Can Only People From "native English Speaking Countries" Teach English?

[IJustKnowItAll]

Certainly true about Brits - some very difficult accents.I personally do not think Thais have a problem with black westerners at all. They do look down on their own 'black' people from Issan or dark people from neighbouring countries. Dark skin in Asia is regarded as indicating you're from a low social group as you appear to look as if you work in the sun. Compare this to white skin which indicates working indoors. No different from England 200 years ago - the blue bloods with milk-white skin were the top of the heap.

I've met many teachers whom I found difficult to understand and always wondered how their students managed it. Accents are not a bad thing and I know my students whould have difficulty understanding me if i were talking to my friends in London. I feel it is my responsability, as a teacher, to be as clear as possible so I personally make an effort to be so.

The worst accents for me are Americans from the south and anyone north of Watford in the UK. Throw in most Aussies and Kiwis and there wouldn't be many teachers left here if jobs were based on audible accents.

As for being black in Thailand there is definite discrimination by Thais to them. I know a black American teacher here and he has mentioned discrimination. he also said Thais are not physically attracted to black men as they would be to a caucasion

[PeaceBlondie]

But, what if an Asian face or a Black face speaks in perfectly understandable, standard English? No problem. After all, do Thai students understand a Vietnamese-American who speaks a bad southern Alabama drawl? Can they distinguish between the tones of a Nigerian raised near Windsor who went to Oxford, and a girl who survived the poorest county of Ireland? No, as long as the Thai students hear the language properly in the classroom, it matters not that the blokes from Birmingham (Alabama and England) talk gibberish in the staffroom.

I drove my Vietnamese-American boyfriend to sing at a wedding in Seadrift, Texas, for a Mexican and Vietnamese young couple who spoke perfect English. After my boyfriend sang the songs in perfect English, nobody understood his conversational English, and few understood his Vietnamese in a Saigon dialect!

[DragonQuest]

if you have an American passport does that mean you were born in that country? i see a hella alot of immigrants like polish, european,chinese,mexican, and anything but white with a US passport and they speak in their native language, does that mean they qualify for the higher salary brackets? I mean America is a multi national melting pot and you have everyone from every country living there, and i know peolpe who can become a US citizen even if there are not born there , but I think they have to have certain requirements like at least 20 years living there. what do you guys think?

[DragonQuest]

ok so supposively chinese teachers get around 15k per month on ajarn.com because we are close to china,but why is it some chinese make around 30k per month???? isnt there already over a million chinese in bangkok? just curious i have a chinese friend and she told me....

[Dongguan]

if you have an American passport does that mean you were born in that country? i see a hella alot of immigrants like polish, european,chinese,mexican, and anything but white with a US passport and they speak in their native language, does that mean they qualify for the higher salary brackets? I mean America is a multi national melting pot and you have everyone from every country living there, and i know peolpe who can become a US citizen even if there are not born there , but I think they have to have certain requirements like at least 20 years living there. what do you guys think?

This is a great point, and I'm surprised I didn't think of it before!

Yes, many with an American passport are immigrants, who speak with their OWN accents, meaning an INdian with an American passport would be (in a lot of cases) speaking with the same Indian accent as he did when he had an Indian passport!

US citizenship can be gotten in about 5-8 years, I think - doesn't take 20 for sure.

[otherstuff1957]

US citizenship took 10 years when my grandparents and mother immigrated(1926-1936). I think it's about 5 years now.

Edited April 17, 2007 by otherstuff1957

[PeaceBlondie]

My guess is that the job ads are poorly written anyway, but by "native speaker" they mean you were born in a country where English is predominantly the language. Also, that implies as well that you are of European heritage (light-skinned, etc.), and don't speak with an accent that's foreign to that country. Nationalized immigrants may be citizens, but they're not native speakers. My Romanian employee, even after a BA and MA, after Detroit and Houston, spoke with a Draculan accent.

[torito]

I am a non-native English speaker who has worked for more than 20 years as a consultant in many countries, including Australia, USA, South Africa and UK. And I have survived well with my poor and strongly accentuated English.

I have lived and worked in Australia, perhaps the most racially difficult country in the world and in there I am not considered an English speaker person, because of my accent. Interesting enough, Irish and Scottish people are regarded as native English speakers, in spite that their movies have to be projected with English subtitles.

I am sure that Thais do not discriminate against non-native English speakers. I am sure that Thais welcome anybody who can manage the language.

In my view, the ones who have created the myth that only white native English speaking people can teach English are the white native English speaking themselves, who as usual, want to maintain the believe that only them can do this job. Anybody else is inadequate.

Anybody who can speak the language can teach it. To speak a language one needs to learn the basics and from there the learning process goes through many interacting events that involved people, circumstances and time.

Nobody learn English with one teacher only. The process takes years. To state that a non-native English speaking cannot teach fundamental aspects of the language just because has accent is naïve and ignorant.

This world is full of English peaking people and the majority speaks with accent which sometimes it is hard to understand…….have you been in Liverpool?, en Texas?, in Cape Town?, of in the country side of Australia?....How can I teach to a Chinese to pronounce the 'rr' correctly?.

I am sure that in Thailand non native English speaking can do as good, if not better job (as they lack arrogance) that the native English speaking people. Anything else is a myth.

Edited April 17, 2007 by torito

[jasreeve17]

Dorito - It's not a myth, it's a reality.

A few black friends that I had in Bangkok have left. One was an excellent teacher.

If you think that black skinned people are not disliked by Thais, then you are naive. I know for a fact that it doesn't have any part in either their English speaking skills, or their teaching skills. But, Thais don't like or respect them, and don't want to employ them.

More fool the Thais (actually it's Asian wide).

If you want to be PC and tell me that Thais, Chinese, Koreans, etc, think of black skinned people as their equal, then you can. But you are lying to yourself.

Watch an African sit down on the bts. (I've done so many times) People will not sit next to them, and many will get up and walk away. It's disgusting behaviour, but normal in Thailand / Asia.

[Ijustwannateach]

Torito,

It is just as silly to say that all non-native speakers can teach English just as well in every situation as a native speaker, as it is to say that non-native speakers can never teach any English under any circumstances. It is a mistake to look at the situation as black and white in either direction. That is why I am always careful to say that non-native speakers are probably ok with teaching lower-level speakers here in Thailand, but should avoid teaching the more advanced students who may sometimes be better at English than their non-native speaker teachers.

There is a difference between them. It is foolish to magnify the difference, true, but it is also foolish to ignore it.

"S"

[Dongguan]

If you think that black skinned people are not disliked by Thais, then you are naive. I know for a fact that it doesn't have any part in either their English speaking skills, or their teaching skills. But, Thais don't like or respect them, and don't want to employ them.

Watch an African sit down on the bts. (I've done so many times) People will not sit next to them, and many will get up and walk away. It's disgusting behaviour, but normal in Thailand / Asia.

This is an interesting observation, and one I've heard many times over regarding China, Thailand and the Far East in general.

I've actually talked to many colored (not black) people who claim to have experienced this type of discrimination too.

Now, I am not white - and have spent PLENTY of time travelling by local transport, going to local restaurants when I was in China ... but have never experienced any such issues. I am not dark skinned, per se ... and not sure what or if that has got much to do with the issue at hand - but I'm not Caucasian, so I don't see why a truly racist person would discriminate.

The only time when race has ever been an issue is when applying for teaching jobs. Even then, the schools were pretty upfront about it.

I have NEVER had a problem with race when applying for non teaching related jobs - I could tell that from the interviewer's body language as well as their reactions (and the fact that I held other jobs there too). I don't know about how it works for African Americans, but I would imagine a qualified person would find a job there (not talking about teaching).

But, not trying to put down someone else's experience either.

[Dongguan]

OK, well, I just thought of another aspect.

I haven't really seen THAT many African Americans working in China ... Now, not saying this is purely due to racism, but perhaps it is to some degree ...

HAVE seen people of color working there, but only some.

[torito]

Torito,

It is just as silly to say that all non-native speakers can teach English just as well in every situation as a native speaker, as it is to say that non-native speakers can never teach any English under any circumstances. It is a mistake to look at the situation as black and white in either direction. That is why I am always careful to say that non-native speakers are probably ok with teaching lower-level speakers here in Thailand, but should avoid teaching the more advanced students who may sometimes be better at English than their non-native speaker teachers.

There is a difference between them. It is foolish to magnify the difference, true, but it is also foolish to ignore it.

"S"

Certainly I do not disagree totally with you. Allow me to clarify some aspects.

I can communicate in many languages. I have been a student of all them, including English. I learnt English from Italians and Polish as well as from English. I learnt from all.

To say that a non-English speaking can teach the language at any circumstance is not correct, but this also applies to native English speaking people. Do not forget that to teach English you need a 2 week course, which anybody can do, even those native English speakers who have never been educated on their own countries (unfortunately a significant number of them).

Learning a language is a process. A process in where the learning person has to be exposed to a numberless of situations that includes learning the grammar, the phonetic aspects, the idiosyncrasy of the white cultures, and so on. This implies that one has to go for different learning stages.

One of these aspects is to be exposed to different accents. This has to be learnt. One has to put one's hear on it.

This learning process takes years and that needs lots of interaction, practice, and practice. It is not an easy language as it is not phonetic, the words has no accentuation neither gender. So one has to learn practically word by word as the English speaking kids learn to read (at a difference from phonetic languages in where one learn the sounds).

The fact that Thai may not like some colors means nothing else than this (this is a racial matter), but it does not disqualify people on their capacities. People from Philippine, Singapore, HK and African countries speak an English good enough for others to learn.

English is the only language in the world that uses a capital letter "I" for the first-person (personal pronouns). This is something about the English that students have to learn.

Edited April 18, 2007 by torito