Germany's coronavirus reproduction rate jumps, indicating rising contagion

[sawadee1947]

7 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Based on what I read there was no decision to make, their constitution doesn't allow for an enforced lockdown, so that's why there wasn't one.

Simply Nonsense 

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[ukrules]

6 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Simply Nonsense 

Lol. Do you think I sit here and make this stuff up? There have been many articles on this subject recently.

 

Quote

This is because there is no provision in the Swedish constitution that allows the imposition of a state of emergency

during peacetime crisis. There are, however, provisions to do so if there is a war. As coronavirus is a health crisis and is not literally a war, Sweden cannot impose a state of emergency.

 

 

One of many, many sources : https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/the-legal-reason-why-sweden-could-not-impose-lockdown/20200426195308005498.html

Edited June 22, 2020 by ukrules

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

But Sweden compares quite badly to their neighboring countries where swift action was taken. You're also naming the two countries (USA and UK) with probably the worst reaction to the virus: it was downplayed for a long time and the virus could spread freely before measures like a lockdown were taken. No wonder both the USA and the UK suffered such high mortality rates, since they didn’t act before massive damage had already been done. 

A third idiot and mass-killer of its population: Brazil.

[pacovl46]

7 hours ago, Letseng said:

They had.

No, they have not! People were still allowed to go to work, shopping, exercising etc. what I mean is a complete lockdown, i.e. no one is allowed to leave their house, food and essentials will be 

provided and delivered by the cops, military, firefighters what have you. Instead they tried to keep their economies alive, which resulted in a much, much higher financial burden due to the prolonged quarantine. It would’ve been much cheaper to just lock everything down for 6 weeks and the virus could’ve been eradicated and everything back to normal in mid April.

Edited June 22, 2020 by pacovl46

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

I hope it's only joking ????

That's why "happy" is between brackets. 

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Based on what I read there was no decision to make, their constitution doesn't allow for an enforced lockdown, so that's why there wasn't one.

Where yiou got this nonsence from ?

No by men written law can cover all eventualities, so every government is allowed to put all written laws aside. Only.. they have to face the Parliament for that,... afterwards...

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Based on what I read there was no decision to make, their constitution doesn't allow for an enforced lockdown, so that's why there wasn't one.

Still wrong. Has nothing to do with constitution. They have "State of Emergency" as any other European Country.

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Lol. Do you think I sit here and make this stuff up? There have been many articles on this subject recently.

 

 

 

One of many, many sources : https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/the-legal-reason-why-sweden-could-not-impose-lockdown/20200426195308005498.html

Troll post

[dieter1]

"Germany's coronavirus reproduction rate jumped to 2.88 on Sunday, up from 1.79 a day earlier,"

 

that is pure fake news. They did not know the real reproduction rate. They just publish some numbers of the positive testing results and this is some thing different. It depends on how many tests they are doing. For whatever reason, they seem not interested in knowing the real infection rate. They are playing this game everywhere.  (rule: repeat a lie as much as possible and in the end people will believe it).

 

At this point, they starting testing the workers in these slaughterhouses. I could have giving them the information before, that there would be a big probability of getting these result (they choose not to ask me before) because of the working conditions of these workers (living very crowded, many sleeping in one room ,transported in vans, everyday, ...)

 

Now, these political c-actors, are playing these act of "Betroffenheit" (deeply concerned?). Pretending to be shocked. These miserable working conditions in these slaughterhouses are well known for decades but they choose to do nothing to change this.

 

instead they are playing the drama how shocked they are ("betroffen") and trying to convince  their audience, how strong and effective they will act now as "our" leaders. Yes, we will sleep well now, and for shure will give them our vote in the next election.

[Susco]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

Lol. Do you think I sit here and make this stuff up?

How about, yes?

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, Letseng said:

They had.

Not quite.

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, ukrules said:

Based on what I read there was no decision to make, their constitution doesn't allow for an enforced lockdown, so that's why there wasn't one.

That's correct. Thanks for making a point I had overlooked.

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, ukrules said:

There have been many articles on this subject recently.

 

 

 

One of many, many sources : https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/the-legal-reason-why-sweden-could-not-impose-lockdown/20200426195308005498.html

Interesting, I was not aware of that, from your link:

 

Swedish constitution does not have a specific provision allowing the government to declare a state of emergency

 

This is the core we started from, Anders Tegnell, state epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told the British science journal Nature. It is not legally possible to close down Swedish cities under the current laws, he said.

The communicable disease control act allows mandatory testing and quarantining people within a small area, such as a school or a hotel. But locking down a whole geographical region is not permitted.

[Krataiboy]

6 hours ago, rickudon said:

Sweden got it right? Currently has the second highest number of cases per million in Europe and 5th highest death rate per million. And over the past 2 weeks, the number of daily cases has approximately doubled - which means more deaths soon. Also has a rather flaky reporting system (e.g. no cases/deaths often reported on weekends and some other days, only hospital deaths?). New cases are now being reported at about 5 times the rate of the UK.

 

Anyway, they are doing  a useful real world experiment. Hope the Swedish people do not regret it.

"Cases" is an alarmist word for infections, which are obviously rising because of increased testing. For a country which shunned lockdowns, being as low as fifth in the Euro mortality league, despite their admitted failure to do enough initially to protect care homes. is pretty impressive.

 

The Swedish people must be thrilled to have a government which treats them like responsible citizens instead of silly sheep or recalcitrant children.

 

Their economy is stronger, their civil liberties intact, and they will not suffer the enormous toll of lockdown deaths - which many experts predict will top those due to the virus - incurred by countries which fear-mongered their populations into months of needless incarceration.

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

#13 still still stupid as before ????

Thanks for that Sawadee krap.

[Meat Pie 47]

5 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Sweden compares favourably to countries like the US and Britain, where lockdowns produced worse mortality rates, while wrecking their economies and trampling citizens' rights.

 

The Swedes were too gentlemanly to point out another salient fact. Numerous experts predict deaths caused by months of house arrest will far exceed those attributed to virus.

And another Trump supporter

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, puipuitom said:

The Swedes are extremely "happy", when they compare their clean up of expensive care-oldies with the results in the other Nordic countries: Norway, Denmark and Finland.

What would YOU think, that Sweden's chief epidemiologist Anders Tegnell would confess he "<deleted> it up ? Even Boris Cummings did not do so, despite the by far highest corona-casualties per million inhabitants on the world. 

Tegnell has freely admitted too little was done to protect Sweden's care home residents, who constitute (if I recall rightly) nearly half of all the country's COVID fatalities.

 

The UK's record in this regard is arguably even worse, since the government created second waves of the epidemic in residential and nursing homes via a deliberate policy of returning elderly residents from hospital while still infected.

 

British care homes routinely, presumably under pressure from the government, persuaded their residents to sign "Do not resuscitate" forms, with a predictable outcome in terms of enhancing the "Covid-related" mortality figures.

[yuyiinthesky]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

No, they have not! People were still allowed to go to work, shopping, exercising etc. what I mean is a complete lockdown, i.e. no one is allowed to leave their house, food and essentials will be 

provided and delivered by the cops, military, firefighters what have you. Instead they tried to keep their economies alive, which resulted in a much, much higher financial burden due to the prolonged quarantine. It would’ve been much cheaper to just lock everything down for 6 weeks and the virus could’ve been eradicated and everything back to normal in mid April.

Except it doesn’t work.

[Krataiboy]

2 minutes ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

And another Trump supporter

Thanks for the compliment, but what relevance has this to the subject under review?

[yuyiinthesky]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

Germany's coronavirus reproduction rate jumped to 2.88 on Sunday, up from 1.79 a day earlier, health authorities said, a rate showing infections are rising above the level needed to contain the disease over the longer term.

Good, the curve was flattened, the hospitals are empty, that target was reached easily, now we need widespread immunity.
 

Just please don’t forget to keep the elderly and nursing homes isolated.

[geriatrickid]

10 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

The more one hears of second waves in countries which went for lockdowns, the more one is inclined to feel the Swedes got it right.

No. that is your biased political agenda.  The 2nd wave was  expected and predicted. Unlike the first  wave, countries are better prepared and  have the equipment on hand, the testing protocols in place and a population that is mentally prepared.  Your opinion is assumes that an infectious disease cannot be managed or contained. on the contrary, a rapid response to a reoccurrence is  how it will be managed.

 

9 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Isolate the sick and elderly.  99.9 percent will not have serious problems.  

Nice thought, but ask Canada and the USA how that worked out.

Much of Canada's carnage was in long term care facilities where  the sick & elderly were isolated. The facilities did not have  appropriate  prevention protocols in place, were understaffed, a lack of PPE, had poorly trained personnel and relied on shift workers who went from home to home spreading infection.

 

6 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Economically, socially and politically, they clearly did. Hopefully, being able to mingle in a way lockdown populations couldn't, Swedes will already achieved a high degree of herd immunity.

 

Mind you, seasonal flu could come along and muddy the waters, while playing into the hands of the "lockdown till we get a vaccine" political/pharmaceutical lobby.

What is this herd immunity you claim exists? Can you please provide actual published data that supports "herd immunity" in respect to Covid 19. With your advanced knowledge of immunology and virology, please share how this herd immunity has magically appeared.  With your advanced education please enlighten us how this "herd immunity" has been achieved in Sweden or elsewhere and why no one is able to demonstrate that it exists in respect to the Covid19 infection.

 

Covid19  is a corona virus. Some common colds are caused by Corona viruses. if there was herd immunity, no one would become ill with the corona caused colds. If there was herd immunity, swine herds would not be wiped out by corona virus infections. This is why  there are vaccines for canine, feline and porcine specific corona viruses.

 

Did you ever attend university, and if so, did you successfully complete a basic  biology course? One of the topics covered is adaptation and  selection. You  should go and have a wee bit of a catch up session.

 

[yuyiinthesky]

4 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Thanks for the compliment, but what relevance has this to the subject under review?

Nothing at all. 
If they run out of arguments then all they have left is to accuse you of conspiracy theories or to be a Trump supporter, or a right winger or a left winger, anything, just to avoid admitting that you might have a point.
Boring.

[Kinnock]

The message from the real epidemiologists about it not being possible to compare figures from one country to another because of differences in reporting criteria, testing rates, culture, health services and politics does not seem to be getting through to the armchair epidemioligists.

 

[yuyiinthesky]

1 minute ago, geriatrickid said:

No. that is your biased political agenda.  The 2nd wave was  expected and predicted. Unlike the first  wave, countries are better prepared and  have the equipment on hand, the testing protocols in place and a population that is mentally prepared.  Your opinion is assumes that an infectious disease cannot be managed or contained. on the contrary, a rapid response to a reoccurrence is  how it will be managed.

 

Nice thought, but ask Canada and the USA how that worked out.

Much of Canada's carnage was in long term care facilities where  the sick & elderly were isolated. The facilities did not have  appropriate  prevention protocols in place, were understaffed, a lack of PPE, had poorly trained personnel and relied on shift workers who went from home to home spreading infection.

 

What is this herd immunity you claim exists? Can you please provide actual published data that supports "herd immunity" in respect to Covid 19. With your advanced knowledge of immunology and virology, please share how this herd immunity has magically appeared.  With your advanced education please enlighten us how this "herd immunity" has been achieved in Sweden or elsewhere and why no one is able to demonstrate that it exists in respect to the Covid19 infection.

 

Covid19  is a corona virus. Some common colds are caused by Corona viruses. if there was herd immunity, no one would become ill with the corona caused colds. If there was herd immunity, swine herds would not be wiped out by corona virus infections. This is why  there are vaccines for canine, feline and porcine specific corona viruses.

 

Did you ever attend university, and if so, did you successfully complete a basic  biology course? One of the topics covered is adaptation and  selection. You  should go and have a wee bit of a catch up session.

 

Again, you mix half truth and “alternative” facts, and add some personal insults.
The result is sImply too much nonsense to reply to.
 

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Again, you mix half truth and “alternative” facts, and add some personal insults.
The result is sImply too much nonsense to reply to.
 

It was a well written post with no insults 

[yuyiinthesky]

7 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Some common colds are caused by Corona viruses. if there was herd immunity, no one would become ill with the corona caused colds.

Just one example of the utter nonsense you produce. 

[yuyiinthesky]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

It was a well written post with no insults 

Well written possibly, but nonsense. 

The last paragraph is in my humble opionion an insult, especially after he showed that it is him who needs some catch up sessions.

[geriatrickid]

1 minute ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Nothing at all. 
If they run out of arguments then all they have left is to accuse you of conspiracy theories or to be a Trump supporter, or a right winger or a left winger, anything, just to avoid admitting that you might have a point.
Boring.

The incessant posting of scientifically unsubstantiated claims is offensive to many people, particularly those who have some understanding of applied health sciences, or common sense.

You and others bombard the forums with your politically motivated positions and preclude an intelligent discussion. You assume you have victory when the people with common sense just ignore the forum.

 

What exactly are your academic qualifications to offer your conclusions?  I don't opine on day trading or bar fines or IT coding because I have a limited knowledge of such things. However, for the past few months, you and others have pushed a political agenda rooted in politics and not science. You carry on as if you understand health care systems and the economics of health care. You do not. Why not just be honest and state that you have a political agenda?

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Simply Nonsense 

 

2 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Troll post

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Where yiou got this nonsence from ?

No by men written law can cover all eventualities, so every government is allowed to put all written laws aside. Only.. they have to face the Parliament for that,... afterwards...

 

Not nonsense or even nonsence.

 

The Swedish government, unlike some other Western nations, respects the rights of its citizens enshrined in its Constitution - which explains why so many Swedes respect their government and support its policies in relation to the pandemic.

 

"Short of changing the constitution, the Swedish government simply lacked the powers to order people to stay at home or to forbid them from travelling around the country".

 

https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/06/20/did-the-swedish-constitution-prevent-a-major-lockdown/