Clearing Former Farm Land

[Gary A]

We have had ten rai for a couple of years and have done nothing with it. It's hard to tell when it was last farmed because some of the brush and trees that have popped up here and there are about three or four inches in diameter. I have been after my wife to get a tractor in there to plow the brush down and take out what trees are not too big. My wife is tighter than the bark on a tree but she finally found a guy who was willing to do it. She is paying the poor guy a whopping 400 baht per rai. I was there today watching for a while and those trees are REALLY difficult to take out. I have no idea how those Ford tractors hold together. I told her to make sure she gives him a BIG tip because he sure deserves it. He pushes the brush in a pile then plows the ground. When he plows as far as he can, he pushes it into burning piles back on top of the plowed ground.

I was concerned that there would be a lot of rocks, but have found VERY few. The few we turned up look like volcanic rock and appear to have a lot of iron in them. They look rusty and break apart rather easily.

The ground itself actually looks pretty good and a little sandy so maybe it will not be a good area for a pond. I think before/if we plant the eucalyptus we may try some soybeans on at least part of it. The guy with the tractor wanted to burn it off first but I told my wife that I wanted as much of the weeds and brush plowed under as possible. Probably a mistake because I'm sure we will have a bumper crop of weeds come up. If the sample bean plot does OK I may wait for all the weeds to germinate on the rest of the ground and then burn them off when the dry season comes again.

I do feel sorry for the guy with the tractor. I'll have to give him a bonus, my wife would think 500 baht is a big tip. I'll give him more work whenever I have it. After he pays for his fuel, he can't have much money left. It's fun for me to experiment and have the local farmers grin and tell each other how stupid the farang is. I'll more than likely never make a baht but I'll enjoy trying. My wife just told me that beans wouldn't grow there. I may have to put in a bore hole for irrigation just to prove her wrong. I am now determined to grow soybeans if it cost me twice as much as they are worth.

[Lickey]

We done more or less the same thing last december, the tractor man cleaned up about 4 rai of old thai potatoe waste, then gave it a good disc ploughing, its still unplanted now, but will be more papaya soon, the next bit we wanted cleared was next to the bamboo plantation and surrounded by papayas, old trees that had fallen, scrub and bush 2 mtrs tall, same as you, some 4in thick trunks ect, because there was nowhere to blade/doze the bushes and scrub to, we had to clean by hand and burn on-site, this was only about 3/4 rai and took about a week with 2 locals helping, the tractor man came back and gave the land a good seeing too, took him 6 hours and both jobs together cost 2000bht, we cleaned the land of all roots and shoots ect, made 12 raised seed beds, covered them with the black plastic netting to keep heavy rain and sun off, dug in some dried pig shit ect, now we have some brilliant salad beds, they grow so quick and of good quality they outstrip family demand, so weve been selling it on the local market, water is a must though,twice a day, no problem here, have borehole holding tank and booster pump mainly for the papaya, but we have the big clay pots next to salad and use watering cans.

Just an idea Gary, if you have a nice shaded area on your 10 rai, and like salad ect, might be worth thinking about, you might have a problem with the ploughed in weeds ect, if you burnt them, this would have given you some potash and other important stuff for soil, on the other hand, plowed in green stuff does contain nitrogen,

Hope whatever you do goes well for you, Regards Lickey..

[Khonwan]

... She is paying the poor guy a whopping 400 baht per rai.....

Don't feel too bad Gary. As a tractor owner I can tell you that clearing ground for 400 baht per rai is the norm (around my district anyway). Also normal to make lunch for the operator should he be working for you at that time, and to give him some lao khao or beer at the end of the day if finishing up late afternoon / evening.

[Maizefarmer]

............. you should have brun't it first - here come the weeds!!!

No big deal - plough it, let it rain a bit or put a couple sprinklers up, let the weeds grow for a few weeks and then spray with herbicide.

In all honesty, you're still going to get some weeds - however it's done.

Wishing you all the best with the beans - why beans, what made you decide on growing beans?

MF

[Gary A]

............. you should have brun't it first - here come the weeds!!!

No big deal - plough it, let it rain a bit or put a couple sprinklers up, let the weeds grow for a few weeks and then spray with herbicide.

In all honesty, you're still going to get some weeds - however it's done.

Wishing you all the best with the beans - why beans, what made you decide on growing beans?

MF

Why beans? That's a question with no good answer. I see all the scrawny stands of beans around here and was curious if I could do better. I probably won't because I had sweet dreams of big juicy tomatoes and that SURE didn't happen. The best part of my experimentation is that I don't have to make any money from it. I raised corn, wheat, oats and soybeans in Ohio. Beans are easier than corn. I doubt I could get anyone to knife in anhydrous ammonia here. In Ohio, I'd take my soil samples to the guy who sold the seed, fertilizer and herbicide and he would tell me what I needed. I won't have that luxury here for sure. Whatever I plant it will be row crops and that will give the locals some work hoeing weeds. If I get tired of it some sort of trees can always be planted.

Do you know anyone locally who can do a soil analysis to see if the land would be suitable to build a pond?

EDIT - My wife went to check on the progress and just came home to tell me that the guy said it is too difficult and that it must be burned first. I asked her when he was going to burn it and she says he is afraid because of the fire going out of control and spreading. Now what ???

Edited April 23, 2007 by Gary A

[pnustedt]

EDIT - My wife went to check on the progress and just came home to tell me that the guy said it is too difficult and that it must be burned first. I asked her when he was going to burn it and she says he is afraid because of the fire going out of control and spreading. Now what ???

If the tractor he is using is big enough he should clear scrub with the bucket into piles and then set fire to it, that way the flames will not spread, then plough.

Beans are a good intermediary crop because they put nitrogen back into the soil.

[Maizefarmer]

EDIT - My wife went to check on the progress and just came home to tell me that the guy said it is too difficult and that it must be burned first. I asked her when he was going to burn it and she says he is afraid because of the fire going out of control and spreading. Now what ???

If the tractor he is using is big enough he should clear scrub with the bucket into piles and then set fire to it, that way the flames will not spread, then plough.

Beans are a good intermediary crop because they put nitrogen back into the soil.

Agreed - slash it, or get the tractor driver to use a front blade to about an inch off the ground to tear it all out and push it into a pile - then burn it in several piles around the field

If the soil has not been ploughed for a long time then cross cut it - plough now , leave for a few days then plough again across it at 90degrees.

Let is settle for a few days, get your seeds down then spray with pre-emergance herbicide starightaway - that way the beans will get about a month to grow before the weeds get in the way - bu which time they will be big enough to not have to worry.

As for fertilser - I know nothing about growing beans so I ain;t going to comment.

MF

[Gary A]

Two bottles of Lao Kao and a thousand baht was enough for him to gather some of his friends to help him burn off the rest of the brush. Tomorrow he should be able to tear out and pile what didn't burn and to finish the plowing. There's a termite mound about 10 feet high I'd like to get rid of too.

[Lickey]

Two bottles of Lao Kao and a thousand baht was enough for him to gather some of his friends to help him burn off the rest of the brush. Tomorrow he should be able to tear out and pile what didn't burn and to finish the plowing. There's a termite mound about 10 feet high I'd like to get rid of too.

Gary, that termite mound is probaly the place to do a borehole, this ive learnt from a recent experince on our farm, the borehole gang extented the original bore, {the liner was already in, just needed cleaning out} he came up to the bamboo plantation and saw this mtr high mound, he garanteed water 10 mts down, as ants will only build above water, so perhaps get a bore man in to weigh it up for you.

Rgds Lickey.

[chownah]

Ants will only build above water? How do they know that there is water down there 10 metres?...and why would an ant prefer to build above a place where the water is 10 metres rather than 20 metres? Do the ants burrow all the way down 10 metres to get water?

Sceptical minds want to know.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

I can't speak for Thailand - but the argument is certainly true for parts of Africa where they use water below the mound to control humidity and temperatue in the nest.

How do they know water is there? How do Asian honey bees get back to the same branch on the same tree season later from over a thousand miles away when all the brood that was there from the previous season are dead?

[Lickey]

http://www.mine-engineer.com/mining/anthill.htm

Quite right MF, as the above site shows, Having just questioned mrs about the water, the man said 10 mtrs would be water, 25 mtrs and he would gaurantee year round supply, the above site states that in the USA ants went down 180ft for water.

I can only quote what the man said about depths ect, but he did look as though hed been doing this all his working life locally, so he must know the area and ground stratas and his anthills ect.

[chownah]

Lickey,

Interesting site! I'm not convinced yet but it is some evidence pointing to the possibility. I just can't trust someone who writes, "I staked the claim with my 38 Smith & Wesson."....and who talks about Navajo jewelry makers soaking their stones in urine because urine contains ammonia which darkens the color...and how tourists then wear this next to their skin as if it was yukkie!! If ammonia does turn stones dark I'm sure the Navajo jewelry makers know and buy household ammonia just like you or I would.....but of coures I could be wrong...it just seems tooooo colorful....and navajo rug dealers can be a shade lot as well....reminds me of people who talk about trecking and visiting villages in Thailand where the people have never seen foreigners....just a bit tooooo colorful if you know what I mean.

Also it seems to me that he does not actually say that ants went down 180 ft to get water. Here is what is written:

"The insects in West's area mined passages down to water, carrying the debris back up to the surface. The water table was at 180 feet."

The author also indicates later in the article that ants don't necessarily need to go down to the water table to get adequate moisture for their needs when he wrote (while discussing another location):

"we sampled a dozen anthills for fire assay. There were wells down to water several hundred feet nearby, but I'm sure the ants needed to go only ten or twenty feet to find enough year-round moisture to suit their needs."

And....this last quote clearly indicates that at least in some areas the existence of anthills does not indicate that water will be close to the surface....only deep enough to get what they need.

Now in the area where you live it might be true that a termite mound would indicate the presence of water near the surface....I don't know....I'm still sceptical. If a well driller knows that water is at a certain depth typically then he can make up a good story as to why he can get water at a certain depth and it might be just what is needed to interest a prospective customer...maybe not...maybe I just have an overactive imagination....maybe both. A good test for this is to drill a well at the mound an then drill one 10 metres away and compare results....but of course its unrealistic to think about spending twice the money just to find out...consider this just a thought exercise.

Anyway, I'm still keeping an open mind about this and I'm sort of hoping that someone will come up with another website with some more information about this......maybe I'll take a look myself later.

Thanks for the link....a very interesting read.

Chownah

[Gary A]

The guy indeed did get the ground plowed up. My wife had one tree (what kind ??) that she insisted the guy NOT tear out. I looked at it today and the leaves were all shriveled and brown from the burn off. I have no idea if it will live or not. I'd say it has had it but it is still standing and time will tell if it will live or not. I think we will go ahead with a pond and a bore hole where the termite mound is to keep the pond topped off it is doesn't want to hold water. It's only money.

[Maizefarmer]

http://www.mine-engineer.com/mining/anthill.htm

Quite right MF, as the above site shows, Having just questioned mrs about the water, the man said 10 mtrs would be water, 25 mtrs and he would gaurantee year round supply, the above site states that in the USA ants went down 180ft for water.

I can only quote what the man said about depths ect, but he did look as though hed been doing this all his working life locally, so he must know the area and ground stratas and his anthills ect.

In Africa there are examples in which they have gone down close on 500feet - and the mound stands close on 20 feet high - some been colonised continualy for over 100years!! Quite an amazing insect!

[JungleBiker]

We have had ten rai for a couple of years and have done nothing with it. I am now determined to grow soybeans if it cost me twice as much as they are worth.

Hi Gary,

Why lose money when you could make a very good profit? Why not grow agarwood trees? I suggest this first year you should plant stylo (a legume forage crop - plant 1kg of seed per rai, at price about 80 - 100 baht/kg for the seed) and if possible later on you could charge some local livestock farmers for cutting the stylo to feed their animals. Main purpose of the stylo though would be to produce nitrogen and surpress noxious weeds. Also this rainy season, you should plant some Acacia mangium trees, these will provide shade for the agarwood seedlings that you could plant next rainy season (2008). I'd be interested to do a deal with you whereby I provide technical advice on how to manage the agarwood trees and, if you like, perhaps share some of the investment costs in return for a share of the agarwood trees when they are harvested. (We can discuss details via private message or e-mail). However, it's important that the land is not too high above sea level (do you get frost?), or susceptible to flooding and that the land is located next to your house so that you can be sure nobody tries to steal your trees when you're not looking. Do you have a fence around the land to prevent livestock grazing your crops/trees?

JB.

[Loom]

We have had ten rai for a couple of years and have done nothing with it. I am now determined to grow soybeans if it cost me twice as much as they are worth.

Hi Gary,

Why lose money when you could make a very good profit? Why not grow agarwood trees? I suggest this first year you should plant stylo (a legume forage crop - plant 1kg of seed per rai, at price about 80 - 100 baht/kg for the seed) and if possible later on you could charge some local livestock farmers for cutting the stylo to feed their animals. Main purpose of the stylo though would be to produce nitrogen and surpress noxious weeds. Also this rainy season, you should plant some Acacia mangium trees, these will provide shade for the agarwood seedlings that you could plant next rainy season (2008). I'd be interested to do a deal with you whereby I provide technical advice on how to manage the agarwood trees and, if you like, perhaps share some of the investment costs in return for a share of the agarwood trees when they are harvested. (We can discuss details via private message or e-mail). However, it's important that the land is not too high above sea level (do you get frost?), or susceptible to flooding and that the land is located next to your house so that you can be sure nobody tries to steal your trees when you're not looking. Do you have a fence around the land to prevent livestock grazing your crops/trees?

JB.

Agarwood does look pretty interesting compared to soybeans. According to Office Agricultural Economics statistics in recent years the average yield/rai from soybeans is about 230kgs and selling prices are around Bt10/kg for a not too impressive gross of Bt2,300/rai. According to JB’s estimates a treated agarwood tree is worth $250 after 7-8 years with ~150 trees per rai. That’s a gross value of some Bt400,000 per rai in today’s money (present value). I’m not looking at costs and they might be higher for soybeans since you’d be replanting at least once a year.

I’m wondering if today’s confidence in agarwood economics is misplaced, however. Touchwood is looking at having 6m trees under management in Thailand in another 4 years, that could push down pricing and spoil the economics out another 10-15 years or so. That's a long time, but I wonder if anyone has seen any estimates for agarwood consumption (number of trees) on an annual basis?