Germany's coronavirus reproduction rate jumps, indicating rising contagion

[yuyiinthesky]

2 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Why not just be honest and state that you have a political agenda?

Wow, and what is that, my political agenda?

[geriatrickid]

11 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Again, you mix half truth and “alternative” facts, and add some personal insults.
The result is sImply too much nonsense to reply to.
 

And yet, I have an education and you do not. What you call  half truth and alternative facts is your way of coping with reality that counters your political agenda. What exactly is incorrect about what I posted.

 

Why not take something simple, this "herd immunity" you and others claim exists. Where has there been Covid 19 herd immunity demonstrated? 

[yuyiinthesky]

Just now, geriatrickid said:

And yet, I have an education and you do not. What you call  half truth and alternative facts is your way of coping with reality that counters your political agenda. What exactly is incorrect about what I posted.

 

So, go ahead and state your education. 

[Traubert]

29 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Nothing at all. 
If they run out of arguments then all they have left is to accuse you of conspiracy theories or to be a Trump supporter, or a right winger or a left winger, anything, just to avoid admitting that you might have a point.
Boring.

Sounds familiar.....

[Tounge Thaied]

It is so interesting, isn't it, to watch the countries that have not come into line with the powers that shouldn't be now see their numbers growing. Don't forget... statistics is a numbers GAME. 

[yuyiinthesky]

22 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

 

The Swedish government, unlike some other Western nations, respects the rights of its citizens enshrined in its Constitution - which explains why so many Swedes respect their government and support its policies in relation to the pandemic.

 

"Short of changing the constitution, the Swedish government simply lacked the powers to order people to stay at home or to forbid them from travelling around the country".

 

https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/06/20/did-the-swedish-constitution-prevent-a-major-lockdown/

It is very similar in Japan. Therefore also no real lockdown there. And surprisingly low numbers.

[Logosone]

20 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

And yet, I have an education and you do not.

Maybe in comedy.

 

I still remember when you argued there was no immunity to SARS Cov 2.

 

Or when you claimed there could be no vaccine for SARS Cov 2, because there was none for HIV, which as a stealth virus is completely different to SARS Cov 2.

 

Basically every claim you have ever made was proven to be entirely wrong.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Except it doesn’t work.

I bet it does. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, yuyiinthesky said:

It is very similar in Japan. Therefore also no real lockdown there. And surprisingly low numbers.

Not totally true.

[Krataiboy]

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

No. that is your biased political agenda.  The 2nd wave was  expected and predicted. Unlike the first  wave, countries are better prepared and  have the equipment on hand, the testing protocols in place and a population that is mentally prepared.  Your opinion is assumes that an infectious disease cannot be managed or contained. on the contrary, a rapid response to a reoccurrence is  how it will be managed.

 

What is this herd immunity you claim exists? Can you please provide actual published data that supports "herd immunity" in respect to Covid 19. With your advanced knowledge of immunology and virology, please share how this herd immunity has magically appeared.  With your advanced education please enlighten us how this "herd immunity" has been achieved in Sweden or elsewhere and why no one is able to demonstrate that it exists in respect to the Covid19 infection.

 

Covid19  is a corona virus. Some common colds are caused by Corona viruses. if there was herd immunity, no one would become ill with the corona caused colds. If there was herd immunity, swine herds would not be wiped out by corona virus infections. This is why  there are vaccines for canine, feline and porcine specific corona viruses.

 

Did you ever attend university, and if so, did you successfully complete a basic  biology course? One of the topics covered is adaptation and  selection. You  should go and have a wee bit of a catch up session.

 

I can deduce from your discursive and largely irrelevant ramble around the subject of corona viruses that you took a basic biology course. 

 

Congratulations. I am suitably impressed.

 

You accuse me of "a biased political agenda" for postulating that Big Pharma and politicians have a shared interest in making mass vaccination the only way out of the COVID "crisis". And there was me thinking I was just stating the obvious.

 

https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-gates-foundation/5706842

 

I'm surprised a student of basic biology like yourself should summarily dismiss the notion that Swedes might gain herd immunity from the COVID virus. This process is apparently well advanced in my own homeland. Could be you're the one with some catching up to do.

 

https://www.rt.com/uk/489513-covid-pandemic-over-herd-immunity/

 

A recent survey showed university educated folk are more prone than us plebs to believe what they read in the mainstream media. Could this explain why you have swallowed their "second wave" scaremongering (though I note you are careful to hedge your bets, Fauci-style!)?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/health-news/dr-fauci-says-a-second-wave-of-covid-19-is-not-inevitable-in-the-fall/ar-BB14FVGJ

[CLS]

This recent outbreak is mainly due to a super cluster in this slaughterhouse.

 

Don’t panic. Free movement in the Schengen area is now restored since last Monday. No spike so far.

Sorry all legends and descriptions are in German only.
 

New infections over last 7 days

New daily infections in Germany

New infections over last 7 days per region

 

source: https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/coronavirus-aktuelle-zahlen-und-entwicklungen.2897.de.html?dram:article_id=472799#reproduktionszahl

[yuyiinthesky]

46 minutes ago, CLS said:

This recent outbreak is mainly due to a super cluster in this slaughterhouse.

 

Don’t panic. Free movement in the Schengen area is now restored since last Monday. No spike so far.

Sorry all legends and descriptions are in German only.
 

New infections over last 7 days

New daily infections in Germany

New infections over last 7 days per region

 

source: https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/coronavirus-aktuelle-zahlen-und-entwicklungen.2897.de.html?dram:article_id=472799#reproduktionszahl

Thanks, the graphs are easy to understand.

 

I worry that the new cases are getting too low already, this might extend the time we see new infections - which is equal to the time the elderly must be strictly protected.

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

"Cases" is an alarmist word for infections, which are obviously rising because of increased testing. 

 

Its not really accurate to state that the more you test the more you find but its a good get out clause.

 

There are many variables in the results of increased testing. It really does depend on the state of the contagion in the country.

 

You can test more such as in the UK or NYC and countless other countries but still have your positive case numbers decreasing.

 

If you test more and your positive case numbers keep rising then you obviously haven't been testing enough previously and/or the pandemic is still spreading.

 

Other measures that are critically important, but a little more difficult to find data on is the positivity rate in testing. Then of course the time lag rates of hospital admissions

[geriatrickid]

11 hours ago, Logosone said:

Maybe in comedy.

 

I still remember when you argued there was no immunity to SARS Cov 2.

 

Or when you claimed there could be no vaccine for SARS Cov 2, because there was none for HIV, which as a stealth virus is completely different to SARS Cov 2.

 

Basically every claim you have ever made was proven to be entirely wrong.

Humor us and provide a link to this statement you claim I made on a vaccine.  I  did not make any such statement, so either  provide the link or apologize.  

 

Your ignorance of basic immunological principles is on display again. You just do not understand what immunity means. Screaming at those of us who understand what it entails doesn't change the accepted definition.  You can settle this very easily and  share with us the current evidence that there is anything more than a relatively short term presence of antibodies in those who have cleared the infection. The most recent data  supports the position that there is no evidence of long term immunity. We are 6 months into an infection and you have made conclusions that typically require large amounts of data over 1-2 years to allow for  adequate analysis.  Will you be  presenting your brilliant  conclusions at the next International Union of Immunological Societies update?  The general consensus is that the glycoprotein molecules will decrease significantly starting at 4 weeks, with larger decreases observable at 8 weeks. This isn't speculation, but the existing Corona virus research. And if it is wrong,  you should tell the scientists at U of Sask who developed the GI corona and ebola vaccines using that knowledge.

 

No, I am not entirely wrong as you claim, and your making false allegations doesn't make your irrational behavior legitimate. It's 2020 and I don't think too many people are going to fall for the Theresienstadt strategy of false claims.

 

[geriatrickid]

 

10 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I can deduce from your discursive and largely irrelevant ramble around the subject of corona viruses that you took a basic biology course. 

 

Congratulations. I am suitably impressed.

 

You accuse me of "a biased political agenda" for postulating that Big Pharma and politicians have a shared interest in making mass vaccination the only way out of the COVID "crisis". And there was me thinking I was just stating the obvious.

 

https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-gates-foundation/5706842

 

I'm surprised a student of basic biology like yourself should summarily dismiss the notion that Swedes might gain herd immunity from the COVID virus. This process is apparently well advanced in my own homeland. Could be you're the one with some catching up to do.

 

https://www.rt.com/uk/489513-covid-pandemic-over-herd-immunity/

 

A recent survey showed university educated folk are more prone than us plebs to believe what they read in the mainstream media. Could this explain why you have swallowed their "second wave" scaremongering (though I note you are careful to hedge your bets, Fauci-style!)?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/health-news/dr-fauci-says-a-second-wave-of-covid-19-is-not-inevitable-in-the-fall/ar-BB14FVGJ

Not a ramble and I have significantly more than a "basic biology" course  education. It's wonderful that you went to a thesaurus to find words that look nice. Unfortunately, it does not help with the BS you post.

 

Your Trump mimicking is laughable. I see the swipe you took at Dr. Fauci.  He's your bogeyman now isn't he, ever since he refused to support the idiotic claims of a miracle cure of Hydroxychloroquine. How did that multi million dollar fiasco work out? That's what happens when uneducated self appointed experts are unchecked.

 

Please explain how this herd immunity has been achieved in Sweden. For some strange reason there isn't anything actually published since the start of the Swedish adventure that supports this concept of "herd immunity". You need a long term immunity and guess what? No one has demonstrated that the long term immunity exists. If there was this magical herd immunity,  the numbers of infections in Sweden would not be continuing to grow while they have been falling over the past month in surrounding countries. Yes, i see your use of  Russian media. You cannot be expected to be taken seriously when that's your primary source of info. The Russians have been feeding and  distributing false information in a successful effort to destabilize western countries. 

 

I note your allegation of a conspiracy by Big Pharma and "politicians".  Another Russian sabotage campaign. What exactly is this Big pharma conspiracy? You do know that the most likely vaccines will be split between Oxford University and Sanofi, don't you?  Both are doing this as a public service. The vaccines will be sold at cost and will be shared with less fortunate countries. The delay in getting the vaccine out will be due to the lack of syringes and glass vials needed to administer the vaccine. Big Pharma will not profit from this.

 

I find it odd that you lambaste "Main Stream Media" in the West, but embrace as the gospel truth, information disseminated by China and Russia,  

Edited June 23, 2020 by geriatrickid

[Krataiboy]

11 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not a ramble and I have significantly more than a "basic biology" course  education. It's wonderful that you went to a thesaurus to find words that look nice. Unfortunately, it does not help with the BS you post.

 

Your Trump mimicking is laughable. I see the swipe you took at Dr. Fauci.  He's your bogeyman now isn't he, ever since he refused to support the idiotic claims of a miracle cure of Hydroxychloroquine. How did that multi million dollar fiasco work out? That's what happens when uneducated self appointed experts are unchecked.

 

Please explain how this herd immunity has been achieved in Sweden. For some strange reason there isn't anything actually published since the start of the Swedish adventure that supports this concept of "herd immunity". You need a long term immunity and guess what? No one has demonstrated that the long term immunity exists. If there was this magical herd immunity,  the numbers of infections in Sweden would not be continuing to grow while they have been falling over the past month in surrounding countries. Yes, i see your use of  Russian media. You cannot be expected to be taken seriously when that's your primary source of info. The Russians have been feeding and  distributing false information in a successful effort to destabilize western countries. 

 

I note your allegation of a conspiracy by Big Pharma and "politicians".  Another Russian sabotage campaign. What exactly is this Big pharma conspiracy? You do know that the most likely vaccines will be split between Oxford University and Sanofi, don't you?  Both are doing this as a public service. The vaccines will be sold at cost and will be shared with less fortunate countries. The delay in getting the vaccine out will be due to the lack of syringes and glass vials needed to administer the vaccine. Big Pharma will not profit from this.

 

I find it odd that you lambaste "Main Stream Media" in the West, but embrace as the gospel truth, information disseminated by China and Russia,  

I should have known better than to tangle with someone who learned basic biology.

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its not really accurate to state that the more you test the more you find but its a good get out clause.

 

There are many variables in the results of increased testing. It really does depend on the state of the contagion in the country.

 

You can test more such as in the UK or NYC and countless other countries but still have your positive case numbers decreasing.

 

If you test more and your positive case numbers keep rising then you obviously haven't been testing enough previously and/or the pandemic is still spreading.

 

Other measures that are critically important, but a little more difficult to find data on is the positivity rate in testing. Then of course the time lag rates of hospital admissions

Sorry, I meant the more you test the more you find until you don't.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Krataiboy

[johnpetersen]

13 hours ago, Logosone said:

Maybe in comedy.

 

I still remember when you argued there was no immunity to SARS Cov 2.

 

Or when you claimed there could be no vaccine for SARS Cov 2, because there was none for HIV, which as a stealth virus is completely different to SARS Cov 2.

 

Basically every claim you have ever made was proven to be entirely wrong.

I remember when you claimed (still claiming?) that social distancing and mask wearing doesn't work. Now even the governors of Texas, Florida, and Arizone, who relaxed social distancing rules contrary to the advice of public health experts, now concede that the sharp rise in rates is due to the relaxation of those rules. 

[Krataiboy]

13 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

It is very similar in Japan. Therefore also no real lockdown there. And surprisingly low numbers.

Last time I looked there were more than 20 COVID-infected countries which have not imposed lockdowns with better average results per capita than those which have.

 

In the US states with the tightest lockdowns have the highest infection rates. Alaska and Hawaii were the only states ranking in the top 10 most aggressive lockdowns that didn’t have high infection rates. They are also isolated relative to the contiguous United States.

 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/12/lockdown-fail-in-one-easy-graph/

[johnpetersen]

14 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Except it doesn’t work.

Tell that to the governors of California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, and Georgia, the top 5 states in total cases, who have seen sharp spikes in infections and hospitalizations after relaxing the rules. Not even they agree with you any more. 

[johnpetersen]

11 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Last time I looked there were more than 20 COVID-infected countries which have not imposed lockdowns with better average results per capita than those which have.

 

In the US states with the tightest lockdowns have the highest infection rates. Alaska and Hawaii were the only states ranking in the top 10 most aggressive lockdowns that didn’t have high infection rates. They are also isolated relative to the contiguous United States.

 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/12/lockdown-fail-in-one-easy-graph/

I looked at the source, Laughable. What they've done is take the total number of deaths (not infections) since Covid began and correlated it with the rules.. But what's relevant is where things stand now. And if you use that as your criterion, you'll find that the top 10 states for increasing infection rates are those that eased their lockdowns early.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Why do people still trust wattsupwithtaht.com?

[johnpetersen]

14 hours ago, Kinnock said:

The message from the real epidemiologists about it not being possible to compare figures from one country to another because of differences in reporting criteria, testing rates, culture, health services and politics does not seem to be getting through to the armchair epidemioligists.

 

By that do you mean the few epidemiologists who you might agree with. It's certainly possible and quite easy to compare rates among the economically developed nations where statistic gathering is strong and criteria are clearly explained.

[Krataiboy]

58 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

I looked at the source, Laughable. What they've done is take the total number of deaths (not infections) since Covid began and correlated it with the rules.. But what's relevant is where things stand now. And if you use that as your criterion, you'll find that the top 10 states for increasing infection rates are those that eased their lockdowns early.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Why do people still trust wattsupwithtaht.com?

Infections are initially bound to trend upwards anywhere where lockdowns are eased and testing increased. How much is the recent rise, one wonders, attributable to the giant germfests organised under over the last few weeks under the Black Lives Matter banner - which indicate just how important our political leaders and their "experts" believe lockdowns and social distancing really are!

 

Younger generations need to mix for any population to acquire herd immunity, which is arguably preferable to some rushed-to-market, insufficiently-tried-and-tested vaccine. They are at negligible risk compared with elderly folk - who should be kept out of harm's way, not made to bear the brunt of pandemic.

 

Don't blame wattsupwiththat.com for my omitting to mention their lockdown piece was based on figures from April/May. I assumed anyone interested would visit the website and make their own judgment of the article's relevance. In my experience, their data is well researched and accurate.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Krataiboy

[yuyiinthesky]

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Tell that to the governors of California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, and Georgia, the top 5 states in total cases, who have seen sharp spikes in infections and hospitalizations after relaxing the rules. Not even they agree with you any more. 

They should not have locked down in the first place. 

 

[johnpetersen]

51 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Infections are initially bound to trend upwards anywhere where lockdowns are eased and testing increased. How much is the recent rise, one wonders, attributable to the giant germfests organised under over the last few weeks under the Black Lives Matter banner - which indicate just how important our political leaders and their "experts" believe lockdowns and social distancing really are!

 

Younger generations need to mix for any population to acquire herd immunity, which is arguably preferable to some rushed-to-market, insufficiently-tried-and-tested vaccine. They are at negligible risk compared with elderly folk - who should be kept out of harm's way, not made to bear the brunt of pandemic.

 

Don't blame wattsupwiththat.com for my omitting to mention their lockdown piece was based on figures from April/May. I assumed anyone interested would visit the website and make their own judgment of the article's relevance. In my experience, their data is well researched and accurate.

Yes, epidemiologists agree with you that easing lockdowns will lead to a rise in infections and hospitalizations, But the governors of those state that relaxed the lockdown early denied that would be the case.

As for developing herd immunity, a survey of covid antibodes was done in sweden in May. The rate was about 6.3% for the period ending May 28.

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/sweden-covid-19-studies-ongoing-infection-antibody-tests-in-blood-donors-98648/

 Epidemiologist say 60% for this virus is necessary.

 

As for Watts Up With That...Is this why the titled their article: "Lockdown Fail In One Easy Graph" Their presentation of the data was misleadingly claimed to show that lockdowns and such are ineffective. Why would anyone even present such misleading data unless the goal was to deceive?

[johnpetersen]

4 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

They should not have locked down in the first place. 

 

So their hospital systems would be massively overwhelmed and the mortality rate of Covid and non Covid patients would have soared. Really?

[yuyiinthesky]

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

I remember when you claimed (still claiming?) that social distancing and mask wearing doesn't work. Now even the governors of Texas, Florida, and Arizone, who relaxed social distancing rules contrary to the advice of public health experts, now concede that the sharp rise in rates is due to the relaxation of those rules. 

As said, they should have not locked down in the first place.

 

The focus has to be on protecting the elderly, the vulnerable. Not locking up the healthy.

 

In the US, I admit, it is debatable who is vulnerable, with so many living on junk food, getting fat and fatter. Easy victims to any disease. May be put the focus on some health education there, more healthy food, some exercise, instead of locking up and immobilizing these fat people even more.

[yuyiinthesky]

2 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

So their hospital systems would be massively overwhelmed and the mortality rate of Covid and non Covid patients would have soared. Really?

It didn’t happen, far from it, empty hospitals almost everywhere, doctors and nurses furloughed. Non Covid patients did not get treatments, so for them the lockdowns were and are a disaster. But who cares about non-Covid patients in this time of Covid-panic.

 

 

[johnpetersen]

5 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

It didn’t happen, far from it, empty hospitals almost everywhere, doctors and nurses furloughed. Non Covid patients did not get treatments, so for them the lockdowns were and are a disaster. But who cares about non-Covid patients in this time of Covid-panic.

 

 

It didn't happen because there was a 6 week lockdown in germany. And were intelligent enough to get on it before there were a lot of coronavirus cases. And they aggressively used contact tracing. As for non-covid patients with life-threatening illnesses  not getting treatment...really? Was there a shortage of ICU beds in Germany?

[Logosone]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Humor us and provide a link to this statement you claim I made on a vaccine.  I  did not make any such statement, so either  provide the link or apologize.  

 

Your ignorance of basic immunological principles is on display again. You just do not understand what immunity means. Screaming at those of us who understand what it entails doesn't change the accepted definition.  You can settle this very easily and  share with us the current evidence that there is anything more than a relatively short term presence of antibodies in those who have cleared the infection. The most recent data  supports the position that there is no evidence of long term immunity. We are 6 months into an infection and you have made conclusions that typically require large amounts of data over 1-2 years to allow for  adequate analysis.  Will you be  presenting your brilliant  conclusions at the next International Union of Immunological Societies update?  The general consensus is that the glycoprotein molecules will decrease significantly starting at 4 weeks, with larger decreases observable at 8 weeks. This isn't speculation, but the existing Corona virus research. And if it is wrong,  you should tell the scientists at U of Sask who developed the GI corona and ebola vaccines using that knowledge.

 

No, I am not entirely wrong as you claim, and your making false allegations doesn't make your irrational behavior legitimate. It's 2020 and I don't think too many people are going to fall for the Theresienstadt strategy of false claims.

 

You have been consistently wrong, in a rambling, shrill, insulting and persistent manner, indeed on this forum there is a post where I take apart five of your most obvious false claims. Chief of those of course was your rather firm claim that there is no immunity to SARS Cov-2. A completely false claim, as we have seen.

 

I remember pointing this out at the time, weeks ago already.

 

"Prof Jon Cohen, emeritus professor of infectious diseases at Brighton and Sussex Medical School, said:  “However, it is very likely, based on other viral infections, that yes, once a person has had the infection they will generally be immune and won’t get it again. There will always be the odd exception, but that is certainly a reasonable expectation.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/the-big-question-over-coronavirus-can-a-person-get-it-twice

 

And waddayaknow, turns out Professor Cohen was right and you were wrong. 

 

I'm not going to bother to regurgitate all your other pseudo-medical pronouncements that were clearly wrong, we both know you claimed that a vaccine for SARS Cov-2 would be impossible because there was no vaccine for HIV, this despite the fact that the nature of the HIV virus was fantastically different, as a stealth virus, to SARS Cov2. 

 

So I think when it comes to claims about being better educated than others on this forum you best cloak yourself in silence, as behooves someone who was repeatedly shown to post nothing but clearly false statements.