Income Protection Insurance

[samran]

Hey all,

I've started into the world of being a freelance consultant. ie...I'm learning how to b*llsh!t with the best of them and learning to make powerpoint my best friend.

One of the consequences of this life, is that I'm no longer in the bosum of a nice corp. employer, and my income is pretty much dependent on my own efforts.

While charging by the hour is nice, were something to happen (apart from Death, permanent incapcitation and health - which I've already insured for), I'd like to insure my income so that my family isn't left stranded while I'm down and out for months at a time.

Is anyone familar with (or more importantly) have experience with a good insurer in this respect? In the past, I've found better value with other forms of insurance off shore (lower premiums, higher coverage), but if someone can point me in the right direction with some usueful names either in Thailand or elsewhere (australia maybe) then it would be most appricated. The stumbling block I've found so far is that offshore insurers don't want to insure my income while I'm living and working in Thailand. They are happy to do health and death, but not income insurance. While not being too specific, my salary would be considered as nice in the context of the west and in the highest tax bracket in Australia for instance, so I need someone who will cover me for that.

Cheers in advance,

Samran

[eljeque]

Please redirect me if I am wrong, but are you looking for "disability insurance" or "unemployment insurance". If you are looking for unemployment insurance, then I truely wish you the best of luck, because after living my entire life out of my home country, I am as of yet to hear about overseas unemployment insurance that will cover a self-employed individual.

Tell me if I am wrong, but it almost sounds like you are searching for employment insurance in order to be paid when you cannot or do not find work.

I can thing of a lot of people here in Thailand who would like to find that kind of insurance for when they are too lazy to go back to work or there simply is not any work available in their field.

[samran]

sorry to burst your bubble eljeque, but I'm not a drifter.

If I wanted unemployment benefits, I'd go back to the Australia and go on the dole, get family allowance payments and probably some type of housing benefit and buy a red automatic 1988 holden commadore.

What I'm looking for is to insure my current INCOME in the case that for some reason due to illness (for example) I'm unable to work in my current capacity.

I'm only in my 30's, but already way too many friends get cancer and other nasties which have made them unable to work for periods of up to a year.

The insurance I'm looking for will take the average of my current income for the past 12 months, and pay that, subject of course to the fact that I am temporarily unable to work due to some type of medical condition.

Many insurers in Australia offer this, but the problem is, they won't insure me while outside of Australia. In Thailand, insurance premiums as a rule, are high and don't offer very much, at least in my experience.

[bendix]

I think it's a tough one samran. I've not heard of that type of insurance here, and am pretty sure it doesnt exist. Furthermore, for the type of western income you'd need protection for, i would imagine the premiums would be skyhigh. Also, given that your work is freelance and not guaranteed, that adds to the risk and - ergo - the premium.

Still, if you or anyone else finds something, I'd certainly be interested in it too.

[eljeque]

""sorry to burst your bubble eljeque, but I'm not a drifter.""

Nowhere did I insinuate that you were a drifter. SEE BELOW

Tell me if I am wrong, but it almost sounds like you are searching for employment insurance in order to be paid when you cannot or do not find work.

I can think of a lot of people here in Thailand who would like to find that kind of insurance for when they are too lazy to go back to work or there simply is not any work available in their field.

Think about why this insurance may be so difficult to find. It may be because it is not available overseas because of the difficulty of insurance companies reviewing claims.

I wish you luck in your search.

[PhilHarries]

I can think of a lot of people here in Thailand who would like to find that kind of insurance for when they are too lazy to go back to work or there simply is not any work available in their field.

In samran's second post he explains a little clearer what he is after. There is insurance cover in the UK for loss of earnings to cover such things as loans and morgages but I've not heard of it being extended overseas but maybe now it will cover Europe. I believe this cover can extend to unemployement for non medical reasons but I think there are pretty tight conditions.

The problem is verification of any claim as doctor's certificates in Thailand can be produced at the drop of a hat, or a couple of thousand Baht. But hel_l insurance companies will cover just about anything these days as long as the premium is right i.e. the odds are stacked in their favour.

But the hard part is going to be to convince them there is sufficient demand now and in the future for your particular service.

[samran]

""sorry to burst your bubble eljeque, but I'm not a drifter.""

Nowhere did I insinuate that you were a drifter. SEE BELOW

Tell me if I am wrong, but it almost sounds like you are searching for employment insurance in order to be paid when you cannot or do not find work.

Ok.. You are wrong.

I've said twice already, that I'm looking to insure my income SHOULD I ever get sick (and due to being sick) be unable to work....

I'm not looking for insurance in the event I'm able to work beause I can't find a job. That, my friend, is called the dole where I come from, and due to the system that exists in australia, and which I am eligible for, if I am ever (god forbid) in that situation, my last 15,000 baht will be for a one way air ticket to the closest Centrelink office in Melbourne to register for my $140 bucks a week. But if you are an American, you probably know it better as 'welfare'.

I already have life insurance, and I already have permanent disability insurance. I also have health insurance for me and my family. Yes, I am a risk adverse kinda bloke.

Think about why this insurance may be so difficult to find. It may be because it is not available overseas because of the difficulty of insurance companies reviewing claims.

I wish you luck in your search.

Um. I've actually done a masters subject as to why this type of insurance would be hard to find. A lot to do with the insurance fund paying out more that received in payments. I can spin some equations, throwing in some probabilities taking into account risk aversion or being a risk lover, drawing fancy curvers and shading the area of probable return vs expected return, but I won't bore you.

[Prakanong]

Is it critical illness cover? - explained a lot on here

http://www.contractoruk.com/money/critical...ance_cover.html

It is getting harder and harder to claim on this insurance and the types of illness being covered slashed

Generally two types of cover contractors got for themselves

PHI - Permanent Health Insurance

Critical Illness

Each was slightly different I beleive - CI paid a lump sum upon diagnosis and PHI paid a monthly income while the person was unable to work through ill health

[samran]

Is it critical illness cover? - explained a lot on here

http://www.contractoruk.com/money/critical...ance_cover.html

It is getting harder and harder to claim on this insurance and the types of illness being covered slashed

Generally two types of cover contractors got for themselves

PHI - Permanent Health Insurance

Critical Illness

Each was slightly different I beleive - CI paid a lump sum upon diagnosis and PHI paid a monthly income while the person was unable to work through ill health

ta for that.

kidna down the path of what I'm looking for. I've already got the option of a peranent diability pay out through my superannuation fund in Australia. The income protection which is what I'm aiming for, is a temporary disability.

As I alluded to before, I've just had two friends in their 30's diagnosed with cancer. One with a tumor behind the eye! She'll lose her eyesight at some point, and will need time out from work while she recovers. Another two people have chronic fatigue syndrome, and they've been out of action for two years. All proffessionals and from my relatively close circle of friends.

[bendix]

Completely off topic, but what did they call chronic fatigue syndrome before chronic fatigue syndrome was invented? Or did it actually exist, or develop during the 1980s, the first time I recall it being discussed as 'yuppie flu'.

[samran]

Completely off topic, but what did they call chronic fatigue syndrome before chronic fatigue syndrome was invented? Or did it actually exist, or develop during the 1980s, the first time I recall it being discussed as 'yuppie flu'.

dunno bendix, but having seen it in action, it doesn't seem pleasant. One mate in particular who I'm quite close to who I have no reason to doubt it to be real. Before she got it, she was a real go getter, doing very well down in Melbourne working for AXA of all places. Now her life is a series of recurring viral infections that doctors can't explain, hitting her for 6 each time. This has been going of for two years. She was insured....

Another girl who I used to work with - again, no reason to question, went to London to do the London thing, basically got it over there. Back now in Brisbane, living with her parents and in bad shape from all reports....not the kind of thing you would have been aiming for in life at 30. She wasn't insured.

Both of them were latte sippers, but.....

Another close mate of mine, his friend had it (country boy from Wangaratta in central Victoria - footy player etc etc). My mate got pretty emotional explaining when his mate could mow the lawn for first time without feeling exhausted.

[eljeque]

""Um. I've actually done a masters subject as to why this type of insurance would be hard to find. A lot to do with the insurance fund paying out more that received in payments. I can spin some equations, throwing in some probabilities taking into account risk aversion or being a risk lover, drawing fancy curvers and shading the area of probable return vs expected return, but I won't bore you.""

You would not bore me as I graduated from UCLA at age 20 with a degree in economics, taught math overseas for years, and have articles published on currencies, the Asian melt-down, etc.

I wish you the best of luck in your search.

[samran]

touche, eljeque, touche......

[Misty]

Hi Samran,

Have you tried this company? http://www.william-russell.com/ Their website says they provide global income protection insurance for expats.

Interested to hear if you find anything useful.

In the US, insurance for this purpose is often called "disability insurance" while it seems elsewhere such as the UK and perhaps Australia it is called income protection.

Cheers, Misty