New Motorbike Honda Click Type V's Conventional?

[LivinLOS]

Step through has always been to denote a crashbox gearbox (semi auto, clutchless gears, whetever) for me growing up in UK and around.. Honda C90 step through.. That wasnt just a small circle of mates but I know thats my old mans term and many others too..

Perhaps this is a locality / nationality difference ??

[LoveDaBlues]

Step through has always been to denote a crashbox gearbox (semi auto, clutchless gears, whetever) for me growing up in UK and around.. Honda C90 step through.. That wasnt just a small circle of mates but I know thats my old mans term and many others too..

Perhaps this is a locality / nationality difference ??

Since I live in Thailand and this is a Thai based forum I'll stick with the terminology I've found prevalent in Thailand.

step-thru = frame style; nothing to do with gears

to each his own though; not really a big deal

[martynsnowman]

Step through has always been to denote a crashbox gearbox (semi auto, clutchless gears, whetever) for me growing up in UK and around.. Honda C90 step through.. That wasnt just a small circle of mates but I know thats my old mans term and many others too..

Perhaps this is a locality / nationality difference ??

hi livinLOS. the honda,s c50 c70 c90 were called BOG SEATS in England for as long as i can remember and step through were nothing to do with the gears they were all 3 speed semis .....

sorry for sticking my nose in .....martyn

[jdinasia]

Thought step through referred to the gears. This is very interesting; maybe someone has the time to confirm it via some research on the Internet

don't know if links are allowed here, if not the mods can remove.

www.thescooterguys.com

also talks about mopeds which I think are cool. when I was a kid some of my friends had them. if you ran out of gas or had an engine failure for some reason you could just pedal your bike home, cool!

it's pretty obvious step-thru has NOTHING TO DO with the gears.

I had 2 Puch mopeds at the same time ..... they were fun and in the US they were legal at all ages! Would do about 40mph .... and get me from where I lived <house> to the university that I actually lived at .... <I was a campus brat! not a military brat!>

[highchol]

Step through has always been to denote a crashbox gearbox (semi auto, clutchless gears, whetever) for me growing up in UK and around.. Honda C90 step through.. That wasnt just a small circle of mates but I know thats my old mans term and many others too..

Perhaps this is a locality / nationality difference ??

hi livinLOS. the honda,s c50 c70 c90 were called BOG SEATS in England for as long as i can remember and step through were nothing to do with the gears they were all 3 speed semis .....

sorry for sticking my nose in .....martyn

those bikes were called honda plackies ( plastic ) in my neck of the woods.

Also step through was the term for manual but clutchless gear change as I understood it.

You say tomarto I say tomayto....

[MaiChai]

Trust wikipedia to have something on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step-through_frame

Funny how a misconception can become common place: I always thought step through meant you can step through the gears without using a clutch. There you go. Obviously it goes back to the days where ladies had long dresses and using a mans bicycle was a problem for adventurous women

Something more modern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_(motorcycle)

What were we talking about? Oh yes auto v conventional.

My opinion is that the autos are not very durable.

They are both easy to drive.

4 gear clutchless Waves/Dreams have been round for years, and have proven themselves long lasting, durable, cheap to run and economical.

Auto: loads of rubber and plastic, new, and have not proven themselves over the long term. 4 gear clutchless: lots of metal (especially in the drive train which has the wear and tear); much tougher and harder wearing than rubber and plastic.

Auto: eat fuel. Coventional: proven to be very economical transport.

Auto: much easier to drive, and more manoverable in Bangkok traffic (no time wasted changing gears).

Auto: have small wheels; many people change these to have larger wheels which adds to the cost of the bike. Small wheels are more manuverable.

Auto: more value engineered (cheaply made).

4 gear clutchless: has two rear shock absorbers. Click/Fino/Mio only have one small shock. Thus 4 gear clutchless can carry more weight. Airblade/Nuovo much more expensive than Wave so I discount them here.

4 gear clutchless is a bigger bike than the Click/Fino/Mio.

4 gear clutchless is boring (mind you Honda is good at making trendy stickers to put on the side).

Edited May 25, 2007 by MaiChai

[jdinasia]

So ... if it also applies to the gearbox ...... <still unclear on that!> my Tiger Joker 125cc is a double stepthrough!

[calibanjr.]

Thought step through referred to the gears. This is very interesting; maybe someone has the time to confirm it via some research on the Internet

don't know if links are allowed here, if not the mods can remove.

www.thescooterguys.com

also talks about mopeds which I think are cool. when I was a kid some of my friends had them. if you ran out of gas or had an engine failure for some reason you could just pedal your bike home, cool!

it's pretty obvious step-thru has NOTHING TO DO with the gears.

I had 2 Puch mopeds at the same time ..... they were fun and in the US they were legal at all ages! Would do about 40mph .... and get me from where I lived <house> to the university that I actually lived at .... <I was a campus brat! not a military brat!>

Man, that was my first "legal" motor vehicle! Had a Puch when I was 12 (1978) they were so novel that the authorities didn't really have any legal policy toward them for a two years or so. Sort of a limbo scenario, really. They finally got around to requiring a license to drive it, so I was back on my 10-speed until driver's ed. at 16.

[jdinasia]

Thought step through referred to the gears. This is very interesting; maybe someone has the time to confirm it via some research on the Internet

don't know if links are allowed here, if not the mods can remove.

www.thescooterguys.com

also talks about mopeds which I think are cool. when I was a kid some of my friends had them. if you ran out of gas or had an engine failure for some reason you could just pedal your bike home, cool!

it's pretty obvious step-thru has NOTHING TO DO with the gears.

I had 2 Puch mopeds at the same time ..... they were fun and in the US they were legal at all ages! Would do about 40mph .... and get me from where I lived <house> to the university that I actually lived at .... <I was a campus brat! not a military brat!>

Man, that was my first "legal" motor vehicle! Had a Puch when I was 12 (1978) they were so novel that the authorities didn't really have any legal policy toward them for a two years or so. Sort of a limbo scenario, really. They finally got around to requiring a license to drive it, so I was back on my 10-speed until driver's ed. at 16.

I think they stayed legal in Texas ... where I was ... had them about the same time as you. They only had like a 30cc motor

I had my bike license at 16 and a hardship license in Maine at 15 ... I was a demon on wheels

[dave_boo]

Thought step through referred to the gears. This is very interesting; maybe someone has the time to confirm it via some research on the Internet

don't know if links are allowed here, if not the mods can remove.

www.thescooterguys.com

also talks about mopeds which I think are cool. when I was a kid some of my friends had them. if you ran out of gas or had an engine failure for some reason you could just pedal your bike home, cool!

it's pretty obvious step-thru has NOTHING TO DO with the gears.

I had 2 Puch mopeds at the same time ..... they were fun and in the US they were legal at all ages! Would do about 40mph .... and get me from where I lived <house> to the university that I actually lived at .... <I was a campus brat! not a military brat!>

Man, that was my first "legal" motor vehicle! Had a Puch when I was 12 (1978) they were so novel that the authorities didn't really have any legal policy toward them for a two years or so. Sort of a limbo scenario, really. They finally got around to requiring a license to drive it, so I was back on my 10-speed until driver's ed. at 16.

I was born 13 years after you, and by the time I was old enough to get one, Ohio had their stuff sorted out. Basically, you had to be 14, the moped couldn't exceed 50cc displacement, produce no more than 1(!) brake horsepower, and travel faster than 20 MPH. Kinda restrictive, but a hel_l of a lot better than bumming rides or riding my bike. I bought a Motobecane that was 1 year old than I and weighed something like 110 Kilos. Remember, it only had 1 bhp to move the bike and me--and I was 160 lbs.

not mine

[JonnyF]

I test rode most of them before I bought and decided on a Yamaha Nouvo. It's seat is big enough for 2 comfortably, it's fast enough, it's stable at 90-100 kmh and it looks good (in my opinion). Not too worried about kilometres per litre as petrol is so cheap, and there are enough of them around to make getting spares cheap. Lots of room under the seat as well. Done 6000 kms so far (in 8 months) and no problems whatsoever. Second choice was the Honda Air Blade because I have always liked the Honda build quality but it felt slower so I got the Nouvo.

[LivinLOS]

Since I live in Thailand and this is a Thai based forum I'll stick with the terminology I've found prevalent in Thailand.

step-thru = frame style; nothing to do with gears

to each his own though; not really a big deal

hi livinLOS. the honda,s c50 c70 c90 were called BOG SEATS in England for as long as i can remember and step through were nothing to do with the gears they were all 3 speed semis .....

sorry for sticking my nose in .....martyn

Well if it is the frame type and not the gearing.. How would this be a step through and a nuovo not ??? This isnt a flat fully open like a lambretta etc.

Ebay auction for a C90 stepthrough..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-C90-STEPTHROUG...bayphotohosting

[lost_in_space]

The Mrs wants a motorbike ( no 2nd hand ones or platinums I havent a hope in hel_l of pulling off that trick )

The choice is daunting. The use would be for the odd short trips around town, save getting the car out. Main riders.. mrs and her sister and me the occaisional passenger.

Mrs has mentioned the honda click, i think they have an odd riding position and would naturally incline towards the more tradional style of say the honda wave etc.

Any experience pros/ cons to pass on would be appreciated.

Highchol,

I'd suggest you buy something with 2 headlights. If you live up country and have to drive on unlighted roads, a light that burns out on the way home can be a major headache.

[jdinasia]

Since I live in Thailand and this is a Thai based forum I'll stick with the terminology I've found prevalent in Thailand.

step-thru = frame style; nothing to do with gears

to each his own though; not really a big deal

hi livinLOS. the honda,s c50 c70 c90 were called BOG SEATS in England for as long as i can remember and step through were nothing to do with the gears they were all 3 speed semis .....

sorry for sticking my nose in .....martyn

Well if it is the frame type and not the gearing.. How would this be a step through and a nuovo not ??? This isnt a flat fully open like a lambretta etc.

Ebay auction for a C90 stepthrough..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-C90-STEPTHROUG...bayphotohosting

Look closely at those handlebars and the foot break .... I think I see a clutch

[LivinLOS]

Since I live in Thailand and this is a Thai based forum I'll stick with the terminology I've found prevalent in Thailand.

step-thru = frame style; nothing to do with gears

to each his own though; not really a big deal

hi livinLOS. the honda,s c50 c70 c90 were called BOG SEATS in England for as long as i can remember and step through were nothing to do with the gears they were all 3 speed semis .....

sorry for sticking my nose in .....martyn

Well if it is the frame type and not the gearing.. How would this be a step through and a nuovo not ??? This isnt a flat fully open like a lambretta etc.

Ebay auction for a C90 stepthrough..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-C90-STEPTHROUG...bayphotohosting

Look closely at those handlebars and the foot break .... I think I see a clutch

Step throughs dont have clutches

And thats a stick in the hedge I think.. I have never seen a c90 (c50 or whatever) with a clutch ever.. Did they ever make them ??

[madjbs]

You can get a Honda Wave with a clutch though.

[jdinasia]

Since I live in Thailand and this is a Thai based forum I'll stick with the terminology I've found prevalent in Thailand.

step-thru = frame style; nothing to do with gears

to each his own though; not really a big deal

hi livinLOS. the honda,s c50 c70 c90 were called BOG SEATS in England for as long as i can remember and step through were nothing to do with the gears they were all 3 speed semis .....

sorry for sticking my nose in .....martyn

Well if it is the frame type and not the gearing.. How would this be a step through and a nuovo not ??? This isnt a flat fully open like a lambretta etc.

Ebay auction for a C90 stepthrough..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-C90-STEPTHROUG...bayphotohosting

Look closely at those handlebars and the foot break .... I think I see a clutch

Step throughs dont have clutches

And thats a stick in the hedge I think.. I have never seen a c90 (c50 or whatever) with a clutch ever.. Did they ever make them ??

I don't know if they did ... but I did find clutch kits available for sale for the honda c90 when I looked online

[LivinLOS]

Would that be a clutch kit for the stepthrough gearbox ??

[philrjones]

Hi all,

I rode a C90 in the UK for years - took my test etc. It didn't have a clutch, just a 3 sp manual shift. As for step throughs - yes it defeinitely referes to the body/frame type (in my neck of the woods!). Still, what the hel_l. All bikes are fun, some more than others. I used to be Chief Motorcycle Riding Instructor for the National M/C Training Course in the UK - anyone remember that? Wow, them were the days - I was getting paid for riding bikes!! I've had all sorts of bikes since, but I still really like scoots. Living in Aussie now, but have ridden Waves, Dreams, Mio's etc when I'm in LOS. I took out an Aprilia Scarabeo 500 last week for a test ride (yes 500 cc scoot!!) Unbelievable. But I've got my eye on a Gilera Nexus 500. The Suzuki Bergman 650 (and other maxi-scooters) don't do it for me. Google them and have a look. Good grief, if only I could get those in Thailand when I come to live! Anyone know if there are maxi-scooters in Thailand?

Cheers

Phil

[blakegeee]

Yes Step-Through definatley refers to the frame, although step-through frames are usually always automatic so I can see how people could think step-through means automatic.

"Good grief, if only I could get those in Thailand when I come to live! Anyone know if there are maxi-scooters in Thailand?

Cheers

Phil"

I used to have an older Honda Helix 250cc that i imported to Canada from Florida, and I saw one the same in Vietnam, although importing a bike to Thailand is an expensive Pain-In-The-@$$! If you looked around long enough, I am sure you could come up with one in Thailand.

[madjbs]

There is quite a few of those in Thailand, my girlfriends Dad has one as well actually.

[keg]

In my opinion if you decide on one of the automatics stick with the Air Blade or the Nuovo if you are a farang and wiill be the main rider. The Mio, Click and Fino are stripped down in size to cut costs such as only one shock, smaller brakes etc. They may be fine for small size thai rider such as wife but the Nuovo and Air Blade will be worth the extra money for the bigger bike to support farang size riders or double riders. Personally I have a Nuovo 7000K in one year with no problems and rides well with both me (95kilos) and the Thia wife on board. You can make a strong argument for the wave in the cost and durability however I much prefer the Nuovo in ride comfort. Have never riden an Air Blade but would imagine them to ride as well as the Nuovo. Rented a wave for a month and hated riding it though it was the 100 and not the 125 and this was after renting a Nuovo for 4 months.

My 2 bahts worth!!!

Keg

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

What a discussion here about step-thru bikes... OF COURSE that is the FRAME as you "step thru the bike" to get on it! And why they call semi-automatic c50/70/90's that? Easy because those were probably the first popular step-thru FRAMED motorbikes available Honda was the first to make the clutchless-manual shifting gearbox in the Cub and to date this engine is the world's most produced engine (still runs on in the Wave, altough much modernized) and the Cub itself with over 30 million units the world's most built motorized vehicle (also still produced!)

So compared to the new variomatic things, yes, the "semi-manual" has 50 years if experience behind it, is very well proven and rock solid. The advantage is obviously that you can change gears as you please and chug along in city traffic in high gear/low rpm, hence save fuel. Variomatics tend to go "upside down" - you rev them to highest rpm and the variomatic selects the transmission ratio. The downside is obvious - it uses more fuel. Has an advantage as well - very good pick-up from zero.

Many of the automatics i see running around here are less than a year old and make horrible noises as if they were about to fall apart. The variomatic has it's very own set of problems - many parts in there that can and will break (weights which are rubber-coated, that rubber rubs off and then you're standing still, the transmission belt which is rubber as well, springs that tend to become weak quickly etc etc etc).

To the OP - try to convince your wife to get a Wave. Solid product, excellent running, cheap service (and parts!!) available at every street corner.

Best regards......

Thanh

[12DrinkMore]

Hi, buy a Honda wave with front disk brakes.

My eight year old Wave is still going great after over 90,000 kms,

A new chain every 30,000 or so, oil change 90 Baht every six months, new tyres maybe every 15,000 kms if that; that's it, nothing else to do. And every street corner has a repair shop with bits 24 hours/day (almost).

Keep tyres pumped up, otherwise you'll get through innertubes.

[Richard-BKK]

Depending on your budget I would even just skip the smaller bikes and go directly to something bigger. Read a similar story about a other foreigner in Thailand Buying a new bike in Thailand

Edited February 8, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[a2396]

Hi

What a discussion here about step-thru bikes... OF COURSE that is the FRAME as you "step thru the bike" to get on it! And why they call semi-automatic c50/70/90's that? Easy because those were probably the first popular step-thru FRAMED motorbikes available Honda was the first to make the clutchless-manual shifting gearbox in the Cub and to date this engine is the world's most produced engine (still runs on in the Wave, altough much modernized) and the Cub itself with over 30 million units the world's most built motorized vehicle (also still produced!)

So compared to the new variomatic things, yes, the "semi-manual" has 50 years if experience behind it, is very well proven and rock solid. The advantage is obviously that you can change gears as you please and chug along in city traffic in high gear/low rpm, hence save fuel. Variomatics tend to go "upside down" - you rev them to highest rpm and the variomatic selects the transmission ratio. The downside is obvious - it uses more fuel. Has an advantage as well - very good pick-up from zero.

Many of the automatics i see running around here are less than a year old and make horrible noises as if they were about to fall apart. The variomatic has it's very own set of problems - many parts in there that can and will break (weights which are rubber-coated, that rubber rubs off and then you're standing still, the transmission belt which is rubber as well, springs that tend to become weak quickly etc etc etc).

To the OP - try to convince your wife to get a Wave. Solid product, excellent running, cheap service (and parts!!) available at every street corner.

Best regards......

Thanh

I will agree about the springs. I have a Mio that has 20,000 K. I replaced the stock rearshock with a heavy duty model sold by Yamaha & it made a major improvement in stability. I am thinking od replacing the front ones as well. I think the stock springs are inadequate for everyone except flyweight Thais.

[revive]

Here's another 2 cents worth for your consideration.

Coming from the US I have been used to a much larger standard of motorcycle, so I thought it best to test ride as many scooters as I can get my hands on.. here is what I found (also note, I'm not a Thai fly-weight, at 100kg and 6ft tall, I need a machine that can handle the weight as well as remain comfortable on my trips from Kata to Kathu and Phuket City - 20km+)

1) I rode the Nuovo Elegance first, and at 135cc it was the largest scooter I tested.. it was flawles, comfortable, and the smoothest and fastest scooter I have ridden here

2) The second ride was the Sachs MadAss, not a scooter really, but I had the chance to ride it.. true clutch/manual as I am used to, rode fine, not as smooth or powerful as the Nuovo even with it's manual. It's light weight made it feel like a toy even thought the buld is good

3) Third up was the Honda Wave 125 - it was odd to me that the gears are inverted (meaning Neutral is at the top+, 1st at the Top and then 3 more gears by pressing down!) I'm used to 1 down, 5 up for gears, so that was a little odd.. but it road well, was fairly comfortable on a 20km trip. One thing I noticed was that even with the manu-matic gears available, the Nuovo seemed much more capable of tackling hills without having to hit them at mach speed.. you could just pull up them, no problem. With the wave, unless you're really cruising, you have to downshift to keep from getting run over. I prefer the backbone design of the Wave, as opposed the the step-thru design of the Nuovo..

4) Suzuki Hayate 110 - old, capable but not something I would recommend for long trips.. it was a family members bike and was available.. got from A to B..

NOTE: I HAVE NOT ridden the air blade, click, fino, mio or the other seemingly popular bikes. I can say that when I sat on the click, fino and mio, they simply seemed too small and toy-ish (no offense to owners of this bike) - at my size, they were simply too small and light. I have no experience with the Air Blade but our neighbor has one and loves it.. she's a rather small thai, so not sure how the bike would fair with a 100kg Farang on it

All in all, I would prefer the Nuovo Elegance any day of the week out of the bikes I have ridden. It was solid, handled well and has impressive power. Although I prefer a true clutch/gears, the auto was seamless (CVT) and transparent.. the thing just went, and went well. Breaks were strong and in my opinion it seemed more balanced with the weight lower.. price was a bit more than the others.. but, from my experience, you get what you pay for.

I do have to say that there is something to be said for either the Click or the Wave,.. both of which can be found on the streets en mass, so parts and service are probably more readily available.. for someone looking for a long term solution that might be a major factor.. for me.. looking for a bike for the year.. a new one, without the wear and tear of a used scooter, will do just fine.

Cheers and best of luck in your decision

Please also let us know here how you found the test bikes to be.. I'm very interested.

[maichai40]

Here's another 2 cents worth for your consideration.

Coming from the US I have been used to a much larger standard of motorcycle, so I thought it best to test ride as many scooters as I can get my hands on.. here is what I found (also note, I'm not a Thai fly-weight, at 100kg and 6ft tall, I need a machine that can handle the weight as well as remain comfortable on my trips from Kata to Kathu and Phuket City - 20km+)

1) I rode the Nuovo Elegance first, and at 135cc it was the largest scooter I tested.. it was flawles, comfortable, and the smoothest and fastest scooter I have ridden here

2) The second ride was the Sachs MadAss, not a scooter really, but I had the chance to ride it.. true clutch/manual as I am used to, rode fine, not as smooth or powerful as the Nuovo even with it's manual. It's light weight made it feel like a toy even thought the buld is good

3) Third up was the Honda Wave 125 - it was odd to me that the gears are inverted (meaning Neutral is at the top+, 1st at the Top and then 3 more gears by pressing down!) I'm used to 1 down, 5 up for gears, so that was a little odd.. but it road well, was fairly comfortable on a 20km trip. One thing I noticed was that even with the manu-matic gears available, the Nuovo seemed much more capable of tackling hills without having to hit them at mach speed.. you could just pull up them, no problem. With the wave, unless you're really cruising, you have to downshift to keep from getting run over. I prefer the backbone design of the Wave, as opposed the the step-thru design of the Nuovo..

4) Suzuki Hayate 110 - old, capable but not something I would recommend for long trips.. it was a family members bike and was available.. got from A to B..

NOTE: I HAVE NOT ridden the air blade, click, fino, mio or the other seemingly popular bikes. I can say that when I sat on the click, fino and mio, they simply seemed too small and toy-ish (no offense to owners of this bike) - at my size, they were simply too small and light. I have no experience with the Air Blade but our neighbor has one and loves it.. she's a rather small thai, so not sure how the bike would fair with a 100kg Farang on it

All in all, I would prefer the Nuovo Elegance any day of the week out of the bikes I have ridden. It was solid, handled well and has impressive power. Although I prefer a true clutch/gears, the auto was seamless (CVT) and transparent.. the thing just went, and went well. Breaks were strong and in my opinion it seemed more balanced with the weight lower.. price was a bit more than the others.. but, from my experience, you get what you pay for.

I do have to say that there is something to be said for either the Click or the Wave,.. both of which can be found on the streets en mass, so parts and service are probably more readily available.. for someone looking for a long term solution that might be a major factor.. for me.. looking for a bike for the year.. a new one, without the wear and tear of a used scooter, will do just fine.

Cheers and best of luck in your decision

Please also let us know here how you found the test bikes to be.. I'm very interested.

I agree with your analysys of your test drives, but you didn't talk about fuel consumption.

The Nouvo is probably the best for you but drinks like a Ferrari, you noticed that? If money it is not a problem is the good choice but 20km/litre for me would be too expensive.

I am a proud and happy owner of a Honda Click now 35.000km, never a problem, did long trips (Phuket-Koh Lanta and Koh Samui) and i wouldn't change it for anything else, but i am 75kg, i don't know if it is comfortable for heavyweights.

But i can tell what the Thai think about brands and models on the market because i spoke with many local mechanics.

The best is Click (quick and reliable) and Wave (economic and last forever), so Honda n.1!!

Yamaha is a heavy drinker and Suzuki unreliable. This explain the second hand prices of Honda (expensive) and the others (much cheapers).

[OzMick]

I rent bikes on samui and won't touch any of the automatics. Why - simply "reliability". I have 5 year old waves that have never had more than routine maintenance, yet regularly see almost new autos with the engine completely stripped down, or the belt drive in pieces. the smaller wheel versions also have a lot more punctures, and much less gyroscopic stability.

Thais here love to rent out the Click because it has the combi-brake, another way of saying a recipe for a disaster with marked-up repair bills. the combi-brake links the back and front brakes on the left-side lever, similar to the moto-guzzi system. the difference is that the guzzi is a v-twin with heaps of engine braking capacity when you need back wheel braking only - and you will. the click has 0 engine braking, and more accidents than other scooter because of this system.

if you have one of these bikes, my advice is to disconnect the cable linking the left lever with the master cylinder. mail it to honda and demand the retail price be refunded