Anyone who can tell how serious this damage on "new" condo building is?

[tomazbodner]

I am looking at a condo that I like, and started following the groups of people who live there and talk about issues with the building. Someone posted these photos above his window and asked how serious this is. There are no answers but of course I'd like to ask the same question, as unlike the poor sod who took the photo, I didn't buy it yet. Anyone with experience? Now the building was completed probably 1-2 years before last quake that shook quite many highrises in Bangkok a year or so ago, so maybe that's damage from then. No idea. So it's about 2018 or so completed, from AP.

 

Any ideas? It's above the room on floor 28 (top floor of this side of the building, other side has 4 more floors).

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by tomazbodner
corrected floor number

[kingofthemountain]

Imo just looking at the pictures it doesn't look very good

on a recent condo to see something like this.

 

I am not a specialist but from my point of view it seems the metalics bars inside the concrete

start to rust, hence the cracks.

Was the antirust coating done correctly or there is a lot of water in the wall?

Maybe a swimming pool on the roof with a leak?

Whatever it is i would not buy into it, it's a structural problem and can only become worse

in a not so far future.

 

[Airalee]

It’s enough to make me want to run away.  What are those gaping holes in the side?  

[elliss]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

It’s enough to make me want to run away.  What are those gaping holes in the side?  

 

 War zone ?..

[tomazbodner]

37 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Imo just looking at the pictures it doesn't look very good

on a recent condo to see something like this.

 

I am not a specialist but from my point of view it seems the metalics bars inside the concrete

start to rust, hence the cracks.

Was the antirust coating done correctly or there is a lot of water in the wall?

Maybe a swimming pool on the roof with a leak?

Whatever it is i would not buy into it, it's a structural problem and can only become worse

in a not so far future.

 

Thank you. I don't know what was applied during construction, but there is no pool at the top, only a walking track and garden...

 

[Lacessit]

It seems to me many old condos were built to last, and some newer ones are not. The bean counters at work.

[tomazbodner]

19 minutes ago, Airalee said:

It’s enough to make me want to run away.  What are those gaping holes in the side?  

Well, that's what I was asking... was it just metal rings to use to lift the piece up by crane that was then just covered with concrete which then fell off, or is this part of the structure which should be welded to something but isn't... no idea, hence asking.

[tomazbodner]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It seems to me many old condos were built to last, and some newer ones are not. The bean counters at work.

No doubt that buildings that were built before 1997 were far better built than anything newer. But at the same time, the internal design of these condos have very little or no wasted space compared to older buildings, where you needed 30-50% more space to get same amount of usable space (which would kind of be the place I live at now - so much space wasted on corridors and useless corners). But it's in centre of the city, lots of air and noise pollution. So I was looking for something convenient but away from ... at least away from the shooting zone as whenever there were protests before, and shooting broke out, it happened here... with situation heating up again I was considering moving away from this area... And this one fit the bill on what I cared about... and then saw these photos... I don't know what the reputation for AP is. There's Ideo from Ananda near me now, and I remember first few years (put aside major fire on the building just before completing it) they were constantly repairing it... everytime you looked at it, it was "white worms" all over the building, then repainted, just for "worms" to be there again a month later... but a few years back - they just stopped fixing it....

[Airalee]

2 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Well, that's what I was asking... was it just metal rings to use to lift the piece up by crane that was then just covered with concrete which then fell off, or is this part of the structure which should be welded to something but isn't... no idea, hence asking.

I wasn’t quite sure what I was looking at.  That whole first picture looks like things were patched with chewing gum.  The cracks, rust drips etc.   I’m trying to figure out where it is based on that train interchange and the tunnel off in the distance. 

[tomazbodner]

A little bit south from Bang Wa BTS/MRT station. The one below just before lots of trees... at the end of sign Thoet Thai 48 Alley...

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by tomazbodner

[tgw]

structural engineer needs to go there ASAP.

 

I will take a wild guess and say the rebar spalled when the building moved with the wind, but a more serious issue would be if one side of the building is sagging off. did you check if your floor is still level?

 

in any case, the cracks need to be repaired ASAP to prevent the rebar from rusting.

[jastheace]

the metal may be just rebar to support scaffolding used during construction. it may be rebar for a balcony outcrop before they realised it won't have one at that level. the rust stains from the cracks are a bigger concern. rusted steel expands and causes cracks. cracks allow more water in . rusted steel increases the size of the cracks. allows more water in.......

stay away. i can see a big maintenance bill coming to the current owners to patch up the damage.

[howerde]

Looks like something was attached to the outside and removed roughly (aircon), whatever it is needs patching up soon

[tomazbodner]

10 minutes ago, howerde said:

Looks like something was attached to the outside and removed roughly (aircon), whatever it is needs patching up soon

Unlikely. It's 4 holes like that, 2 to the side, above each of the 2 windows. Given where this is, there could not have been anything mounted there before... except maybe these links were used to raise the plate to top floor.

[HighPriority]

1 minute ago, tomazbodner said:

Unlikely. It's 4 holes like that, 2 to the side, above each of the 2 windows. Given where this is, there could not have been anything mounted there before... except maybe these links were used to raise the plate to top floor.

That’s what it looks like to me, lifting points.

[jerolamo]

hi, it is difficult with only these pictures to get a expertise on the quality of this building part.

What i can see is red color as a proof of steel corrosion leakage. Not sure this steel used for any re-enforced structure or armed concrete. But if it is a steel rebar, sure this part is not good. It doesn't mean it is to bad also... it can be repair easy, but still the thickness cover seems to be not enough. Again, not sure to be a major default.

Than i'm not sure if it is painting removal on the picture or horizontal cracks. If it is only painting removal, no problem, but if cracks, need to get some more details and a full design of the building all along the vertical point concerned by cracks and structures support around.

 

Some building in Thailand are really not conform to any construction standard (but not all, government ones are fine). Not really design, but technical applications to be very poor as: zero knowledge with rebar link technic, no knowledge with structural dimensions, no knowledge with soil structures and foundations requests material and design to choose in relation, no knowledge with concrete mix (too much water all the time ! just to be more easy to apply, but terrible bad idea), electrical minimal standard to be safe and so on... up to isolation for window (as i can see on the picture, window isolation seems to be poor there also).

 

I see next pictures, and i think it is impossible a building this side to be too much wrong. They can not be build by someone stupid, it will never works.

So i think it should be minor surfaces default caused by time and poor concrete mix apply and/or not enough gap between rebars and surface. But the best idea should be to engage an expert to go to make a NDT (non destructive test) inspection.

Garden roof can damage the surfaces easy due to heavy water retention there and also exposure to any chemical pollution.

 

It can be just a little surface problem easy to fix... or something bad. But nothing to be not resolvable there.

 

Just maybe a poor mix who will not be possible to stay clean for long time enough to cross centuries time like roman structures and surfaces... Modern building are like this: nice, lot of technical design idea, but still not so strong to long time life. 20 years for them is long... they will never stay 200 years or more.

Edited October 11, 2020 by jerolamo

[kokesaat]

You might consider taking a walk up the stairways to the condo and seeing if there's any evident damage.  Year's ago, we stayed in a newish hotel in Krabi.  I took the staircase instead of the elavator and found large cracks in the outter walls.  The insides of the hotel looked fine, but since then, I've found other buildings with the same sort of problems in staircases.......maybe because the builder doesn't pay that much attention to fixing areas that aren't normally in public view.  

[tomazbodner]

Just now, kokesaat said:

You might consider taking a walk up the stairways to the condo and seeing if there's any evident damage.  Year's ago, we stayed in a newish hotel in Krabi.  I took the staircase instead of the elavator and found large cracks in the outter walls.  The insides of the hotel looked fine, but since then, I've found other buildings with the same sort of problems in staircases.......maybe because the builder doesn't pay that much attention to fixing areas that aren't normally in public view.  

I may ask if I go see actual room. But a girl posted this from 14th floor, taken at balcony and doesn't look good at all... then again, maybe many Thai condos are like this but still... This is getting concerning...

 

[Heng]

I love condo life and have a few, but none where I spend the majority of my time.  It's nice to be near the airport link and to have a BTS connection and not have to drive anywhere (or to leave my car at the airport on long vacations like I used to), but it's always going to be niggling in the back of my mind that the city is indeed sinking and that the fire suppression system might not cut it (see those cases in Dubai and Seoul, etc.) and you are compounding your fire risk with the random habits of X00 other families and their children.  That said, I'd bet that the building outlives you... and that it's probably more of a concern of the next generation or two.   Maybe footnote it in your will to have your kinds or grandkids sell off older condo units as needed.  ????

[3NUMBAS]

ask the architects to see if they used cladding and where from and what construction was it made from

[Airalee]

6 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I may ask if I go see actual room. But a girl posted this from 14th floor, taken at balcony and doesn't look good at all... then again, maybe many Thai condos are like this but still... This is getting concerning...

 

I’ve been in quite a few condos here in Thailand....both Bangkok and Chiang Mai.  Never seen anything as bad as what you’re pointing out and especially not in a 2 year old condo.  With all the Covid discounts available, you can afford to be picky.  No...I’m not an agent.

[jerolamo]

7 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I may ask if I go see actual room. But a girl posted this from 14th floor, taken at balcony and doesn't look good at all... then again, maybe many Thai condos are like this but still... This is getting concerning...

 

the second picture show rebar but can be fix easy. We see that this one default is not so long times ago. It looks like a shot impact. rebar is deep enough, no cracks, impossible to know more about the concrete mix from a picture. But easy to fix. Do it quickly, much more if exposed to sea salted air.

 

First picture can be a problem if on roof, and we can see any red color who can be steel corrosion. Not enough detail and dimension to get an idea of the problem and gravity. You should add a dimension (a meter) to your picture and an orientation to know if it is vertical or horizontal, on wall, on top or on the floor, if this is on a leg support or on a close to no constraint surface. The first picture is not enough to get an idea what is it. impossible to get an informative idea then...

[jerolamo]

7 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

ask the architects to see if they used cladding and where from and what construction was it made from

architects will never go against there employers or collaborators...

[Mark Nothing]

Your photos appear to be from a scaffolding patch job once the exterior walls were completed.  I have this problem at my highrise condo on my balcony exterior wall. 16 years now. 

 

The old concrete putty expands and blisters with rust every few years.  Condo maintenance have tried multiple fixes, but every few years the concrete patch expands out with rust and looks similar to your photos.

 

Owners at my building think it is from initial construction where scaffolding was attached during the rendering of the exterior walls.  The bolts holding the scaffolding to the building exterior were concrete puttied over when the scaffolding was removed.

 

It is not a structural problem at my building but rather a cosmetic issue.  I would recommend contacting the building manager for committee members names and requesting information.  Or request names of longterm building residents you can talk to about issues in the building.

 

Good luck on whatever you decide.

 

 

[Oldie]

Did you ask the condo management what it is and why they didn't fix it. It is their responsibility to fix it. Also talk to other people living there. I once wanted to buy a nice condo on the top floor. When I talked to the neighbor he told me whenever there is heavy rain then water comes into his condo. Then he showed me several letters he sent to the management and said he never got an answer. Needless to say that I immediately forgot this condo. 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Oldie

[bwpage3]

What I would worry about is after all the units are sold out, the owner takes off and no building maintenance is ever conducted.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

I may ask if I go see actual room. But a girl posted this from 14th floor, taken at balcony and doesn't look good at all... then again, maybe many Thai condos are like this but still... This is getting concerning...

 

That is without doubt rebar corrosion, otherwise known as concrete cancer. It may be fixable if it is caused by water leakage. If it is caused by the input water at the cement mixing stage being too salty, the entire structure would need to be redone. As it is only visible on one floor, perhaps it was only one bad batch of water.

I certainly would not be buying an apartment in a building exhibiting such corrosion so soon. I'd even hesitate about renting.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

No doubt that buildings that were built before 1997 were far better built than anything newer. But at the same time, the internal design of these condos have very little or no wasted space compared to older buildings, where you needed 30-50% more space to get same amount of usable space (which would kind of be the place I live at now - so much space wasted on corridors and useless corners). But it's in centre of the city, lots of air and noise pollution. So I was looking for something convenient but away from ... at least away from the shooting zone as whenever there were protests before, and shooting broke out, it happened here... with situation heating up again I was considering moving away from this area... And this one fit the bill on what I cared about... and then saw these photos... I don't know what the reputation for AP is. There's Ideo from Ananda near me now, and I remember first few years (put aside major fire on the building just before completing it) they were constantly repairing it... everytime you looked at it, it was "white worms" all over the building, then repainted, just for "worms" to be there again a month later... but a few years back - they just stopped fixing it....

Riverside Condo in Chiang Mai was originally designed to be a hospital, so it has wide corridors and a lot of waste space. Against that, it does not have the same cramped feeling of many modern condos' space.

I don't know when it was built, about 30 or 40 years ago is my guess. It's still rock solid.

[jastheace]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

That is without doubt rebar corrosion, otherwise known as concrete cancer.

that was a thought of mine. unlikely but if poor quality steel, low quality cement/ aggregate mix then possible, but hopefully written off in history 70 years ago. hope lessons learnt have not been forgotten. rebar in pics looks fresh-ish. hope it's not concrete cancer, whole buildings life is limited to tens rather than hundreds of years. again, unlikely, but......

edit.there have been blocks i believe (scotland, north england) demolished because of this amongst other reasons,social being one, construction techniques being another, materials, and quality of them, forced expansion and requirements of housing, costs with no money ie budget restraints... but thailand has quality sources of material locally. it would cost more to import cr@p than good stuff. no excuse for concrete cancer except exceptionally bad building practices. so .... unlikely... (i hope)

Edited October 11, 2020 by jastheace

[Damrongsak]

I wonder how long it took to build the building and how long the rebar was exposed to the weather prior to being encased in concrete.  And was it rusty to start with?