateuk said:

...

I think if you on a non o via marriage like me and you haven't extended yet by 60 days at your local immigration office you are not covered by the amnesty

...

If you entered Thailand on a Non O marriage Visa and got a 90 day permission to stay stamp,

you meet the 1st criterium for being eligible for the automatic extension.

The 2nd criterium is that your present permission to stay (irrespective whether it was based on your initial entry or a later extension) did or will expire after 26 March.

If you meet both criteria then you are eligible for the automatic extension till 30 April.

Note: An 'under consideration' stamp is not a permission to stay, so if you are in that case you need to visit IO on the report-back day to receive the permission to stamp in your passport (and you will then be eligible for the automatic extension).

 

 

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, sateuk said:

I have a non o visa already extended by 60 days at immigration which runs out on 18th april as borders are shut im covered till the 30th as already used up my 60 day extension, I think if you on a non o via marriage like me and you haven't extended yet by 60 days at your local immigration office you are not covered by the amnesty but if like me you have done that already you are covered as there is no other options to extend as uk embassy no longer issuing letters as not needed thats my take on it anyway

The 60 day extension is not mandatory. Same for those on visa exempt and tourist visa entries.

The intent of the order was to keep people from needing to go to a immigration office for short stay (less than 90 days) extensions.

[rumak]

On 4/11/2020 at 2:16 PM, Peter Denis said:

Thanks!

That the 'amnesty announcement' does not mention that it is NOT applicable

- for those on an 'under consideration' extension of stay;

- for O and O-A Visa holders on extension of stay

is a grave omission, and might create serious trouble for those that read the announcement at face value and believed it applied to their situation.

I am on a retirement visa (extension) ......   coming up end of May.   I will go to IO  with intention

of extending it.  Hopefully it can be done,  but if not I only lose some time and effort.

Better than losing my status,  that's for sure

[jvs]

I opened a topic on this last week or so but i did not get many responses.

Dutch citizen on retirement extension due April 29th.

Usually i do the combination method(money in the bank plus letter from the embassy)

Contacted the embassy and they are closed until the 29th.

Not enough time to do things and i am between a rock and a hard place.

Options ?

Ubonjoe,have you come across something similar?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, rumak said:

I am on a retirement visa (extension) ......   coming up end of May.   I will go to IO  with intention

of extending it.  Hopefully it can be done,  but if not I only lose some time and effort.

You have to apply for your extension. It is still required for one year extensions.

You will certainly will not be turned away when you go to immigration..

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, jvs said:

Not enough time to do things and i am between a rock and a hard place.

Options ?

Ubonjoe,have you come across something similar?

About your only option is to contact your embassy and make them understand your situation. Make them understand that without the letter you would be on an overstay.

There would be a option for a special 30 day extension but to get it would require a letter from the embassy.

 

[Tanoshi]

23 minutes ago, rumak said:

I am on a retirement visa (extension) ......   coming up end of May.   I will go to IO  with intention

of extending it.  Hopefully it can be done,  but if not I only lose some time and effort.

Better than losing my status,  that's for sure

Annual extension applications are still being processed in the normal manner at Immigration offices.

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

About your only option is to contact your embassy and make them understand your situation. Make them understand that without the letter you would be on an overstay.

There would be a option for a special 30 day extension but to get it would require a letter from the embassy.

 

The Consular section of the Netherlands Embassy is closed, nothing is being issued.

You are transferred to the Hauge who advise to contact the Embassy when they reopen again.

No assistance offered from the Hauge.

[johnny1966]

2 hours ago, sateuk said:

I have a non o visa already extended by 60 days at immigration which runs out on 18th april as borders are shut im covered till the 30th as already used up my 60 day extension, I think if you on a non o via marriage like me and you haven't extended yet by 60 days at your local immigration office you are not covered by the amnesty but if like me you have done that already you are covered as there is no other options to extend as uk embassy no longer issuing letters as not needed thats my take on it anyway

"Your take on it "is why there is confusion. Everyone has "their take on it" As ubonjoe stated, a 60 day extension is not mandatory and therefore those who have not done a 60 day extension are still covered. Non immigrant O multi entry holders who do 90 day border bounces are covered under the Amnesty. This is the take from two CW immigration officers this morning.

Edited April 13, 2020 by johnny1966

[rumak]

30 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Annual extension applications are still being processed in the normal manner at Immigration offices.

Thanks.   I did assume that , and just counting the days and hoping nothing changes before 

i can go get another year stamped in 

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

"Your take on it "is why there is confusion. Everyone has "their take on it" As ubonjoe stated, a 60 day extension is not mandatory and therefore those who have not done a 60 day extension are still covered. Non immigrant O multi entry holders who do 90 day border bounces are covered under the Amnesty. This is the take from two CW immigration officers this morning.

If your on a Non O ME and received permission of stay beyond 26th March, then you permission of stay is automatically extended until 30th April.

Towards the end of April there will be a further announcement, presumably extending this period to the end of May and so on until such time borders and Thai Embassies reopen, which could be in staggered stages.

[talahtnut]

My non O 90 day due to expire 13 April.

I applied for 60 day ext. but was allowed only

7 days, took my number and waited in office 10,

Lady examined papers and told me to get another

number and go to desk 1. she examined papers

and took me to the big boss again, but he was

adamant, only 7 days.  So I stump up 1900B making

it impossible  apply for another extension, and no

way out of Thailand.

All this the day before the amnesty announced.

I have a provisional Thai Air flight for June,

If they dont extend the amnesty for may, will I

have to pay an enormous overstay and fine, or

even a ban? 

PS. The UK embassy will not send me the Cv 19 letter after many requests.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by talahtnut
addition

[Tanoshi]

Your as per my post 76 above.

[Peter Denis]

32 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

My non O 90 day due to expire 13 April.

I applied for 60 day ext. but was allowed only

7 days, took my number and waited in office 10,

Lady examined papers and told me to get another

number and go to desk 1. she examined papers

and took me to the big boss again, but he was

adamant, only 7 days.  So I stump up 1900B making

it impossible  apply for another extension, and no

way out of Thailand.

All this the day before the amnesty announced.

I have a provisional Thai Air flight for June,

If they dont extend the amnesty for may, will I

have to pay an enormous overstay and fine, or

even a ban? 

PS. The UK embassy will not send me the Cv 19 letter after many requests.

 

So you entered Thailand on a valid Non O Visa and border-immigration stamped a 90-day permission to stay in your passport which expires today 13 April.

So on hindsight there was no need for you to visit IO, as your short-stay 90day permission to stay expires after 26 March, and so you were eligible for the automatic extension.

I presume that the 7-days IO provided to you, extended your permission to stay till after 13 April (otherwise what would be the point of extending).

But I have to admit it is not clear for me whether that - on hindsight - unnecessary 7-days extension impacts your situation now.

@Tanoshi > I presume you refer to your earlier post #82.

Logic and common sense would normally mean that the unnecessary 7-days extension would not impact his eligibility for the amnesty.

But TiT, so can you please assess (and if so confirm) whether that is indeed the case.

Thanks.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There would be a option for a special 30 day extension but to get it would require a letter from the embassy.

Yeah, but if you're British or Aussie you can't get such a letter anymore, as they interpreted the amnesty to obviate the need for such letters, since, in their opinion, ALL valid permissions of stay that expire on or after March 26, including the 365 day variety, come under the amnesty.

 

Maybe our Dutchman (jvs) in question can still get the covid 19 letter by email, dunno. If not, I guess he could show up at immigration April 29 and plead his case that he cannot get the required financial paperwork for extension from his embassy due to covid 19 closures. Hopefully the IO will say, "Geez, fellow, you're covered by the amnesty -- didn't your embassy give you the word? Go home and come back after the crisis." Or maybe, "Tough luck fella. Some cretin decided amnesty wasn't needed for long stay folks like you. So, you've got 7 days to pack and leave -- if you can find a border crossing. Otherwise, jail time for overstay. Sorry."

 

Come on. If the original amnesty overlooked such situations as the above, wouldn't you think the Thai gov't would correct that .....? (hahaha, rhetorical question, this is Thailand) Or maybe, as the embassies are interpreting, the amnesty *does* cover such situations...

Edited April 13, 2020 by JimGant

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

My non O 90 day due to expire 13 April.

I applied for 60 day ext. but was allowed only

7 days, took my number and waited in office 10,

Lady examined papers and told me to get another

number and go to desk 1. she examined papers

and took me to the big boss again, but he was

adamant, only 7 days. 

Are you married to or the parent of a Thai? If not you did not qualify for a 60 day extension.

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

I presume that the 7-days IO provided to you, extended your permission to stay till after 13 April (otherwise what would be the point of extending).

But I have to admit it is not clear for me whether that - on hindsight - unnecessary 7-days extension impacts your situation now.

If I had waited a day, I would not have bothered

to go to immigration, I will let you know how it

pans out.

Many thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Edited April 13, 2020 by talahtnut
addition

[talahtnut]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you married to or the parent of a Thai? If not you did not qualify for a 60 day extension.

Yes ubonjoe, I am married to a Thai, she went with

me to Imm. Office,  and we have a 19year old son.

Many thanks for your patience.

I've lost mine.

 

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Yes ubonjoe, I am married to a Thai, she went with me to Imm. Office,  and we have a 19 year old son.

Did they give you a reason for not doing the extension?