Cambodia And Vietnam: Bad Alternatives

[JR Texas]

Who is to blame? Americans, Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodians. Who did most of the killing? Very young and ignorant Cambodians that had been blinded by a psychopathic mass murderer. Did I miss something?

This discussion reminds me a scene from a Clint Eastwood movie. Eastwood's character was hired to murder someone. He took on a young partner who had never killed any other person. The young guy finally shot a man in a toilet (first kill). Later Eastwood's character and the young man were talking to each other underneath a tree at the top of a hill. The young man was upset and said, "well.......he had it coming, right? I mean, he had it coming' right?" At that point Eastwood looked down at him and said, "Kid, we all got it coming."

Now, what is the subject of this thread: Cambodia and Vietnam: Bad Alternatives to Thailand?

This way of thinking is problably the sole reason that most people in the world are not really fond of people from the land of hamburgers. I mean to say: they had it coming! What about 9/11, you had it coming?

I am out of this discussion!

JR Texas: To KireB: I did not mean that "THEY had it coming" and never said that (read again). I meant that WE all have blood on our hands.........that we all have it coming; that many countries were responsible for the genocide.

I was not referring to the actual victims of genocide........they did not deserve what happened to them. What happened in Cambodia was horrible beyond imagination.

I was also thinking about human beings and what we do to each other and the planet and the quality of life of future generations (outside of the context of Cambodia)......in that sense, we all have it coming.

[BKKstan]

What income level would allow for a comfortable family life in Cambodia?Nightlife ,very little and no P4p action.Are their decent secure A/C condos or house available?How would you rate the crime against foreigners as compared to Thailand.Do they have decent International educational institutions ?

[cooL_guY_corY]

you actually rate a country by whether you can purchase sex or not ? lol

[astral]

as much as i enjoyed cambodia,i'm not to sure about the police (paying bribes for half made up offences),or the medical care if i got seriously ill,but i guess its adventure.

At age 60, I am passed the "adventure" stage, so I do not consider Vietnam or Cambodia as viable options.

Just looking for retirement in a stable country with a reasonable cost of living

and a decent climate.

IMHO Thailand no longer meets those requirements,

Malaysia keeps moving the goal posts for long term retirement visas.

Where next??

[Ulysses G.]

most people in the world are not really fond of people from the land of hamburgers.

An ignorant statement indeed!

[KireB]

most people in the world are not really fond of people from the land of hamburgers.

An ignorant statement indeed!

Well open your eyes mate! The census in world is very negative one especially since your cowboy war-president took/stole control.

[Ulysses G.]

most people in the world are not really fond of people from the land of hamburgers.

An ignorant statement indeed!

Well open your eyes mate! The census in world is very negative one especially since your cowboy war-president took/stole control.

Most intelligent people can easily differentiate between the actions of a Government and the people of a particular country. Unfortunately, many loud-mouthed louts can't tell the difference.

[KireB]

most people in the world are not really fond of people from the land of hamburgers.

An ignorant statement indeed!

Well open your eyes mate! The census in world is very negative one especially since your cowboy war-president took/stole control.

Most intelligent people can easily differentiate between the actions of a Government and the people of a particular country. Unfortunately, many loud-mouthed louts can't tell the difference.

I tought that it's the people that elect their governments! You have a democracy in the States, don't you!

[KhunMarco]

I tought that it's the people that elect their governments! You have a democracy in the States, don't you!

They had one before 9-11 , the patriot act actually erased all that. This is not an attack directed to the American people, it's just an irrefutable fact. But the majority of them seemed to be ok with it (see 2004 elections), thus I don't have a problem, I don't live in the USA, even though their internal policy affects the whole world "somehow".

Going back to the topic, from my limited research, Vietnam wins so far as a viable alternative.

[JR Texas]

I tought that it's the people that elect their governments! You have a democracy in the States, don't you!

They had one before 9-11 , the patriot act actually erased all that. This is not an attack directed to the American people, it's just an irrefutable fact. But the majority of them seemed to be ok with it (see 2004 elections), thus I don't have a problem, I don't live in the USA, even though their internal policy affects the whole world "somehow".

Going back to the topic, from my limited research, Vietnam wins so far as a viable alternative.

JR Texas: Two people (recent posts) actually tried to get the discussion back on track and were quickly flamed. One asked about the cost of living and condos and the other mentioned something about medical issues in Cambodia.

Yes, there are a few nice condos in PP (don't remember seeing any good condos in Sihanoukville). You can also rent houses. The cost of living is higher than in Thailand because Cambodia's energy comes from Thailand and the Thais are not doing them any favors. So, everything goes up.

About medical issues. I have thought about it and would never voluntarily go to a hospital in Cambodia (maybe a dentists--the one the people at the US Embassy use in PP). What I would do is return to Thailand for any major medical problems.....the proximity seems to solve this problem.

What is needed is a large number of expats to move to, say, Sihanoukville and start opening businesses and generating money flows in the community. Sihanoukville already has legalized gambling and a beautiful ocean with several undeveloped beaches and a few hotels. It is ripe for development. It is like Pattaya in the late 60s or early 70s but with more potential.

It also has an airstrip that could easily be extended to accomodate larger aircraft........if that happens, loads of tourists might flock in for gambling..........

It is all waiting to happen..........wish it would happen now and rapidly. It would be great for Cambodia and also for a growing number of disgruntled expats that are sick and tired of the way Thailand is treating them--expats that want to live a simple life in Southeast Asia without hassels; expats that want to live with their wives and children without having to worry about "not getting a visa;" expats that want to start small businesses without having to jump through one million crazy hoops, etc.

[Ulysses G.]

I tought that it's the people that elect their governments! You have a democracy in the States, don't you!

We have a Republic in which George W. Bush won the Presidency with less than half the popular vote. I know that it is fashionable to talk sh*t about the current administration, but are all those people who voted against it to be hated too?

[dumspero]

Cambodia- but not good for expats who want to know they can stay for twenty years without being killed, robbed or having their business taken away from them.

KireB- Too bad you can't let the US thing go for a while. Why even hate those who did vote for George Bush? Is it really all so black and white, good guys and bad guys? Geeesh, that's what many of us US citizens hate about our former home, that the crazies on the far right and far left can't see grays or how complicated and ambiguous the world is, let alone how wonderful it is for just that reason. (And you might note that many Irish hate it when foreigners see 'the troubles' in just such simple, black and white terms.)

[Furbie]

See, the problem with being an American today is easy access to knowledge, which unfortunately includes easy access to one-sided knowledge and people who really love to selectively promote information because it falls in line with their view of things – a tactic knows as selective arguments, or cherry picking.

Let's look at it from another side, if American did not step into Vietnam after the French got their ass handed to them, Thailand would have be next – there is no dispute on this – the US and Thai government spent a lot of time and money keeping communism down in Isaan. Nearly the entire road system connecting the upper parts of the country, allowing for the massive agricultural expansion of Thailand during this time was built in fact built with US assistance. What did the French do in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia?

Next, of all the countries that have risen to prominence in the world, the US has the cleanest reputation (be in the Persians, Roman, British, USSR, etc) – our colonial expansion sent resources to our client states; our government did not rob our client states of their resources like very single country before the US. Sure, we had a goal to keep communism out – but this colored the entire Western world at the time – these guys were coming in. In fact, in terms of spheres of influence, Russia (USSR) was the second largest empire the world has ever seen (second only to the British).

Back to client states, ask yourself why the Japanese found no support in the Philippines during WWII, but practically marched right over other colonial territories with the help of locals. Then, despite turning the tide of the war in Europe, and going off to liberate Asia largely by ourselves, we rebuilt Europe with the Marshall Plan.

The fact is, every government makes mistakes – but the American government is far more accountable than nearly every government on the planet. You sit here and condemn the US for the Khmer Rouge (very far fetched by the way), and then Iraq – but isn't it amazing you can do that. You can go to American right now, print a publication that says George Bush is evil and a tyrant, get us out of Iraq, his top cronies in government are robbing the country blind – and surprise, people would listen to you. How many countries can you do that in? Thailand? Vietnam? Cambodia? Until the USSR fell, thanks in major part to US efforts, this was impossible in most of the world.

Even today, the Arab governments are doing far, far worse things in the Middle East than the US government ever did – but better to keep the fanatics focused on Israel and the US than let on to the truth – religion police arresting women for not wearing their head scarf correctly, stoning women, throwing acid in their face for family honor, banning books and films, forcing people to convert to Islam, torture, funding terrorists, killing journalists – and an Iranian government whose sole goal is to disrupt the region to promote its own sense of security (throughout history, the Iranian foreign policy has been one of destabilizing its neighbors, as they continue to do today). Oh yes, the US is the bad guy here, I see it now – we went in to Iraq, and we set up an Iraqi civilian government as soon as possible. Again, I think it was unjustified, but we are certainly not a conquering empire.

The US will survive George Bush, and the next President will do a better job. Was Iraq a horrible mistake – yes, I believe it was – but on the other hand, so was the activities of the Iraqi government. Being the world's only superpower is a s**t job, costing us our future as we spend on the military instead of education, health care and infrastructure improvements; I long for the day someone else takes on the role – but the current alternatives are too scary to think about. It is so easy to condemn, yet so hard to provide an alternative.

[dumspero]

Furbie- Well said!

[JR Texas]

Cambodia- but not good for expats who want to know they can stay for twenty years without being killed, robbed or having their business taken away from them.

KireB- Too bad you can't let the US thing go for a while. Why even hate those who did vote for George Bush? Is it really all so black and white, good guys and bad guys? Geeesh, that's what many of us US citizens hate about our former home, that the crazies on the far right and far left can't see grays or how complicated and ambiguous the world is, let alone how wonderful it is for just that reason. (And you might note that many Irish hate it when foreigners see 'the troubles' in just such simple, black and white terms.)

JR Texas to KireB: Is Cambodia really that different from LOS in terms of corruption and crime?

I see massive corruption in both countries. In terms of crime, I only lived in Cambodia for two months, but I never felt threatened (but I did not walk around acting and looking like a sucker).

My current interest in Cambodia relates to the more relaxed visa/business rules and regulations that make long-stays and business investments easier.

Thailand is looking like the Titanic, going down rapidly while those at the top ignore reality and play happy music on the deck. I want an alternative in case I have to jump ship.

[dumspero]

I think your post was to me, dumspero.

I hear you on wanting an alternative, and maybe I'm wrong. As I said above I haven't even been to Cambodia or Vietnam. My concerns are just based on reading and others' opinions.

My concern about Cambodia is more about its longer term stability, but a lot of people portray it as more wild and violent now than Thailand. Agreed, though, how you act and what you do in a country is a bigger variable. Some people who live in Pattaya say they stay home after dark, which would seem to take most of the danger out of any place.

[Plus]

Cambodians burned Thai embassy and looted Thai businesses just a couple of years ago because of a hearsay, and the govt just looked on.

Political future of Vietnam (and China) is a pretty much unknown territory and is never talked about.

[t.s]

I think your post was to me, dumspero.

I hear you on wanting an alternative, and maybe I'm wrong. As I said above I haven't even been to Cambodia or Vietnam. My concerns are just based on reading and others' opinions.

My concern about Cambodia is more about its longer term stability, but a lot of people portray it as more wild and violent now than Thailand. Agreed, though, how you act and what you do in a country is a bigger variable. Some people who live in Pattaya say they stay home after dark, which would seem to take most of the danger out of any place.

well, that really puts it into perspective and brings Baghdad into the circle of contenders for your retirement dollars. sometimes simple solutions are the best.

not sure if you will find a slapper with the same ease though. nevermind.

[JR Texas]

Cambodians burned Thai embassy and looted Thai businesses just a couple of years ago because of a hearsay, and the govt just looked on.

Political future of Vietnam (and China) is a pretty much unknown territory and is never talked about.

JR Texas: Going off topic a bit, but I did live and work in China. I really liked it. Smart people, great food, low cost of living, beautiful mountains/ocean, much cleaner than Thailand, and smart visa rules/regulations.

Just one example......getting a work permit in China:

I arrived in China on a tourist visa. A representative of the university that hired me took me to get a physical (about US60 dollars), then we went to the local immigration office. I sat down with the immigration officer (very nice and polite). He asked me a couple of questions about working at the university and prior work in China (took 2 minutes). Then he took my passport, medical certificate, photographs, and about US$50 for the work permit. He told me to leave........I did not have to leave the country to get a different visa.

One week later, a university representative came to my apartment and gave me my passport and work permit. I did not have to even return to immigration.

That was it! Very cheap, easy and convenient. This was for 6 months. I did not have to report back to immigration every 90 days. And to get it extended another 6 months, I did not have to report back to immigration........a university representative took care of it.

Now Thailand: I arrived on a tourist visa.....it took a few weeks to get the paperwork in order........had to get a medical exam (small money).......then I was told to leave the country to get a different visa stamp (cost about 7000 baht for trip and visa).....then I was told to report to immigration (several hours away from my actual location) every 90 days and pay 1900 baht each time......CRAZY PROCESS!

Political future of China........very stable now because economy is strong and workforce has been indoctrinated to BELIEVE in the myths of globalization and progress. If the economy falters and the govt. has nothing to keep the young males busy (work projects or wars), all hel_l could break lose. But the young seem so indoctrinated and subject to manipulation by the ruling elite and mainstream mass media. It may take an extraordinarily high level of widespread pain before they revolt.

[Tyree D.]

what do the past have to do with whether or not Cambo and Viet are better alternatives than LOS? How did US foreign policy get into this?

Short bio: I am Black, American, combined two years in LOS(1999, 2004-6), two weeks in Viet (2000) never Cambodia. I witnessed the LA Riots and Crip-Blood wars with my own eyes. I also saw the last days of Thaksin. I am back in LA.

Now with that said, should I not live in America because slavery was once here? That's how most of you sound as to why you should not live in these places. I know the poster who made the negro comment was sarcastic.

Based on what I know and have heard, the golden age of LOS for a farang was pre-97 crisis. The golden age to live in Viet is NOW!!! I was part of the first student group to ever visit.

Please let go of the past that everybody under 35 wasn't even born for.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Tyree D.

[KhunMarco]

See, the problem with being an American today is easy access to knowledge, which unfortunately includes easy access to one-sided knowledge and people who really love to selectively promote information because it falls in line with their view of things – a tactic knows as selective arguments, or cherry picking.

snip...

Well Furbie, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with what you wrote here. 90% of the mainstream media is owned by a small number of corporations aligned and with an evident conflict of interest, that's what the masses use to form their opinion.

I don't see why you think it's unfortunate that some people is smart enough to think out of the box and use the internet to research and exchange opinions ( Here I'm guessing you refer to the net as an easy access to knowledge). An open access to various opinions is an enrichment for a free society in my book.

Cherry picking is not a product of the easy access to knowledge.

[cooL_guY_corY]

I was part of the first student group to ever visit.

can you explain this more ? You went to Nam in 2000 and were part of the first student group to ever go there ? is this like an american thing cause of the war or what does this mean?

[thedude]

Cambodians burned Thai embassy and looted Thai businesses just a couple of years ago because of a hearsay, and the govt just looked on.

Political future of Vietnam (and China) is a pretty much unknown territory and is never talked about.

JR Texas: Going off topic a bit, but I did live and work in China. I really liked it. Smart people, great food, low cost of living, beautiful mountains/ocean, much cleaner than Thailand, and smart visa rules/regulations.

Just one example......getting a work permit in China:

I arrived in China on a tourist visa. A representative of the university that hired me took me to get a physical (about US60 dollars), then we went to the local immigration office. I sat down with the immigration officer (very nice and polite). He asked me a couple of questions about working at the university and prior work in China (took 2 minutes). Then he took my passport, medical certificate, photographs, and about US$50 for the work permit. He told me to leave........I did not have to leave the country to get a different visa.

One week later, a university representative came to my apartment and gave me my passport and work permit. I did not have to even return to immigration.

That was it! Very cheap, easy and convenient. This was for 6 months. I did not have to report back to immigration every 90 days. And to get it extended another 6 months, I did not have to report back to immigration........a university representative took care of it.

Now Thailand: I arrived on a tourist visa.....it took a few weeks to get the paperwork in order........had to get a medical exam (small money).......then I was told to leave the country to get a different visa stamp (cost about 7000 baht for trip and visa).....then I was told to report to immigration (several hours away from my actual location) every 90 days and pay 1900 baht each time......CRAZY PROCESS!

Political future of China........very stable now because economy is strong and workforce has been indoctrinated to BELIEVE in the myths of globalization and progress. If the economy falters and the govt. has nothing to keep the young males busy (work projects or wars), all hel_l could break lose. But the young seem so indoctrinated and subject to manipulation by the ruling elite and mainstream mass media. It may take an extraordinarily high level of widespread pain before they revolt.

JR, if you have a work permit for Thailand, it only takes about one hour per year to renew it at the one-stop office, no need to leave the country either.

I agree with Tyree's comment. Most people here are passing judgement on Vietnam without having been there. The Vietnam of today is nothing like the war years. Ho Chi Minh city is absolutely buzzing with activity and you'd be surprised to find people from all over the world are packing into the city looking for opportuinities. I'm now spending about 50% of my time in Vietnam and while i still prefer the lifestyle and convenience of living in Thailand, the quality of life in Vietnam is not far off and catching up quickly.

As with China, there is no need to fear the communist government in Vietnam. It is not inhumane or evil as you would learn from school or see depicted in Hollywood movies. There is a prevailing sense that they too value justice and honour. The free world after all has its agenda too, which i dare say is driven by the need for capitalist expansion under the guise of spreading freedom. Freedom is good, but what is its true practical value? Democracy is not the cure-all solution for all countries, particularly not underdeveloped nations with large rural populations and low education standards. These governments however understand that open market reforms will create wealth, lead to greater individual freedoms, and ultimately the demand for political choice. I admire their enlightenment in managing this irreversible course which will ultimately displace them, and there is a genuine desire for progress and to lift the whole population to a higher level. I think the economic statistics speak for itself.

As for business freedom, i'd urge those interested to read the 2005 Law on Investment of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam before you pass judgement. You would be surprised to find clauses that would embarrass the Thai government, for example Article 4 allows investment in ALL industries, there are no ownership limits. The state guarantees equal treatment of foreign companies. The state guarantees protection of investment assets. Chapter 2, Article 6.1, state undertakes it will not nationalize or confiscate by administrative means the lawful assets of investors. Article 8.2, the state will NOT compel investors to give priority to purchase any domestic goods and services, or to fix a certain percentage for exports, to control quality etc etc.... Read it and you will start to understand why investors have been abandoning Thailand recently.

I still love Thailand, my heart is here, but i'd be an idiot to ignore the better opportunites now arising in Vietnam.

Edited May 3, 2007 by thedude

[Tyree D.]

I was part of the first student group to ever visit.

can you explain this more ? You went to Nam in 2000 and were part of the first student group to ever go there ? is this like an american thing cause of the war or what does this mean?

I went to St. Olaf College which sends 94% of its students abroad. I picked Term in Asia. When we went to Vietnam they rolled out the red carpet and kept saying we were the first to ever visit. I don't understand your second question but I think I answered it. Nobody was anti-american.

Other students asked them "Don't you hate us because of the war?" They answered either "That was 30 years ago" or "We weren't born yet".

edit- this made me think of several German students at Olaf tell me "I can't believe nobody hates us." It made me think of going to the south USA. People actually wave and hold the door open! You all need to stop living in the past. Every inch of this planet has had trauma. There are also lots of contradictions. Some are still anti-communist and pro-democracy yet you are preferring a country that redrafts a constitution every decade.

edit2- this also made me think of back then which was right after America bombed a Chinese embassy during the Kosovo conflict. People warned me, "Don't tell anybody you're from America!!" , even a French student. It was all for nothing.

edit3- I still hear to this day Asians don't like Black people. I am still employed by them in Los Angeles. And I remember the Black-Korean conflicts in the early 90s.

can I make this many edits? That's enough.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Tyree D.

[JR Texas]

I was part of the first student group to ever visit.

can you explain this more ? You went to Nam in 2000 and were part of the first student group to ever go there ? is this like an american thing cause of the war or what does this mean?

I went to St. Olaf College which sends 94% of its students abroad. I picked Term in Asia. When we went to Vietnam they rolled out the red carpet and kept saying we were the first to ever visit. I don't understand your second question but I think I answered it. Nobody was anti-american.

Other students asked them "Don't you hate us because of the war?" They answered either "That was 30 years ago" or "We weren't born yet".

edit- this made me think of several German students at Olaf tell me "I can't believe nobody hates us." It made me think of going to the south USA. People actually wave and hold the door open! You all need to stop living in the past. Every inch of this planet has had trauma. There are also lots of contradictions. Some are still anti-communist and pro-democracy yet you are preferring a country that redrafts a constitution every decade.

edit2- this also made me think of back then which was right after America bombed a Chinese embassy during the Kosovo conflict. People warned me, "Don't tell anybody you're from America!!" , even a French student. It was all for nothing.

edit3- I still hear to this day Asians don't like Black people. I am still employed by them in Los Angeles. And I remember the Black-Korean conflicts in the early 90s.

can I make this many edits? That's enough.

JR Texas to Tyree D and TheDude: Back on track......now, you have three countries to select from: Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Please let me know where you would start a small business and why. Thanks.

p.s., Is there any place in Vietnam that feels like the Pattaya of old (ocean, some but not too many expats, some Western food, lots of girls). Where is the "place" in Vietnam today?

[Tyree D.]

Before I left LOS, I met an American whose experience in SE Asia goes 15 years. The first two were in LOS, then he went to Nam and never looked back. He runs a bar and grill and started as an English teacher in Hanoi. Vietnam is definetly growing while LOS is unpredictable and has all the changes and limitations everybody already mentioned. Nam is the new frontier.

That is all I know. I will not claim to know anything about Cambodia. One of my classmates from Term in Asia is still having long term plans in LOS. He has gone back 5 times but never for more than two months and hasn't had a relationship out of the bar district. I am talking him out of it but he already built (using his host mom's name) a house or $200,000US. Too late!!!

Edited May 3, 2007 by Tyree D.

[uptou]

I was part of the first student group to ever visit.

can you explain this more ? You went to Nam in 2000 and were part of the first student group to ever go there ? is this like an american thing cause of the war or what does this mean?

I went to St. Olaf College which sends 94% of its students abroad. I picked Term in Asia. When we went to Vietnam they rolled out the red carpet and kept saying we were the first to ever visit. I don't understand your second question but I think I answered it. Nobody was anti-american.

Other students asked them "Don't you hate us because of the war?" They answered either "That was 30 years ago" or "We weren't born yet".

edit- this made me think of several German students at Olaf tell me "I can't believe nobody hates us." It made me think of going to the south USA. People actually wave and hold the door open! You all need to stop living in the past. Every inch of this planet has had trauma. There are also lots of contradictions. Some are still anti-communist and pro-democracy yet you are preferring a country that redrafts a constitution every decade.

edit2- this also made me think of back then which was right after America bombed a Chinese embassy during the Kosovo conflict. People warned me, "Don't tell anybody you're from America!!" , even a French student. It was all for nothing.

edit3- I still hear to this day Asians don't like Black people. I am still employed by them in Los Angeles. And I remember the Black-Korean conflicts in the early 90s.

can I make this many edits? That's enough.

JR Texas to Tyree D and TheDude: Back on track......now, you have three countries to select from: Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Please let me know where you would start a small business and why. Thanks.

p.s., Is there any place in Vietnam that feels like the Pattaya of old (ocean, some but not too many expats, some Western food, lots of girls). Where is the "place" in Vietnam today?

for me ho chi minh city (saigon) is similar to bangkok (architecture etc),where as hanoi,in the north is more vietnam,narrow streets,overhanging roofs,& a chinese,communist feel.hoi an is a pleasant place,especially near the river,lots of old buildings from the french (the movie the quiet american was filmed by this river-where the american guy gets followed going over the small bridge).

when i first arried in saigon my first challenge was crossing a road which was a river of motorbikes.kind of strange,as in my experience,in the west we generally avoid the oncoming traffic,but in vietnam it seems that you put your trust into the oncoming drivers on not hitting you.

i didnt really have any flings with vietnam women as i was travelling with a jap lady,but they are very easy on the eye.

[JR Texas]

Before I left LOS, I met an American whose experience in SE Asia goes 15 years. The first two were in LOS, then he went to Nam and never looked back. He runs a bar and grill and started as an English teacher in Hanoi. Vietnam is definetly growing while LOS is unpredictable and has all the changes and limitations everybody already mentioned. Nam is the new frontier.

That is all I know. I will not claim to know anything about Cambodia. One of my classmates from Term in Asia is still having long term plans in LOS. He has gone back 5 times but never for more than two months and hasn't had a relationship out of the bar district. I am talking him out of it but he already built (using his host mom's name) a house or $200,000US. Too late!!!

JR Texas: Thanks Tyree D: I am an academic but am looking for an alternative. I know how to cook some really great food........Texas food..........Tex-Mex (Mexican food Texas style) and smoked BBQ Texas style. Not one person has been able to do it in Thailand, but many will tell you that they have done it here already (total BS).

I would have done it a long time ago, but each time I consider it the govt. steps in with some of the worst visa/business rules and regulations on the planet, turning me off to the idea (and preventing me from hiring Thais and starting what would probably end up being a great business in Thailand).

So, question: If I start a Tex-Mex Mexican food restaurant in Vietnam or a smoked BBQ restaurant would anybody actually eat there? Assuming, of course, that the food is great.

[thedude]

JR Texas to Tyree D and TheDude: Back on track......now, you have three countries to select from: Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Please let me know where you would start a small business and why. Thanks.

p.s., Is there any place in Vietnam that feels like the Pattaya of old (ocean, some but not too many expats, some Western food, lots of girls). Where is the "place" in Vietnam today?

i think the answer was implicit in my earlier reply. vietnam is a better place for business right now because the government ensures a more level playing field for foreign investors than in thailand. as its early in the development cycle, opportunities abound in vietnam compared to thailand where barriers to entry for many industries are already quite high. as a place to live however, i'd still pick thailand, for now.

As for a Pattaya-like destination, i'm actually going up to Danang quite a bit looking for real estate opportunites. its very much like Pattaya of old, its the site of the wartime US airbase, the famous 30 km China Beach, powder white sand, beautiful surf, hilly terrain, and with 4 UNESCO world heritage sites within driving distance. its already got an international airport which is now being expanded. i'd say this will be a future toursit hub but still a nice quiet getaway for now.

[TokyoT]

JR Texas: Thanks Tyree D: I am an academic but am looking for an alternative. I know how to cook some really great food........Texas food..........Tex-Mex (Mexican food Texas style) and smoked BBQ Texas style. Not one person has been able to do it in Thailand, but many will tell you that they have done it here already (total BS).

I would have done it a long time ago, but each time I consider it the govt. steps in with some of the worst visa/business rules and regulations on the planet, turning me off to the idea (and preventing me from hiring Thais and starting what would probably end up being a great business in Thailand).

So, question: If I start a Tex-Mex Mexican food restaurant in Vietnam or a smoked BBQ restaurant would anybody actually eat there? Assuming, of course, that the food is great.

You have to consider more than just the economic issues if you are talking about opening a restaurant. I am not so sure how Texas BBQ would go over in any of these areas. The taste is not really in line with what the local population is accustomed to eating.

In addition I think you will find that one of the reasons that it is difficult to find a good BBQ place in Asia has a lot to do with sourcing the raw materials. Being able to make good Texas BBQ in the USA is not the same as attempting to make good Texas BBQ with what is readily available in LOS, Vietnam, or Cambodia – both in terms of ingredients as well as equipment. And importing everything to make sure you can end up with good tasting food is not really cost effective.

Making good Southern US BBQ, and Tex-Mex, or Mexican food in Southeast Asia is not an easy task. People’s tastes for this type of food is pretty fickle as can be seen in some of the other threads on ThaiVisa about this type of food. Even in parts of the US were BBQ is well received what one person feels is good/great BBQ may not be what the next person thinks is good/great BBQ. So even if you target the ex-pat community the tastes are far and wide in regard to these types of food. Especially when you consider that much of that to much of that ex-pat community Southern US BBQ is a foreign food.

I for one would welcome a new BBQ restaurant in BKK, The Roadhouse, and The Great American Rib could use some good competition. I am still looking for someplace that serves real southern style sweet tea to wash down what they attempt to pass off as BBQ.