2 minutes ago, Opl said:

it's amazing these guys support Trump, just like you do 

They seem to be Anti Government , Anarchists .

They seem to want to remove the Government , whoever that may be 

11 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

They seem to be Anti Government , Anarchists .

They seem to want to remove the Government , whoever that may be 

Still a right-wing militia connected to the Wolverine Watchmen 

7 hours ago, Opl said:

it's amazing these guys support Trump, just like you do 

Now a 2nd member of this right wing supremacist group turns out not to be as presented initially. Not many right wing Trump supporters march with BLM - who I consider an extreme left wing group. Right wing white supremacists just do not believe they should kneel to apologize for the sins of their fathers centuries ago. 

 

“One of alleged plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kidnap-plot-whitmer-fox-militia/2020/10/09/ce81751a-0a65-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html

 

Can we start to consider this group as plain anarchists/anti-government activists, not aligned to the right or left per se, and stop conspiracy theories spreading? Conspiracy theories such as this little gem from ex MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann, with no evidence, are very dangerous in such polarized times-

 

"In a 14-minute tirade, the ex-MSNBC anchor argued the FBI should identify Trump as an “unindicted co-conspirator” of the plot by members and associates of an anti-government militia to abduct Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. "

https://www.foxnews.com/media/keith-olbermann-amy-coney-barrett-trump-prosecuted-removed-society

12 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Now a 2nd member of this right wing supremacist group turns out not to be as presented initially. Not many right wing Trump supporters march with BLM - who I consider an extreme left wing group. Right wing white supremacists just do not believe they should kneel to apologize for the sins of their fathers centuries ago. 

 

“One of alleged plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kidnap-plot-whitmer-fox-militia/2020/10/09/ce81751a-0a65-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html

 

Can we start to consider this group as plain anarchists/anti-government activists, not aligned to the right or left per se, and stop conspiracy theories spreading? Conspiracy theories such as this little gem from ex MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann, with no evidence, are very dangerous in such polarized times-

 

"In a 14-minute tirade, the ex-MSNBC anchor argued the FBI should identify Trump as an “unindicted co-conspirator” of the plot by members and associates of an anti-government militia to abduct Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. "

https://www.foxnews.com/media/keith-olbermann-amy-coney-barrett-trump-prosecuted-removed-society

We know extreme right wingers attended BLM protests and, despite what they say were their motives to attend, we have evidence of why they actually attended.

 

https://medium.com/@kevinjshay44/right-wing-provocateurs-likely-inflaming-protest-violence-bcf1c48e1d40

 

You don’t take the word of people arrested for terrorist as absolute truth without corroborating evidence to support their claims.

 

Well, OK, you do, but you shouldn’t expect the rest of us to swallow the excuses of terrorists.

 

 

40 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Right wing white supremacists just do not believe they should kneel to apologize for the sins of their fathers centuries ago. 

Looks as though you  you sympathise with the ideology of right wing white supremacists - in the above post 'white grievance', what other aspects of their ideology do you concur with?

Edited October 10, 20205 yr by simple1

45 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Now a 2nd member of this right wing supremacist group turns out not to be as presented initially. Not many right wing Trump supporters march with BLM - who I consider an extreme left wing group. Right wing white supremacists just do not believe they should kneel to apologize for the sins of their fathers centuries ago. 

 

“One of alleged plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kidnap-plot-whitmer-fox-militia/2020/10/09/ce81751a-0a65-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html

 

Can we start to consider this group as plain anarchists/anti-government activists, not aligned to the right or left per se, and stop conspiracy theories spreading? Conspiracy theories such as this little gem from ex MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann, with no evidence, are very dangerous in such polarized times-

 

"In a 14-minute tirade, the ex-MSNBC anchor argued the FBI should identify Trump as an “unindicted co-conspirator” of the plot by members and associates of an anti-government militia to abduct Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. "

https://www.foxnews.com/media/keith-olbermann-amy-coney-barrett-trump-prosecuted-removed-society

Gee, you want us to accept that these aren't right-wing extremists, but your side couldn't accept that protestors weren't also rioters.    Interesting.   I think I'll make that a big NO.   

 

10 hours ago, Opl said:

it's amazing these guys support Trump, just like you do 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/whitmer-kidnapping-suspect-trump-video

1 hour ago, Kelsall said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/whitmer-kidnapping-suspect-trump-video

trump supporters are busily attempting to deflect across social media flatforms

 

There are a number of media articles talking to the group's posts in far-right support context. From your link:

 

The digital media company Daily Dot also uncovered videos and photos it says are from Caserta on Facebook and TikTok. In them, he praises Kyle Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old accused of fatally shooting two men and wounding another amid civil unrest in Kenosha, Wis., in late August.  Some of the posts he allegedly shared on Facebook obtained by the Daily Dot display anti-mask rhetoric and coronavirus conspiracy theories.

 

Example of some other commentary, can't link due to paywall.

 

There’s the Twitter account that apparently belongs to another suspect, Barry Croft, ranting about immigrants, praising President Trump and calling for the prosecution of Trump’s onetime Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. One image featured by the account shows a young man draped in ammunition and cradling a rifle in his hands. Croft also appears to have an account on a small social media site devoted to spreading QAnon, the right-wing conspiracy theory.

 

4 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Now a 2nd member of this right wing supremacist group turns out not to be as presented initially. Not many right wing Trump supporters march with BLM - who I consider an extreme left wing group. Right wing white supremacists just do not believe they should kneel to apologize for the sins of their fathers centuries ago. 

 

“One of alleged plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kidnap-plot-whitmer-fox-militia/2020/10/09/ce81751a-0a65-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html

 

Can we start to consider this group as plain anarchists/anti-government activists, not aligned to the right or left per se, and stop conspiracy theories spreading? Conspiracy theories such as this little gem from ex MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann, with no evidence, are very dangerous in such polarized times-

 

"In a 14-minute tirade, the ex-MSNBC anchor argued the FBI should identify Trump as an “unindicted co-conspirator” of the plot by members and associates of an anti-government militia to abduct Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. "

https://www.foxnews.com/media/keith-olbermann-amy-coney-barrett-trump-prosecuted-removed-society

By presenting political opponents almost as "a mortal danger", Trump's responsibility is obvious (Gov Whitmer became the regular target of attacks by Truts.mp, who in a Tweet called to "liberate Michigan")

Blessed by Trump (who keeps saying he will challenge yhe election results if he loses),  there are people (militias, supremacists or "patriots" of the Second Amendment..) who will take him at his word, and "resist" violently. Because with Trump's malicious rhetoric and support, they felt they were considering committing a largely consensual act.  

On 10/9/2020 at 5:56 AM, simple1 said:

The arrested, among other charges, are accused of planning acts of terrorism, Have Dems articulated support / tolerance for domestic terrorism or indeed any acts of violence? Disagreements on policy how to address violence, but not tolerance or support for violence.

I wonder how the Trump supporters spin this, they throw a hissy fit when antifada does something but now its like white supremist. I don't see the usual suspects like topdeadcenter post yet.

35 minutes ago, robblok said:

I wonder how the Trump supporters spin this, they throw a hissy fit when antifada does something but now its like white supremist. I don't see the usual suspects like topdeadcenter post yet.

Take a look at posts in this topic

Clearly, these guys heard the public plea from Trump... "Liberate Michigan!"   And that's exactly what they set out to do, with visions of kidnapping the governor and storming the state Capitol at gunpoint...

 

Unidicted co-conspirator, you say???  How about indicted co-conspirator!

 

And I see Newsweek has already chimed in on that exact topic:

 

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-liberate-michigan-tweet-plot-kidnap-gretchen-whitmer-governor-1537719

 

Quote

 

'Fact-check: Did Trump's Liberate Michigan' Tweet Inspire Plot to Kidnap Gov. Whitmer?

...

Rating: Unknown

The FBI has provided no evidence that the arrested men were inspired by Trump. However, more information about their political beliefs and motivations is likely to come to light, particularly when the matter goes to trial. At this stage, it is not possible to say with certainty whether or not the men felt emboldened by the president.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 20205 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

19 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Take a look at posts in this topic

Yea I read the first pages, later i saw his deflections. Talk about being bias.

On 10/9/2020 at 11:43 AM, blazes said:

 

I don't know about "monster", but let's face it, thousands of Democrat voters told her to eff off last year as she plummeted in the votes of her very own party!!!!

Clearly, those clear-sighted Democrat voters saw something extremely ugly in this woman, and they voted accordingly.

 

 

Last year... plz try to stay up-to-date...

 

a majority of Michigan voters approve of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s job performance and handling of the coronavirus pandemic, according to a Detroit News-WDIV-TV poll.

The first-term Democratic governor's approval rating has risen more than 15 percentage points from January.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/09/michigan-voters-approve-gretchen-whitmer-handling-pandemic-poll-finds/5750849002/

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Last year... plz try to stay up-to-date...

 

a majority of Michigan voters approve of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s job performance and handling of the coronavirus pandemic, according to a Detroit News-WDIV-TV poll.

The first-term Democratic governor's approval rating has risen more than 15 percentage points from January.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/09/michigan-voters-approve-gretchen-whitmer-handling-pandemic-poll-finds/5750849002/

 

Looks like you are a bit confused, Squire.

 

The woman I was referring to as being rejected by her very own Democrat voters was Kamala Harris.

Maybe you did not read the thread attentively?

2 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Looks like you are a bit confused, Squire.

 

The woman I was referring to as being rejected by her very own Democrat voters was Kamala Harris.

Maybe you did not read the thread attentively?

And it looks like you just can't get out of your hysterical anti-Harris fit:

 

"...those clear-sighted Democrat voters saw something extremely ugly in this woman..."

 

Really? Those who did not vote for her all saw something extremely ugly? Or was that just pulled out of a dam and dark place? So all those who did not vote for trump (the majority) all saw something extremely stupid and ugly in him? Well, at least that's plausible.

18 hours ago, Kelsall said:

It's amazing that people actually think this was Trump's fault!  ????

Noone is saying it was his fault!

But there is no question, he egged idiots like these on!

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

And it looks like you just can't get out of your hysterical anti-Harris fit:

 

"...those clear-sighted Democrat voters saw something extremely ugly in this woman..."

 

Really? Those who did not vote for her all saw something extremely ugly? Or was that just pulled out of a dam and dark place? So all those who did not vote for trump (the majority) all saw something extremely stupid and ugly in him? Well, at least that's plausible.

 

Here's a mind that wanders all over the place, spraying little ad hominem squibs.

 

Let me ask you a kindergarten question:  to what do you attribute the plunge in Primary support for Harris, from about a high of 18% (may have been higher) to a low of 4% in November. At which point she threw in the towel.

Just a simple question, with no need to dig for "dark" answers.

 

1 hour ago, The Barmbeker said:

19 hours ago, Kelsall said:

It's amazing that people actually think this was Trump's fault!  ????

Noone is saying it was his fault!

No one? Dangerous to talk in absolutes. At least one person associated with a "credible source" has gone on record to said it was his fault.

 

"In a 14-minute tirade, the ex-MSNBC anchor argued the FBI should identify Trump as an “unindicted co-conspirator” of the plot by members and associates of an anti-government militia to abduct Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. "

https://www.foxnews.com/media/keith-olbermann-amy-coney-barrett-trump-prosecuted-removed-society

16 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Here's a mind that wanders all over the place, spraying little ad hominem squibs.

 

Let me ask you a kindergarten question:  to what do you attribute the plunge in Primary support for Harris, from about a high of 18% (may have been higher) to a low of 4% in November. At which point she threw in the towel.

Just a simple question, with no need to dig for "dark" answers.

 

You don’t seem to understand that the Primaries selects the front running candidate for President and the selected Presidential candidate selects the candidate for VP.

 

Democrat voters in the primaries understood in today’s US, the candidate most likely to defeat a white male incumbent is a white male challenger.

 

Understanding that a woman of color is not going to unseat an incumbent white male President is a political reality the Democrat voters understand and you apparently don’t.

 

 

Edited October 11, 20205 yr by Chomper Higgot

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You don’t seem to understand that the Primaries selects the front running candidate for President and the selected Presidential candidate selects the candidate for VP.

 

Democrat voters in the primaries understood in today’s US, the candidate most likely to defeat a white male incumbent is a white male challenger.

 

Understanding that a woman of color is not going to unseat an incumbent white male President is a political reality the Democrat voters understand and you apparently don’t.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for stating the bleedin' obvious.  No misunderstanding whatsoever.

 

So, by your "logic", if Harris had in fact won the Primaries ( as she briefly threatened to do after her "little girl at the back of the bus" attack on Joe) then the Democrat National Convention would have said, "sorry, Ms Harris, you are not capable of beating a white male, so go take a jump.

 

Patently that is ludicrous.

7 minutes ago, blazes said:

Thanks for stating the bleedin' obvious.  No misunderstanding whatsoever.

 

So, by your "logic", if Harris had in fact won the Primaries ( as she briefly threatened to do after her "little girl at the back of the bus" attack on Joe) then the Democrat National Convention would have said, "sorry, Ms Harris, you are not capable of beating a white male, so go take a jump.

 

Patently that is ludicrous.

The bigger picture - the DNC picks whoever they want. I was one of the original litigants in the lawsuit against the DNC in 2016. Their primary defense was since they are NOT an official government group, they can pick whoever they want and that means the person most liked by Big Pharma and corporations. Harris was never going to get the nod from the DNC.

16 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

 

Thanks for stating the bleedin' obvious.  No misunderstanding whatsoever.

 

So, by your "logic", if Harris had in fact won the Primaries ( as she briefly threatened to do after her "little girl at the back of the bus" attack on Joe) then the Democrat National Convention would have said, "sorry, Ms Harris, you are not capable of beating a white male, so go take a jump.

 

Patently that is ludicrous.

Yes I agree, that is a ‘Pretty Ludicrous’ take on my comment.

 

 

10 minutes ago, J Town said:

The bigger picture - the DNC picks whoever they want. I was one of the original litigants in the lawsuit against the DNC in 2016. Their primary defense was since they are NOT an official government group, they can pick whoever they want and that means the person most liked by Big Pharma and corporations. Harris was never going to get the nod from the DNC.

“they can pick whoever they want and that means the person most liked by Big Pharma and corporations.”

 

You need to listen to Biden on the matter of his tax plans rather than posting pre-canned nonsense.

 

Incidentally, how did your lawsuit go?

Personally I'd like to re-run the Democratic primaries with none of the over-70 candidates.  But that's not an option.

 

The Democratic primaries in 2020, like the Republican primaries in 2016, illustrate the problems with a winner takes all election system when the vote is divided many ways:  When the sane vote is divided six ways and the lunatic vote divided one or two ways, the lunatic vote wins.

 

The US desperately needs a Ranked Choice voting system.  https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)

 

Instead of the candidate with the largest minority of support, it lets the candidate who is considered the best compromise win.  It keeps out the loonies with dedicated minority supporters.

 

I suspect a lot of other countries could benefit from this, but the current topic is the US and the less than optimal situation we're in.

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“they can pick whoever they want and that means the person most liked by Big Pharma and corporations.”

 

You need to listen to Biden on the matter of his tax plans rather than posting pre-canned nonsense.

 

Incidentally, how did your lawsuit go?

The attorney was in fear for her life. 

 

https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/

 

‘You’re entitled to your own opinion, you’re not entitled to your own facts’

 

Edited October 11, 20205 yr by J Town

2 hours ago, blazes said:

 

Looks like you are a bit confused, Squire.

 

The woman I was referring to as being rejected by her very own Democrat voters was Kamala Harris.

Maybe you did not read the thread attentively?

They preferred biden. Does not mean she was rejected outright.

1 hour ago, blazes said:

Let me ask you a kindergarten question:  to what do you attribute the plunge in Primary support for Harris, from about a high of 18% (may have been higher) to a low of 4% in November. At which point she threw in the towel.

Let me guess, the voters saw something extremely ugly, just like with trump?

1 hour ago, blazes said:

 

Here's a mind that wanders all over the place, spraying little ad hominem squibs.

 

Let me ask you a kindergarten question:  to what do you attribute the plunge in Primary support for Harris, from about a high of 18% (may have been higher) to a low of 4% in November. At which point she threw in the towel.

Just a simple question, with no need to dig for "dark" answers.

 

Speaking of polls, look at the biden/harris polls, looking quite good.

6 minutes ago, J Town said:

The attorney was in fear for her life. 

 

So what was it, thrown out of court or ruled against?