Thais Embark On Native Missile Programme: Jane's

[canuckamuck]

The new Thai missile prototype is on display.

Code named Dragonball

This radical new approach proves to be a major diversion from standard defense system development.

Important upgrades include:

-4 separate LCD screens

-500,000 watt audio with secret bass cannon technology

-Full karaoke integration, with a dazzling display of flashing lights and it does that hopping thing in rhythm to the music.

These missile can be linked together to share audio output, or they can work independently at close range.

Missiles are expected to be deployed in mall parking lots and will unexpectedly appear in quiet sois to test stealth attack protocol.

Future enhancements are all expected on increase the size and volume of muffler and exhaust output. This is the future.

[Ijustwannateach]

While it is true that Thailand probably stands no chance in becoming a serious player in the US-Russian side of the arms race, I think if they worked hard and concentrated on it they could be one of the first to respond with weapons tailored to work well with/against the weapons of other regional powers like China and India- Japan's too dependent on U.S. technology to do much development in this direction.

"S"

[PeaceBlondie]

For an engineering project to work, from idea to planning to production to practice, the engineers need to be left to act as professionals, not subject to the whim of Thai politics. As we saw in the Swamp-bunny Airport boondoggle, that's not likely to happen.

Will Power King get the duty-free concessions at the launch sites?

Does Thailand still have one of the only aircraft carriers in southeast Asia?

[jasreeve17]

For Thailand's use - ? A fight with who? Malaysia? Thailand would lose, or certainly could never win, and win what? It'd never happen.

Save money? It'd be much cheaper to keep existing ties with the US, or shift to China.

For export? To who? I cannot think of one realistic sales opportunity (well maybe selling three or four to their friends in Myanmar)

Why? Ego? Yes, all countries have an ego. My country; England has a big ego, so I accept that Thailand can / does too. Though ego's are a bad thing in every way...

Why? Graft. Yes.

So, to conclude, Thailand wants to make missiles so that she feels important and there are further opportunities for a select few to steal the nations wealth. - Very sad.

Effect; more poor farmers and a widening gap for the empowered elite. Oh, and no effect whatsoever on local, regional or World missile techology / balance. And, another government sector to run at a loss and suck in national funds.

Edited April 14, 2007 by jasreeve17

[Heng]

Nothing like the perks of a military run gov't.

If you read the original article, you will find that the program had been approved before the coup.

Generally speaking, T. Nothing like a trillion Baht budget with few checks or balances.

[qualtrough]

I first arrived here in Nov. 1980, and sometime between then and early December 1980 there was a big explosion in BKK or Nonthaburi of what I believe was a rocket or missile assembly plant. My memory tells me something like a dozen people were killed and a large area devastated, and the explosion was heard for a long distance. As it happens I chose to visit Pattaya that day and missed the excitement. Anybody else know about that and have any additional info or corrections to share? I do wish them better luck this time!

Edited April 14, 2007 by qualtrough

[nick2k]

although I think the world is going insane what with everybody beefing up their military, the reality is - you need to protect yourself. making their own missiles as a way to protect themselves makes sense.

all it takes is one missile to destroy an eu-30. for the cost of one eu-30 (50 million?), you could make a lot of small missiles - make that thousands, if not tens of thousands.

yeah. and you got to wonder why malaysia and indonesia are beefing up their defenses so much. could it be - they are thinking of helping out their "brothers" sometime in the near future?

[jasreeve17]

although I think the world is going insane what with everybody beefing up their military, the reality is - you need to protect yourself. making their own missiles as a way to protect themselves makes sense.

all it takes is one missile to destroy an eu-30. for the cost of one eu-30 (50 million?), you could make a lot of small missiles - make that thousands, if not tens of thousands.

yeah. and you got to wonder why malaysia and indonesia are beefing up their defenses so much. could it be - they are thinking of helping out their "brothers" sometime in the near future?

Relax Nick. I don't see any great fight on the horizen - Thailand V's the Muslim SE Asians.

The point is Thailand is not a great war nation (if that term is not an oxymoron). But, Thailand has good relations with the USA, Japan and China. These are the regional powerhouses and relationships should be cultivated with these partners instead of trying to become something that they can never be.

On the other hand, if the ruling army elite want to empower themselves and further manipulate Thai society for their personal fiancial benefit, then it's a good idea, for them and only them.

[cdnvic]

although I think the world is going insane what with everybody beefing up their military, the reality is - you need to protect yourself. making their own missiles as a way to protect themselves makes sense.

No, buying a proven system for a fraction of the cost, that will be delivered in a shorter amount of time makes sense. Wasting money on R&D for a system that can't compete with the technology and research that will be deployed in the newer Russian or US fighters that it would theoretically me matched against doesn't.

Russian anti-aircraft weaponry has not done well against US aircraft in the last two decades, and they are far ahead of the Thais in R&D. Better to buy an existing French, US, or Israeli system.

Spend the savings on something that Thailand really needs, like better flood control.

[jasreeve17]

Adding a thought on the back of CDNVIC's words:-

- Look at what the Malaysians / Singaporeans are buying, it's pretty upmarket stuff from the top manufacturers. Do the Thais actually think that their homemade systems could ever compete with these US and Soviet systems???

Of course not. It's a complete waste of money. Their arguments make no sense.

If they must spend money on missiles, then jump into bed with a hi-tech proven partner, at a fraction of the cost. You will also get a product that will function in the capacity that you require it too.

A simple scenario - if the Malaysians attack (ridiculous, I know) with their recent US planes, etc, will these Thai missiles be of any use? Errm no. If the Thais had spent a fraction of the cost on Soviet / US / Israeli / French... missiles then would they be of use? Errm yes.

[nick2k]

although I think the world is going insane what with everybody beefing up their military, the reality is - you need to protect yourself. making their own missiles as a way to protect themselves makes sense.

all it takes is one missile to destroy an eu-30. for the cost of one eu-30 (50 million?), you could make a lot of small missiles - make that thousands, if not tens of thousands.

yeah. and you got to wonder why malaysia and indonesia are beefing up their defenses so much. could it be - they are thinking of helping out their "brothers" sometime in the near future?

Relax Nick. I don't see any great fight on the horizen - Thailand V's the Muslim SE Asians.

The point is Thailand is not a great war nation (if that term is not an oxymoron). But, Thailand has good relations with the USA, Japan and China. These are the regional powerhouses and relationships should be cultivated with these partners instead of trying to become something that they can never be.

On the other hand, if the ruling army elite want to empower themselves and further manipulate Thai society for their personal fiancial benefit, then it's a good idea, for them and only them.

I don't think it is a good idea to have to rely on others for protection. you need to think for yourself too. yes, it would be good to develop your connections. but relying on others doesn't always work.

on the idea that no fight is on the horizon.. have you read about the things going on in malaysia? talk of people pushing for sharia law to be implemented? and let us not forget the increasing aggression by the "brothers" down south.

as for the ruling elite, I think they will learn soon enough that they can't suppress those beneath them for too much longer. the way neighboring countries are advancing - won't allow it. if they allow it to continue, they might not have a country full of servants to serve them anymore. they need to start educating the masses - big time. the path that malaysia, and singapore have followed.

[bkkandrew]

Adding a thought on the back of CDNVIC's words:-

- Look at what the Malaysians / Singaporeans are buying, it's pretty upmarket stuff from the top manufacturers. Do the Thais actually think that their homemade systems could ever compete with these US and Soviet systems???

Of course not. It's a complete waste of money. Their arguments make no sense.

If they must spend money on missiles, then jump into bed with a hi-tech proven partner, at a fraction of the cost. You will also get a product that will function in the capacity that you require it too.

A simple scenario - if the Malaysians attack (ridiculous, I know) with their recent US planes, etc, will these Thai missiles be of any use? Errm no. If the Thais had spent a fraction of the cost on Soviet / US / Israeli / French... missiles then would they be of use? Errm yes.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. The Thai way when presented with a cost for purchase of capital equipment and software is so often to try and "make one ourselves". This usually leads to malfunctioning, illconceived and more costly. Face is saved by lack of interaction with foreigners, so triples all round!!

[qualtrough]

What they really need is an aircraft carrier!

Oh, never mind....

[jasreeve17]

What they really need is an aircraft carrier!

Thai designed, developed and manufactured?

[nick2k]

Adding a thought on the back of CDNVIC's words:-

- Look at what the Malaysians / Singaporeans are buying, it's pretty upmarket stuff from the top manufacturers. Do the Thais actually think that their homemade systems could ever compete with these US and Soviet systems???

Of course not. It's a complete waste of money. Their arguments make no sense.

If they must spend money on missiles, then jump into bed with a hi-tech proven partner, at a fraction of the cost. You will also get a product that will function in the capacity that you require it too.

A simple scenario - if the Malaysians attack (ridiculous, I know) with their recent US planes, etc, will these Thai missiles be of any use? Errm no. If the Thais had spent a fraction of the cost on Soviet / US / Israeli / French... missiles then would they be of use? Errm yes.

they bought 18 su-30 from russia. top of the line stuff. the kind of aircraft you buy to "control the skies". recently in a military exercise in india, the su-30 took out most if not all the f15s they dogfight with.

again, you ask yourself. why is malaysia beefing up their military so much?

on the idea of buying existing modern technology, I would go with that. but also use it as a jumping point to make your own like many other countries have done.

[jasreeve17]

Adding a thought on the back of CDNVIC's words:-

- Look at what the Malaysians / Singaporeans are buying, it's pretty upmarket stuff from the top manufacturers. Do the Thais actually think that their homemade systems could ever compete with these US and Soviet systems???

Of course not. It's a complete waste of money. Their arguments make no sense.

If they must spend money on missiles, then jump into bed with a hi-tech proven partner, at a fraction of the cost. You will also get a product that will function in the capacity that you require it too.

A simple scenario - if the Malaysians attack (ridiculous, I know) with their recent US planes, etc, will these Thai missiles be of any use? Errm no. If the Thais had spent a fraction of the cost on Soviet / US / Israeli / French... missiles then would they be of use? Errm yes.

they bought 18 su-30 from russia. top of the line stuff. the kind of aircraft you buy to "control the skies". recently in a military exercise in india, the su-30 took out most if not all the f15s they dogfight with.

again, you ask yourself. why is malaysia beefing up their military so much?

on the idea of buying existing modern technology, I would go with that. but also use it as a jumping point to make your own like many other countries have done.

A missile to take down an SU-30 is not a simple thing. If the Thais believe that they can buy a missile system to do the job, reverse engineer it and then make their own, they are in dream land.

If they believe that they can now just magically make this system by themselves,... well TiT.

As a tecnology example - I work(ed) in leading edge s/w and electronic hardware for broadcasting, based in the UK. I sold it to Thailand. The Thais sometimes ignored conventional industry advice and came up with their own ideas... they were pathetic ideas and never worked. They ended up spending more money and dropping further behind everyone else.

[nick2k]

an eu-30 in the air is one thing. ..but they must come down sometime. even pilots need sleep.

[jasreeve17]

an eu-30 in the air is one thing. ..but they must come down sometime. even pilots need sleep.

But not during a bombing raid over Bangkok!

(This is getting silly... I'm off to Justco. )

[richard10365]

Thailand has decided to develop and produce rockets and missiles in a radical shift towards building an indigenous defence industry,

rockets and missiles ? defence against who exactly ? laos , cambodia , burma ?

those countries are not exactly highly tooled up are they ?

Countries like the USA and the UK have proven that your nearest neighbors might not be your biggest threat. Look where their militaries are currently engaged.

We all know what happens when a country disagrees with U.S. policy.

An effictive missile deterant could give ground forces the edge it needs to defeat an invading enemy.

[richard10365]

Adding a thought on the back of CDNVIC's words:-

- Look at what the Malaysians / Singaporeans are buying, it's pretty upmarket stuff from the top manufacturers. Do the Thais actually think that their homemade systems could ever compete with these US and Soviet systems???

Of course not. It's a complete waste of money. Their arguments make no sense.

If they must spend money on missiles, then jump into bed with a hi-tech proven partner, at a fraction of the cost. You will also get a product that will function in the capacity that you require it too.

A simple scenario - if the Malaysians attack (ridiculous, I know) with their recent US planes, etc, will these Thai missiles be of any use? Errm no. If the Thais had spent a fraction of the cost on Soviet / US / Israeli / French... missiles then would they be of use? Errm yes.

they bought 18 su-30 from russia. top of the line stuff. the kind of aircraft you buy to "control the skies". recently in a military exercise in india, the su-30 took out most if not all the f15s they dogfight with.

again, you ask yourself. why is malaysia beefing up their military so much?

on the idea of buying existing modern technology, I would go with that. but also use it as a jumping point to make your own like many other countries have done.

A missile to take down an SU-30 is not a simple thing. If the Thais believe that they can buy a missile system to do the job, reverse engineer it and then make their own, they are in dream land.

If they believe that they can now just magically make this system by themselves,... well TiT.

As a tecnology example - I work(ed) in leading edge s/w and electronic hardware for broadcasting, based in the UK. I sold it to Thailand. The Thais sometimes ignored conventional industry advice and came up with their own ideas... they were pathetic ideas and never worked. They ended up spending more money and dropping further behind everyone else.

As a former Patriot Missile System reparier (27X), I think if the USA can build a missile to hit another missile then designing one to hit a plane can't be that hard. The theory is quite simple but making it work is a bit tricky.

This could create thousands of high tech jobs for Thailand just as the USA did when it created it's missile defense. However, it will only cost Thailand a fraction of what it cost the USA to build because the labor is so cheap. Compare what you pay an engineer or scientist in the USA compared to wages for similiar jobs here in Thailand. A radar to help control the missile might cost the USA 40 million dollars but in Thailand it might cost 1 million.

Once Thailand masters the art of shooting down planes and missiles, they could export their weapon systems to other countries just like the USA is doing now. In fact, they could sell their weapons systems cheaper than the USA could and take their business from them. Weapons is one market that Thailand really hasn't gotten into. It could mean trillions of baht for Thailand.

Thailand could become "the hub" of military weapons technology for Southeast Asia.

[nick2k]

Thailand has decided to develop and produce rockets and missiles in a radical shift towards building an indigenous defence industry,

rockets and missiles ? defence against who exactly ? laos , cambodia , burma ?

those countries are not exactly highly tooled up are they ?

Countries like the USA and the UK have proven that your nearest neighbors might not be your biggest threat. Look where their militaries are currently engaged.

We all know what happens when a country disagrees with U.S. policy.

An effictive missile deterant could give ground forces the edge it needs to defeat an invading enemy.

are you one of the "brothers"?

[richard10365]

Thailand has decided to develop and produce rockets and missiles in a radical shift towards building an indigenous defence industry,

rockets and missiles ? defence against who exactly ? laos , cambodia , burma ?

those countries are not exactly highly tooled up are they ?

Countries like the USA and the UK have proven that your nearest neighbors might not be your biggest threat. Look where their militaries are currently engaged.

We all know what happens when a country disagrees with U.S. policy.

An effictive missile deterant could give ground forces the edge it needs to defeat an invading enemy.

are you one of the "brothers"?

I do have brothers but probably not the ones your talking about. What brothers are you referring to?

[richard10365]

This could create thousands of high tech jobs for Thailand just as the USA

They don't have the skill base within Thailand to fill these positions. They would either have to train people, which would be time consuming and costly or import skilled labour, which we know they can't afford and won't do anyway.

Thailand does have the skill base to do these things. What they might be lacking in is the leadership to accomplish this.

However, it will only cost Thailand a fraction of what it cost the USA to build because the labor is so cheap.

Poosibly cheap when it comes to picking rice, building condominiums and sewing garments, but it is not cheap to build a skill base of labour capable of doing high tech operations such as the Thais are dreaming of at the moment.

Speculation. There are enough high tech capable students out there in excellent universities who only need to be recruited and taught to do the job.

Compare what you pay an engineer or scientist in the USA compared to wages for similiar jobs here in Thailand

That's exactly why the vast majority of decent Thai engineers or scientists are abroad and will not be returning anytime soon.

Speculation, you can't possibly know where and why the vast majorities of Thai engineers and scientist are located in the world.

they could export their weapon systems to other countries just like the USA is doing now. In fact, they could sell their weapons systems cheaper than the USA could and take their business from them. Weapons is one market that Thailand really hasn't gotten into

They haven't gotten into and will not get into this market significantly if at all. It's just too difficult a market for Thailand. Sorry, but that's the truth. The country isn't advanced enough and the skill levels and knowhow just aren't here, and won't be in the near future by the looks of things.

Not to mention they are lightyears behind any current technology and have no proven track record.

There's a reason why the US and the UK are the two biggest arms suppliers on the planet. Proven weapons systems that work in combat situations. Tried, tested and proved. I can't see Thailand getting into a showdown with another country to showcase their weapons systems to the rest of the World, can you?

The whole idea is nothing but a laughable fantasy.

Thailand seems to be able to copy HIV drugs from other countries. I'd imagine this is no small feat. There are more than 70 million Thai's here in Thailand. To think they are all rice farmers is a bit narrow minded. It wouldn't be too difficult to grab the best Thai minds and put them in a think tank to create a weapons system. If they are able to create a better product, then I can see Thailand in a business showdown selling their product to the rest of the world.

Edited April 14, 2007 by richard10365

[nick2k]

This could create thousands of high tech jobs for Thailand just as the USA

They don't have the skill base within Thailand to fill these positions. They would either have to train people, which would be time consuming and costly or import skilled labour, which we know they can't afford and won't do anyway.

Thailand does have the skill base to do these things. What they might be lacking in is the leadership to accomplish this.

However, it will only cost Thailand a fraction of what it cost the USA to build because the labor is so cheap.

Poosibly cheap when it comes to picking rice, building condominiums and sewing garments, but it is not cheap to build a skill base of labour capable of doing high tech operations such as the Thais are dreaming of at the moment.

Speculation. There are enough high tech capable students out there in excellent universities who only need to be recruited and taught to do the job.

Compare what you pay an engineer or scientist in the USA compared to wages for similiar jobs here in Thailand

That's exactly why the vast majority of decent Thai engineers or scientists are abroad and will not be returning anytime soon.

Speculation, you can't possibly know where and why the vast majorities of Thai engineers and scientist are located in the world.

they could export their weapon systems to other countries just like the USA is doing now. In fact, they could sell their weapons systems cheaper than the USA could and take their business from them. Weapons is one market that Thailand really hasn't gotten into

They haven't gotten into and will not get into this market significantly if at all. It's just too difficult a market for Thailand. Sorry, but that's the truth. The country isn't advanced enough and the skill levels and knowhow just aren't here, and won't be in the near future by the looks of things.

Not to mention they are lightyears behind any current technology and have no proven track record.

There's a reason why the US and the UK are the two biggest arms suppliers on the planet. Proven weapons systems that work in combat situations. Tried, tested and proved. I can't see Thailand getting into a showdown with another country to showcase their weapons systems to the rest of the World, can you?

The whole idea is nothing but a laughable fantasy.

Thailand seems to be able to copy HIV drugs from other countries. I'd imagine this is no small feat. There are more than 70 million Thai's here in Thailand. To think they are all rice farmers is a bit narrow minded. It wouldn't be too difficult to grab the best Thai minds and put them in a think tank to create a weapons system. If they are able to create a better product, then I can see Thailand in a business showdown selling their product to the rest of the world.

for some reason, I don't think you are thai.

[cdnvic]

As a former Patriot Missile System reparier (27X), I think if the USA can build a missile to hit another missile then designing one to hit a plane can't be that hard.

You should talk to a former repairer of Russian SAMs who failed to hit much of anything in either gulf war, despite many of them being state of the art in the first round.

[kayo]

I don't support arms proliferation either, but... At elast it stands a chance of being something, under current leadership.

The previous gov't didn't have much in terms of defence.

A few hi speed chickens flung at their neighbours ain't much of a deterrent!

[OlRedEyes]

Anyone know what happened to the solar-bus that was 'developed' recently? Never heard about it again. Couldn't power the sound system?

Dreams are easy. And aplenty in this neck of the woods.

[cdnvic]

Anyone know what happened to the solar-bus that was 'developed' recently? Never heard about it again. Couldn't power the sound system?

Dreams are easy. And aplenty in this neck of the woods.

In Thailand the press release and pronouncement are the most important. Remember these hits from the past?

There will soon be no more drugs in Thailand

There will soon be no poor people in Thailand

Thailand will build a space program

There is no bird flu in Thailand

Thailand is on the verge of first world status

There are no terrorists in Thailand

and many many more.........

Too often Thais are let down by leaders who put all their effort into making grand announcements but not anything of real substance. That's only going to end when people start asking their leaders hard questions when these promises don't materialize.

[pantarei]

Yeah, why develop our own technology when we can be forever dependent on foreign technology? Why develop anything of our own? Really doesn't make sense.

ThaiGoon,

I am very ignorant about Thai education, science and technology and because you seem to be very knowledgeable I would like to ask you a few questions, if you don’t mind.

There must be at least a few world-class unis in Thailand (Chula, Thamasat, etc). Why are you studying in the US? Why not study in Thailand and not be forever dependent on foreign education?

Can you please name three scientific breakthroughs and/or major inventions made in the last 100 years by Thai scientists/inventors living in Thailand? Several Google searches didn’t turn up any meaningful answers. I also went through “Famous Inventions: A to Z” and the list of Nobel Prize winners (exclusive of Peace and Literature Prize awardees). It is quite interesting to observe patters by country, time periods, etc.

I look forward to getting meaningful information, or sources of information, from you.

Thanks.

[Ijustwannateach]

Part of the problem for Thailand in developing a technical research infrastructure is how poor a lot of the home-grown technical lab equipment is... in theory, Thailand should be a paradise for production of such equipment (cheap, highly-educated labour and plenty of natural resources) but many of the companies I have run into here are either local vendors of foreign-produced equipment or produce *very* low grade (nearly non-functional, or extremely fragile) versions of the same equipment- if I were cynical, I would guess it is designed to break down often so that you have to buy it often, and everyone pockets frequent tea-money as a result. This means that simply to stock an effective lab you have to pay foreign prices and import costs. If the government is fully behind some effort, I don't doubt that the money can be found; but it would be better overall if government invested in some effective local technical infrastructure before heading off into grandiose dreams (like a space program or a weapons program). That would reduce research costs and increase research reliability immensely both for all areas of industry and commerce, and possibly give Thailand's local neighbors (or countries even further afield) a lower-cost alternative to the "name brands" in scientific equipment. But to do this you'd have to pay higher salaries to management and research people who would no longer need to depend on tea money to survive, and there are many problems in making a shift towards a different style of economy and management while there are still senior people involved who have never had to adapt to such a system.

Another problem is that making such plans isn't as sexy as announcing a "space program" or "hub of jewelry" or something like that, and requires true long-range planning, vision, and technocracy with power. I don't see these qualities as priorities in current or recent Thai government.

"Steven"