Basic Price Of A Rai Of Farm Land

[Boxer]

One Rai of rice land near Sisaket dirt road access all along one side out in fields. Any price guide?

One Rai of land in village same location with made up road frontage no electric or water on land as yet but available. Price guide?

In family sale.

[Tilapia]

One Rai of rice land near Sisaket dirt road access all along one side out in fields. Any price guide?

One Rai of land in village same location with made up road frontage no electric or water on land as yet but available. Price guide?

In family sale.

Difficult to say, what kind of land-papers is it ? What you are willing to pay for it ?

Tilapia.

[Boxer]

One Rai of rice land near Sisaket dirt road access all along one side out in fields. Any price guide?

One Rai of land in village same location with made up road frontage no electric or water on land as yet but available. Price guide?

In family sale.

Difficult to say, what kind of land-papers is it ? What you are willing to pay for it ?

Tilapia.

Sor Por Kor in Thai family transfer sale. Just want to feel there is no rip off going on. Some say 15000 per rai others say 50000 per rai?

[Tilapia]

One Rai of rice land near Sisaket dirt road access all along one side out in fields. Any price guide?

One Rai of land in village same location with made up road frontage no electric or water on land as yet but available. Price guide?

In family sale.

Difficult to say, what kind of land-papers is it ? What you are willing to pay for it ?

Tilapia.

Sor Por Kor in Thai family transfer sale. Just want to feel there is no rip off going on. Some say 15000 per rai others say 50000 per rai?

Speaking for myself, I would only put money into land if it have Nor Sor Sam or the real land-paper with the red seal (tjenod) or close to that word. Sor Por Kor is not safe in my mind, but if you have to do it, then 15.000 sounds ok, 50.000 is to much.

Tilapia

[paulsmithson]

Sor Por kor means only the user of the land---no rights. Only bvuy with chanote or Nor sor Gor!

with chanote land prices vary from area to area-many factors decide this. my advice is do not buy

[Loom]

It's not technically gonna be Boxer's land even if there's a chanote title. As long as it's not part of a national forest and if it's been worked the same way over a period of years, the government's probably never going to put a claim on the land. If anything, it's likely the title status will be upgraded because it's recognized that legal titles generally lead to positive economic consequences. If you're worried about the implications of this particular type of registration, take a trip to the local land office. They will know what you can and cannot do and may also offer advice about valuations in that area.

I look at it from the perspective of return. Rice land is rented for Bt1000/rai in central Thailand or more if you're taking a cut of the rice production. At Bt20000/rai (drop in the bucket) a Bt1000 annual rental yields 5%. I doubt bank deposits generate that much, ag land prices in Thailand at that level are unlikely to go down, there's a secular bull market for ag commodities underway, and the baht has been appreciating against the dollar. Like anything else, try to shop around and see what other's have recently paid for land in the same area. If u do buy, helps to have someone trustworthy near the land to watch things.

[Maizefarmer]

"401" land - otherwise known as Sor Por Kor - is land you want to exercise caution with.

The rights holder cannot sell it or legally lease it to a 3rd party.

At best your use of that land and any monies you put into it will be on trust - and we know all about that in Thailand.

Stay clear of 401 titled land - however attractive it looks - you have no legal title over it, or use of it (I don't care what anyone tells you).

Of course if this is your partner's land (or the familys' land, or your partner decides to enter into and agreement - that's a judgement you can make - but it hs no legal validility.

Right holders can build on 401 land.

MF

[Totster]

Maizefarmer ...

What is the title given to farm land that is heriditary.. ?

totster

[Maizefarmer]

Totser

Not quite sure how to answer your question:

Are you referring to land that is 401, and which is left in a final will and testament to a next of kin? - which is possible i.e. Sor Por Kor can be passed on to a next of kin, at which time the inheriter can also submitt an application for the terms & conditions of ownership to be changed (see last paragraph).

Or, are you referring to land which was "owned/used/leased" by a deceased person under some other other type of title, and which is then left to a next of kin?

In any event, back to 401: upon inheritance, subject to location of the land and the length of time it was occupied by the deceased, appliction can be made to change the title to Nor Sor Gor - a stepping stone eventually to Chanote. Each case is considered on it's merits - criteria usually considered are: length of time deceased held the 401, was it also occupied (i.e. family house on it?), how was/is it used. There is no fixed use of this rule. It remains a "grey area" and controversial at that - caused the Lekpai goverment alot of headaches a few years back (allegations of favouritism and nepotisim in the way it was used and interperated).

Another point on this heritance issue associated with Sor Por Gor - especially if you have been offered use of it.

Despite the fact that it is not permitted to allow 3rd party use of Sor Por Gor land, a lot of it is debt laden. This usualy comes to light on the death of the title holder, at which point the "inheritor" finds themself having to discreetly negotiate with the "creditor" (inheritors stand a chance of having the Sor Por Kor title denied them if the authorities discover the deceased used it ilegally in any way). I only mention this because it is often the status of Sor Por Kor titled land which is "offered" for use to 3rd parties i.e. the inheritor needs cash to clear a debt their deceased relative had.

So be carefull - not only won't you in any event be getting any legal right to use the land, any money you pay over or anything you do on the land may well land up been disputed over at some stage down the line between an unofficial creditor and an inheritor.

MF

[Maizefarmer]

"Sor Por Kor" and "Sor Por Gor" and "401" and "40-1" and "See Soon juut Ning" (i.e. Four Zero dash One) - all recognised by Thai's the same thing - just spelling, whatever suits you.

MF

[Totster]

Thanks for your reply Maizefarmer,

Some of the land the we have was given to the wife by her mother. She says this land can only be passed down to [the owners?] children, and cannot be sold. This land has always been in the family (given to wifes mother by her mother and so on), and used for rice

Wife says it is called "tra tee roop" (going by sound here), but from asking her about it, it seems like it is Sor Por Gor..

Makes no difference really, just interested..

totster

[Maizefarmer]

Little doubt we are talking about the the same thing.

MF

[Boxer]

Thanks guys for the introduction to land title in Isaan. I should have said it is the partners family land. One Brother wants cash and is willing to sell his bit of the family land to my partner. There seems to be little in paperwork in this area near Sisaket and nothing is public to get a feel for prices.

Village Head gets involved and the Agricultural Bank seem to loan cash for motorbikes etc. on very little title. I am avoiding commitment at the moment saying I want to see papers, which i feel they dont have.

[Maizefarmer]

What - no title, no papers to demonstarte ownership or type of ownership?????????

Yes, you're right - it would have been helpful to make this minor point clear right form the start!

Know the old Roman saying - Caveat Emptor

MF

[chownah]

If your family does not have any official land office papers for the land then the first thing to do in my opinion is to go to the land office and see if there IS any paperwork for the land.....perhaps someone else is holding some paper on the land and your family is not aware of it. If the land office confirms that there is no paperwork for the land then ask them why.

My home is built on land without paperwork as are many of my neighbor's homes. I was leery of building here except that it was exactly what I was looking for and already owned by my wife's family. The land office showed that no papers had ever been issued for the land and by talking with local people I found out why.....and it seemed like a legitimate reason and since a whole neighborhood of people have built on this type of land I decided to go ahead. I don't anticipate any problems but it is a unusual. Agricultural land would be riskier since you don't have a lot of neighbors with development to protect to align with you in the event of a questioning of ownership....I guess.

chownah

[kangeroo]

Hello i think let your gf or wife buy the land , she then gives you a 30 year lease and away you go put what everyou want on it with in reason .

Ragards kangeroo

[Boxer]

If your family does not have any official land office papers for the land then the first thing to do in my opinion is to go to the land office and see if there IS any paperwork for the land.....perhaps someone else is holding some paper on the land and your family is not aware of it. If the land office confirms that there is no paperwork for the land then ask them why.

My home is built on land without paperwork as are many of my neighbor's homes. I was leery of building here except that it was exactly what I was looking for and already owned by my wife's family. The land office showed that no papers had ever been issued for the land and by talking with local people I found out why.....and it seemed like a legitimate reason and since a whole neighborhood of people have built on this type of land I decided to go ahead. I don't anticipate any problems but it is a unusual. Agricultural land would be riskier since you don't have a lot of neighbors with development to protect to align with you in the event of a questioning of ownership....I guess.

chownah

I think you are right in this area I am talking about most of the land does not have paper title, just handed down from Parents to family and the Village Headman approves most of it. Sisaket City recently tried to document the area but it came to a stand still as no one would pay for it.

Another plot with papers was recently split into two again to family members. The local City office came for 4500 baht and surveyed it, marking the area with stakes etc. then properly surveyed it and 8 Rai was only 6 in the end as a dirt road had been laid along one side eating into the area. Five adjacent land owners had to sign agreement of the boundary and it took us ages to get them together to do this. Two of the family now have some papers. All I wanted to do was see that the other half was not ripped off by inflated figures by the rest of the family but fixing a figure or getting a guide is very difficult.

[Loom]

Local land dept. officials or staffers still probably a good source of information about area pricing. However, make sure the seller of the plot in question doesn't recommend a specific individual. Land dept. staffers might also know someone show can show other plots for sale (former chiefs or chiefs in other villages), esp. if the pricing is out of whack on the piece you're looking at.

[epicstuff]

My girlfriends family said I could get good irrigated flat farming land on Chanote for 20,000/rai near Sa keo, that area I would have thought is more valueble Si Saket.

[correct]

My girlfriends family said I could get good irrigated flat farming land on Chanote for 20,000/rai near Sa keo, that area I would have thought is more valueble Si Saket.

thats sounds like a brilliant deal to me

[epicstuff]

My girlfriends family said I could get good irrigated flat farming land on Chanote for 20,000/rai near Sa keo, that area I would have thought is more valueble Si Saket.

thats sounds like a brilliant deal to me

i'm under the impression thats the going rate. The uncle is (I dont know what the name is ) head of the local farming commitee that organize the marketing stratagy for the area, he ought to know .

I'm Strapped for cash at the moment but am definately concidering a bit for the future. listening to the returns/ rai for stuff like rose apples and 'long gan' makes me wonder why i slave in a frighing bar. Its just that its a longer term inverstment.

what prices have others been told in similar areas?

[highchol]

from another topic Kasikorn bank real estate for sale <a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=119172&pid=1320752&st=0" target="_blank">

</a>

http://www.kasikornbank.com/PropertyForSal...1,2098,,00.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...320752&st=0

Edited May 25, 2007 by highchol

[maipasathai]

Just bouht 9 rai outside Udon Thani. Asked TGF what we have for paper and she say T.B.5. Anyone who can help me to sort out what kind of landhold this is?

[Maizefarmer]

T.B.5 - the only thing I can think of: Por Bor Tor 5 title - for lack of a better description its a "squatter rights".

While legal yes, it's value is limited and is a last resort kind of titleship, but there is a problem: it's not mean't to be bought or sold (unless one is dealing with a bent official)

Concerned? - get the document, take a digital pic or make a photo copy: post here or send to me - then I can tell you for sure what it says. I just can;t think of anything else that comes to close to what you have described, accept a Por Bor Tor 5 doc.

MF

Edited May 26, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[brahmburgers]

It was heartening to hear Chonah mention he built on land with no papers. I did the same, 8 years ago, and have not had any problems. I've also been a realtor of sorts here in northernmost Thailand. Ironically, the nicest land often seems to be the land with no chonod (no title).

I've decided that non-chanod land can vary in it's relative security. After all, the #1 consideration for any person buying land is whether it's secure. In other words, will someone come along later and lay claim to it? If a farang is married to a Thai, it's almost certain he'll put the land in her name - and that in itself is risky (more so statistically than buying non-titled land). If and when a break-up occurs, guess who's going to gain the land?

All in all, non-chanod land is usually safe to purchase. I recommend talking with property owners in the immediate area - particularly those who have bordering properties. Certainly talk with the 'poo yai ban' (village chief) to get his opinion on the matter - before putting money down. Whatever you buy, be sure to get a photocopy of the seller's ID card with his/her signature on it. ...and a photocopy of their residence papers and, if possible ID card and residence papers of their immediate family. Also, try and talk to the seller's immediate family members - to make sure they don't have any problems with the land changing hands.

[Gary A]

It was heartening to hear Chonah mention he built on land with no papers. I did the same, 8 years ago, and have not had any problems. I've also been a realtor of sorts here in northernmost Thailand. Ironically, the nicest land often seems to be the land with no chonod (no title).

I've decided that non-chanod land can vary in it's relative security. After all, the #1 consideration for any person buying land is whether it's secure. In other words, will someone come along later and lay claim to it? If a farang is married to a Thai, it's almost certain he'll put the land in her name - and that in itself is risky (more so statistically than buying non-titled land). If and when a break-up occurs, guess who's going to gain the land?

All in all, non-chanod land is usually safe to purchase. I recommend talking with property owners in the immediate area - particularly those who have bordering properties. Certainly talk with the 'poo yai ban' (village chief) to get his opinion on the matter - before putting money down. Whatever you buy, be sure to get a photocopy of the seller's ID card with his/her signature on it. ...and a photocopy of their residence papers and, if possible ID card and residence papers of their immediate family. Also, try and talk to the seller's immediate family members - to make sure they don't have any problems with the land changing hands.

I found the most beautiful piece of land You could possibly imagine. Twelve rai surrounded by rock face cliffs and even a cave for a total price of 600,000 baht. If you would fence in just the opening, you could keep livestock in there. The old lady who wanted to sell it had it planted with sugar cane. I rushed home to tell my wife and my wife told me that the land belongs to the government and the lady can't sell it nor could we own it. Regardless of how long the old lady had the land she is still just a squatter. A Thai friend of mine who showed it to me told me it was safe to buy and that his land has no papers either. NO THANKS!

[Canadianvisitor]

My opinion is, "Who knows what the future holds?"

Better to have legal title than to have a little voice in the back of your

head saying "They could come take my home whenever they want".

Bribery seems to work very well though.

[Gary A]

That land has most likely been in the family for many years. There are ways of getting legal documents for the land. That takes a long time also and is not really too important. To prevent problems in the future you should have the land surveyed. During the survey, round numbered cement markers are put in the ground to mark boundaries. At the same time you should divide the plot marking what belongs to each family member. You, as a farang are never going to own or have any rights to that land anyways. Marking individual plots eliminates family squabbles and your wife will have clear rights to her section. Save your money and don't worry about leases or anything you think will protect you. If the marriage goes pear shaped, you won't want to live there anyways. Remember the golden rule, NEVER spend more than you can afford to walk away from.

[Garry]

Go to the local Amphur and ask for the sell back(to the Amphur) prices for the land. They should have the area zoned with the applicable farm land and house land prices per rai. That should give you a then educated idea of what you should pay.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Garry