Stephen Phipson, chief executive of the manufacturer’s lobby group, Make UK, warned that many of the 2.7 million jobs supported by manufacturing businesses were heavily dependent on trade with the EU. “A no deal would be catastrophic for Britain.

 

Not a Remainer/Leaver comment...but someone with a grip on reality, unlike our nationalistic PM.

59 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Boris voted against the half-leaving , half-staying in deal , which wasnt really the Brexit people voted for 

 

How do you know what Brexit people voted for?

Just now, Rookiescot said:

 

How do you know what Brexit people voted for?

 

   The question was asked on the ballot voting forms

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   The question was asked on the ballot voting forms

Yes and on the ballot paper it did not state what type of Brexit you could have.

So I ask again. How do you know which version of Brexit people voted for?

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes and on the ballot paper it did not state what type of Brexit you could have.

So I ask again. How do you know which version of Brexit people voted for?

If it wasn't on the ballot paper it doesn't exist.

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

If it wasn't on the ballot paper it doesn't exist.

 

So everything that the leave campaign said was completely ignored by everyone who voted for Brexit then?

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The win in the referendum is not a guess.

Something evident since 24 June 2016.

No-one dispute this.

 

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So everything that the leave campaign said was completely ignored by everyone who voted for Brexit then?

Pretty much. You are just making up scenarios because it just suits your agenda. Do you agree that there were two choices on the ballot paper, 'leave or remain' and no matter how much you try and spin it at the end of the day those were the choices. No caveats like I want a Brexit with little pretty red bells on and smelling of lush lavender. I am afraid rookie only two choices.

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Pretty much. You are just making up scenarios because it just suits your agenda. Do you agree that there were two choices on the ballot paper, 'leave or remain' and no matter how much you try and spin it at the end of the day those were the choices. No caveats like I want a Brexit with little pretty red bells on and smelling of lush lavender. I am afraid rookie only two choices.

 

This is astonishing. You are claiming no-one who voted for Brexit did so because of what the vote leave campaign said?

So every time you quoted one of vote leaves meaningless slogans you were in fact completely ignoring vote leave?

????????????????????????????????

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

This is astonishing. You are claiming no-one who voted for Brexit did so because of what the vote leave campaign said?

So every time you quoted one of vote leaves meaningless slogans you were in fact completely ignoring vote leave?

????????????????????????????????

Two choices rookie, only two.????

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Two choices rookie, only two.????

So the choice was remain or leave with no deal because you all knew what you were voting for right?

The vote leave campaign was completely ignored by everyone who voted for Brexit because you all wanted no deal?

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

So the choice was remain or leave with no deal because you all knew what you were voting for right?

The vote leave campaign was completely ignored by everyone who voted for Brexit because you all wanted no deal?

There were two choices and you can but but but as much as you like but you will still end up with two choices.

I hope you guys are stocked up on fresh vegetables, wine and cheese, because by the end of January 2021 you will be on your knees for a deal or starving ????

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

because you all wanted no deal?

 

I don't know how much voters wanted a deal.

 

I know the U.K. government certainly wanted one from the very beginning till now.

 

They only will proclaim a non-deal today, because there is no consensus possible with the E.U..

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

No one is suggesting or expecting there to be a new cold war between the UK and the E.U.

There wont be another Iron Curtain going up 

And where did I say this? Let me just quote myself as you didn’t seem to have read what I wrote: 

 

5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It will never be done or over. Brexit is an illusion. European integration is a fact. Deeply integrated supply chains will not just change over night. British consumers will not just change over night. Criminals will not just change over night. There will be enormous pressure from all angles to strike a deal even after this deadline. In fact, the pressure will increase with each and every day. Expect that these negotiations will continue. 

 

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

There were two choices and you can but but but as much as you like but you will still end up with two choices.

 

So everyone who voted for Brexit wanted a no deal Brexit?

That is what you are saying? Yes or No?

Only two choices mind. 

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So everyone who voted for Brexit wanted a no deal Brexit?

That is what you are saying? Yes or No?

Only two choices mind. 

Those that voted for leave put a tick in the leave box and those that voted for remain put a tick in the remain box. Now that wasn't too difficult was it, anything else you are struggling with don't be afraid to ask.

Two choices.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

So the choice was remain or leave with no deal because you all knew what you were voting for right?

The vote leave campaign was completely ignored by everyone who voted for Brexit because you all wanted no deal?

We must have fallen through the rabbit hole. Pretty soon we'll bump into 'The Mad Hatter'. Logic has no place here.

48 minutes ago, vogie said:

Those that voted for leave put a tick in the leave box and those that voted for remain put a tick in the remain box. Now that wasn't too difficult was it, anything else you are struggling with don't be afraid to ask.

Two choices.

OK I will ask again. Voting leave meant leaving under what conditions?

The conditions laid out by the leave campaign or leaving with no deal?

The problem is as it goes deeper and deeper, it becomes harder and harder for the UK to strike a deal. 

 

They speak for me

 

Quote

“That’s not how Britain used to behave. Civilised countries who are meant to be close allies should not be reduced to this. I completely understand Britain leaving the EU, (...) , but this Brexit drama is now absurd. It appears that some British, people I normally respect enormously, have no idea what they are doing,”  

 

Quote

“Who would have thought the British would be threatening France with their military because nobody can agree on a trade deal?”

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/13/parisians-we-love-britains-culture-its-energy-its-people-its-sad-you-dont-love-us-too

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by onthedarkside
quotes beyond fair use limits removed

 

7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

If we consider some of the europosters on TVF as euro-typical, it’s not hard to understand our attitude. 

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

If we consider some of the europosters on TVF as euro-typical, it’s not hard to understand our attitude. 

well the paradox is Brexit did a fine job pushing for a united Europe and talks about other countries exiting have become marginal.

 

Quote

Even Marine Le Pen of the far-right Rassemblement National (formerly the Front National) – among the fiercest critics of the EU in France – has seen the way the Brexit wind has blown and stopped even mentioning Frexit.

 

 

another spectacular result was the fact that the UK "divide and conquer" strategy that usually work with European countries completely failed, the UE has not moved 

Quote

It is a centuries-old British narrative, reflected in recent headlines: “Le bust-up”, “France derails Brexit talks”. With elections approaching, Emmanuel Macron, under pressure from Marine Le Pen, is obviously playing hardball. Blame the French.

 

repeat " the sum total of 10 minutes discussing Brexit"

 

knowing how long discussions in the EU take this is nothing short of amazing

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/13/the-eus-red-lines-were-clear-in-2016

 

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by onthedarkside
quotes beyond fair use rules removed

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

If we consider some of the europosters on TVF as euro-typical, it’s not hard to understand our attitude. 

 

If we consider some of the Brexiters on TVF as typical Brits, it's impossible to understand why any Europeans would give us the time of day.

49 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

If we consider some of the Brexiters on TVF as typical Brits, it's impossible to understand why any Europeans would give us the time of day.

It’s not as if they do give us the time of day. They would want to impose European Central Time, then charge us for the use of it as part of their club. 

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

well the paradox is Brexit did a fine job pushing for a united Europe and talks about other countries exiting have become marginal.

Because Poland, Hungary, Italy, Greece and the rest are so united?

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Because Poland, Hungary, Italy, Greece and the rest are so united?

Well the EU is the political and economic union of 27 independent member states. independent.

 

 

Now I suppose you are one of those complaining the UK used to be "a slave" when it was a member.

 

 

 

Now what we are currently testing with Brexit is whether the United Kingdom is

1. more independent
2. or more "a slave"

now it's not a member anymore. In other terms whether is has gained in power, prosperity and sovereignty.

 

These last four years were a test of that now in the light of what you have seen, what do you think ?

33 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Well the EU is the political and economic union of 27 independent member states. independent.

 

 

Now I suppose you are one of those complaining the UK used to be "a slave" when it was a member.

 

 

 

Now what we are currently testing with Brexit is whether the United Kingdom is

1. more independent
2. or more "a slave"

now it's not a member anymore. In other terms whether is has gained in power, prosperity and sovereignty.

 

These last four years were a test of that now in the light of what you have seen, what do you think ?

How united are your 27 independent countries? Increasingly not is the answer, which is currently shown in their differing positions on various issues including Brexit. I think the divisions will only be exacerbated after our contributions disappear and trade is reduced.

 

As for your attempted deflection to ‘slave’ nonsense, .....well you can amuse yourself with that. 

4 minutes ago, Loiner said:

How united are your 27 independent countries? Increasingly not is the answer, which is currently shown in their differing positions on various issues including Brexit. I think the divisions will only be exacerbated after our contributions disappear and trade is reduced.

 

do you think the divisions will be exacerbated? Or did you hope the divisions will be exacerbated?

 

As expected with a union of independent members, plenty of divisions remain and the least you can say is the road is ... bumpy.

 

 

Now in the UE what we have seen these past years is nothing short of remarkable .

1. If you look at Brexit, the 27 made a unique show of coordination (credit for this is largely due to Barnier)
2. If you look at Covid-19 the fact EU leaders have agreed to a recovery package of €1.8 trillion that combines the EU budget for 2021-27 and borrowing €750 billion with a common debt.

 

Ironically, Brexit achieved exactly the opposite of what it was meant to do.

 

 

Now I ask again, in the light of these last 4 years do you ascertain the UK has gained in power, prosperity and sovereignty? Did you see the 27 quarrel over Brexit?

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

do you think the divisions will be exacerbated? Or did you hope the divisions will be exacerbated?

 

As expected with a union of independent members, plenty of divisions remain and the least you can say is the road is ... bumpy.

 

 

Now in the UE what we have seen these past years is nothing short of remarkable .

1. If you look at Brexit, the 27 made a unique show of coordination (credit for this is largely due to Barnier)
2. If you look at Covid-19 the fact EU leaders have agreed to a recovery package of €1.8 trillion that combines the EU budget for 2021-27 and borrowing €750 billion with a common debt.

 

Ironically, Brexit achieved exactly the opposite of what it was meant to do.

 

 

Now I ask again, in the light of these last 4 years do you ascertain the UK has gained in power, prosperity and sovereignty? Did you see the 27 quarrel over Brexit?

 

 

 

Yes I think the divisions will be exacerbated. That’s what I wrote. 

 

They are quarrelling over Brexit and couldn’t agree their covid budget. That division will increase. Not only bumpy, but I hope, the rocky road to ruin for the EU. 

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

They are quarrelling over Brexit

sources welcome

 

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

couldn’t agree their covid budget.

sources not needed ????