question about Non-O extension update

[lexlam]

my current non-o will expire the next week 14th April,

planning to apply for 60 days extention from immi office,

heard that Thai govt granted automatic extension for tourist visas,

does this extension conver the holder of non-o (family) member visa?

 

in case non-o visa covered by this automatic extension, later when go to apply for 60 days extenion,

will the immigration deduct / count the number of days given in the auto-extend? 

I'm planning the visit the immi office at chang wattana on monday to apply for 60 days, 

please inform if anyone with non-o confirmed about this extention update if non-o coverd or just for tourist visas?

Thanks, 

[ubonjoe]

The ministerial order is for all entries to the country with a visa.

My suggestion is to wait until emergency ends and then apply for a 60 day extension.

[Tounge Thaied]

https://immigration.go.th/content/visa_auto_extension?click=1

[lexlam]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The ministerial order is for all entries to the country with a visa.

My suggestion is to wait until emergency ends and then apply for a 60 day extension.

Thanks ubonjoe,

My question is that anyone with non-o visa went to the immi and confirmed about this update?

I won't bother to travel to the immi office this monday - 13th April, 

just away 45 km from my place, to check and confirm by myself, to avoid get involved in overstay and paying 500 a day, as you may know sometimes rumours could lead people to unecessary troubles,

Thanks again, appreciate if anyone with non-o got the update from immi office?

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, lexlam said:

My question is that anyone with non-o visa went to the immi and confirmed about this update?

Nothing yet since it just started yesterday.

No fines for a overstay now as stated in the order.

[lexlam]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Nothing yet since it just started yesterday.

No fines for a overstay now as stated in the order.

Thanks ubonjoe, will wait and see, 

[lexlam]

32 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

https://immigration.go.th/content/visa_auto_extension?click=1

Thanks, it seems official announcement, more relaible source of news,

appreciate your kind effort to share this, 

[madmen]

37 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The ministerial order is for all entries to the country with a visa.

My suggestion is to wait until emergency ends and then apply for a 60 day extension.

Can't seem To find info on retirement extensions of course is not a Visa. Mine expires in May and not renewing this year and have had 2 flights cancelled last few weeks, am I covered by the order should it be extended? What options do I have to extend short term?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, madmen said:

What options do I have to extend short term?

You will likely have to a apply for a special 30 day extension by getting a letter from your embassy.

Bad luck for your planning not to do the extension again. Yours is one of those worst case scenarios.

 

[madmen]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You will likely have to a apply for a special 30 day extension by getting a letter from your embassy.

Bad luck for your planning not to do the extension again. Yours is one of those worst case scenarios.

 

Yep if it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all

 

Eg from yesterday's oz embassy email

 

For many of you this will save a visit to your local Immigration office which I am sure you will welcome. Given this, the Australian Embassy will no longer be providing letters to support visa extensions for Thailand.

Edited April 10, 2020 by madmen

[sateuk]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Nothing yet since it just started yesterday.

No fines for a overstay now as stated in the order.

Ubonjoe ive got a non o visa I extended it by 60 days aready at immigration which runs out on 18th april obviously I cant border bounce so I got the covid letter from uk embassy . But now its automatically extended till 30th april do I have to go immigration with covid letter on 18th or not or just wait till 30th april thanks

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, sateuk said:

Ubonjoe ive got a non o visa I extended it by 60 days aready at immigration which runs out on 18th april obviously I cant border bounce so I got the covid letter from uk embassy . But now its automatically extended till 30th april do I have to go immigration with covid letter on 18th or not or just wait till 30th april thanks

No need to go to a immigration office until the emergency decree ends. The 30th is when the current one ends but it will certainly be extended.

[Peter Denis]

22 hours ago, madmen said:

Can't seem To find info on retirement extensions of course is not a Visa. Mine expires in May and not renewing this year and have had 2 flights cancelled last few weeks, am I covered by the order should it be extended? What options do I have to extend short term?

As I read and understand the amnesty announcement, EVERY foreigner whose permission to stay expires after 26 March does NOT need to report to IO till 30 April (the permission to stay is automatically prolonged to that date).  And as good as certain that 30 April date will be extended once again till a later date (until the situation normalizes).

So there should be no problem for you with your permission to stay expiring in May.

Before the end date of the amnesty the borders should be open again (no use stopping the amnesty when there are no options to leave the country), and that would allow you to do a border-run and apply abroad for a new Non Imm O Visa or do it in-country.

 

[Ties V]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The ministerial order is for all entries to the country with a visa.

My suggestion is to wait until emergency ends and then apply for a 60 day extension.

I also want to go monday for the 60 days extension. Isn't it better to go now instead of wait until 30 april and maybe very busy again and not sure they give me extension end of the month..?

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

As I read and understand the amnesty announcement, EVERY foreigner whose permission to stay expires after 26 March does NOT need to report to IO till 30 April (the permission to stay is automatically prolonged to that date).  And as good as certain that 30 April date will be extended once again till a later date (until the situation normalizes).

The way I read the ministerial order it does not apply to those on long term extensions of stay.

It is only for those that have entered the country and got an entry from a visa and extended them for a short stay.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The way I read the ministerial order it does not apply to those on long term extensions of stay.

It is only for those that have entered the country and got an entry from a visa and extended them for a short stay.

Not questioning your vast knowledge and keen judgement, but why would it not apply to those on long-term extensions of stay?

The scheme IO posted on their website to inform the public does not exclude those staying on long-term extensions.  If it is the intention to avoid that foreigners visit IO for an extension of stay, it would be strange to make an exception for long-stayers (and not mentioning that on the announcement).

Note: It would be easy to check though as there are several Non Imm O / O-A Visa holders already applying for their extension of stay.  And their applications are being handled, but they could simply ask the question at their IO whether it is indeed required for them to do their application now or whether the prolongation of the permission to stay also applies for them.

 

 

[TigerandDog]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Nothing yet since it just started yesterday.

No fines for a overstay now as stated in the order.

A friend on a Non Imm O single entry visa had the "Under Consideration" stamp in his passport, advising that he had to return yesterday ( Apr 10 ). When he arrived at CM Imm he was told there was no need for him to have come in. However, as he had driven 130+ kms each way he insisted on having a stamp in his passport stating that his extension was to 30th April. He eventually received the stamp and was advised that if he needed to extend again he would need another letter from his embassy. I don't believe that would be necessary should the state of emergency be extended beyond 30 April, as that would mean his visa would also be automatically extended.  The one thing that Immigration did not explain was that once the automatic extensions no longer apply, that foreigners with these extensions have 7 days after the expeiry date to leave the country, otherwise they wil be on overstay.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

If it is the intention to avoid that foreigners visit IO for an extension of stay, it would be strange to make an exception for long-stayers (and not mentioning that on the announcement).

The reason it was done is due to the high numbers of people needing to do extension due to the border closures that was causing overcrowding at immigration offices. 

The number of people needing to do their annual extensions of stay is not near as high as others.

I think you have to closely read this in the image on the immigration website. Note where it says visa category.

[sateuk]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No need to go to a immigration office until the emergency decree ends. The 30th is when the current one ends but it will certainly be extended.

Thanks very much 

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The reason it was done is due to the high numbers of people needing to do extension due to the border closures that was causing overcrowding at immigration offices. 

The number of people needing to do their annual extensions of stay is not near as high as others.

I think you have to closely read this in the image on the immigration website. Note where it says visa category.

Yes, and I do wonder why they found it necessary to mention 'according to visa category and visa exemption'.  Every permission to stay is issued according to visa category or visa exemption, so why mention that?

If you are here on long-stay your permission to stay is based on a Non-O Visa category.

So why should that category be excluded from the amnesty announcement that covers all permissions to stay expiring after March 26 (especially since they do not mention anywhere that it is excluded)?

> I am not pestering but genuinely try to understand this

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

If you are here on long-stay your permission to stay is based on a Non-O Visa category.

So why should that category be excluded from the amnesty announcement that covers all permissions to stay expiring after March 26 (especially since they do not mention anywhere that it is excluded)?

Best to say a non immigrant visa since that is what it states in the police order. They are actually granted for a particular reason and each one has it own requirements. Not the same as people entering with a visa to stay for certain number of days.

I can assure you that if my one year extension was due now I would not want to lose it by not going to immigration due to the way something was written on the immigration website.

I have read the ministerial order and the sections of the immigration act it refers and it is fairly clear to me that long term extensions are not included.

Edit: Also what this paragraph in it states.

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by ubonjoe

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

...

I have read the ministerial order and the sections of the immigration act it refers and it is fairly clear to me that long term extensions are not included.

Thanks!

That the 'amnesty announcement' does not mention that it is NOT applicable

- for those on an 'under consideration' extension of stay;

- for O and O-A Visa holders on extension of stay

is a grave omission, and might create serious trouble for those that read the announcement at face value and believed it applied to their situation.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

hat the 'amnesty announcement' does not mention that it is NOT applicable

I assume you read the paragraph of it I added in as an edit. That makes it even clearer.

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The way I read the ministerial order it does not apply to those on long term extensions of stay.

It is only for those that have entered the country and got an entry from a visa and extended them for a short stay.

Thanks Ujoe for your tireless monitoring/response to this topic. 

 

 Sadly, if you are correct then a lot of folks with extensions of stay expiring will be forced to overstay. 

It seems pointless not to include them in the automatic visa amnesty. 

If border bounces are not possible (to convert OA to O visa) that leaves overstay or worthless Thai insurance as the only options for NON OA extensions of stay. 

 

Pretty grim prospects. 

 

I can only hope for more clarification before my OA extension of stay expires in May. 

[RocketDog]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Best to say a non immigrant visa since that is what it states in the police order. They are actually granted for a particular reason and each one has it own requirements. Not the same as people entering with a visa to stay for certain number of days.

I can assure you that if my one year extension was due now I would not want to lose it by not going to immigration due to the way something was written on the immigration website.

I have read the ministerial order and the sections of the immigration act it refers and it is fairly clear to me that long term extensions are not included.

Edit: Also what this paragraph in it states.

 

 

 

So to clarify, the order clearly states that it applies to "certain groups of foreigners" , but not ALL groups. 

 

I see your point. Unless non immigrant visas/extensions of stay are not explicitly included, the implication is that they are excluded. 

Though this group may be smaller than the short stay groups it still begs the question of what options are left for the excluded groups.

 

Further guidance from Immigration would certainly be appreciated, and may yet be forthcoming.

 

We can only wait and sweat I guess.

 

This vagary of interpretation is my only real and constant headache with living in The Kingdom since I've learned to (mostly) avoid death/dismemberment on the roads! 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I see your point. Unless non immigrant visas/extensions of stay are not explicitly included, the implication is that they are excluded. 

It is not my point it is what is written in the ministerial order.

Those that entered the country using a non immigrant visa on or before the March 26th are included since they could not leave the country to get a new entry or apply for another visa. 

 

3 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Though this group may be smaller than the short stay groups it still begs the question of what options are left for the excluded groups.

Those that are here on an extension of stay can apply for a new extension of stay and do not need to leave the country to do it.

 

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Those that entered the country using a non immigrant visa on or before the March 26th are included since they could not leave the country to get a new entry or apply for another visa. 

To play devil's advocate, those who entered on a single entry Non O have the same ability to apply for a one-year extension as those on an existing one-year extension of stay that is shortly expiring. In both cases, they would have the alternative under normal circumstances of leaving the country rather than applying for an extension. Indeed, those who had planned to leave rather than applying for an extension (and thus do not meet the requirements) could be in a dicey situation to which there is no obvious solution. There is not a lot of sense in treating the two groups differently. However, I have learned not to look for logical reasoning in the regulations that are promulgated. This situation, if you are correct in your interpretation, is just as logical as distinguishing between Non O-A and Non O (retirement) applications for extension of stay in respect of insurance. It is what it is.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, BritTim said:

To play devil's advocate, those who entered on a single entry Non O have the same ability to apply for a one-year extension as those on an existing one-year extension of stay that is shortly expiring. In both cases, they would have the alternative under normal circumstances of leaving the country rather than applying for an extension.

If they could qualify for an extension that is correct. But they did not apply or have not applied for an extension they are covered under the order.

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Indeed, those who had planned to leave rather than applying for an extension (and thus do not meet the requirements) could be in a dicey situation to which there is no obvious solution.

As far as I know the special 30 day extension in their case could still be applied for if they do not qualify for the extension.

 

16 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is not a lot of sense in treating the two groups differently.

It does make sense since people on an extension were not affected by the emergency decree since they could still apply for a new one. 

 

[RocketDog]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If they could qualify for an extension that is correct. But they did not apply or have not applied for an extension they are covered under the order.

As far as I know the special 30 day extension in their case could still be applied for if they do not qualify for the extension.

 

It does make sense since people on an extension were not affected by the emergency decree since they could still apply for a new one. 

 

Agreed. But to reiterate my comment, for those seeking a new extension of stay on OA cannot leave the country to return and apply for an O visa. This leaves the worthless Thai insurance as their only option. I consider that viable but hardly appealing. 

 

Again, Immigration could have simply included all visa/extension types in the order thus allowing time for a return to normal travel and permitting us the legitimate options we had before entry/exits were disallowed. 

 

This seems so logically feasible that their inclusions/exclusions appear arbitrary and nonsensical. 

 

However I understand you only report the news, you don't make it. 

 

I think a certain amount of irate venting is inevitable. 

[DogNo1]

Thanks Joe for clarifying the status of us one-year extension holders.  I am disappointed since my extension expires on May 13th so I will have to go in to Chaeng Wattana before then to renew my extension, get my re-entry permit and sort out not receiving a reply to my mailed-in 90 day report which was due on March 17th.  That will involve many personal contacts and a lot of paper shuffling.  Due to my age and pre-existing conditions, I had hoped to avoid that.  I imagine that I will have to pay the 90-day report fine since I didn't go in to resolve it before March 17th.  It's too bad that all immigration requirements weren't suspended until the coronavirus crisis is resolved.