Settlement Visa For U.k.

[charles601]

The interview was scheduled for one o’clock in the afternoon. At the gate I was at first refused entry because it was an interview with my wife but after confusing the guard man he gave up and waved me through. At two-thirty she was told to go into interview room three. She took in the three papers that had been asked for including proof of pregnancy, a letter from my mother stating that she was happy to have her live in our house and the letter inviting her for the interview. She also had the letter from the police which stated that she was of no threat to the community

Where did you meet your husband?

In Pataya

That wasn’t a good start was it? How did you meet him?

At work

How?

He was a customer and I asked him some questions. And then he invited me out for dinner

Why did you agree?

Because he was kind, helpful and polite

Was that a good reason for meeting him again? He is much older than you

No, not just that. I wanted to know more about him and he was kind enough to help me. I didn’t mind the age difference

What is your job exactly?

Property

What do you mean?

Time-sharing

Are people still buying?

Yes, not many but I get a commission

Did you have a boyfriend before?

Yes

What nationality?

English

Why do always choose foreigners?

I don’t. I didn’t mind whether my boyfriend was Thai or a

Foreigner

Why did you finish with him?

We had little in common to talk about

When did you finish with him?

At the beginning of last year, before I met my husband

How long were you with your previous boyfriend?

Only about a month, during his holiday

Has your husband been married before?

Yes

Who with?

A Japanese lady

Do they have any children?

No

Have you been married before?

No

Why did he divorce?

I don’t know

He never told you why?

No we have never talked about it

But a husband and wife usually talk about such things

Well I do know she is Japanese and that they had divorced before I met him

How long did they stay together?

About six years

Where is she now?

She is in England

Is she still in England even now?

Yes

Why does your husband live with his mother?

Because he is renting out his own house so he can take care of his mother

When your husband visits Thailand who looks after her?

His sister and family friends

What is your husband’s job?

He is a photographer. He takes photographs for calendars and postcards and sells them in shops

Is he freelance? Does he work for himself?

Yes

What will happen if he cannot sell and his business fails?

I don’t know and I have never thought about it

Why did you both wait for six months to apply for a visa?

We wanted to take time to prepare

But why six months? It can be done in one day. It isn’t difficult

I really don’t know but you can ask him. He is outside

Outside where?

In the waiting room

How did he get in? What did he say to the guard man to get himself in?

I think he said that his wife is having an interview and that he wants to come in

Just that? And the guard man let him in? Call him in now

I am called in and now answer her questions

How did you get in?

Through the main gate

Is there some reason for coming in?

To answer any questions you may have

Don’t you know that it is only your wife that can be interviewed?

Well on the website it does say that the husband and wife may be interviewed separately and their answers compared.

Did the guard tell you to go through?

Well yes and no

What do you mean?

First he said no but after I had explained that I may be needed he let me come through

Where were you divorced?

In Japan

Why not in England?

Because we only married in Japan and did not register it in England

Where is your ex-wife?

In England

Where are your children?

I don’t have any children

Then why is she still in England if you have divorced?

Because her visa allows her to do so

But if you divorce you must inform the Home Office

I thought she did

But it is your responsibility to inform the Home Office. You were responsible for taking her into England

I thought that because she herself had informed them that that was enough

I can’t believe that a man of your age did not think it his responsibility to let the Home Office know that you and your wife have divorced. What is her status now?

She came in on a Leave to Enter visa

And now?

I am not sure

How is it that you don’t know?

Because we are divorced we don’t talk much

Where is she living?

In Cambridge

Give me her details? Write them down

What is she doing?

She is working and studying and is not receiving any public funds

You don’t seem to tell your wife about much do you?

How do you mean?

She doesn’t know much about your finances or previous marriage

Yes

Doesn’t a married couple discuss these things?

Yes I suppose so

But you haven’t?

No

Have you filed a proper tax return?

Yes, through an accountant

Do you have them here?

No I don’t

How much do you make a year?

From the rent on my house about £14,000 and the income from photography about £7,000.So in total £21,000

Please wait outside while I consider your application

After ten minutes we are called in again

I have considered your application and although I am prepared to believe that you have enough finances to support your wife in England I am not satisfied that this paper which has been translated into English is proof that you have divorced and therefore that your present marriage is legal under U.K. law. This paper does not show where the divorce took place

But on the bottom right it has the address in Japan

But where is the date? You can read Japanese. Where does it say on this bit

That is the Official Stamp you are looking at and what it says is that it is the Official Stamp. The date is actually written in English on the translation paper

Please wait here. I am going to consult my manager

A few minutes later

No I am sorry. I have shown my manger this paper twice and it is not enough to prove that you are divorced and on that basis I must refuse the application. However if within the next few days you can find proof enough to convince me that you have divorced then we will reconsider. I am giving you an appeal form and the reasons for the failure of your application. Otherwise you may re-submit your application again and start the whole process once more

Her report:

You have submitted a document today written in Japanese, your spouse has stated that this is a divorce certificate issued in Japan to his ex-wife in March 2006. However he has also said that his ex-wife is resident in the United Kingdom and that she travelled to Japan in order to obtain a divorce. He further stated that he signed some papers to this end but was vague on the details. I note that 2 letters accompany the Japanese document, stamped by the Japanese consulate in London. These state that they are a true copy and mention a divorce between your now husband and his ex-wife. However it is not clear where the divorce was obtained. The Japanese document states his wife’s domicile is in Japan, in Osaka. As he has stated she is still resident in the U.K. We are not satisfied that under U.K.law this divorce is acceptable by the U.K.authorities. As such it calls into question the legality of your marriage.. I am not satisfied that you have contracted a valid marriage for the purposes of U.K. immigration law. And as such I am not able to issue you with a settlement visa based on this fact. I am satisfied that your relationship is subsisting and that your sponsor is able to maintain and support you in the United Kingdom. However as previously stated I am unable to establish if your marriage is legal and consequently I refuse your application.

This meant that the official divorce paper which was issued by the Japanese and which had then been translated by the Japanese Embassy and stamped on every page with it’s official seal and furthermore certified as being a true translation using the same official stamp was not being accepted by the British authorities as being proof of divorce in Japan. This paper was specifically issued by the Japanese Embassy to certify the divorce of a British national from a Japanese national for the use in cases where that British national wishes to re-marry. In other words the British immigration authorities were insinuating that an official document provided by the Japanese Government was not to be trusted. After a couple of phone calls and a visit to the Japanese Embassy in Bangkok I composed the following letter in an internet café, had it printed out and then delivered it to the British Embassy in a brown envelope and addressed to the Entry Clearance section.

In regard to the application for Right of Abode by Somrutai Holland

Dear Madam,

As a result of the interview held at the British Embassy here in Bangkok yesterday which commenced at one o’clock my wife has been refused entry clearance for the Right of Abode but has been allowed to appeal. The reason for the denial is that the documents supplied by me relating to my divorce are insufficient proof that the divorce occurred or, if it did, whether it was done in Japan. The documents in question are the original divorce paper written in Japanese and issued at the same Ward Office as where the original marriage was registered, the translation of this document and the certification that the translation is accurate. The translation and the certification were carried out by the Japanese Embassy in London and have as such the Official Embassy Seal stamped across the three papers. I wish to prove to you that these documents are sufficient proof that I have divorced in Japan because as you have stated in your review, without such proof then my present marriage would not, if that were the case, be legal.

To that end I have this morning visited the Japanese Embassy in Bangkok to explain that the papers that were issued at the Japanese Embassy in London do not fully substantiate the claim that I am divorced. They were a little surprised and perturbed because these papers were specifically drawn up for use in cases such as mine where a British subject who has previously married and subsequently been divorced from a Japanese national can have proof of such divorce in order to be able to re-marry. They feel that there is no further proof needed or necessary. They point out that the Japanese Ward Office address at which the divorce was accepted is plainly printed at the bottom right of the translation paper. They did mention that they would be very happy to receive a call from the British Embassy to confirm the authenticity of the papers.

It may be worthwhile if I contact the Japanese Embassy in London to ask for further proof that the document they have issued is authentic. This would then help prevent such a situation arising in the future.

Later this morning I telephoned the British Consul in Osaka and explained the situation. I will now book a flight to Japan so that they can confirm that the three documents are proof of my divorce. I may ask them to officially re-translate the papers again. They have offered to call the British Embassy in Bangkok to clear up any confusion.

Beyond this I am at a loss as to how to provide the proof that you require. I hope my efforts will be enough to allow you to re-consider my divorce status and therefore the validity of my present marriage and from that to a reconsideration of the application for Right of Abode by my wife.

Two hours later I got a call from the British Embassy to say that they had reconsidered and a Settlement Visa would be issued the next day

[erikr_]

Another fine example of the rude questioning of the BE in Bangkok. The remark after q1 is outrageous and it would be interesting to see if this is again our famous small indian looking ECO friend (SC initials on the interview).

Well at least you got it turned around but it is rediculous how this post feels they can create their own interpretation of rules and regulations.

Another fine example of the lack of leadership from Mrs Howard on correcting her ECO's.

[the gent]

The OP is to be commended for his efforts in resolving the application and for reporting the illuminating anecdote to the forum. A complaint to the Ambassador would also be well founded enquiring as to why his visa section can manage to be both so incompetent and ignorant of their powers under which they purport to operate.

I have examined the various bits of legislation and nowhere does it stipulate that a sponsor is required by law to advise the Home Office, or otherwise, of divorce proceedings in post settlement cases. Applications for leave to remain on the basis of partnership all depend upon the sponsor's support and obviously none will be granted unless that is forthcoming. But that is not to say that the sponsor is obligated to notify the Home Office of a deterioration in the relationship in the event that both parties become so estranged to the point that he or she simply walks away and and has nothing further to do with their former partner. Furthermore, once someone obtains indefinite leave to remain on the basis of a successful partnership there is no requirement to notify the Home Office of a breakdown in that relationship.The ECO was simply making it up as she was going along, a bullying tactic for which she should be held to account and for the appalling interview generally.

The fact that they got their knickers in a twist over the foreign divorce will not surprise anyone here since shooting from the hip in these cases is something of a speciality of a visa section that already enjoys a reputation for cowboy tactics.

[taxexile]

this interview record , and the subsequent decision just re-confirm all my prejudices regarding the officiousness , pompousness , incompetence and ignorance of the pen pushers and jobsworths who purport to represent our government and serve the people.

disgraceful.

Edited May 8, 2007 by taxexile

[the gent]

Tax,

A fish rots from the head down. Generally speaking, one could reasonably argue that the current British civil service is simply maintaining an abysmal standard set by the worst government ever to inflict itself upon Blighty and in turn the responsibility for that must lie with the electorate.

Ultimately, we get what we deserve. Gosh, I rather think I'm having one of me Buddhist moments.....

[topdjdel]

Tax,

A fish rots from the head down. Generally speaking, one could reasonably argue that the current British civil service is simply maintaining an abysmal standard set by the worst government ever to inflict itself upon Blighty and in turn the responsibility for that must lie with the electorate.

Ultimately, we get what we deserve. Gosh, I rather think I'm having one of me Buddhist moments.....

Quality!!!

Well done to the OP for beating them .....s well I won't swear but you all know what i mean.

fair play for for getting interview transcripted I bet if they knew such had been done they would be going nuts.LOVE IT!!!

delboy

[Maizefarmer]

Where did you meet your husband?

In Pataya

That wasn’t a good start was it? How did you meet him?

You're kidding r u - was that really said - you have this recorded (strong suggestion to all - send your other half in with a recorder of some sort)?

Outrageous!