Which Consonant To Use?

[bkkrox]

I just got through learning how to read thai. My vocab is sketchy so I can often read a word but have to look it up to find out what it means!Not too worried about that as my vocab will increase with time.One problem I am having though is trying to figure out which consonant to use when writing thai. For example,if you need to write the word,"toh-ra-sap"(telephone),how would you know which T consonant to use...I mean which of the 4 low class T's ,or maybe you have to use one of two 2 high class T's .I have asked a few thai friends who tell me that they "just know" and have learnt it over time.

Was wondering if anyone knows of any specific rules governing this area.Cheers for any advice!

[Johpa]

If you learn all the tone rules for the different classes of consonants then you can greatly reduce the consonant possibilties for any particular word. But methinks it is just as easy to memorize and remember the correct spelling over time.

[meadish_sweetball]

Well, the first step is to know your tones and to learn the tone rules like Johpa said.

Once you are certain of the syllable tones in a word you will be able to eliminate a few starting consonants. In the case of thoo-rá-sàb (still have not installed Thai script on this machine, sorry) the first syllable has a mid tone. Knowing your tone rules, you will know that this rules out a high class starting consonant.

So you are left with the low class alternatives. At this stage I would be as lost as you unless I had memorized the spelling. If you know Sanskrit or Pali and how they are usually rendered in Thai writing, that may help since this particular word is made from Indic word roots, but I am not convinced that studying this would mean a shortcut on the way to spelling irregular words: The same time spent memorizing the correct spelling is probably better (it is beneficial to learn the meaning of the root words though, because some of them occur in other words too).

Personally I read quite well, but my spelling is terrible.

[MiG16]

I have no clue about all this high/low tone consonants and sounds

am one of those...I just know sorry no help really

[bkkrox]

Yes I had worked out it would be a low class consonant,based on the tone when hearing the word but even then was left with four choices. Of course discounting the least used and considering "ท" is most commonly used for this sound,my best "guesstimate" was to use "ท". But that "method" by no means guarantees correct spelling.

Will soldier on with this...learning to read Thai was a piece of cake when compared with learning to write it. Hoping the spellings begin to stick with me the more I read!

[kriswillems]

Right, you just have to remember it. Deriving the initial consonant from the tone is difficult, but it could help to reduce the number of possiblities. And even if you know the consonant, you're often still not sure how to write the words.

For instance: how would you write NAA (falling tone)?

Well, there's only one intial 'N" sound in Thai,so it should be น.

But even if you know this you still have 2 possibilities:

หน้า: face

น่า : should

ศ is much less used than ส, and is often used in words that don't have a pure Thai root. If you break up the borrowed words into parts and remember the parts it might help you to write other words.

โทร(ะ): far or remote.

ศัพท์: word.

If you remember these 2 words you already know how to write many other words (the Thai words for: television โทรทัศน์, telegram โทรเลข, vocabulary คำศัพท์, meaningless ไม่ได้ศัพท์,....).

Knowing which final consonant you've to use is even more hard, because Thai has only 3 final consonant sounds: "p t k" and there are many consonants.

There's a very good reason why Thai children spend so much time with dictation exercises and why many adult Thai people can't write very good.

Edited April 18, 2007 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

correction:

Knowing which final consonant you've to use is even more hard, because Thai has only 7 final consonant sounds: "p t k n m ng w" and there are many consonants.

Edited April 18, 2007 by kriswillems

[bkkrox]

Right, you just have to remember it. Deriving the initial consonant from the tone is difficult, but it could help to reduce the number of possiblities. And even if you know the consonant, you're often still not sure how to write the words.

For instance: how would you write NAA (falling tone)?

Well, there's only one intial 'N" sound in Thai,so it should be น.

But even if you know this you still have 2 possibilities:

หน้า: face

น่า : should

ศ is much less used than ส, and is often used in words that don't have a pure Thai root. If you break up the borrowed words into parts and remember the parts it might help you to write other words.

โทร(ะ): far or remote.

ศัพท์: word.

If you remember these 2 words you already know how to write many other words (the Thai words for: television โทรทัศน์, telegram โทรเลข, vocabulary คำศัพท์, meaningless ไม่ได้ศัพท์,....).

Knowing which final consonant you've to use is even more hard, because Thai has only 3 final consonant sounds: "p t k" and there are many consonants.

There's a very good reason why Thai children spend so much time with dictation exercises and why many adult Thai people can't write very good.

Thanks so much for the reply..those two words will be a great help. I am also glad you brought up the final consonants...I didnt want to sound like a major whiner bringing that up too but they are as you say,alot more difficult to remember/workout for the reason you give and also because some words/syllables have consonants thrown in on the end that are not spoken (chiefly ร) often without the consonant killer(ร์).

Will keep practicing!

[katana]

...Well, there's only one intial 'N" sound in Thai,so it should be น...

Don't forget ณ eg NEN เณร - Novice monk.

[kriswillems]

...Well, there's only one intial 'N" sound in Thai,so it should be น...

Don't forget ณ eg NEN เณร - Novice monk.

ah, right! forgot . Probably forgot because besides เณร I've never seen any word with this letter as an intial consonant. Do you know any other word with an intial ณ?

[bkkrox]

...Well, there's only one intial 'N" sound in Thai,so it should be น...

Don't forget ณ eg NEN เณร - Novice monk.

ah, right! forgot . Probably forgot because besides เณร I've never seen any word with this letter as an intial consonant. Do you know any other word with an intial ณ?

Looked it up and just found 2 more:ณรงค์...campaign,competition n.

and ฌ....at,by,on,near prep.So with novice monk only makes 3 with this initial consonant.

[Richard W]

correction:

Knowing which final consonant you've to use is even more hard, because Thai has only 7 final consonant sounds: "p t k n m ng w" and there are many consonants.

Traditionally nine! "k t p ng n m ' y w". Some prefer not to count the glottal stop - it's syllable-final Thai written symbol, ะ, is usually reckoned as a vowel as it only occurs at the end of a syllable. Actually, there are also "s f", but they are pretty much restricted to loanwords from English - not that that simplifies the spelling question.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Richard W

[kriswillems]

right Richard! forgot "y" because I didn't know if I should consider a final ย as a separate consonant or just a part of a vowel.

I don't understand something. You mentioned ' in your list. Was does only a typing mistake and did you mean ะ, or am I missing something? If I am missing something, could you give an example?

Edited April 18, 2007 by kriswillems

[Richard W]

I don't understand something. You mentioned ' in your list. Was does only a typing mistake and did you mean ะ, or am I missing something? If I am missing something, could you give an example?

Many fonts lack the linguist's symbol for a glottal stop (ʔ), which looks rather like a question mark. The other symbol used is the apostrophe, though there are various varieties that could not be used as a normal apostrophe. The apostrophe is effectively used for the glottal stop in English representations such as "wa'er" for "water".

Final glottal stop in Thai is normally written with sara a, but it is not written after short high vowels (/i/, /ue/ /u/). It is enough that stressed short vowels are automatically followed by a glottal stop. Conversely, a final glottal stop shortens the preceding vowel.

[kriswillems]

Thanks Richard. You clearly have a deep and advanced understanding of Thai language and grammar.

Did you write this on thai-language.com?

An Alternative Presentation of the Thai Consonants

http://www.thai-language.com/default.aspx?ref=altcons

It's an intresting and useful view on the alphabet!

[Richard W]

Did you write this on thai-language.com?

An Alternative Presentation of the Thai Consonants

http://www.thai-language.com/default.aspx?ref=altcons

Yes.