Tourism Firms Want Foreign Rivals Curbed

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

The xenophobia continues.

"Local tourism businesses have urged the government to take stiffer measures to prevent foreign investors from running tourism businesses.

The 1992 Travel Agency Business and Guide Act says that only Thai nationals can operate such businesses. In addition, tour guides in particular are on List 3 of the Foreign Business Act, which classifies business in which Thai nationals are not yet ready to compete with foreigners."

And

''We do not reject foreign investment but the investment should obey local laws,'' he said

Full story here:

http://bangkokpost.com/Business/30Apr2007_biz35.php

We will be happy to take your investment money and give you nothing in return. We can pad invoices, use your money for personal expense like clothes and haircut, travel to see the destinations we send tourists, hire 20 relatives to do nothing and in the end there will be no profit to share with you. Sorry, the law says you cannot interfere with Thai management. The law says foreigners have no rights but we still happy to take your money.

[Jai Dee]

I found the following bit interesting:

Mr Anake, also the president of the Thai Travel Agents Association, said a large number of travel agencies had been formed with foreign and Thai investors to focus on big tourist markets such as South Korea, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia.

The firms were registered as Thai and the shareholdings of foreigners were represented by Thai nominees, he said.

''We do not reject foreign investment but the investment should obey local laws,'' he said, adding that what concerned him is the service standard of the operators. ''Some companies operate hit-and-run business that might hurt the industry.''

[cdnvic]

adding that what concerned him is the service standard of the operators.

Was he talking about the foreign operators or the locals?

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

adding that what concerned him is the service standard of the operators.

Was he talking about the foreign operators or the locals?

Here's your answer. I guess that only the foreign operators are a problem. When a Thai company acts in this manner it is considered being a clever businessman.

from the Asia Times:

"Zero-dollar" tours derive their name from package tours sold mainly in China, and to a much lesser degree in Korea, which include free air fare and low-cost accommodation. But once the incredulous (and gullible) tourists set foot in the Kingdom, the scam begins.

"Unscrupulous tour operators (both Thai and Chinese) and their selected outlets in Thailand reap handsome rewards - one estimate puts the loss to the legitimate tour industry at as much as US$400 million a year. Officials claim that about 90% of Thailand's inbound operators specializing in Chinese tourists are of the "zero-dollar" kind."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/GG14Ae01.html

[cdnvic]

Why improve service and be more competitive when you can just have the government load the dice even more in your favour?

Banana republicanism at it's finest.

[John K]

I think labeling this xenophobia may be a bit off. I think frustration may be a more accurate description. Anyone that has ever had the chance to compare a Thai company with a Non Thai company will tend to find the non Thai company more user friendly. Customer service is a significant example. Also presenting a product or service that looks far better in the brochure than the actual product or service. All this translates into repeat customers and new customers by word of mouth or sending them away. It appears they are dealing with the effect and not the cause.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

I think labeling this xenophobia may be a bit off.

A more accurate description would be We don't want foreigners, only their money.

[Steely Dan]

Why improve service and be more competitive when you can just have the government load the dice even more in your favour?

Banana republicanism at it's finest.

I guess the year 3000 is a realistic target for Thailand to join the WTO, no wonder Vietnam is growing at twice the rate Thailand is, wait till tourists discover they also have beaches.

[The Vulcan]

The 1992 Travel Agency Business and Guide Act says that only Thai nationals can operate such businesses. In addition, tour guides in particular are on List 3 of the Foreign Business Act, which classifies business in which Thai nationals are not yet ready to compete with foreigners."

Why is it that 15 years later the Thai's still can't compete? I mean, they still haven't got the hang of showing people around their own Country!

[richard10365]

It seems like some people in Thailand are getting a bit greedy. The article accuses foreigners of using Thai nominees to bypass the law and run local operations. If a loophole exist, I'm sure the designers of the law put it there for a reason. Laws do not benefit everyone.

However, with all fairness to the Thai tourism operators, Thailand is started to look more like America all the time. And I don't mean that as a compliment.

[highdiver]

here we go again..

lets take a headline from the press and bash the Thais... and wilde doing so lets move of topic and bash the thais for everything that is wrong.

I have looked at the articleand would like to answer sme of the members who were so eager to reply about this.

1. there is no need to take to seriously each politician or manager that "calls" on the govermant to do something.

the govermant never listens to those "calls" and they mainly serve the public relation for the one who is calling as to let people know that they are doing something. As most of them hardly do anything they get a press conference once in a while to "call" on the govermant to do something...

this is done every where in the world and its facinating to see in how many news papers all aroun the world are actually publishing those calls. its nice as it makes a good headline.

2. The travel act and buisness Act in thailand define that travel buisness are to be thai controlled. we can argue as much as you like if this is fair or not. if it is in the benefit or not. but the main point remains the same. under the law it is ileagal for forigners to mae a travel buisness in thailand. and any one doing it is breach of the law.

if you set up a thai company with nominees to by pass the law then you breach 2 laws.

like it or not that is the law. and if you dont want problems follow the law.

3. travel guides are a very sensitive isuue in othe countries as well. mainly because the big money coming in from tourists and the desire of the locals not to shre this with forigners.

Some countries within the European Union insist that only licensed local guides may give talks to tour groups, and if you are a forigner you can not apply for a liscence.

The national regulations include fines for unlicensed guides in Italy, for example, and some Japanese tour leaders have been caught for giving "unauthorized" translations to their groups.

Spain, Portugal, Greece and Austria also have national laws that prevent foreigners acting as tour guides, but implementation of the local regulations is uneven, haphazard and random.

France demands that tour groups employ a local guide for specific purposes like city tours and explanations at some monuments and attractions - even if the paid local guide just sits on a bus and does not speak to the group because of language difficulties or lack of specialist technical knowledge in art or architecture that the group may require.

4. each country set different rules and regulations some of them in various ways to protect the local guides on inbound tour operators. in thailnd they named it as "can not compete with forigners" but the result is the same as oter countries. protection of intrest fro the locals..

I know some of us dont like it and others may think its unfair.

[richard10365]

2. The travel act and buisness Act in thailand define that travel buisness are to be thai controlled. we can argue as much as you like if this is fair or not. if it is in the benefit or not. but the main point remains the same. under the law it is ileagal for forigners to mae a travel buisness in thailand. and any one doing it is breach of the law.

if you set up a thai company with nominees to by pass the law then you breach 2 laws.

like it or not that is the law. and if you dont want problems follow the law.

I don't think anyone is argueing the fact that foreigners can't own or manage a travel buesiness.

If a Thai citizen gets money from their foreign spouse and sets up a travel business with that money there is nothing illegal about that.

If the Thai citizen wants to share their profits with their foreign spouse, there is not law against that either. In fact, according to new immigration rules, 40,000 baht monthly income from the Thai spouse can be declared when applying for a visa extension based on marriage.

Another Thai citizen sees the Thai citizen with the travel busienss and cries foul because they are not getting any of that money. Bottom line, someone is jelouse. Since we're assuming things, I would assume these people are crying foul because now it makes it more diffcult for them to over charge foreigners for travel services.

Next thing you know these same jelouse Thai citizens will be trying to take the houses and land that is registerd under the name of the Thai citizen who is married to the foreigner.

[Steely Dan]

The 1992 Travel Agency Business and Guide Act says that only Thai nationals can operate such businesses. In addition, tour guides in particular are on List 3 of the Foreign Business Act, which classifies business in which Thai nationals are not yet ready to compete with foreigners."

Why is it that 15 years later the Thai's still can't compete? I mean, they still haven't got the hang of showing people around their own Country!

[soundman]

Maybe they are just worried that foreigners will offer realistic prices in an otherwise monopolistic market.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[sukanyacondo]

2. The travel act and buisness Act in thailand define that travel buisness are to be thai controlled. we can argue as much as you like if this is fair or not. if it is in the benefit or not. but the main point remains the same. under the law it is ileagal for forigners to mae a travel buisness in thailand. and any one doing it is breach of the law.

if you set up a thai company with nominees to by pass the law then you breach 2 laws.

like it or not that is the law. and if you dont want problems follow the law.

I don't think anyone is argueing the fact that foreigners can't own or manage a travel buesiness.

If a Thai citizen gets money from their foreign spouse and sets up a travel business with that money there is nothing illegal about that.

If the Thai citizen wants to share their profits with their foreign spouse, there is not law against that either. In fact, according to new immigration rules, 40,000 baht monthly income from the Thai spouse can be declared when applying for a visa extension based on marriage.

Another Thai citizen sees the Thai citizen with the travel busienss and cries foul because they are not getting any of that money. Bottom line, someone is jelouse. Since we're assuming things, I would assume these people are crying foul because now it makes it more diffcult for them to over charge foreigners for travel services.

Next thing you know these same jelouse Thai citizens will be trying to take the houses and land that is registerd under the name of the Thai citizen who is married to the foreigner.

Yes hit the nail on the head.

But I have found as Im sure many have here the worst customer service I have ever seen has been in Thailand. Im not generalising because I have had good too. I bought 3 lcd tv's price more than 100000 baht but when there was a slight fault with one there was no way the seller even wanted to have a look at it.If Thais offered good customer service (which many dont) they would get the business easily but they often do not, or do not understand what a foreigner wants or are just plainly not interested. There is no sense of customer service at many places.

I had a boat trip recently in Samui where they refused to drop us back at our hotel saying the drive was too steep which is odd as they picked us up there ok. They offered us no help whatsoever in getting back to our hotel yet we had paid for this.

Often they have many excuses and all I really see is after they have had your money they are not interested in you. My wife says the same and she struggles to understand it and she is Thai??

[Dakhar]

Wow... from top to bottom people want protection from the falangs.

Feeling the love

How about the tourist feeling the love?

"Well we would hire someone that can speak your language (Chinese, Japanese, English etc) but due to our wonderful protection type policies, we don't have to."

[Mid]

Wow , what's all this ,

there's a thread round somewhere close where their all patting themselves on the back for tourist increases ...................

now who's telling the porkie pies

formatting edit

Edited April 30, 2007 by Mid

[wintermute]

I think labeling this xenophobia may be a bit off. I think frustration may be a more accurate description. Anyone that has ever had the chance to compare a Thai company with a Non Thai company will tend to find the non Thai company more user friendly. Customer service is a significant example. Also presenting a product or service that looks far better in the brochure than the actual product or service. All this translates into repeat customers and new customers by word of mouth or sending them away. It appears they are dealing with the effect and not the cause.

The difference between a thai tourism company and a non-thai tourism company is that when you purchase product/services with a thai company they act like they are doing YOU a favor. With a non-thai company the concept of customer service is understood.

[KireB]

I think labeling this xenophobia may be a bit off. I think frustration may be a more accurate description. Anyone that has ever had the chance to compare a Thai company with a Non Thai company will tend to find the non Thai company more user friendly. Customer service is a significant example. Also presenting a product or service that looks far better in the brochure than the actual product or service. All this translates into repeat customers and new customers by word of mouth or sending them away. It appears they are dealing with the effect and not the cause.

The difference between a thai tourism company and a non-thai tourism company is that when you purchase product/services with a thai company they act like they are doing YOU a favor. With a non-thai company the concept of customer service is understood.

Is this really true? There are a lot of Thai companies out there with a great service level.

[LaoPo]

Spain, Portugal, Greece and Austria also have national laws that prevent foreigners acting as tour guides, but implementation of the local regulations is uneven, haphazard and random.

Where did you find this wisdom highdiver ?

These countries belong to the EU/EEC and throughout the EU/EEC is freedom of exchange in labor force, meaning every citizen is able to work in any job in another country.

LaoPo

[PhilHarries]

However, with all fairness to the Thai tourism operators, Thailand is started to look more like America all the time. And I don't mean that as a compliment.

Sheesh, ten replies into a thread about the Thai tourism business and we are America bashing. Good work, a new world record - all Dubbya's fault of course.

I don't know what you mean by looking more like America but if it's good ole McD's et al that is the unfortunate side effect of globalisation and one effect I also find distasteful.

However if we are comparing the Thai tourism business with that in America you are wide of the mark by a coutry mile. In my experience tourist attractions in the USA, whether you like them or not, are presented 100% professionally and kept immaculate. Of course this is only my experience and I'm sure others will disagree on specific instances but that's their perogative.

The Thai tourist business on the other hand, sadly, fails to deliver the goods in a large percentage of cases. Whether it is crappy boat trips to koh Larn, rip off tours round Bangkok or wildlife parks/zoos in which the animals are kept in appaling conditions the tourism business in Thailand survives in spite of itself. But for how much longer?

Thais like to operate their business their way and there's nothing wrong with that. But that extends to the situation where a farang invests in a setting up a Thai company, pays the money, gets no say in the running of the business and gets nothing out of it (bit like the tourists really).

But look at the tourist attractions themselves, taking the two around Pattaya I've visited most Nong Nooch and the Crocodile farm. Take a real close look at what they offer. Some pretty gardens (the only attraction IMO), some poorly looked after animals, a half hearted show and shops, more shops, restaurants, food stalls, trinket stalls, drink stalls etc etc. And for the pleasure of entering this shopping experience you are charged an exhorbitant price.

IMO Thailand should welcome foriegn involvement in the tourist business, watch how things are done, LEARN and copy. TAT should employ a few foriegn consultants to offer some guidelines as to what the tourists want. Oh and listen to what they say, but they'll never do that as face will be lost.

[highdiver]

Spain, Portugal, Greece and Austria also have national laws that prevent foreigners acting as tour guides, but implementation of the local regulations is uneven, haphazard and random.

Where did you find this wisdom highdiver ?

These countries belong to the EU/EEC and throughout the EU/EEC is freedom of exchange in labor force, meaning every citizen is able to work in any job in another country.

LaoPo

LaoPo if you look at the text it says forigners.. and those that are not within the EU/EEC are not permited to do those practices.

howevewr even though there are EU/EEC regulations about labour. many countries avoide them and dont respect the regulations.

There has been an attempt by the EU to define this but untill now it has been avoided.

The Committee European de Normalization (CEN) generally known by its English title, the European Committee for Standardization, is working on a project to define the role of tour guide within a wider brief looking at tourism services. CEN is more usually engaged in setting safety and technical standards for industry and consumer products, such as gas appliances and electrical devices. No safety issue is raised by their debates into the functions of tour guides.

"From the outset we have expressed our serious concerns with this standards project, as it is setting a standard for an activity that is ill-defined," said the ETOA's Tom Jenkins in a joint letter to CEN.

"At the core of the problem is the definition with which the CEN working group is establishing standards."

The working definition includes the phrase, " which person normally possesses an area-specific qualification." and this is at the heart of the tour operators' dispute. "The standard currently being elaborated is only practical for those tourist guides who have an area-specific qualification. They are properly called 'locally qualified guides.' It is not suited for the many tourist guides who neither wish nor need to acquire such qualification."

The tour operators point out that year after year, tour guides from elsewhere in Europe have been fined (or threatened with fines) in Italy, Spain and Austria, despite explicit rulings from the European Court of Justice granting the freedom of tourist guides to work unhindered."Any chaining of the term 'tourist guide' to qualification, where no qualification is required by either the tour operator or the client, seriously curtails the industry's freedom to provide services and undermines the principle of the [European Union's] Internal Market. The standards project thus fails to meet an essential objective of any standard, namely to facilitate the free movement of services across borders."