5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'm very glad to see the UK is not caving in to their outlandish demands for continued control over our country.

 What demands for 'continued control' are they, then?

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Trade with them the same way they trade with China, with whom they do around a Billion Euros a day.

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

it really makes you wonder how China and the EU do a Billion Euros of trade a day without a trade deal

 Without a trade deal?

 

What about the 1985 EU-China Trade and Cooperation Agreement?

39 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

 

It is hard to see how the words "politician" and "truth" can be used in the same sentence, along with "morals" and ethics".  When it comes to our politicians in government I fear we really are at the very bottom of the barrel.

Well start your own thread about that stuff.....????

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Nope. Of course Johnson would accept some quotas and tariffs on certain goods. That's normal for an FTA.

 

What he doesn't want is continued deference to the ECJ, unfettered access to UK fishing waters for UK vessels, level playing field etc. He's 100% right to refuse that, it's completely unreasonable for the EU to expect us to agree to that.

But a free trade agreement with quotas and tariffs is not what Johnson is trying to negotiate. Otherwise the talks would have been completed months ago because the EU is not interested in offering an FTA to the UK. Its stated position is clear. If you want access to the single market other than WTO terms then it comes at a cost.

The EU cannot simply give the UK free access to the single market because that would essentially be a better deal than being in the EU.

So why is Johnson still negotiating? 

38 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I listened to Cameron's arguments. When he confirmed that Brexit meant leaving the Single Market I was very happy to hear that

 

How many more Brexiteers are going to claim that they didn't believe Johnson, Gove and all the other leave campaigners when they promised that leaving the EU would not mean losing access to the single market?

 

How many more Brexiteers are going to claim that they didn't believe Vote.Leave when they dismissed Cameron's warning as Project Fear?

15 minutes ago, transam said:

Well start your own thread about that stuff.....????

I was responding to a post from LuckyLuke.  No need to get your knickers in a twist ????

There are Polls going back to September 2010 that indicated that 47% would leave the EU if there was a referendum on Britain's membership of the European Union, long before voteleave was formed in October 2015

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nqf0ycudkh/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Europe-220113.pdf

 

These polls that a large % of people had decided their position 6 years before the  referendum in 2016

I know many Scots that knew which way they would vote if a referendum was to take place on Scottish independence 30 years ago

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

had decided their position 6 years before the  referendum in 2016

...or had it decided for them by our wonderful press.

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nope. Of course Johnson would accept some quotas and tariffs on certain goods. That's normal for an FTA.

Free trade agreements may place restrictions on certain goods, such as drugs, arms, food that does not meet hygiene standards etc., and there are usually regulations to which both sides agree. But free trade is trade free of most quotas and tariffs.

 

What Is a Free Trade Agreement (FTA)?

 

But a FTA is not what Johnson and his Vote.Leave colleagues promised us in 2016. They promised us continued, complete and unfettered access to the single market. That goes a lot further than a FTA and is something no non EU member enjoys without accepting all the rules of same whilst having no say in those rules or access to the ECJ to settle disputes. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 What demands for 'continued control' are they, then?

 

 

 Without a trade deal?

 

What about the 1985 EU-China Trade and Cooperation Agreement?

Continued control would be via a level playing field which they control, and using the ECJ as the dispute mechanism.

 

The Trade and Cooperation agreement is not a full FTA.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/who-trades-eu-under-wto-rules/

 

6 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Let's face it, when dealing with ''u turn johnson'', why would anyone yield to him or his govt...

Not U turns, just mutating algorithms, but as you say, why would anyone want to deal with a mutation.

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Continued control would be via a level playing field which they control, and using the ECJ as the dispute mechanism.

 Which every other non member who has the access to the single market Johnson and Vote.Leave promised us has accepted.

 

There has to be some form of mechanism for resolving disputes; what would you suggest?

 

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The Trade and Cooperation agreement is not a full FTA.

 I didn't say it was; but you said

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

it really makes you wonder how China and the EU do a Billion Euros of trade a day without a trade deal

(7by7 emphasis)

Which is clearly incorrect.

 

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

https://fullfact.org/europe/who-trades-eu-under-wto-rules/

Did you read that? I can only assume not as it proves you wrong!

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

With all these countries around the world refusing to trade with each other unless an FTA is in place, it really makes you wonder how China and the EU do a Billion Euros of trade a day without a trade deal, doesn't it. There must be massive queues at all those Chinese ports, all that paperwork, checking every single box in every single container, it must be chaos ????.

Yes it is chaos, the Chinese will have found another EU state to peddle their wares.

“Despite having been informed of the risks of fraud relating to the importation of textiles and footwear originating in the People’s Republic of China since 2007, and despite having been asked to take appropriate risk control measures, the UK failed to take action to prevent the fraud,” said the commission in a statement.

https://www.ft.com/content/65afd882-22e2-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7d11

 

As for tomatoes, always be available at a price, just like here.

28 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I was responding to a post from LuckyLuke.  No need to get your knickers in a twist ????

I am I not allowed to read and reply...?

He has to point this out as the UK can't see the holes after 4 years of doing nothing

38 minutes ago, transam said:

I am I not allowed to read and reply...?

 

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yes, because it's going to be absolutely impossible to buy tomatoes from Spain without an FTA isn't it ????. 

 

With all these countries around the world refusing to trade with each other unless an FTA is in place, it really makes you wonder how China and the EU do a Billion Euros of trade a day without a trade deal, doesn't it. There must be massive queues at all those Chinese ports, all that paperwork, checking every single box in every single container, it must be chaos ????.

When you have 1.3 BILLION Chinese, who wants a job...

 

 

          Really don't  see what all the fuss is about. Brexit talks should be scrapped, and then return to Pre 1973 conditions. And lets be free of all the EU <deleted>.

6 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

          Really don't  see what all the fuss is about. Brexit talks should be scrapped, and then return to Pre 1973 conditions. And lets be free of all the EU <deleted>.

 

That's a great idea, no more bulls**** about have your cake and eat it...! Why don't we put that to vote and see the result, and also say have 5 years to prepare for a complex separation like that...???? - where were you in 2016 to make this suggestion...????

 

29 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

 Fully agree.

And we, continental Europeans, finally freed from these obsolete Englishmen dreaming of their distant glory past in a world which favors union, exchanges and major shared projects.

Oh, you mean the ones that came to your rescue......????

On 11/5/2020 at 4:32 AM, JonnyF said:

I'm very glad to see the UK is not caving in to their outlandish demands for continued control over our country.

In short : I'm not sure you understand that no-deal gives the bigger party the ability to set and change the rules in the future with no guarantee of stability.

 

Guess who is the most powerful party: the UE or the UK?

 

 

3 hours ago, Victornoir said:

 Fully agree.

And we, continental Europeans, finally freed from these obsolete Englishmen dreaming of their distant glory past in a world which favors union, exchanges and major shared projects.

Half of the people in the UK voted to remain.  Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Half of the people in the UK voted to remain.  Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Now you see exactly what those across the channel think of ALL UK folk..........????

1 minute ago, transam said:

Now you see exactly what those across the channel think of ALL UK folk..........????

And I thought his post was a gross generalisation.  Then along comes an even bigger one ????

7 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Half of the people in the UK voted to remain.  Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

What a terrible thing to say, if I was to "tar" you it would be for being an anti democrat. More than half voted to leave and that is why we are leaving.

55 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Half of the people in the UK voted to remain.  Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Evidently, this is a serious problem for us in the EU, we very well know that the educated part of the English people are against Brexit, as well as the Scots and people from Northern Ireland. 

 

Yet things have gone from bad to worst and the lack of a written constitution in the UK does not help. Basically, in the UK, as long as you have a simple majority (as opposed to a qualified majority) there's no limit to what can be done (including passing a law allowing government members to break the law). 

 

Basically, the EU is trying to negotiate with a rogue state. 

 

Now while no deal gives free rein for adaptability to what's best for the EU along the way, it's very complicated to run. We'd probably need to establish a dedicated body to monitor UK-EU relationships and make adhoc decisions in case of no deal. 

 

I lack information on how a no-deal scenario would unfold in the UE, governance-wise. 

EU gives in! Barnier says he's 'HAPPY to compromise' and hand UK boats bigger fish catches

MICHEL Barnier has admitted he must "compromise" on the bloc's hardline fishing demands in order to broker a Brexit agreement with Britain, it has emerged.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1357011/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Michel-Barnier-fish-Brexit-trade-talks-latest-no-deal-update

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

MICHEL Barnier has admitted he must "compromise" on the bloc's hardline fishing demands in order to broker a Brexit agreement with Britain, it has emerged

Proof the gutter press can be right : there will be a compromise. That's what negotiating is about. 

 

Now if you are able to source us actual news from reliable sources, that would be a great help. 

5 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Of course, but as with your system the minority has no rights, it is difficult to take it into consideration. Also note that I wrote England and not UK.

You may have written England but it was the UK who voted in the referendum not just England.

7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Proof the gutter press can be right : there will be a compromise. That's what negotiating is about. 

 

Now if you are able to source us actual news from reliable sources, that would be a great help. 

There is no actual news.  When it comes to Brexit Johnson is hiding in a cupboard until the US election is settled.  Notlong now!

morooco will step  in with fruit and veg or grow your own