Govt Readies For Lawsuit Against Youtube

[tropo]

Well, what reason would the others have on your list for thinking that?

If you're asking me for a reason they are on my list, the list went up as an answer to another's question. Think about the question and give those countries a thought. So far only Taiwan has been questioned. It's strange that sonny CDRVIC didn't question why his own country was on the list.

Edited May 8, 2007 by tropo

[Totster]

Small reminder of what the topic is about...

Govt Readies For Lawsuit Against Youtube

Thanks for getting back on topic..

totster

[kmart]

Small reminder of what the topic is about...

Govt Readies For Lawsuit Against Youtube

Thanks for getting back on topic..

totster

Just out of personal vindictiveness, I hope youtube counter-sues and wins billions through some international court settlement.

[cdnvic]

A smart Thai enterpenuer should be setting up a Thai equivalent to YouTube that wouldn't suffer the international bandwidth issues.

[KhunMarco]

A smart Thai enterpenuer should be setting up a Thai equivalent to YouTube that wouldn't suffer the international bandwidth issues.

I vote for GovTube

[tropo]

Small reminder of what the topic is about...

Govt Readies For Lawsuit Against Youtube

Thanks for getting back on topic..

totster

You're welcome.

In actual fact the slanderous videos were against YouTube policy and should have been removed by Google and

Thailand's request should have been granted.

If anyone can get on there, they will find a video that has been posted on there done by a lady who explains it quite well.

We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked.

We would expect a much worse uproar if the profit Mohammed was mocked... some cartoons come to mind.

In the 2 cases above I'm sure the videos would have been removed within minutes of being posted.

Google, knowing the love and respect Thailand has for it's King should have respected their sensitivities.

Edited May 8, 2007 by tropo

[tropo]

A smart Thai enterpenuer should be setting up a Thai equivalent to YouTube that wouldn't suffer the international bandwidth issues.

There's a very nice online program called "KeepVid" that takes care of bandwidth issues for anyone who likes to view online videos from diifferent sites.

[cclub75]

We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked.

We would expect a much worse uproar if the profit Mohammed was mocked... some cartoons come to mind.

In the 2 cases above I'm sure the videos would have been removed within minutes of being posted.

Google, knowing the love and respect Thailand has for it's King should have respected their sensitivities.

First, you can't put on the same level the main religions and... a king.

Then, you're wrong. Many people around the world mock the pope, the prophet... From time to time (especially with muslim fellows) it create "uproar" as you say. But that's all.

The last case with the cartoons about Mahomet showed that clearly. Some groups (in France for instance) have tried -foolishly- to take action in justice.

They have lost. Of course.

So, to sum'up. If thailand is fool enough to start a justice process... in Thailand, they will win for sure. But what would be the point ?

And if they try outside (in the US), any school boy in 6th grade who want to become a lawyer could tell them that's... it's a dead end. A total dead end.

I don't even understand why we are talking about it in this thread.

[wintermute]

So, to sum'up. If thailand is fool enough to start a justice process... in Thailand, they will win for sure. But what would be the point ?

And if they try outside (in the US), any school boy in 6th grade who want to become a lawyer could tell them that's... it's a dead end. A total dead end.

I don't even understand why we are talking about it in this thread.

Thailand has zero leverage in the outside world. It relies on other countries to export its not very competitive labor intensive goods and annoying its biggest customer with petty nonsense will not go over well. This is especially true when a foreign country is trying to tamper with existing freedom of speech laws in the U.S. it won't just piss off conservatives but liberals as well. There will be a _significant_ backlash if Thailand makes it a spectacle.

[BAF]

We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked.

The present Pope Benedetto XVI (exactly like his predecessor Giovanni Paolo II) IS BEING mocked, caricaturated and generally made fun of in several prime time popular TV comic shows, newspapers and magazines.

Where is a "similar uproar"? Where is the censorship?

The same goes for Prodi, current PM, and the much hated by the predominantly leftist Italian media former PM Berlusconi. The same goes in the UK for its PM and its Royalty and the same everywhere else in the West and its leaders (and I won't even mention the treatment Bush gets from some American media...).

Where are "similar uproars"? Where is the censorship?

We are simply facing a prime example of one of the countless differences between 1st world Western democracies and 3rd world military juntas (ex wannabe banana republics)...

We would expect a much worse uproar if the profit Mohammed was mocked... some cartoons come to mind.

I wouldn't call "uproar" the blood and deaths our friendly and peaceful Muslim fellows managed to get out of some cartoons...

[tropo]

We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked.

The present Pope Benedetto XVI (exactly like his predecessor Giovanni Paolo II) IS BEING mocked, caricaturated and generally made fun of in several prime time popular TV comic shows, newspapers and magazines.

Where is a "similar uproar"? Where is the censorship?

The same goes for Prodi, current PM, and the much hated by the predominantly leftist Italian media former PM Berlusconi. The same goes in the UK for its PM and its Royalty and the same everywhere else in the West and its leaders (and I won't even mention the treatment Bush gets from some American media...).

Where are "similar uproars"? Where is the censorship?

We are simply facing a prime example of one of the countless differences between 1st world Western democracies and 3rd world military juntas (ex wannabe banana republics)...

We would expect a much worse uproar if the profit Mohammed was mocked... some cartoons come to mind.

I wouldn't call "uproar" the blood and deaths our friendly and peaceful Muslim fellows managed to get out of some cartoons...

You can't put a prime minister on the same level as Thailand's King...neither a president. These are short term elected officials, and never revered and usually they only have the support of less than half of the voters and are disliked/hated by the other half.

Are there videos mocking the Pope on YouTube?

Edited May 8, 2007 by tropo

[cclub75]

You took the time to type a reply, so it must be of interest to you.

?

You can put Thailand's King on the same level as the main religions within a country. i.e. Thailand's King is just as important to a Thai (maybe more) as the Pope would be to an Italian.

Again, you are confused. The Pope is not the chief, nor the king, nor the president of the italians. What's the link ?

On a philosophical, cultural, historical point of view, I persist, to compare the main monotheism like Catholicism, Islam, Judaism with a king, make no sense. At all.

Yes, I agree that legal action will be counterproductive.

Yes, I understand Thailand's outrage.

It seems that we are heading at full speed toward confrontation. The ICT minister said that he will press charges in a... bangkok tribunal !

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118618

Hopefully, ridicule doesn't kill (yet). But it's going to be very funny. Headlines : "Thailand prosecute YouTube : lese-majeste crime, 15 years of prison and 564545434 billions THB of fines."

And then you can be sure, that dozen more offensive videos, Mp3, photos will flourish on dozen websites. Worldwide.

And lastly, I would like to remind you a very important point about this whole non sense : nobody forces a thai citizen to look at the offensive videos on YouTube.

Like nobody force me to look inside your brain, in order to check if you like the King, the Pope, or Bugs Bunny. Because, maybe you don't ?

Freedom to think is linked to freedom to express thoughts.

[Tywais]

This is a reminder to members of the following forum rule (and a caution):

"Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden."

[tropo]

Again, you are confused. The Pope is not the chief, nor the king, nor the president of the italians. What's the link ?

On a philosophical, cultural, historical point of view, I persist, to compare the main monotheism like Catholicism, Islam, Judaism with a king, make no sense. At all.

You've been confused from the start.

I'm not making a worldwide comparison as to who is more important, the Pope or Thailand's King. I'm making a comparison between 2 important figures and how they affect the psyche of people within their sphere of influence.

[Dakhar]

We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked.

The present Pope Benedetto XVI (exactly like his predecessor Giovanni Paolo II) IS BEING mocked, caricaturated and generally made fun of in several prime time popular TV comic shows, newspapers and magazines.

Where is a "similar uproar"? Where is the censorship?

The same goes for Prodi, current PM, and the much hated by the predominantly leftist Italian media former PM Berlusconi. The same goes in the UK for its PM and its Royalty and the same everywhere else in the West and its leaders (and I won't even mention the treatment Bush gets from some American media...).

Where are "similar uproars"? Where is the censorship?

We are simply facing a prime example of one of the countless differences between 1st world Western democracies and 3rd world military juntas (ex wannabe banana republics)...

We would expect a much worse uproar if the profit Mohammed was mocked... some cartoons come to mind.

I wouldn't call "uproar" the blood and deaths our friendly and peaceful Muslim fellows managed to get out of some cartoons...

You can't put a prime minister on the same level as Thailand's King...neither a president. These are short term elected officials, and never revered and usually they only have the support of less than half of the voters and are disliked/hated by the other half.

Are there videos mocking the Pope on YouTube?

You CAN'T.... why not. Come now, why not. What is the ROOT of reverence toward anything? "Popular, it is the way things are....?" Break it down, and decipher it until you see.... what it is.

It is an unfortunate event, the king, as great as he is, is revered by Thais especially Thais within Thailand. There are a lot of folks in the world that does not even know where Thailand is, nor do they know Thialand has a monarchy. Folks just have to put things in perspective. I hope one day, the person that posted such inflamatory videos will become more broadened and respectful. But that is a hope. A lawsuit will not help, in fact it will only make Thailand look more like a joke.

No, all that can really be done is hope that this child never becomes Americas president. One more ignorant person in the ways of the world in that position will for sure ruin everything.

[tropo]

Sorry Taywais, my reply was posted within 30 seconds of your warning.

[frodo]

It seems that we are heading at full speed toward confrontation. The ICT minister said that he will press charges in a... bangkok tribunal !

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118618

From the above link, "That clip has long since been removed, and the surfer who uploaded it has been banned by YouTube. But because of the high profile publicity of Mr Sitthichai's censorship, at least a dozen other offensive video clips have been uploaded to YouTube.com."

Clearly, anything posted after the first offending video rests squarely on the ICT minister himself. Do these people ever think things thorough?

[BAF]

You can't put a prime minister on the same level as Thailand's King...neither a president. These are short term elected officials, and never revered and usually they only have the support of less than half of the voters and are disliked/hated by the other half.

Not every Western country has Royalty and/or prominent religious leading figures so I also mentioned the top leaders of those countries which have not Royalty nor prominent religious leading figures.

That must have confused you.

Here is a simplified version of my original reply, hope you answer this one without being sidetracked by PMs and Presidents and remaining focused on religious top leaders and Royalty.

Tropo: "We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked."

The present Pope Benedetto XVI (exactly like his predecessor Giovanni Paolo II) IS BEING mocked, caricaturated and generally made fun of in several prime time popular TV comic shows, newspapers and magazines.

Where is a "similar uproar"? Where is the censorship?

The same goes for the UK and its Royalty and all the other Western countries still with Royal figures I know of.

Where are "similar uproars"? Where is the censorship?

We are simply facing a prime example of one of the countless differences between 1st world Western democracies and 3rd world military juntas (ex wannabe banana republics)...

Are there videos mocking the Pope on YouTube?

It should take you no more than a couple of minutes to find out... Since you seem not to believe me what's better than seeing it for yourself?

Edited May 8, 2007 by BAF

[tropo]

There's no need to continually repeat yourself. You very obviously have poor comprehension ability therefore it's a waste of time replying endlessly to your gibber.

Just in case you didn't notice, as a result of a request/warning from a moderator I have discontinued discussing this subject as it is against the rules.

Edited May 8, 2007 by tropo

[sriracha john]

It seems that we are heading at full speed toward confrontation. The ICT minister said that he will press charges in a... bangkok tribunal !

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118618

From the above link, "That clip has long since been removed, and the surfer who uploaded it has been banned by YouTube. But because of the high profile publicity of Mr Sitthichai's censorship, at least a dozen other offensive video clips have been uploaded to YouTube.com."

Clearly, anything posted after the first offending video rests squarely on the ICT minister himself. Do these people ever think things thorough?

If Google capitulated and removed the original video and having since learned of the feelings of the Thai people, why do they not remove all the other similar videos and ban all other similar submitters and post a warning to all future abusers of their system? They can justifiably plead ignorance on the issue of the first one, but that excuse no longer washes.

They have nothing to gain from prolonging this continued controversy, except the revenue the attention generates.

[wintermute]

It seems that we are heading at full speed toward confrontation. The ICT minister said that he will press charges in a... bangkok tribunal !

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118618

From the above link, "That clip has long since been removed, and the surfer who uploaded it has been banned by YouTube. But because of the high profile publicity of Mr Sitthichai's censorship, at least a dozen other offensive video clips have been uploaded to YouTube.com."

Clearly, anything posted after the first offending video rests squarely on the ICT minister himself. Do these people ever think things thorough?

If Google capitulated and removed the original video and having since learned of the feelings of the Thai people, why do they not remove all the other similar videos and ban all other similar submitters and post a warning to all future abusers of their system? They can justifiably plead ignorance on the issue of the first one, but that excuse no longer washes.

They have nothing to gain from prolonging this continued controversy, except the revenue the attention generates.

Youtube has a pretty clearly laid out policy on what they will tolerate. They are an online service located in the U.S. and as such it is perfectly within their rights to operate according to sovreign U.S. laws. I remember there was an article where youtube offered to explain to the ministry how the service works and how to ban objectionable videos from Thailand if they so wish. Instead, we got lots of ranting and raving about "bullying" and what not from the minister.

Now the freedom of speech activists and amateur crap stirrers will rip into Thailand like never before if this becomes a bigger issue worldwide. I really don't understand how this government hopes to go about solving this matter without being made into a laughingstock. Look at it this way..even if Thailand succeeds in limited censorship from youtube it will seriously piss off a lot of "freedom of speech" internet activists.

[sriracha john]

It seems that we are heading at full speed toward confrontation. The ICT minister said that he will press charges in a... bangkok tribunal !

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118618

From the above link, "That clip has long since been removed, and the surfer who uploaded it has been banned by YouTube. But because of the high profile publicity of Mr Sitthichai's censorship, at least a dozen other offensive video clips have been uploaded to YouTube.com."

Clearly, anything posted after the first offending video rests squarely on the ICT minister himself. Do these people ever think things thorough?

If Google capitulated and removed the original video and having since learned of the feelings of the Thai people, why do they not remove all the other similar videos and ban all other similar submitters and post a warning to all future abusers of their system? They can justifiably plead ignorance on the issue of the first one, but that excuse no longer washes.

They have nothing to gain from prolonging this continued controversy, except the revenue the attention generates.

Youtube has a pretty clearly laid out policy on what they will tolerate. They are an online service located in the U.S. and as such it is perfectly within their rights to operate according to sovreign U.S. laws. I remember there was an article where youtube offered to explain to the ministry how the service works and how to ban objectionable videos from Thailand if they so wish. Instead, we got lots of ranting and raving about "bullying" and what not from the minister.

Now the freedom of speech activists and amateur crap stirrers will rip into Thailand like never before if this becomes a bigger issue worldwide. I really don't understand how this government hopes to go about solving this matter without being made into a laughingstock. Look at it this way..even if Thailand succeeds in limited censorship from youtube it will seriously piss off a lot of "freedom of speech" internet activists.

The whole "freedom of speech" is a red herring. They already kowtow to the Chinese on just about anything the Chinese government asks for which the quoted article above reports on.

They have a "report as objectionable" button (or words to that effect) to have videos removed, which, I assume, does have some function.

The point was not to ban the objectionable videos for Thailander's viewing, it is to have the videos removed in deference to practically an entire nation's wishes. I presume thousands clicked on that "report as objectionable" button to no avail. In the interests of common decency and respect for millions of other people's heart-felt outpouring and devotion, Google could have ended this all weeks ago.... but then they would have lost all revenue this has created.

The government's continued efforts may be considered a laughing stock in some people's minds... but in others', perhaps an awareness is being created on precisely how strongly the Thai people feel about their beloved King. That educational process is worth the effort.

I'd also proffer that ANY Thai government would be compelled by the populace to follow a similar course of action that the current one is pursuing.

[wintermute]

The government's continued efforts may be considered a laughing stock in some people's minds... but in others', perhaps an awareness is being created on precisely how strongly the Thai people feel about their beloved King. That educational process is worth the effort.

I'd also proffer that ANY Thai government would be compelled by the populace to follow a similar course of action that the current one is pursuing.

I'm sure that every country in the world has various cultural beliefs and esteemed icons that they consider untouchable. However, it is not the right of that country to attempt to enforce its beliefs on another sovereign nation who abides by its own cultural standards and laws. I will give Thais credit in that they are pursuing a largely legal avenue in resolving the issue but it will probably not make a bit of difference internationally. You have to remember that it's not just Thai culture that is at risk here by attempting to get youtube to self censor they are also offending the cultural sensibilities of a larger western cultural sensibility..which is the preservation of free speech.

Threatening U.S. freedom over the wishes of a small country will not go over well at all.

[sriracha john]

The government's continued efforts may be considered a laughing stock in some people's minds... but in others', perhaps an awareness is being created on precisely how strongly the Thai people feel about their beloved King. That educational process is worth the effort.

I'd also proffer that ANY Thai government would be compelled by the populace to follow a similar course of action that the current one is pursuing.

I'm sure that every country in the world has various cultural beliefs and esteemed icons that they consider untouchable.

Do they? Does the USA, for example, have someone that is so uniformly revered in a similar fashion? They don't. I haven't seen anyone or any country comparable mentioned in this thread that takes on a level that the Thais have for His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej. That is precisely what makes this issue a difficult one for Westerners to comprehend and why this educational process of showing others what that type of love is like is worth the effort.

However, it is not the right of that country to attempt to enforce its beliefs on another sovereign nation who abides by its own cultural standards and laws.

It's not a mutually-exclusive situation. From the beginning, it was simply a request for others to respect what a whole nation feels so strongly about. It's about having sensitivities for other peoples' deeply-rooted adorations. It is a true shame it has to be escalated to the point it has become when it could have been resolved on such a lower level, particularly when that escalation is rooted in marketing and profits.

I will give Thais credit in that they are pursuing a largely legal avenue in resolving the issue but it will probably not make a bit of difference internationally.

Perhaps it won't, but that attempt is worthwhile as educating the world as to what the Thai beliefs are is beneficial for all. As stated, it is regretful that the legal avenue is the only one in which many Western nations will respond to.

You have to remember that it's not just Thai culture that is at risk here by attempting to get youtube to self censor they are also offending the cultural sensibilities of a larger western cultural sensibility..which is the preservation of free speech.

Has YouTube ever deleted any video? Has their "report reprehensible video" button ever resulted in them pulling a video off the air? If it has, isn't that a curtailment of this so-called, over-played, subjective, and unevenly applied "free speech"? If it hasn't, why do they have it?

Threatening U.S. freedom over the wishes of a small country will not go over well at all.

I don't think a simple appeal for common decency threatens U.S. "freedom." I think the U.S. needs to be much more concerned about its "freedom" from such locally-produced entities as the Homeland Security Administration.

[sbk]

The government's continued efforts may be considered a laughing stock in some people's minds... but in others', perhaps an awareness is being created on precisely how strongly the Thai people feel about their beloved King. That educational process is worth the effort.

I'd also proffer that ANY Thai government would be compelled by the populace to follow a similar course of action that the current one is pursuing.

I'm sure that every country in the world has various cultural beliefs and esteemed icons that they consider untouchable. However, it is not the right of that country to attempt to enforce its beliefs on another sovereign nation who abides by its own cultural standards and laws. I will give Thais credit in that they are pursuing a largely legal avenue in resolving the issue but it will probably not make a bit of difference internationally. You have to remember that it's not just Thai culture that is at risk here by attempting to get youtube to self censor they are also offending the cultural sensibilities of a larger western cultural sensibility..which is the preservation of free speech.

Threatening U.S. freedom over the wishes of a small country will not go over well at all.

Google (which currently owns Youtube) self censors for China already and has done so for a year. See this BBC article for details.

[Dakhar]

Evidently goodle does not find the Thai market of huge value. Thus no censureship. So the sollution is to block access of google, if it does not want to play according to Thailands rules, or any other country for that matter.

There is no "bullying" going on. You no likey no takey.... pretty easy.

[cdnvic]

They don't have to block Google, just Googlesyndication.com so that people can still use Google but Google's ads won't show.

[sriracha john]

The government's continued efforts may be considered a laughing stock in some people's minds... but in others', perhaps an awareness is being created on precisely how strongly the Thai people feel about their beloved King. That educational process is worth the effort.

I'd also proffer that ANY Thai government would be compelled by the populace to follow a similar course of action that the current one is pursuing.

I'm sure that every country in the world has various cultural beliefs and esteemed icons that they consider untouchable.

Do they? Does the USA, for example, have someone that is so uniformly revered in a similar fashion? They don't. I haven't seen anyone or any country comparable mentioned in this thread that takes on a level that the Thais have for His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej. That is precisely what makes this issue a difficult one for Westerners to comprehend and why this educational process of showing others what that type of love is like is worth the effort.

However, it is not the right of that country to attempt to enforce its beliefs on another sovereign nation who abides by its own cultural standards and laws.

It's not a mutually-exclusive situation. From the beginning, it was simply a request for others to respect what a whole nation feels so strongly about. It's about having sensitivities for other peoples' deeply-rooted adorations. It is a true shame it has to be escalated to the point it has become when it could have been resolved on such a lower level, particularly when that escalation is rooted in marketing and profits.

I will give Thais credit in that they are pursuing a largely legal avenue in resolving the issue but it will probably not make a bit of difference internationally.

Perhaps it won't, but that attempt is worthwhile as educating the world as to what the Thai beliefs are is beneficial for all. As stated, it is regretful that the legal avenue is the only one in which many Western nations will respond to.

Education is such a wondrous thing...

Sittichai says Google blinks

The ICT minister said on Thursday that the search giant has promised to remove all anti-monarchy videos from the YouTube.com website, and has decided not to press charges against the US company. ICT Sitthichai Pokaiyaudom said he had received an official letter from a Google vice president saying that the US company did not want to promote hostile feelings over the video clips. Google's vice president Kent Walker wrote to Mr Sitthichai on Wednesday, officially informing the government that Google will remove the controversial Internet video clips from YouTube. The minister said that Google's vice president Kent Walker said in the letter that the company slogan is, "Don't do evil," and he did not want Google to become a source of hostile feeling regarding the King's video clips. The Google executive that it would take time to find all the video clips uploaded to YouTube, but said the clips could be removed.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=118657

[Plus]

One important thing has been missing from this thread - Thailand wanted to sue Youtube for breaking their own rules regarding inciting hatred.

That would have been easy to prove (just copy paste users' comments), and the mere threat seemed to work.

If Pope videos do not provoke the same response, they'll stay.

[Mid]

ten will get you five this removal don't fly .....................................