What Breed For A House Guard Dog?

sceadugenga · May 23, 2007

I recommend the marvelous Yoyo dog, barks like a Doberman ans eats like a terrier. Trouble is he's a one off. I'd consider offering his services as a stud though as long as the fee was right. (If he was agreeable of course. )

Nienke · May 23, 2007

As an avid dog fan and retired zoo curator amongst other things,I have learned through 40 years that there is NO animal !! dogs included! that does not bite!!for a while in the late 70,s I ran a Behavioral Studycentre in Germany for dogs that had attacked and bitten people, all dogs are different and even 5 pups from the same litter can turn out all shapes and sizes and temperaments,so its always a case of live and learn with every new puppy,my grandad had a battle scarred jack russell terrier, who would fight anything no matter how big,but never so much as nipped us kids, but none of the pups that he sired were as brave as he was,all dogs can be trained, just be firm, show them who is boss the dog will mentally show you the Finger and carry on doing what it wants to do!! Nignoy

You certainly have had a very interesting carriere, IMO

All dogs can be trained, but even then not all dogs are safe to have in area's where there are (lots of) people.

I once joined a behavioral test, at a highly respected behavioral center in Holland, with a 1-year old Rottweiler, fully trained according positive reinforcement and being extremely firm, clear and fair to the animal. This dog was so confident, he even at that age didn't need nobody but dealt with his own issues in not the friendliest way. He was a living time bomb, and the advice was euthanesia .

Nienke

Jet Gorgon · May 23, 2007

No way, Nienke!

I never put a dog down for anything, and my Thai vet wouldn't either. Pain killers and rocking in my arms til he/she went to Rainbow Bridge -- that was the way I did it for any of my brood that took deathly ill. Bad children got house duty and outside only on a lead until they sort of learned to obey.

sbk · May 23, 2007

She's a beauty, Sbk. Can you give us a face shot?

Of course

She is a lovely dog, great temperment. Tough as nails and never a day ill.

elfe · May 23, 2007

my small personal experience is, that every single dog is different and has to be learnt and read and trained. most dogs would bark at visitors outside the gate, but as has been said there are some overfriendly breeds as goldens or dalmatians which would slobber every intruder to pieces. one of my goldens though, an older male, makes such a heck when someone is outside, he really looks frightening. but as soon as someone is inside - well that's another thing

maybe i was just lucky, but all of my 52 dogs here are wonderful, friendly and lovely. some make a big fuss if somebody wants to come in but they won't attack if people come in, at least as long as i'm there. they all stay together only separated through one fence which halves the pack, as some of the females like to chase each other and it is more convenient to seperate them. but most of the dogs can go in both 'compounds'.

one of my males though, a pit-stray-mix, caused me some nerves as if it comes to fights, even minor aggressions between others, once he went off he wouldn't stop, even the other dog is submissive. he hardly ever starts fights himself, just joins and then really bites, which the others don't. since i keep him in the compound where my terrace doors are always open and he can stay with me all the time, he is fine and not even needs a muzzle anymore. if there are little fights between others he just looks at me and i give him the no-no look and that is all it takes. i spend more time with him now and communicate/train more with him and it seems this does the trick, he's more confident and less interested in the others. he plays puppy-like with the others and is very sweet, even with the 8 week old puppies or other adult males, that was always the case, but fights (which usually are rare and minor with no bloodshed) seemed to trigger him...

Nienke · May 23, 2007

No way, Nienke!
I never put a dog down for anything, and my Thai vet wouldn't either. Pain killers and rocking in my arms til he/she went to Rainbow Bridge -- that was the way I did it for any of my brood that took deathly ill. Bad children got house duty and outside only on a lead until they sort of learned to obey.

Although, thank goodness highly exceptional, there are dogs that even with the best possible authoritative owner/trainer, are just plain dangerous.

I've seen this dog (was not mine), I've seen his behavior, and I heard first hand what he was capable of. That's why the owner went for behavioral counseling in the first place. This dog was really dangerous by character, not made. It was not a fear biter, not at all. This dog was highly confident, and could/would even direct his aggression to his own owner.

Even, when the owner would have continued training (positive way) and kept him under very strict authority, this dog could attack/correct anyone (including the owner) at any moment, just one can't be alert 24/7. Options are to have the dog muzzled at all times, also when in the house with the owner, and/or keep him sedated for the rest of his life. Not very humane options, I think.

The behavioral center is extremely good and has many succes stories. They are not the kind that easily will suggest euthanesia, but will look at all possible options and do anything in their power to safe the dog, provided that it is safe for human and animal society as well.

Keeping such a dog in a society with many people and childeren, is very irresponsible.

Nienke

Nignoy · May 23, 2007

No way, Nienke!
I never put a dog down for anything, and my Thai vet wouldn't either. Pain killers and rocking in my arms til he/she went to Rainbow Bridge -- that was the way I did it for any of my brood that took deathly ill. Bad children got house duty and outside only on a lead until they sort of learned to obey.

Although, thank goodness highly exceptional, there are dogs that even with the best possible authoritative owner/trainer, are just plain dangerous.

I've seen this dog (was not mine), I've seen his behavior, and I heard first hand what he was capable of. That's why the owner went for behavioral counseling in the first place. This dog was really dangerous by character, not made. It was not a fear biter, not at all. This dog was highly confident, and could/would even direct his aggression to his own owner.

Even, when the owner would have continued training (positive way) and kept him under very strict authority, this dog could attack/correct anyone (including the owner) at any moment, just one can't be alert 24/7. Options are to have the dog muzzled at all times, also when in the house with the owner, and/or keep him sedated for the rest of his life. Not very humane options, I think.

The behavioral center is extremely good and has many succes stories. They are not the kind that easily will suggest euthanesia, but will look at all possible options and do anything in their power to safe the dog, provided that it is safe for human and animal society as well.

Keeping such a dog in a society with many people and childeren, is very irresponsible.

Nienke

The German behavioral centre is still going as far as I know, dogs there are kept till their problems are sorted or till the end of their lives , no healthy dog is euthanised whatever permanent problem it has,only dog I saw euthanised was a self mutilator, I was also in charge of selection and testing of Wardogs for the dutch army and airforce , in Hessisch Oldendorf and Eindhoven, we also set up the facility for retired Bouvier des Flandres in Roetgen near Aachen, my feeling is if the breeding of dogs were controlled and selective like it still is with certain breeds in europe, we would not have so many problems

Nignoy

Jet Gorgon · May 23, 2007

Understood, Gentlemen. I see what you mean Nienke. I do agree with you there.

Maigo6 · May 23, 2007

My Thai dog " Mio "

Jet Gorgon · May 23, 2007

Maigo, he's a Thai ridge cross. good boy! Good choice!

Maigo6 · May 23, 2007

Maigo, he's a Thai ridge cross. good boy! Good choice!

Yeah, he's a good dog, I thought he had some Ridge Back in him as a Thai guy I know has a pure ridgeback and " Mio" has the same facial features and very nearly the same size, he's great at hunting lizards and keeps my property free of snakes and scorpions too.

I have 2 other dogs also..

"Sulu" She is the first to run to the gate if and bark if she see's any strangers.

And " Fino ", she is a puppy in the pic, now she is bigger than the Ridgeback

Jet Gorgon · May 24, 2007

Awwww! I have seen many of Sulu's family in Thailand. Good gate alarms and such happy mutts, too. Sulu always had one up, one down? (ears) My fav.

You must post a recent pic of Fino, Maigo. I'm such a sucker for puppies and what they grow up to be. Just don't show me human baby photos.

Nienke · May 24, 2007

The German behavioral centre is still going as far as I know, dogs there are kept till their problems are sorted or till the end of their lives, no healthy dog is euthanised whatever permanent problem it has,only dog I saw euthanised was a self mutilator, I was also in charge of selection and testing of Wardogs for the dutch army and airforce , in Hessisch Oldendorf and Eindhoven, we also set up the facility for retired Bouvier des Flandres in Roetgen near Aachen, my feeling is if the breeding of dogs were controlled and selective like it still is with certain breeds in europe, we would not have so many problems Nignoy

I absolutely agree there, although I would like to change <quote> like it still is with certain breeds <unquote> into " like still some responsible breeders do"

One example of uncontrolled breeding in Thailand is the Ban Kaew breed. A really wonderful breed, IMO, but too much aggression problems. One of the causes (again IMO) is the breeding.

In Holland there was a lady who bred Fila Brasilero's. She wanted to breed the agression out of this breed and make them more suitable as pet-dog in 'my' over-crowded country. She got a huge amount of opposition of the club, because it was not according the standard of the breed. I think she was even kicked out of that club.

Personally, I though it was a very good thing to do, especailly because the Fila has 'orange' light or (I don't remember the details) is even has red light, i.e. is on the black list of dangerous dogs. She did an attempt to safe this breed from being banned.

Nienke

Nienke · May 24, 2007

The German behavioral centre is still going as far as I know, dogs there are kept till their problems are sorted or till the end of their lives , no healthy dog is euthanised whatever permanent problem it has,only dog I saw euthanised was a self mutilator, I was also in charge of selection and testing of Wardogs for the dutch army and airforce , in Hessisch Oldendorf and Eindhoven, we also set up the facility for retired Bouvier des Flandres in Roetgen near Aachen, my feeling is if the breeding of dogs were controlled and selective like it still is with certain breeds in europe, we would not have so many problems Nignoy

You say first that 'all dogs are kept till their problems are sorted out'. That certainly is a good thing, don't dispute that. However, even then it still doesn't always work out.

Another example from the same behavioral center I mentioned before.

There was this bouvier who attacked viciously people. When for the first time at the center he even tried to jump over a pretty high counter to go for the throat of the trainer (who at that moment did not have any interaction with the dog). It turned out the underlying feeling of this dog was fear, who had gained lots of confidence thru his aggressive behavior.

This dog's behavior was step-by-step modified into a nice dog that could live a good life in human society. They took the dog into busy shopping centers, have people pet the dog etc. However, one day (I think at the vet's even) someone made a mistake (again the details I can't recall, those bl*** brains of mine). It was really a human error (something like approaching the dog in a very sudden way from the front and then correcting the dog in a not too friendly way. Something one shouldn't do with any dog), and all the old fear popped up again. This vet immediately suggested euthanesia, very insistently. And the owner, completely over-ruled, agreed.

The center was devastated, especially the trainer who had worked so intensively with this dog and had brought it back to normality. They said, it should not have been this way, with some more guidance the dog could have lived a normal happy life with his owner again.

What I wanted to say with this example is that there always so much this human factor is involved. The bouvier in the example was in fact a fear biter. The rottweiler in the other example was a confident dominant aggressive biter already at (only) one year old, not even full-grown yet, still in his puberties; not suitable in human society.

It could be this is the kind of dog police or 'the soldiers' would like to have (I have not enough knowledge on that). But then, I'm the kind of person who really wouldn't like that, both for the dog as well as for the victim/s

And, to keep such a dog kenneled for the rest of his life, even when there is a big playfield and the like ... well, I'm not so sure if that would really be humane (IMO).

Nienke

Jet Gorgon · May 24, 2007

Great comments, Nienke. I forget, which dogs were used for bear baiting forums way back? The real aggressive dogs.

Anyway, I also think some Ban Kaews can be overaggressive and protective of their family. But so were my noodle soup mutts.

Mobi · May 24, 2007

"COOKIE" - The best guard dog in the world

She'll lick them them all to death

Nignoy · May 24, 2007

"COOKIE" - The best guard dog in the world

She'll lick them them all to death

THe Only type of dog to have , My respect

Nignoy

Jet Gorgon · May 24, 2007

[she is a lovely dog, great temperment. Tough as nails and never a day ill.

Huh, I missed this snap before. She is a looker. But she seems like she's posing for her passport photo (no smiling).

Mobi, how often do you have to brush Cookie? The name is very fitting, BTW.

Sheryl · May 24, 2007

I too vote for Chihuahuas. Don't let their small size fool you, they are zealous to a fault in guarding their property.

I had some serious security problems and acquired one about a month ago. Let me tell you, NOBODY gets near my door now without my knowing about it well in advance, and he's even got the woman who comes in daily to clean afraid to try unless she knows I've got him on a leash.

Besides barking up a storm, these little ones will nip ankles and physically place themselves between the would be intruder (or, alas, expected visitor) and the door and not budge.

I don't know about all Chihuahuas, but mine only barks when a person tries to enter the premises (or looks like they may), he doesn't bark at other dogs etc, which is nice...some dogs bark at almost everything which not only makes a racket but also makes it hard to know when to be concerned.

Thaddeus · May 24, 2007

And, to keep such a dog kenneled for the rest of his life, even when there is a big playfield and the like ... well, I'm not so sure if that would really be humane (IMO).
Nienke

Good post Nignoy... only quoted that last part as it the fitting part for what I am about to say.

The day after our house blessing party, we were one dog too many, at the time we wondered why anybody could abandon this beautiful boy, he was fit, he was healthy, obviously well fed and he had the markings of a tiger, so we named him as such (hello Tiggy )

I would estimate that he was around two years old and at first he settled into the pack that we had already (he was biding his time) then he started to assert himself, viciously. (if anyone remembers the film 'Scum' it would not surprise me if this dog could say "where's your ******** tool?"")..... he was trying to be the daddy now.

He started to get very violent for no reason that I could see and we decided that he could not live with us, we started to chase him away from the house using sticks and small stones.... one day I grabbed him by the scruff and drove one handed around 5 clicks on the motorcy and dumped him.... he found his way back...... and because we didn't really want to use the services of the doggy-wagon, we thought that we would give him one more chance.

It took a day for him to attack me and the only thought I had at the time was "I've got a five year old daughter" .... he is now several handbags..... and we got two plastic buckets for him (which have since broken)

There are three sorts of dog generally speaking.

1. Total psychos (very few)

2. Potential psychos (a few, but not that many)

3. Who's a good boy/girl (the vast majority)

Number one are very few in number, Suer was one of them. The number twos are created by us via mistreatment, number three can be any dog (apart from pit-bulls) a defender of territory and a faithful friend.

jdinasia · May 24, 2007

I too vote for Chihuahuas. Don't let their small size fool you, they are zealous to a fault in guarding their property.
I had some serious security problems and acquired one about a month ago. Let me tell you, NOBODY gets near my door now without my knowing about it well in advance, and he's even got the woman who comes in daily to clean afraid to try unless she knows I've got him on a leash.

Besides barking up a storm, these little ones will nip ankles and physically place themselves between the would be intruder (or, alas, expected visitor) and the door and not budge.

I don't know about all Chihuahuas, but mine only barks when a person tries to enter the premises (or looks like they may), he doesn't bark at other dogs etc, which is nice...some dogs bark at almost everything which not only makes a racket but also makes it hard to know when to be concerned.

ModDam has only had her voice a little while ... she's 10 months old. But she will growl at intruders in the yard and bark at cats on the porch ... and wag her tail so hard it's her butt that moves when the maid comes! She may even be overly socialised .. as I take her most places with me. I go out for a few beers ... there she is ... I fly to BKK ... she comes along. She's fantastic with dogs but she thinks they ALL want to play! So I have to be careful about that!

She is a bundle ... but the happiest dog I have ever had!

Mobi · May 24, 2007

[she is a lovely dog, great temperment. Tough as nails and never a day ill.

Huh, I missed this snap before. She is a looker. But she seems like she's posing for her passport photo (no smiling).

Mobi, how often do you have to brush Cookie? The name is very fitting, BTW.

How about this - I asked her to smile for Jet

I don't know how often I'm supposed to brush Cookie, but I do it once a day, after breakfast on the terrace - back, tummy, everywhere. She loves it - as soon as she sees me pick up the brush she comes running and stands patiently while I do the grooming. Then we repair to my office where she lolls in air conditioned comfort until sunset.