Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, johnpetersen said: I remember when you claimed (still claiming?) that social distancing and mask wearing doesn't work. Now even the governors of Texas, Florida, and Arizone, who relaxed social distancing rules contrary to the advice of public health experts, now concede that the sharp rise in rates is due to the relaxation of those rules. If you think the governors of Texas, Flordia and Arizona are the last word in medical evidence, I think you are about to be taken as seriously as gerikid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpetersen Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Logosone said: If you think the governors of Texas, Flordia and Arizona are the last word in medical evidence, I think you are about to be taken as seriously as gerikid. No, they're not the last word. But they were among the last to concede, after much denial of the warnings of public health experts that their relaxation of standards was going to bring about a rise in infection and hospitalization. Edited June 23, 2020 by johnpetersen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpetersen Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Logosone said: You have been consistently wrong, in a rambling, shrill, insulting and persistent manner, indeed on this forum there is a post where I take apart five of your most obvious false claims. Chief of those of course was your rather firm claim that there is no immunity to SARS Cov-2. A completely false claim, as we have seen. I remember pointing this out at the time, weeks ago already. "Prof Jon Cohen, emeritus professor of infectious diseases at Brighton and Sussex Medical School, said: “However, it is very likely, based on other viral infections, that yes, once a person has had the infection they will generally be immune and won’t get it again. There will always be the odd exception, but that is certainly a reasonable expectation.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/the-big-question-over-coronavirus-can-a-person-get-it-twice And waddayaknow, turns out Professor Cohen was right and you were wrong. I'm not going to bother to regurgitate all your other pseudo-medical pronouncements that were clearly wrong, we both know you claimed that a vaccine for SARS Cov-2 would be impossible because there was no vaccine for HIV, this despite the fact that the nature of the HIV virus was fantastically different, as a stealth virus, to SARS Cov2. So I think when it comes to claims about being better educated than others on this forum you best cloak yourself in silence, as behooves someone who was repeatedly shown to post nothing but clearly false statements. You honestly believe that the opinion of one person in the field is definitive? In fact, there's lots of disagreement in the scientific community about this because it's still new: Our biggest questions about immunity to covid-19 How long does immunity to covid-19 last after infection? We really have no idea yet. There have been sporadic reports of some people in the world coming down with covid-19 twice, and so far it’s unclear why. It’s well documented that other coronavirus infections confer only temporary immunity, sometimes lasting no more than a few months. Covid-19 may follow the same pattern, but it’s too early to tell. https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/06/19/1004169/biggest-questions-about-immunity-to-covid-19/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuyiinthesky Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: It didn't happen because there was a 6 week lockdown in germany. And were intelligent enough to get on it before there were a lot of coronavirus cases. And they aggressively used contact tracing. As for non-covid patients with life-threatening illnesses not getting treatment...really? Was there a shortage of ICU beds in Germany? The health care system in Germany is one of the best wordwide, with or without lockdown it was not in danger of getting overwhelmed. Nevertheless the lockdowns cause cancer patients to skip checkups and treatments, which allows the cancer to progress to the next levels, which are more difficult to treat, or even not curable any more. Professor Karol Sikora, the Founding Dean and Professor of Medicine at the University of Buckingham Medical School and an ex-director of the WHO Cancer Programme, expects for the UK alone additional 50000 cancer deaths due to the lockdown (Source: Professor Karol Sikora says this in an interview with unherd.com, see their website or youtube). I assume the numbers for Germany are similar. And that’s just for cancer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuyiinthesky Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: There have been sporadic reports of some people in the world coming down with covid-19 twice, and so far it’s unclear why. Please show one real report, where the doctors and scientists examining it confirm that it is a real second infection, and not an issue with the unreliable tests and / or a relapse. I know the headlines of the journalists often suggest a second infection, but the doctors examining the case do not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: No, they're not the last word. But they were among the last to concede, after much denial of the warnings of public health experts that their relaxation of standards was going to bring about a rise in infection and hospitalization. I don't think what politicians say about the coronavirus is terribly interesting, particularly governors of Arizona, Florida and Texas. However, it is interesting to see what is happening in Texas, where the virus hotspots are in rural areas, often near meat processing plants, and not exclusively in the most densely populated cities. This probably has more to do with the difficulty of implementing thorough testing in gigantic territory like the US, so that once a testing focus is established the figures start to go up in that area. "AUSTIN — Texas’ COVID-19 “hotspots,” at least as much as the disease’s spread has been detected, are in rural counties. Ranked by prevalence of confirmed cases of the coronavirus, two of the top three Texas counties are home to huge meat processing plants: Moore County, near the top of the Panhandle; and Shelby County, along the Louisiana border." https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2020/04/25/texas-coronavirus-hotspots-are-in-rural-counties-near-big-meat-processing-plants/ The meat processing plant experience is indeed mirrored in Germany. Quite curious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpetersen Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said: The health care system in Germany is one of the best wordwide, with or without lockdown it was not in danger of getting overwhelmed. Nevertheless the lockdowns cause cancer patients to skip checkups and treatments, which allows the cancer to progress to the next levels, which are more difficult to treat, or even not curable any more. Professor Karol Sikora, the Founding Dean and Professor of Medicine at the University of Buckingham Medical School and an ex-director of the WHO Cancer Programme, expects for the UK alone additional 50000 cancer deaths due to the lockdown (Source: Professor Karol Sikora says this in an interview with unherd.com, see their website or youtube). I assume the numbers for Germany are similar. And that’s just for cancer. Assuming that the numbers of collateral deaths for the Germany and the UK would be similar is utterly unfounded The UK health care system was overwhelmed. Germany's wasn't. You're just making my point about the effects of an overwhelmed health care system on non-covid patients. Were cancer patients in Germany prohibited from getting treatment during the lockdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: You honestly believe that the opinion of one person in the field is definitive? In fact, there's lots of disagreement in the scientific community about this because it's still new: Our biggest questions about immunity to covid-19 How long does immunity to covid-19 last after infection? We really have no idea yet. There have been sporadic reports of some people in the world coming down with covid-19 twice, and so far it’s unclear why. It’s well documented that other coronavirus infections confer only temporary immunity, sometimes lasting no more than a few months. Covid-19 may follow the same pattern, but it’s too early to tell. https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/06/19/1004169/biggest-questions-about-immunity-to-covid-19/ You're missing the point, your own link above makes clear that there IS immunity. The only question is for how long. The poster I replied to claimed that there was no immunity whatsoever. We certainly have a very clear idea that immunity is a reality with SARS Cov2. Anyone who claims otherwise is frankly living in an alternate universe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: Assuming that the numbers of collateral deaths for the Germany and the UK would be similar is utterly unfounded The UK health care system was overwhelmed. Germany's wasn't. You're just making my point about the effects of an overwhelmed health care system on non-covid patients. Were cancer patients in Germany prohibited from getting treatment during the lockdown? Yes, absolutely. One million operations were cancelled in Germany. See the figures for cancer patients here: https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article208557665/Wegen-Corona-In-Deutschland-wurden-908-000-OPs-aufgeschoben.html 52,000 cancer related operations were cancelled in Germany. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpetersen Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Logosone said: You're missing the point, your own link above makes clear that there IS immunity. The only question is for how long. The poster I replied to claimed that there was no immunity whatsoever. We certainly have a very clear idea that immunity is a reality with SARS Cov2. Anyone who claims otherwise is frankly living in an alternate universe. You are not telling the truth about what geriatrickid claimed. Here's what he said: "The most recent data supports the position that there is no evidence of long term immunity. We are 6 months into an infection and you have made conclusions that typically require large amounts of data over 1-2 years to allow for adequate analysis." This is entirely consistent with the information present in the article I cited 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuyiinthesky Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: Assuming that the numbers of collateral deaths for the Germany and the UK would be similar is utterly unfounded The UK health care system was overwhelmed. Germany's wasn't. You're just making my point about the effects of an overwhelmed health care system on non-covid patients. Were cancer patients in Germany prohibited from getting treatment during the lockdown? See Logosone’s reply. And as you correctly say, this is despite that the healthcare system in Germany was never near being overwhelmed. I have been working in a cancer hospital, it is a tragedy to see the unnecessary suffering and death caused by a reaction to SARS-CoV-2 based on panic and scaremongering. There was no need to sacrifice any cancer patient, especially not in Germany. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, johnpetersen said: You are not telling the truth about what geriatrickid claimed. Here's what he said: "The most recent data supports the position that there is no evidence of long term immunity. We are 6 months into an infection and you have made conclusions that typically require large amounts of data over 1-2 years to allow for adequate analysis." This is entirely consistent with the information present in the article I cited That was here, I was referring to an earlier thread, when the pandemic started where he claimed there was no immunity. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, Logosone said: That was here, I was referring to an earlier thread, when the pandemic started where he claimed there was no immunity. Anyway, it doesn't matter. That is correct, there is no immunity to the virus . Some people contract the virus and show no symptoms , but, that doesnt make them immune from catching it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: That is correct, there is no immunity to the virus . Some people contract the virus and show no symptoms , but, that doesnt make them immune from catching it Lol. ""The question is not whether you become immune, it's how long for," said Paul Hunter, a professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia." https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965 So there is definitely immunity to the virus. The duration of immunity is the issue. Not whether there is immunity. There clearly is. Edited June 23, 2020 by Logosone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Logosone said: Lol. What was so funny ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: What was so funny ? You said there was no immunity to the virus. It's a silly statement. Edited June 23, 2020 by Logosone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Anyway, getting back on topic: "The Robert Koch Institute said Germany’s R number was particularly sensitive to local virus outbreaks because the overall level of new cases was so low." https://www.ft.com/content/057e861b-ef35-418d-9d16-81d2a0219212 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Logosone said: You said there was no immunity to the virus. It's a silly statement. Are there people who are immune from catching Covid 19 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: Are there people who are immune from catching Covid 19 ? Yes, of course there are. T cells found in COVID-19 patients ‘bode well’ for long-term immunity The results suggest “one reason that a large chunk of the population may be able to deal with the virus is that we may have some small residual immunity from our exposure to common cold viruses,” says viral immunologist Steven Varga of the University of Iowa. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity Edited June 23, 2020 by Logosone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
from the home of CC Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 1:11 PM, sawadee1947 said: Totally BS. Even the Swedish Govt got doubts about their decision. This leads to a decision that the neighbouring countries stop Swedes from entering. over time that will become common in many areas of the world.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, Logosone said: Yes, of course there are. T cells found in COVID-19 patients ‘bode well’ for long-term immunity The results suggest “one reason that a large chunk of the population may be able to deal with the virus is that we may have some small residual immunity from our exposure to common cold viruses,” says viral immunologist Steven Varga of the University of Iowa. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity We were referring to comments made at the start of the pandemic . People may build up immunity, but they arent naturally immune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuyiinthesky Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said: What was so funny ? Your statement was so blatantly wrong, I had to laugh out loudly too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacovl46 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 19 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said: Except it doesn’t work. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said: Your statement was so blatantly wrong, I had to laugh out loudly too. Are there some people that have natural immunity from Covid 19 ? I recall Yinn stating that Thais are strong which makes Thais immune to the virus Is that true ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, from the home of CC said: over time that will become common in many areas of the world.. unless we have a Vaccine???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 56 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: People may build up immunity, but they arent naturally immune Indeed people may build up immunity, usually as a result of having had the virus, however, there are absolutely people who are naturally immune. Some have such good T cell responses they are naturally immune. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: Are there some people that have natural immunity from Covid 19 ? I recall Yinn stating that Thais are strong which makes Thais immune to the virus Is that true ? Yes, Thais are Supermen. They are genetically superior to all of us, especially in their immune system response. That is why Thailand has virtually no cases and deaths from Covid 19. Not because they don't test a lot. But because they're naturally strong supermen with a genetically superior immune response. Don't believe everything Yinn posts!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, Logosone said: Indeed people may build up immunity, usually as a result of having had the virus, however, there are absolutely people who are naturally immune. Some have such good T cell responses they are naturally immune. I didnt realise that some people are naturally immune to Covid 19 I though Covid was like HIV and the flu where everyone could catch it Learn something new everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosone Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: I didnt realise that some people are naturally immune to Covid 19 I though Covid was like HIV and the flu where everyone could catch it Learn something new everyday You're confusing SARS Cov2 with Covid 19. The latter is the disesase. The former is the virus. You're also confusing what immunity means. Immunity means the ability of an organism to resist a particular illness by the action of specific antibodies or other immune responses. It does not mean immunity to the virus itself, but to the illness. Whilst it is certainly possible that some people can not catch the virus, there is no evidence on that and we should assume that everyone can catch it. However, whilst everyone can catch it some people's T-Cell or other immune response is so good they don't actually get the illness, Covid 19. Hope that's clear. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Logosone said: You're also confusing what immunity means. Immunity means the ability of an organism to resist a particular illness by the action of specific antibodies or other immune responses. *Immunity* also means "protection or exemption from something, especially an obligation or penalty." I do feel that you should remove your "LOL" post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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