Gulf Of Thailand Won't Rise With Global Warming, Expert Claims

[Tony Clifton]

And what about GREENland (Green for gras) and FINland (Fin for wine). These names already suggest a much warmer climate a very long time ago.

The name Greenland was a shameful attempt to get the country colonised by Norse settlers simply by giving it a good name.

Finland probably derives from a Germanic word, 'finnr', meaning wanderer and was applied to the nomadic farmers who occupied alot of the area now known as Finland.

I remember reading archaeological dig reports that mentioned multiple layers of common house flies found at many sites suggesting there was indeed much warmer climate there some time ago.

[brahmburgers]

Could it be that the land levels are rising rather than the sea level reducing? Where is the evidence to support either?

Yes it could. Bangkok is sinking at a fast rate due to being built on a swamp, remember that when you hear global warming scare stories. It will flood. It is not because of global warming.

Another example, the UK is tipping to the east (the west is rising). This is due to springback effect following the retreat of glaciers from the last ice-age.

I Global warming will be a very significant factor, as will Bkk's subsidence . Bkk is also flood prone because infrastructure is poor. Additional reasons are high tides, especially when coupled with large storms.

Bkk city fathers should have the foresight to relocate to higher ground. Better, even, than that would be to divvy Bkk in to 3 or four cities: each focusing on the following: administration, universities, manufacturing, icons (yes, religious and royal icons can be moved - they did it in Egypt with much heavier Luxor monuments).

Bangkok will likely become severely flooded within the next 15 years.

Every time I do a search for manufacturing firms and/or parts for building things, all the manufacturers are located in Bangkok. It's as though no manufacturers have a modicum of creativity to locate elsewhere in Thailand. It's as though every business must have a Bangkok address or it can't be taken seriously. It's waaaaaay too monolithic way of thinking.

[Journalist]

He could have a point. Plus the glaciers are in the Antarctic. Well south of Thailand.

Whats the water going to do, flow uphill? Defy gravity?

No, all the meltwater will gravitate to the bottom of the planet.

[Tony Clifton]

He could have a point. Plus the glaciers are in the Antarctic. Well south of Thailand.

Whats the water going to do, flow uphill? Defy gravity?

No, all the meltwater will gravitate to the bottom of the planet.

Everything is drawn towards the center of the Earth, not towards the bottom.

With your new laws of physics, there wouldn`t be a drop of water in the Arctic since it would all drop down to the Antarctic.

So you really are a journalist and not a physics professor.

[ding]

Recent forecasts by the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predict a 40 centimetre rise in sea levels by the end of the century will cause flooding for up to 94 million Asians living in coastal areas, may not apply to the Gulf of Thailand, according to Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology.

'The climate change panel's projection was wrongly accepted to apply to the Gulf of Thailand,' Suphat told The Nation newspaper. 'We are too far from melting glaciers or ice sheets.'

Suphat added that, in fact, recent research shows that the average sea levels along some coastal provinces on the gulf have declined 0.3 to 0.6 centrimetres over the past eight years.

The hydrologist, now an employee of Team Consulting Engineering, called on the public not to panic over the IPCC findings.

LaoPo

Here is who this hydrologist gets money from now:

TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co., Ltd.

ATT Consultants Co., Ltd.

TEAM Energy Management Co., Ltd.

Energy and Environmental Management Co., Ltd.

Geotechnical and Foundation Engineering Co., Ltd.

SQ Architects and Planners Co., Ltd.

Management Solutions International Co., Ltd.

Daoreuk Communications Co., Ltd.

TCG Printing Co, Ltd.

Modern Management and Technology Co., Ltd.

TEAM Logistics and Transport Co., Ltd.

[LaoPo]

The hydrologist, now an employee of Team Consulting Engineering, called on the public not to panic over the IPCC findings.

LaoPo

Here is who this hydrologist gets money from now:

TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co., Ltd.

ATT Consultants Co., Ltd.

TEAM Energy Management Co., Ltd.

Energy and Environmental Management Co., Ltd.

Geotechnical and Foundation Engineering Co., Ltd.

SQ Architects and Planners Co., Ltd.

Management Solutions International Co., Ltd.

Daoreuk Communications Co., Ltd.

TCG Printing Co, Ltd.

Modern Management and Technology Co., Ltd.

TEAM Logistics and Transport Co., Ltd.

Any sources where you found this information ? ...paid by 11 companies......

LaoPo

Edited September 13, 2008 by LaoPo

[mahtin]

Ruined Ruins

All over the globe, temples, ancient settlements and other artifacts stand as monuments to civilizations past that until now have withstood the tests of time. But the immediate effects of global warming may finally do them in. Rising seas and more extreme weather have the potential to damage irreplaceable sites. Floods attributed to global warming have already damaged a 600-year-old site, Sukhothai, which was once the capital of a Thai kingdom.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/top..._results-1.html

[Mosha]

Recent forecasts by the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predict a 40 centimetre rise in sea levels by the end of the century will cause flooding for up to 94 million Asians living in coastal areas, may not apply to the Gulf of Thailand, according to Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology.

'The climate change panel's projection was wrongly accepted to apply to the Gulf of Thailand,' Suphat told The Nation newspaper. 'We are too far from melting glaciers or ice sheets.'

Suphat added that, in fact, recent research shows that the average sea levels along some coastal provinces on the gulf have declined 0.3 to 0.6 centrimetres over the past eight years.

The hydrologist, now an employee of Team Consulting Engineering, called on the public not to panic over the IPCC findings.

LaoPo

Here is who this hydrologist gets money from now:

TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co., Ltd.

ATT Consultants Co., Ltd.

TEAM Energy Management Co., Ltd.

Energy and Environmental Management Co., Ltd.

Geotechnical and Foundation Engineering Co., Ltd.

SQ Architects and Planners Co., Ltd.

Management Solutions International Co., Ltd.

Daoreuk Communications Co., Ltd.

TCG Printing Co, Ltd.

Modern Management and Technology Co., Ltd.

TEAM Logistics and Transport Co., Ltd.

The only thing wrong with this report is the timing. Last year it was said the Northpole would be ice free by the middle of this century. Now they say within 10 years. Indeed a South African, (I believe) is attempting to paddle a canoe to the North Pole. He must be the only adventurer in history to hope he fails due to the ice.

[Spee]

"Floods attributed to global warming have already damaged a 600-year-old site, Sukhothai, which was once the capital of a Thai kingdom."

http://www.livescience.com/environment/top..._results-1.html

Yet another chicken-little claim of little substance and vitually no scientific proof. Tell me, which of the many wanna-be global warming experts out there can provide evidence to distinguish floods supposedly caused by "global warming" and floods occurred simply because of normal seasonal rains. This kind of nonsensical crap is typical of the people who want to brainwash others and others who open their minds up to be brainwashed.

[Thaddeus]

All over the globe, temples, ancient settlements and other artifacts stand as monuments to civilizations past that until now have withstood the tests of time.

A few thousand years can hardly be called 'a test of time' in planetary terms.

[ding]

The hydrologist, now an employee of Team Consulting Engineering, called on the public not to panic over the IPCC findings.

LaoPo

Here is who this hydrologist gets money from now:

TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co., Ltd.

ATT Consultants Co., Ltd.

TEAM Energy Management Co., Ltd.

Energy and Environmental Management Co., Ltd.

Geotechnical and Foundation Engineering Co., Ltd.

SQ Architects and Planners Co., Ltd.

Management Solutions International Co., Ltd.

Daoreuk Communications Co., Ltd.

TCG Printing Co, Ltd.

Modern Management and Technology Co., Ltd.

TEAM Logistics and Transport Co., Ltd.

Any sources where you found this information ? ...paid by 11 companies......

LaoPo

Yep, their own website:

Team Consulting Engineering

http://www.teamgroup.co.th/en/about_tgc.php

Scroll down a bit. Not meaning to be a smart-arse at all either. Just seems there's always something like this where climate change denial is in the wind.

[AmeriThai]

Whats the water going to do, flow uphill? Defy gravity?

No, water doesn't defy gravity. But it does rise up into the atmosphere by the process of evaporation and returns again to the surface in the form of percipitation. The planet is very active and is constantly recycling itself.

[brahmburgers]

He could have a point. Plus the glaciers are in the Antarctic. Well south of Thailand.

Whats the water going to do, flow uphill? Defy gravity?

No, all the meltwater will gravitate to the bottom of the planet.

Everything is drawn towards the center of the Earth, not towards the bottom.

With your new laws of physics, there wouldn`t be a drop of water in the Arctic since it would all drop down to the Antarctic.

So you really are a journalist and not a physics professor.

Tony, you missed Journalists's sarcasm.

[animatic]

One must wonder, which is worst:

Chicken Little or the Ostrich With Head Buried?

Anecdotal evidence

coupled with a not insubstantial body of respected scientists

a ) most with no finacial axe to grind,

b ) a few with links to small renewable energy start ups

c ) things any thinking person can see for themselves

vs

a different body of respected scientists, but coupled with

a ) large groups of the short sighted or not caring

b ) large groups with clear biases for economic reasons

c ) vested interest with great loads of money to be lost

investing in counter advertising for their own short term ends.

If you are not concerned you are an ostrich

if you are,

the percentage of Little Chickens is not too high on this side.

I built over 100m up for a reason, and the view was only part of it.

Long term outlook too.

That the guy can even THINK to kayak that far up, is pretty telling an indictment.

[Bangyai]

There was a programme on Thai t.v. a few days ago with an ' expert ' on global warming and rising sea levels who reckoned that if you want a sea view condo in about 15 years time you should be looking to move to Saraburi which will be Thailands new beachfront.

[ThaiEye]

Water levels have risen dramatically in some parts of the Gulf of Thailand and totally engulfed villages. This website says it all:

Temple in the Sea

[LaoPo]

There was a programme on Thai t.v. a few days ago with an ' expert ' on global warming and rising sea levels who reckoned that if you want a sea view condo in about 15 years time you should be looking to move to Saraburi which will be Thailands new beachfront.

...Or settle on the 9th or 10th floor; that will be OK.

LaoPo

[AmeriThai]

There was a programme on Thai t.v. a few days ago with an ' expert ' on global warming and rising sea levels who reckoned that if you want a sea view condo in about 15 years time you should be looking to move to Saraburi which will be Thailands new beachfront.

That's great to know! We have a house in the province of Sarsaburi. I'm looking forward to it being considered a luxury beach resort.

[Khun Jean]

Water levels have risen dramatically in some parts of the Gulf of Thailand and totally engulfed villages. This website says it all:

Temple in the Sea

Strange conclusion. Because a temple is surrounded by water does not mean it is caused by rising sea levels. And you are right that website says it all.

When you read it it says that it is caused by land erosion. The water in the Gulf of Thailand has not risen at all.

[LaoPo]

Water levels have risen dramatically in some parts of the Gulf of Thailand and totally engulfed villages. This website says it all:

Temple in the Sea

Strange conclusion. Because a temple is surrounded by water does not mean it is caused by rising sea levels. And you are right that website says it all.

When you read it it says that it is caused by land erosion. The water in the Gulf of Thailand has not risen at all.

That's very strange indeed.

That would mean that water levels in let's say Bangkok area or Pattaya are different (lower or higher) than in Hua Hin or Koh Samui....

hmmm....

LaoPo

[brahmburgers]

many indications show water levels in the oceans rising in the coming years. A rise of, let's say, half cm average per year may seem small, but coupled with tidal surges and extreme weather, the cumulative effect is dire. Some can say the typhoon which hit Southern Burma or the Katrina & Ike hurricanes in the past couple years are part of nature's regular patterns, but meteorologists generally claim they're storms of historical proportions.

I suspect the minority who vociferously deny rising sea levels are people who also have vested interests in sea levels staying as they are. An example: people with beach-front property for residence and/or business.

Expect to see the headline in the next 5 years: Major typhoon swamps Bangkok. Most of city under 1.5 meters of water.

I don't say that as an alarmist, but rather as a pragmatist looking objectively at data and trends. The type of extreme weather that hit southern Burma recently - could hit a bit further east next time. The Gulf of Thailand (particularly its apex; The Bight of Thailand) would serve as a fine funnel which would amplify severe weather heading toward Bangkok. Bangkok's undisputed sinking doesn't help in the equation. ....and building drainages and levees are band-aid solutions at best.

[LaoPo]

many indications show water levels in the oceans rising in the coming years. A rise of, let's say, half cm average per year may seem small, but coupled with tidal surges and extreme weather, the cumulative effect is dire. Some can say the typhoon which hit Southern Burma or the Katrina & Ike hurricanes in the past couple years are part of nature's regular patterns, but meteorologists generally claim they're storms of historical proportions.

I suspect the minority who vociferously deny rising sea levels are people who also have vested interests in sea levels staying as they are. An example: people with beach-front property for residence and/or business.

Expect to see the headline in the next 5 years: Major typhoon swamps Bangkok. Most of city under 1.5 meters of water.

I don't say that as an alarmist, but rather as a pragmatist looking objectively at data and trends. The type of extreme weather that hit southern Burma recently - could hit a bit further east next time. The Gulf of Thailand (particularly its apex; The Bight of Thailand) would serve as a fine funnel which would amplify severe weather heading toward Bangkok. Bangkok's undisputed sinking doesn't help in the equation. ....and building drainages and levees are band-aid solutions at best.

I agree with you. A long time ago (forgot the year) I was walking till my waist in water in Bangkok and that was when I left the factory at midnight...scary, dark and wet...

If one has a good look at the Gulf of Thailand you can see that especially the part where Bangkok is, is quite narrow in comparison with the larger part of the Gulf.

A full moon, together with a super storm or typhoon, bending towards Bangkok could create the worst disaster Thailand has ever faced.

Not IF, but WHEN is the point, and Bangkok, but also the entire coastal Pattaya-and-south area is not prepared for such a disaster; simple as that. Maybe even Cha Am and Hua Hin could be severely hit.

Personally I wouldn't want to live in a beach front bungalow; I did once, in a small hut more than 30 years ago on Patong Beach/Phuket; I was just plain lucky the Tsunami didn't struck back then.

LaoP

[dumball]

many indications show water levels in the oceans rising in the coming years. A rise of, let's say, half cm average per year may seem small, but coupled with tidal surges and extreme weather, the cumulative effect is dire. Some can say the typhoon which hit Southern Burma or the Katrina & Ike hurricanes in the past couple years are part of nature's regular patterns, but meteorologists generally claim they're storms of historical proportions.

I suspect the minority who vociferously deny rising sea levels are people who also have vested interests in sea levels staying as they are. An example: people with beach-front property for residence and/or business.

Expect to see the headline in the next 5 years: Major typhoon swamps Bangkok. Most of city under 1.5 meters of water.

I don't say that as an alarmist, but rather as a pragmatist looking objectively at data and trends. The type of extreme weather that hit southern Burma recently - could hit a bit further east next time. The Gulf of Thailand (particularly its apex; The Bight of Thailand) would serve as a fine funnel which would amplify severe weather heading toward Bangkok. Bangkok's undisputed sinking doesn't help in the equation. ....and building drainages and levees are band-aid solutions at best.

The question(result) of the temple being SURROUNDED by water is one thing , that was caused by soil erosion , but flooding or inundatiion surely has to do more with either the temple sinking or water levels having risen , why did the people move their house ?

[VegasVic]

There was a programme on Thai t.v. a few days ago with an ' expert ' on global warming and rising sea levels who reckoned that if you want a sea view condo in about 15 years time you should be looking to move to Saraburi which will be Thailands new beachfront.

Very interesting. I guess my wifes land in Wang Nam Kao will have not only beautiful mountain views but sea views as well, in the not too distant future

[VegasVic]

many indications show water levels in the oceans rising in the coming years. A rise of, let's say, half cm average per year may seem small, but coupled with tidal surges and extreme weather, the cumulative effect is dire. Some can say the typhoon which hit Southern Burma or the Katrina & Ike hurricanes in the past couple years are part of nature's regular patterns, but meteorologists generally claim they're storms of historical proportions.

I suspect the minority who vociferously deny rising sea levels are people who also have vested interests in sea levels staying as they are. An example: people with beach-front property for residence and/or business.

Expect to see the headline in the next 5 years: Major typhoon swamps Bangkok. Most of city under 1.5 meters of water.

I don't say that as an alarmist, but rather as a pragmatist looking objectively at data and trends. The type of extreme weather that hit southern Burma recently - could hit a bit further east next time. The Gulf of Thailand (particularly its apex; The Bight of Thailand) would serve as a fine funnel which would amplify severe weather heading toward Bangkok. Bangkok's undisputed sinking doesn't help in the equation. ....and building drainages and levees are band-aid solutions at best.

At this point in time the vast majority of the scientific world believes that there is global warming, the evidence is overwehlming. Where I think most differ is the cause. There is no doubt that man has added to the CO2 levels ove the past 150 years, but there is more CO2 released from the worlds oceans (via trapped methane) by a factor of 10x than man creates. Humankind has undoubtedly exacerbated this problem but it has not caused it as the far left greenies would have you believe. The greenies think that they can save the planet, but in reality given a best case scenario they can just hope to slow the CO2 rise a bit. Your post is spot on as to what we will notice in our lifetime, larger and more frquent typhoons and hurricanes and most notably much higher storm surges. I don't think that Saraburi will be oceanfront property (sorry ), but the potential for low lying coastal cities in Thailand and around the globe to face sever flooding is very real.

[OlRedEyes]

many indications show water levels in the oceans rising in the coming years. A rise of, let's say, half cm average per year may seem small, but coupled with tidal surges and extreme weather, the cumulative effect is dire. Some can say the typhoon which hit Southern Burma or the Katrina & Ike hurricanes in the past couple years are part of nature's regular patterns, but meteorologists generally claim they're storms of historical proportions.

I suspect the minority who vociferously deny rising sea levels are people who also have vested interests in sea levels staying as they are. An example: people with beach-front property for residence and/or business.

Expect to see the headline in the next 5 years: Major typhoon swamps Bangkok. Most of city under 1.5 meters of water.

I don't say that as an alarmist, but rather as a pragmatist looking objectively at data and trends. The type of extreme weather that hit southern Burma recently - could hit a bit further east next time. The Gulf of Thailand (particularly its apex; The Bight of Thailand) would serve as a fine funnel which would amplify severe weather heading toward Bangkok. Bangkok's undisputed sinking doesn't help in the equation. ....and building drainages and levees are band-aid solutions at best.

At this point in time the vast majority of the scientific world believes that there is global warming, the evidence is overwehlming. Where I think most differ is the cause. There is no doubt that man has added to the CO2 levels ove the past 150 years, but there is more CO2 released from the worlds oceans (via trapped methane) by a factor of 10x than man creates. Humankind has undoubtedly exacerbated this problem but it has not caused it as the far left greenies would have you believe. The greenies think that they can save the planet, but in reality given a best case scenario they can just hope to slow the CO2 rise a bit. Your post is spot on as to what we will notice in our lifetime, larger and more frquent typhoons and hurricanes and most notably much higher storm surges. I don't think that Saraburi will be oceanfront property (sorry ), but the potential for low lying coastal cities in Thailand and around the globe to face sever flooding is very real.

The speed of change, compared to historical data, is the major indicator that we are to blame. Personally I believe it is actually totally underestimated. This is borne out by the fact that the report presented to the UN had to be very conservative, by the scientist's own admission, to be accepted. Lately many scientists are acknowledging that change is occurring at a *much* faster pace than previously thought.

The seas did not produce CO2, they are a CO2 sink. It is only once they warm up, that CO2 will be released from them. This apparently has started to happen. Same with permafrost.

I don't believe we can do much to slow or reverse any change. It's a train we aint gonna stop. But let's at least stop trying to feel good by fooling ourselves that it's not our fault. That has been slowing down efforts to at least try to make a difference for decades now.

Yeesh, even at the lowest level of understanding - as a child 50 years ago I looked at how we were raping this earth and pouring our crap into the atmosphere - and we've gotten much better at it since then - and wondered how anybody can think it'll all be ok in the long term. But thinking really is not the human's best point is it. Fooling ourselves is. That's why religion is so popular.

S_hitting on your own doorstep comes to mind.

Let's at least stand up above our own greed and acknowledge we messed up. Unfortunately most won't. They will simply whine about how tough life is becoming and try to deflect any blame. Same same the financial markets.

The third world, rightly, claims that they were not responsible. But does anyone believe that given the chance, they'd have done things any different? The only reason they did not contribute much to all this was the lack of opportunity, not being any better than anyone else. And they're doing a dam_n good job of catching up, while whining.

Constant population and economic growth on a finite planet - what a stupid concept.

Edited September 16, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[VegasVic]

many indications show water levels in the oceans rising in the coming years. A rise of, let's say, half cm average per year may seem small, but coupled with tidal surges and extreme weather, the cumulative effect is dire. Some can say the typhoon which hit Southern Burma or the Katrina & Ike hurricanes in the past couple years are part of nature's regular patterns, but meteorologists generally claim they're storms of historical proportions.

I suspect the minority who vociferously deny rising sea levels are people who also have vested interests in sea levels staying as they are. An example: people with beach-front property for residence and/or business.

Expect to see the headline in the next 5 years: Major typhoon swamps Bangkok. Most of city under 1.5 meters of water.

I don't say that as an alarmist, but rather as a pragmatist looking objectively at data and trends. The type of extreme weather that hit southern Burma recently - could hit a bit further east next time. The Gulf of Thailand (particularly its apex; The Bight of Thailand) would serve as a fine funnel which would amplify severe weather heading toward Bangkok. Bangkok's undisputed sinking doesn't help in the equation. ....and building drainages and levees are band-aid solutions at best.

At this point in time the vast majority of the scientific world believes that there is global warming, the evidence is overwehlming. Where I think most differ is the cause. There is no doubt that man has added to the CO2 levels ove the past 150 years, but there is more CO2 released from the worlds oceans (via trapped methane) by a factor of 10x than man creates. Humankind has undoubtedly exacerbated this problem but it has not caused it as the far left greenies would have you believe. The greenies think that they can save the planet, but in reality given a best case scenario they can just hope to slow the CO2 rise a bit. Your post is spot on as to what we will notice in our lifetime, larger and more frquent typhoons and hurricanes and most notably much higher storm surges. I don't think that Saraburi will be oceanfront property (sorry ), but the potential for low lying coastal cities in Thailand and around the globe to face sever flooding is very real.

The speed of change, compared to historical data, is the major indicator that we are to blame. Personally I believe it is actually totally underestimated. This is borne out by the fact that the report presented to the UN had to be very conservative, by the scientist's own admission, to be accepted. Lately many scientists are acknowledging that change is occurring at a *much* faster pace than previously thought.

The seas did not produce CO2, they are a CO2 sink. It is only once they warm up, that CO2 will be released from them. This apparently has started to happen. Same with permafrost.

I don't believe we can do much to slow or reverse any change. It's a train we aint gonna stop. But let's at least stop trying to feel good by fooling ourselves that it's not our fault. That has been slowing down efforts to at least try to make a difference for decades now.

Yeesh, even at the lowest level of understanding - as a child 50 years ago I looked at how we were raping this earth and pouring our crap into the atmosphere - and we've gotten much better at it since then - and wondered how anybody can think it'll all be ok in the long term. But thinking really is not the human's best point is it. Fooling ourselves is. That's why religion is so popular.

S_hitting on your own doorstep comes to mind.

Let's at least stand up above our own greed and acknowledge we messed up. Unfortunately most won't. They will simply whine about how tough life is becoming and try to deflect any blame. Same same the financial markets.

The third world, rightly, claims that they were not responsible. But does anyone believe that given the chance, they'd have done things any different? The only reason they did not contribute much to all this was the lack of opportunity, not being any better than anyone else. And they're doing a dam_n good job of catching up, while whining.

Constant population and economic growth on a finite planet - what a stupid concept.

"S_itting on your own doorstep comes to mind" Interesting concept, I wonder if there are any bureacrats in the communist Chinese government paying attention to this thread

[teatree]

The most impressive act in this whole man made global warming lie is the way they have got intelligent people believing that CO2 is some kind of toxic waste, when in fact it is one of the foundations of life itself along with oxygen, water and light. Carbon MONoxide and other by-products produced when fossil fuels are burnt are the real enemy to the environment.

What about all the hype about an 'iceless' arctic this summer? Well, data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) at the University of Colorado Boulder clearly shows the level of ice last month UP 13% from last year, and another study from The University of Illinois Cryosphere Today project shows a 30% increase. Reduced solar output = global cooling - last August was almost the 1st August in a century not to have any recorded sun spots after one single spot was recorded near the end of the month.

And when you hear reports of 'record ice loss' you have to bear in mind that the records of ice taken at the poles only go back 29 years - 'RECORD ICE LOSS' sounds a lot scarier than 'LEAST AMOUNT OF ICE FOR 29 YEARS' And in fact there is a 'record HIGH' level of ice at the Antarctic, more ice growth in fact than there is ice loss at the Arctic. But sshhhhh you don't hear about that on CNN or BBC, people might start to question the whole man made global warming scam.

Edited September 16, 2008 by teatree

[londonthai]

no, they don't, as much as the other governments, including the usa one, who did not sign the kyoto agreement. And it's not chinese economy or any other second world country using the most energy and resources per head, but the very usa and the west. As to pollution they shifted s*it from the heavy industry into some poorer countries doorsteps and are literaly shifting their own s*it in a form of rubbish and toxic wastes to china and africa.

who and why are running the glabal warming scam? Scientists? Media? Ecologists? Scams are the domain of the governments, heavy industry connected with the military industry and the energy/oil industries - all for profit and power

[brahmburgers]

The most impressive act in this whole man made global warming lie is the way they have got intelligent people believing that CO2 is some kind of toxic waste, when in fact it is one of the foundations of life itself along with oxygen, water and light. Carbon MONoxide and other by-products produced when fossil fuels are burnt are the real enemy to the environment.

What about all the hype about an 'iceless' arctic this summer? Well, data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) at the University of Colorado Boulder clearly shows the level of ice last month UP 13% from last year, and another study from The University of Illinois Cryosphere Today project shows a 30% increase. Reduced solar output = global cooling - last August was almost the 1st August in a century not to have any recorded sun spots after one single spot was recorded near the end of the month.

And when you hear reports of 'record ice loss' you have to bear in mind that the records of ice taken at the poles only go back 29 years - 'RECORD ICE LOSS' sounds a lot scarier than 'LEAST AMOUNT OF ICE FOR 29 YEARS' And in fact there is a 'record HIGH' level of ice at the Antarctic, more ice growth in fact than there is ice loss at the Arctic. But sshhhhh you don't hear about that on CNN or BBC, people might start to question the whole man made global warming scam.

I'm curious to know where you get your data from. BTW, sun spots don't play a part in this debate.

I've seen maps of the Arctic region showing decreasing amounts of ice each year. The NW passage (north of Canada) has become ice free for the 1st time in recorded history. The largest icebergs in history are calving off in the Antarctic. A study of major glaciers worldwide showed 16 of 17 are dramatically decreasing, year by year. Scores of ski resorts are going out of business - unless able to afford snow-making machines for the winter months. Lakes are showing up in Greenland for the first time. BTW, they're beautiful blue shallow striated shaped, yet they're lakes nonetheless. When massive amounts of ice and snow are melting each year - not getting replaced, you can be safe in assuming this planet is getting warmer.

Regardless of how much man-made CO2 is contributing to global warming - creating less of the stuff has many other benefits.

Plants don't need more CO2, they have plenty enough already. One of the best things the Global Warming debate has done is instilled (particularly in younger generations) the importance of being environmentally responsible. I was at the first Earth Day celebration, in Washington D.C., April 21 1970. Coretta King was there, as were Rennie Davis (Chicago 8), Dick Gregory, are a bunch of other great Americans. The Chambers Brothers capped it off with a stellar performance that shook the back windows of the White House, where tricky Dick Nixon was holed up, trying to watch the Redskins/Dallas football game undisturbed.

I'm beyond being a tree-hugger, I'm a leaf caresser. The amount of senseless waste of resources - everywhere you look - is mind-numbing. ok, throw a pail of water on me, I got to cool off. BB