Do Thai people have, and does the culture here, promote common sense and reason?

[spidermike007]

This is not a Thai bashing column. I love the Thai people, and love my life here. I have alot of respect and affection for most Thai people who I consider lovely souls. I actually find the difference between the way we perceive the universe, and the way the average Thai (and my wife!) does, to be amusing, and an endless source of fascination. But, over the years I have made some observations, and I often share them with people who are visiting Thailand for the first time. Kind of a primer of sorts. Less of these generalizations seem to apply to the youth here, who are increasingly more dynamic, smarter, infinitely more open minded and curious, and less conservative, than their elders. They are Thailand's hope for the future, and the only way this nation will move forward, in my opinion. 

 

There are some gross generalizations here, and I own that. Please regard most of what I say here with a sense of humor. 

 

1. There appears to be very little common sense or reason practiced here in Thailand. If it is employed, you will never be able to interpret it as the kind of common sense, and reason you are accustomed to.

2. Thailand is not a foreign country. It is a distant planet. Always keep that in mind. On so many levels, this place does is not familiar. That is one of the things I like most about living here. But, it takes some time to get used to, and I have to remind myself alot, of that reality. Perspective on the place helps alot.

3. Most Thais are kind hearted, and decent people. Just show some respect. It is their country after all. Do not expect them to behave like you do. Kindness and respect toward the locals goes a long way toward making your stay here really pleasant, and can defuse, or prevent alot of hostile situations.

4. Thailand is a very foreign culture. They are one or two generations removed from a nearly total tribal existence. So, alot of traditional values still exist. Expect that. Most are very conventional people, and most live in very small boxes, in terms of lifestyle.

5. The police are not here to protect you. They do not care one iota about your well being, your safety, or traffic safety. Expect that. Do not employ them, unless absolutely necessary. They operate franchises, and are completely immune to oversight or prosecution. So expect corruption from them, and expect a fleecing, if you give them the slightest opportunity. They are best avoided. Always remember. In Thailand the police only rarely engage in law enforcement. Most of what they do is revenue collection.

6. Face can be a real obstacle here. In my opinion, it is the single greatest weakness of the Thai people. Many are pathologically afraid of losing face. Personally, I despise this practice of face. It prevents the society from maturing and progressing, on so many levels. Get used to it. If you confront a Thai, many will engage in fierce denial, and most will absolutely refuse to take responsibility for their actions, or admit, and own the problems they have caused, on any level.

7. If you are going to get involved with a Thai woman, take into account the fact that many are immature and emotionally undeveloped. I highly recommend looking for a woman who is the eldest child in the family. They are given far more responsibility growing up, and it shows. And remember, you are no longer in the West, which means you do not have to check your cajones at the door. Do not behave like you behaved back there. Many Thai women really appreciate a man who behaves like a man, and most like it if you take charge. If you do not do that, she will take over. You will force here to be the dominant force in the relationship, even if she does not like it. Every ship needs a captain. And most importantly, take your time. Time is your ally. If it is good, it is only going to get better. If there are real issues, they will reveal themselves over time. Do not allow a woman to push the time agenda. Be a man. Push back. Be strong. Leave the Western desperation and emasculation behind. 

8. If driving, especially on a motorbike, treat the activity as an act of war, in a sense that you may be mowed down or killed at any moment. Maintain eyes in the back of your head. Watch everyone. Expect craziness, insanity, lack of reason, and a complete lack of courtesy and respect on the roads, at all times. Expect cars and trucks to be coming at you in the wrong lane. Expect people to overtake you with the slimmest of margins. Expect trucks to be driving very slowly in the fast lane of a highway. If riding a motorbike, only do so if you have many years of experience. Especially on the southern islands, where huge numbers of foreigners leave Thailand in a wooden box. Wear the best helmet you can afford. And drive like a grandmother. This applies to ex-pats too. Get a motorcycle license. And for tourists, bring an international drivers license. This helps you to avoid being fleeced by the local police franchisee.

10. The police only show up after the accident takes place. There is nothing in the way of traffic safety on the roads, or on the highways. Those traffic stops are all about weapons, drugs and handouts. Nothing to do with safety. I suppose there is no money in traffic safety. However, if they levied real fines for speeding over 120kph, for reckless driving, making severely quick lane changes, etc, there would be some money to be made for the government, and the highways would be far safer.

 

Any thoughts? 

[Mavideol]

Do Thai people have, and does the culture here, promote common sense and reason?

 

they can not promote something impossible to achieve  555 (not a troll just my opinion)

[Natai Beach]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

This is not a Thai bashing column. 

You need a new hobby. You seem obsessed by telling farangs on TVF how “Thais” should behave and what they should do. 
According to you. 

 

You might be surprised but not all Thai people are the same. Some are smart, some are dumb, some are hardworking, some are lazy. Some are cruel, some are kind. Most are safe drivers, many are not. Some are immature, some are wise. 
etc etc. 

 

It sounds to me like you have fallen in with the wrong crowd. 
What will it be tomorrow?
 

I assume you are from the USA. Just saw the news, averaging 180,000 new covid cases per day and climbing because people refusing to follow simple guidelines, your leader claiming a stolen election, people attacking each other in the streets, rioting, looting, shooting, proud boys, racial tensions etc etc. 
Maybe you could come up with a plan to fix that glass house first. 
 

The Thais go alright.

[ThailandRyan]

All I can say is that someone is obviously having a bad day and needed to vent.  Life here is good, no common sense is used. If something bad occurs, it was meant to be.  Thais live the easy life and few stress. Thai time is notoriously late, and you get used to it. Not looking where they are driving or when they change lanes is common, the same for them not using turn indicator signals or turning their head.  You learn to drive with a high visual horizon, head on a swivel and just a tad below the speed limit so you can adjust for what's unfolding ahead of you. I have been told by my now ex-wife many times "Your in Thailand not America, speak Thai and think Thai if you want to live here, everything is easy, don't make problems".  The other thing rampant here is gossip, and talking behind your back. Just ignore it and enjoy.

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There appears to be very little common sense or reason practiced here in Thailand.

 

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

And remember, you are no longer in the West,

After 20 years full time Thailand, I still have problems to sometimes understand their way of doing and thinking.

My Thai wife, for 20 years too, and having a certain knowledge,  tell me regularly the same,

something like :

 

"Your not in Belgium anymore, your way of thinking, claiming that you use common sense, is probably correct in Belgium, and many other western countries.

But you are in Thailand now, our way of thinking and our common sense is different.

Are you going to pretend that your way is better than ours, and that we should adapt."

 

When very upset she add " This is Thailand, not Congo, where you could dictate your colonial mentality".

 

Well, I haven't change my approach of things, and thus avoid confrontation, but must recognize she has a point.

 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

 

After 20 years full time Thailand, I still have problems to sometimes understand their way of doing and thinking.

My Thai wife, for 20 years too, and having a certain knowledge,  tell me regularly the same,

something like :

 

"Your not in Belgium anymore, your way of thinking, claiming that you use common sense, is probably correct in Belgium, and many other western countries.

But you are in Thailand now, our way of thinking and our common sense is different.

Are you going to pretend that your way is better than ours, and that we should adapt."

 

When very upset she add " This is Thailand, not Congo, where you could dictate your colonial mentality".

 

Well, I haven't change my approach of things, and thus avoid confrontation, but must recognize she has a point.

 

 

Thank you for that. The other replies have not been in the spirit of light hearted fun, that I intended! Not yet, anyway. LOL. 

[LogicThai]

19 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

When very upset she add " This is Thailand, not Congo, where you could dictate your colonial mentality".

Well, we certainly did it that way over there, and it did not work out too well for us, or for them, now did it? ????

[Lacessit]

Thais are like anyone else, the way they think is a result of their education system. Western systems focus on logic and science, the Thai system focuses on obedience and respect. Thais know next to nothing about the world outside Thailand, except for the few who actually leave Thailand.

Before we get too far up ourselves, however, we should bear in mind their social cohesion puts ours to shame, and most of the Western world would not know how to use a bum gun. It wasn't so long ago it was a crime to teach the theory of evolution in American schools, and most US citizens still think socialism is a disease akin to leprosy.

[LogicThai]

53 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

5. The police are not here to protect you. They do not care one iota about your well being, your safety, or traffic safety. Expect that. Do not employ them, unless absolutely necessary. They operate franchises, and are completely immune to oversight or prosecution. So expect corruption from them, and expect a fleecing, if you give them the slightest opportunity. They are best avoided. Always remember. In Thailand the police only rarely engage in law enforcement. Most of what they do is revenue collection.
...

10. The police only show up after the accident takes place. There is nothing in the way of traffic safety on the roads, or on the highways. Those traffic stops are all about weapons, drugs and handouts. Nothing to do with safety. I suppose there is no money in traffic safety. However, if they levied real fines for speeding over 120kph, for reckless driving, making severely quick lane changes, etc, there would be some money to be made for the government, and the highways would be far safer.

...

 

Any thoughts? 

Thai police seems to perform quite a lot of law enforcement. One proof of that is that the jails are full. Besides, there is criminality, and they occasionally catch the criminals, do they?

 

We had some disturbance in the neighbourhood a while ago, my wife called the police, they came up and they helped defuse the situation. Very much like the police would do it in Europe, I suppose.

 

I just got in the mail yesterday a ticket for speeding. 130 kmh where the limit is 90 kmh. The fine is 500 bahts. It is an automatic ticket, with photo of the car etc., very First World, all in all.

[Traubert]

Maybe, maybe not.

 

However it's not your business.

[OneMoreFarang]

52 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Thailand is not a foreign country. It is a distant planet. Always keep that in mind

That is a good summary.

 

I think it's important that foreigners keep an open mind and don't think constantly: we do this different and we do this better.

 

Thailand is different, accept it, live with it. Complaining won't change anything.

After a while (years living here) we understand a little better what Thai people do in which situations. That is understanding like: we know they do this and that. And it is not: Yes, I understand they do this because of this and that. Mostly, IMHO, we don't understand why they do what they do.

 

One of my summaries for new people to Thailand is: Don't try to find any logic. There is no logic (in our sense) so you won't find any. And after you accept that the question WHY? does not make any sense life becomes much easier. Relax. Enjoy.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

Thai police seems to perform quite a lot of law enforcement. One proof of that is that the jails are full. Besides, there is criminality, and they occasionally catch the criminals, do they?

 

We had some disturbance in the neighbourhood a while ago, my wife called the police, they came up and they helped defuse the situation. Very much like the police would do it in Europe, I suppose.

It seems many laws in Thailand only exist so that the police can extort money. Gambling is a prime example.

The police know if people disobey the laws. And what do they do first? Arrest the law breaker? Or is their first action to negotiate a cash payment so that they can pretend they didn't see what happened? And only if that payment does not happen or is not sufficient then they actually enforce the law (so others see that they better pay). TiT

[LogicThai]

Thais do things different than we do, we all know that. As to why that is, it leaves us puzzled, and the Thais themselves usually cannot explain why, nor would they care.

 

This said, behind that facade of peaceful harmony and bliss, there are massive sources of tension, that their patriarchal model of reference cannot cope with and won't be able to channel for much longer. It is a deeply divided, unequal, unfair society, and a country that is rather rich, but populated by people who are rather poor. Now that people, especially the young ones, have a constant balcony open to how things are elsewhere, by the way of internet and social media, it will be increasingly difficult to keep the lid on the pressure cooker. 

 

If one adds the concept of face (and why it is so important not to lose it) to the preservation of entrenched interests, and the inability of Thai culture to deal with dissent without resorting to violence, the whole thing is a cocktail for a very nasty explosion.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

Now that people, especially the young ones, have a constant balcony open to how things are elsewhere, by the way of internet and social media, it will be increasingly difficult to keep the lid on the pressure cooker. 

And what are the young people looking at on the internet and social media? Did they follow i.e. the US elections, which are important for the rest of the world? Or is K-pop and the newest food fashion and gadget higher on that list?

Sure, there are some Thai people who care and try to understand the rest of the world. But it seems these people are the exception and not the rule.

[tifino]

and if have a Thai Mrs... 

 

rule 1: always let her 'think' she has won...

 

rule 2;  

 - There is a Right Way

  - There is a Wrong Way

 - and there is the Sommai Way

 

so just let her have it her way

 

 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

This is not a Thai bashing column.

That is exactly what your post is.

 

They lack common sense.

They live on another planet.

Attacking their driving skills.

Attacking their culture of saving face.

Giving your personal opinion on relationships that seem senseless.

Bad mouthing and making some terrible generalizations and false claims about the police. 

On and on.

 

What is your point?

You make some excuse and try to mask it that it is suppose to be taken with a sense of humor and is funny. 

 

Just one big generally negative Thai bashing thread you started.

Terrible..

[spidermike007]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Thais are like anyone else, the way they think is a result of their education system. Western systems focus on logic and science, the Thai system focuses on obedience and respect. Thais know next to nothing about the world outside Thailand, except for the few who actually leave Thailand.

Before we get too far up ourselves, however, we should bear in mind their social cohesion puts ours to shame, and most of the Western world would not know how to use a bum gun. It wasn't so long ago it was a crime to teach the theory of evolution in American schools, and most US citizens still think socialism is a disease akin to leprosy.

 

Yes. And the Thai people have many wonderful qualities, which I and many others appreciate. I especially like their sense of light heartedness. That is quite a joyful thing to be around. I think as the tribal mentality dissipates over the years, and the decades, the youth will become more aware of the outside world, and will begin to question things more, as we are seeing now. 

 

I also agree, on some levels, the society here is quite remarkable. Take for instance the police. They do very little in way of law enforcement, yet the crime rate here is not extraordinarily high. That says alot about most Thai people. Most have an inherent sense of decency and honesty. I am never afraid, when I am out at night alone, even in marginal areas of Bangkok. That cannot be said about most world capitals. 

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

That is exactly what your post is.

 

They lack common sense.

They live on another planet.

Attacking their driving skills.

Attacking their culture of saving face.

Giving your personal opinion on relationships that seem senseless.

Bad mouthing and making some terrible generalizations and false claims about the police. 

On and on.

 

What is your point?

You make some excuse and try to mask it that it is suppose to be taken with a sense of humor and is funny. 

 

Just one big generally negative Thai bashing thread you started.

Terrible..

 

Well, some would agree about the common sense part. And the driving skills? Is there nothing behind that? Is there a reason why Thailand is #2 in the world in road fatalities? Or is that sheer coincidence? I consistently see a level of recklessness here, that I have never seen anywhere else in the world, on the roads. They do live on another planet. Planet Thailandia. That is part of why I love it here. Every day is unpredictable. Nothing about that is an insult. Not on any level. Saving face? No room for improvement? A strength or a weakness? The relationship stuff is based on dozens and dozens of experiences that personal friends have had. Many are first hand. Make of it what you will. If you want to insist that romance here is exactly the same as in your home country, go right ahead. But, nobody is going to take your argument seriously. False claims about the police? Really? Cannot even address that one. 

 

Are these attacks? I do not think so. They are more general in nature, I have admitted many are gross generalizations, and they are certainly not personal. I am not a warring person. These are just fun observations. Take them any way you like. Depends on one's perspective, and lightness of heart, I suppose. 

[bodga]

I  think we  ALL  know the answer.

[spidermike007]

20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And what are the young people looking at on the internet and social media? Did they follow i.e. the US elections, which are important for the rest of the world? Or is K-pop and the newest food fashion and gadget higher on that list?

Sure, there are some Thai people who care and try to understand the rest of the world. But it seems these people are the exception and not the rule.

 

Hard to say. I know my wife studies geology, rock formation, science, looks at international news, and many other rather fascinating things online. The younger they are, the more promise they seem to have here. I did not always feel that way about Gen Z. But, the Thai kids impress me alot more than their counterparts in the US. 

[bodga]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

Most are safe drivers, many are not

How does that work then!

[spidermike007]

38 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

Thai police seems to perform quite a lot of law enforcement. One proof of that is that the jails are full. Besides, there is criminality, and they occasionally catch the criminals, do they?

 

We had some disturbance in the neighbourhood a while ago, my wife called the police, they came up and they helped defuse the situation. Very much like the police would do it in Europe, I suppose.

 

I just got in the mail yesterday a ticket for speeding. 130 kmh where the limit is 90 kmh. The fine is 500 bahts. It is an automatic ticket, with photo of the car etc., very First World, all in all.

 

Generally speaking, the jails are full of people who could not buy their way out of the crime they committed. I cannot believe the number of first hand stories I have heard of people being given that opportunity, in a very open and notorious manner, before being arrested, or brought to the precinct. 

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Any thoughts? 

Mai tong kid, phud hua! No need to think, it causes headaches! 

[LogicThai]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Generally speaking, the jails are full of people who could not buy their way out of the crime they committed. I cannot believe the number of first hand stories I have heard of people being given that opportunity, in a very open and notorious manner, before being arrested, or brought to the precinct. 

Well, very possibly, but that reinforces the notion that the police do enforce the law. They really do catch criminals, offenders in a large sense. The fact that there is corruption does not change anything to that. You do have a point that people can buy their way out of trouble here a lot more than in many other places, but if it was not so, and law enforcement became incorruptible, they simply would need to build more jails.

I would be more concerned if you reported cases of people wrongly accused on imaginary crimes, only to be fleeced by rotten cops, as it happens in real failed states (like in Russia, where the running joke is about that policeman telling you that he cannot afford to wait until you do something wrong to feed his family).

[worgeordie]

Common sense and reason......you could ask the same about

the USA...re the election, and the UK  re  Brexit.

regards worgeordie

[Lacessit]

22 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

 

I also agree, on some levels, the society here is quite remarkable. Take for instance the police. They do very little in way of law enforcement, yet the crime rate here is not extraordinarily high. That says alot about most Thai people. Most have an inherent sense of decency and honesty. I am never afraid, when I am out at night alone, even in marginal areas of Bangkok. That cannot be said about most world capitals. 

I have yet to meet a Thai who does not say the police are corrupt. Having said that, I have yet to meet any police who did not treat me with courtesy, perhaps that was because I was courteous in return. I live a quiet life, and was never a Hooray Henry even in my youth.

I've found most Thais to be honest, although one does have to be watchful of an Asian trait when seeking information, because one is sometimes told what the other person thinks they want to hear. A carryover from the days when messengers were beheaded for bringing bad news, Come to think of it, still happens in a manner of speaking at the White House. On the odd occasions when I have been honest in return, such as returning incorrect change in my favor, it is met with a mixture of astonishment and gratitude.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There appears to be very little common sense or reason practiced here in Thailand. If it is employed, you will never be able to interpret it as the kind of common sense, and reason you are accustomed to.

Interesting list - thanks... 

 

Some of their common sense works better for me... and about the issue of 'face' - - I think in many ways it exists as strongly in the Western World... it is just a matter of people not wanting to be wrong - 

 

but I too often feel that I am on another planet - and I like that. 

[LogicThai]

41 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And what are the young people looking at on the internet and social media? Did they follow i.e. the US elections, which are important for the rest of the world? Or is K-pop and the newest food fashion and gadget higher on that list?

Sure, there are some Thai people who care and try to understand the rest of the world. But it seems these people are the exception and not the rule.

This is true, and we should not idealize the Thai youth wholesale for being freedom-loving and hungry for lofty goals of improving the fairness of things.

But even K-pop and all the rest of the media they consume promotes a society of affluence and upward social mobility, that has to clash with the prospects that many realistically have in their current status. The thing is: peasants revolt, but revolutions are started by disgruntled aspiring elite. Authoritarian regimes can jugulate revolts with a carrot and stick approach, for a long time and possibly forever, but it is a lot harder to deal with an increasing number of young (and not so young) people who get the notion that they are not getting a fair deal.

Not unlike in China, successive Thai governments, despite permanent power struggles, succeeded in lifting tens of millions out of poverty. With all its faults, Thailand has been remarkably successful at raising the living standards of the population. Public health and public education, infrastructure and the general economy have improved a lot in the last half century. But by doing so, they opened Pandora's box. And unlike in China, the ruling elite of Thailand probably cannot stay ahead of the curve for much longer, COVID having cut their prospects of doing so. The unspoken deal was: improve the material condition of the multitude faster than their sense of entitlement for more. If that cannot be done well enough anymore, there will be trouble.

[OneMoreFarang]

59 minutes ago, tifino said:

and if have a Thai Mrs... 

 

rule 1: always let her 'think' she has won...

 

rule 2;  

 - There is a Right Way

  - There is a Wrong Way

 - and there is the Sommai Way

 

so just let her have it her way

I prefer if I have my way.

That doesn't mean I ignore my gf. But I am the captain of that ship...

[BobBKK]

When I first came here I used to get angry and frustrated (wasted energy I know) now I find it helpful to look at everyday Thais as 12 year-olds. I sleep better, don't get angry and am not frustrated. Thais who have travelled and are educated outside of Thailand are a totally different kettle of fish than everyday Somchais.