Pattaya to rebrand for sustainable growth

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

I think Grand Centre Point 2 going up in  Wong Amat/Naklua will also have these types of facilities also, as does, I believe, the fairly new Mytt Hotel.  

We struggled to find a new venue for the club, but from what you say hotels have latched on to this idea that  large convention venues fill the hotel up with people on expense accounts and in these times, that is lucrative. A shift from the foreign tourism market. 

[smiggley]

I remember checking when I used one on the fireworks night,  Thais were paying the same price, another false belief dispelled!

Sorry Jacko no one metioned dual pricing I only mentioned the price doubling because of no customers.

[Trip Hop]

On 12/26/2020 at 2:57 AM, newnative said:

But, they never explain why a dying Pattaya is attracting so much new private industry development--even now.  

The same reason that it always has, it’s one big massive laundromat!

 

Forget new water parks and shows, little things like collecting the garbage regularly and putting the road drains in the low spot of the road would be a better start? By the amount of times that the beach has been washed away by flooding, I would have thought that they would have realised that water flows downhill, not up? ????

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Trip Hop said:

The same reason that it always has, it’s one big massive laundromat!

 

Forget new water parks and shows, little things like collecting the garbage regularly and putting the road drains in the low spot of the road would be a better start? By the amount of times that the beach has been washed away by flooding, I would have thought that they would have realised that water flows downhill, not up? ????

     Ah, yes.  Use that as a reason when all else fails.  That's what all the name brand hotels are doing?  All the publicly-traded Bangkok developers, all the name brand auto dealers, all the chain restaurants, all the water parks, golf courses, etc., all the retail stores with their new stores, all the entertainments, theaters, and the two, huge, branded malls?  Really lame as a reason. 

    My garbage is picked up regularly where I am and the new garbage collection service the city has hired looks professional--we were behind one their trucks the other day.   Flooding is being worked on, a problem not just in Pattaya but in other cities in Thailand, including Bangkok.  Yes, small parts of the beach still wash away in very heavy rains; it's fixed quickly and the important beach asset is back to looking great. 

    And, here's the thing.  All of your gripes are meaningless to a typical tourist.  Garbage collection, beach erosion, and flooding are things a resident cares about, not a tourist.  When I decided to visit Hanoi, I didn't research how good the garbage collection was before booking my trip.  Ditto beach erosion on Bondi Beach with the Australian trip.  A chance of flooding in Venice didn't prevent me from going.  Apparently, same for the 15 million tourists that visited in 2019.

[foreverlomsak]

On 12/25/2020 at 3:15 PM, champers said:

I'm still waiting for the grand opening of the underground toilets on Beach Road, promised by the end of this year.

There like the underground gambling casinos that nobody can find.

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

I would have thought that they would have realised that water flows downhill, not up?

But your speaking about Pattaya they do things differently there, the water has got to follow their rules.

[Trip Hop]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

     Ah, yes.  Use that as a reason when all else fails.  That's what all the name brand hotels are doing?  All the publicly-traded Bangkok developers, all the name brand auto dealers, all the chain restaurants, all the water parks, golf courses, etc., all the retail stores with their new stores, all the entertainments, theaters, and the two, huge, branded malls?  Really lame as a reason. 

    My garbage is picked up regularly where I am and the new garbage collection service the city has hired looks professional--we were behind one their trucks the other day.   Flooding is being worked on, a problem not just in Pattaya but in other cities in Thailand, including Bangkok.  Yes, small parts of the beach still wash away in very heavy rains; it's fixed quickly and the important beach asset is back to looking great. 

    And, here's the thing.  All of your gripes are meaningless to a typical tourist.  Garbage collection, beach erosion, and flooding are things a resident cares about, not a tourist.  When I decided to visit Hanoi, I didn't research how good the garbage collection was before booking my trip.  Ditto beach erosion on Bondi Beach with the Australian trip.  A chance of flooding in Venice didn't prevent me from going.  Apparently, same for the 15 million tourists that visited in 2019.

You're obviously not very wise to how the world goes around are you?  Otherwise you would know that anything construction based is open to funny money?  Auto dealerships are franchises as are the majority of chain restaurants, so therefore open to the same whether it be backhanders for land purchase, construction of new buildings or even the fit out of existing ones?  Then once they are up they can be used even more on a daily basis, especially in a place where cash is the main way of paying for things, with same applying to a lot of franchised based stores in the malls you quote.  So apart from maybe the odd big name hotel and say maybe some entertainment venues that are part of a national non-franchised chain, everything that you have listed is a magnet to funny money.  Even a lot of developments such as condos built with legitimate money are purposely built knowing that they will be able to sell them on to foreigners wanting to do a bit of washing or hiding of their own?  After all, how exactly do you think large swathes of New York were built?

 

Now where you talk of your garbage being picked up regularly, no doubt you pay for that privately and receive a fine service?  However it's not that I refer to, it's the general municipal and trade waste that is left on every corner for days and weeks on end?  The last time that I took a stroll down South Pattaya Road, I was appalled by the same.  If you go to not even a high end beach resort in the Med etc. and you will see the garbage collectors out in the small hours, removing the same and even pressure washing down the streets and footways?  So if Pattaya wants to re-brand itself to what is considered by the majority of the developed world to be a high end beach resort, they should be doing the same?  Benidorm in the Costa Blanca, is a similar size and puts Pattaya to shame with its cleanliness, especially when you consider it's notorious for its party town reputation full of drunken Europeans?  Look at Ibiza, another party central with over 6 million visitors to the island in just 6 months, yet the place is spotless?  Just simply answer me why Pattaya cannot do the same?

 

Beach erosion at Bondi due to the sea is one thing but beach erosion due to the overflowing sewers on Beach Road is a totally different matter?  Also, if they could have been troubled to pay for tidal flow study & modelling prior to making their decision to just widen the beach, the resultant erosion problems from the sea itself could have been foreseen prior to construction and erosion protection measures taken to eliminate the same?  Hence saving money in the long term?  Also, maybe as you said piles of garbage at every corner might not be high on the list of concerns of your average tourist family but walking through the contents of the foul sewer after a heavy shower will be close to the very top.  You talk of all the work that is going on with regards to the drainage but anyone with a single iota of experience in infrastructure would able to take one look down the holes that they are digging and tell you that it's insufficient for the demand?  You quote your trip to Hanoi, which is a bustling city nowhere near a decent beach so it's like comparing apples to bananas?  You talk of Venice, which is basically comparing one sh*t hole to another?

 

The whole thing that you are failing to see is that whilst the typical attitude of the people running the place is to do as little as possible, they know best and "that will do", it will never really change?  Yes it may have received 15 million tourists last year but very few will return year on year excepting the die-hard regulars who love it for its chaos and alternative attractions?   Therefore to even think that it could ever change and become a world class beach resort is a joke?  As the saying goes, you cannot polish a turd and therefore there are far better places in the world for high end tourists to spend their money?  The majority of the eastern Caribbean for starters!

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

You're obviously not very wise to how the world goes around are you?

I am a little wiser, you took me on a World Tour to New York, South Pattaya Road, The Med, Benidorm, Ibiza, Bondi Beach, Hanoi, Venice and finishing up in the Caribbean. 

[newnative]

6 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

You're obviously not very wise to how the world goes around are you?  Otherwise you would know that anything construction based is open to funny money?  Auto dealerships are franchises as are the majority of chain restaurants, so therefore open to the same whether it be backhanders for land purchase, construction of new buildings or even the fit out of existing ones?  Then once they are up they can be used even more on a daily basis, especially in a place where cash is the main way of paying for things, with same applying to a lot of franchised based stores in the malls you quote.  So apart from maybe the odd big name hotel and say maybe some entertainment venues that are part of a national non-franchised chain, everything that you have listed is a magnet to funny money.  Even a lot of developments such as condos built with legitimate money are purposely built knowing that they will be able to sell them on to foreigners wanting to do a bit of washing or hiding of their own?  After all, how exactly do you think large swathes of New York were built?

 

Now where you talk of your garbage being picked up regularly, no doubt you pay for that privately and receive a fine service?  However it's not that I refer to, it's the general municipal and trade waste that is left on every corner for days and weeks on end?  The last time that I took a stroll down South Pattaya Road, I was appalled by the same.  If you go to not even a high end beach resort in the Med etc. and you will see the garbage collectors out in the small hours, removing the same and even pressure washing down the streets and footways?  So if Pattaya wants to re-brand itself to what is considered by the majority of the developed world to be a high end beach resort, they should be doing the same?  Benidorm in the Costa Blanca, is a similar size and puts Pattaya to shame with its cleanliness, especially when you consider it's notorious for its party town reputation full of drunken Europeans?  Look at Ibiza, another party central with over 6 million visitors to the island in just 6 months, yet the place is spotless?  Just simply answer me why Pattaya cannot do the same?

 

Beach erosion at Bondi due to the sea is one thing but beach erosion due to the overflowing sewers on Beach Road is a totally different matter?  Also, if they could have been troubled to pay for tidal flow study & modelling prior to making their decision to just widen the beach, the resultant erosion problems from the sea itself could have been foreseen prior to construction and erosion protection measures taken to eliminate the same?  Hence saving money in the long term?  Also, maybe as you said piles of garbage at every corner might not be high on the list of concerns of your average tourist family but walking through the contents of the foul sewer after a heavy shower will be close to the very top.  You talk of all the work that is going on with regards to the drainage but anyone with a single iota of experience in infrastructure would able to take one look down the holes that they are digging and tell you that it's insufficient for the demand?  You quote your trip to Hanoi, which is a bustling city nowhere near a decent beach so it's like comparing apples to bananas?  You talk of Venice, which is basically comparing one sh*t hole to another?

 

The whole thing that you are failing to see is that whilst the typical attitude of the people running the place is to do as little as possible, they know best and "that will do", it will never really change?  Yes it may have received 15 million tourists last year but very few will return year on year excepting the die-hard regulars who love it for its chaos and alternative attractions?   Therefore to even think that it could ever change and become a world class beach resort is a joke?  As the saying goes, you cannot polish a turd and therefore there are far better places in the world for high end tourists to spend their money?  The majority of the eastern Caribbean for starters!

 

 

 

      So, New York is built with laundered money and Pattaya is built with laundered money.  Okey dokey.  Whether they are or aren't, not a big deal for me--or, likely, New Yorkers.   What's important to me is all the growing choices I have living in a growing Pattaya.   If I can ever afford a Mercedes, I can buy one right in Pattaya.  When I get hungry there are lots of restaurant choices, even now. 

      I live on Pattaya Beach Road so I guess I have the city garbage collection.  The new service seems to be better than the old service.  My area of the city is being kept clean but I grant you there are areas that can be found where improvement is needed.  I live part-time in Bangkok and I can point out areas there, too.  I've visited lots of cities in Thailand and I find Pattaya to be on a par with them in this regard.  I noticed lots of trash on the streets in Rome and Paris, too.  C'est la vie.  Nowhere is perfect.

     You can gripe all you want about beach erosion not being done right or flood control not being done right but I am a glass half full kind of guy.  I'm sitting on my balcony with my morning coffee and Pattaya Beach is looking pretty terrific.  The tractor cleaning truck is out doing the morning cleaning.  I'm heartened when I drive down North Pattaya Road and see all the wires buried.  Lots of road work continues everywhere--perhaps not being done how you would do it but, still, being done.  I see progress, even if it is slow.

      I think you missed my point when I mentioned Bondi Beach, Venice, and Hanoi.  The point I was trying to make is I visited those place not caring what the local issues were.  Flooding when it rains, garbage collection, the state of the roads, beach erosion, etc. are all local issues that concern the local residents--not tourists. 

    The road from Hanoi to where we boarded the boat to tour Ha Long Bay was bumpy and awful--but I don't live there and travel it daily.  Didn't detract from my wonderful time.  I used Venice as the ultimate example of occasional flooding not preventing tourists from visiting--in droves.  Same with Pattaya's occasional flooding in a very heavy rain.  It, and the other local issues, won't prevent tourists from visiting.  The new types of businesses we've seen in the last 3 or 4 years are the best examples of the new types of tourists Pattaya  is attracting.  

[kinyara]

Pattaya's water supply system dodged a major bullet due to the absence of 2020 expected tourist numbers. If they fail to address the issue now just because they got away with it this year there is nothing sustainable about future tourist and residential population growth without security of that most basic of resources. Given they mention water supply projects for Koh Larn it must mean it's within their power for Pattaya and it's not being addressed. 

 

Spend money on the basics and ensure the job is is done properly once, ie not the continual gravy train of repeat poor quality road and drainage works in the same areas year after year. The amount of public money that has been ploughed into Pattaya  over the years for very little obvious incremental benefit, ( for the general public that is), is obscene. Lucky for those in charge they seem to be totally unaccountable for the continual wastage and failures, so it in indeed sustainable growth for some. 

 

Knocking up a 5 story car park in the middle of the only area of character in town blatantly unsuited to Chinese volume tourism just about sums it up, no wonder the locals don't want it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by kinyara
Missed word