Are You A Thief ?

[gummy]

Whe I was a lad I was brought up to understand that standing around gossiping during working hours was not only non-productive for your employer it was also in effect stealing time for which you are being paid to undertake a specific task. Indeed in more recent times it was not unheard of for some employers to consider that smoking breaks were not part of the working day.

Lately the internet has become so widespread with many employees having access to it. Many employers provide this facililty on the proviso that it is used in the course of company business.

As we know this priviledge is often abused. Take a look at TV even and see what time of day it is where some of the contributors are purported to be and you can see the abuse that is occuring, unless that is everybody has retired or not employed. So often many of these folks take the moral high ground in so many areas yet appear to forget that they themselves could be seen as thieves by virtue of the fact that they themselves are stealing their employers time by communicating with TV during working hours.

Hypocrites or thieves or neither ?

What do others think ?

[GuestHouse]

The answer to your question would depend on a number of things. First and foremost the 'Contract of Employment'

Here in Europe that would certainly specify a basic number of hours and then specify if payment is made for time above the basic hours.

It may also allow working from home, working for different clients and increasingly it may include statements about internet usage.

It would be difficult to judge any of that without seeing the contract.

The old 40 hrs a week and being 'quatered' for arriving late are thankfully a thing of the past.

Thngs have changed a bit since your day.

[boxingbeauty]

I use the internet at work for personal and business use. It would most likely be labelled as skiving. However, it is the only perk I get, so I do take advantage of it. At the end of the day, I still complete my work.

I'm a Sales Manager for a hotel and this is my package:

* 45 hour week

* 1/2 hour lunch

* No paid overtime

* No Bank Holidays (they are not a legal entitlement as yet!)

* 20 days holiday

* No sick pay, other than SSP ... if I take a day off sick, it is minused off my wages!

* If I take 1-2 hours off to go to the doctor, it gets minused off my wages!

* No perks, i.e. discount rates, food, dry cleaning, clothing account ... It is a hotel afterall!

* And a bottom-end-of-the-pay-scale salary

Yes, I know it is my choice to work here, but just thought I'd highlight what some companies are like. So, I don't feel bad for using work time to write this!

[NaiGreg]

Don't assume casual usage it is theft. Legally it is not.

And employers (with IQ > 60; or age < 60) do not really believe that it is, regardless of what their policies may say.

-NG

[jdinasia]

Easy to deal with if an employer wishes to. However, happy employees tend to do better work

[muckypups]

It's outrageous.. I'm self-employed and I'm sacking myself immediately...

[lazeeboy]

It's outrageous.. I'm self-employed and I'm sacking myself immediately...

id steal the toilet rolls given the chance

[markr]

I sell cars for a very large brand and spend 'most' of my day on the internet!

I hit my targets and make my company a huge amount of money, they are aware that I use there time for personal gains but I dont think they realise quite how long per day.

I work every weekend and most bank holidays, rarely take a lunch break away from my desk and travel a very long way to get here.

All in all i think it's ok to 'steal' there time!

Mark

Ps If your reading this boss....................... i'll clear me desk!!!!!!!

[boxingbeauty]

Well said, Mark. Snap ... just finished my lunch at my desk!

[blizzard]

if you dont know if yr using company time for personal things then you are probably a lousy employee.

[Wolfie]

Indeed in more recent times it was not unheard of for some employers to consider that smoking breaks were not part of the working day.

More work gets done in the smoking area than your average 1hr meeting at my company... fact

[jdinasia]

if you dont know if yr using company time for personal things then you are probably a lousy employee.

Never had a boss that would agree with you at least regarding me

[blizzard]

theres always exceptions.

but do you agree with my premise?

[qualtrough]

Work two days per week at a sinecure and more often than not I have nothing to do, so I spend a lot of time surfing the Web. You can only read so many newspapers and magazines.

Rest of the time I run my own business. I waste a tremendous amount of my time on the Web there as well!

[jdinasia]

theres always exceptions.

but do you agree with my premise?

Nope ...

faulty premise ... assumes that you are an Office/manufacturing drone ... or that you cannot manage your time well enough to accomplish your job

[uptou]

great thread,so who takes the higher moral ground here,the employed dosser,or the unemployed dosser,like myself?

[Maigo6]

One of my perks being in Japan is using the mega fast internet, I have it in my apartment too, it's fast lads....I downloaded the movie '300' in only 45 minutes !!!

And of course, no websites are banned like they are in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

One of my perks being in Japan is using the mega fast internet, I have it in my apartment too, it's fast lads....I downloaded the movie '300' in only 45 minutes !!!

And of course, no websites are banned like they are in Thailand.

you mean you aren't in Loei? Go6

[Maigo6]

One of my perks being in Japan is using the mega fast internet, I have it in my apartment too, it's fast lads....I downloaded the movie '300' in only 45 minutes !!!

And of course, no websites are banned like they are in Thailand.

you mean you aren't in Loei? Go6

Correct, in Tokyo right now, back in Loei in 3 weeks .

Edited May 18, 2007 by Maigo6

[markr]

great thread,so who takes the higher moral ground here,the employed dosser,or the unemployed dosser,like myself?

No moral highground,

Employed:: I complete my tasks and then milk the bosses system!

Un-employed:: Do nothing and still milk the system!!

Cheers

Edited May 18, 2007 by markr

[uptou]

ok,thanks markr,ive got it.now what about incredibly high post counts,(eg.possibly just a dosser,but he doesnt admit it),& taking a higher moral ground?

[toptuan]

...and one of the perks of teaching, too. I'm contracted to teach 15 hours a week, write one textbook and do a research project within a year. The rest of the time is mine to TV my life away at school office or home office.....whoopee!

[larvidchr]

Employed:: I complete my tasks and then milk the bosses system!

Cheers

Not that I care , but just to put things straight, you are not milking your bosses, but the costumers, try this one next time you sell a car,

"the normal price of this car sir is xxx, then on top of that there is a small service charge x, this covers my colleges and my own private internet surfing during work hours, here is your keys enjoy".

Then wait for your boss to call you

Edited May 18, 2007 by larvidchr

[markr]

ok,thanks markr,ive got it.now what about incredibly high post counts,(eg.possibly just a dosser,but he doesnt admit it),& taking a higher moral ground?

If that makes you feel better.

[cclub75]

Hypocrites or thieves or neither ?

No... Only manager and/or owner.

Difficult to steal from yourself, right ?

However, your comment is interesting.

Internet abuse (chat, web surfing etc.) is a real problem within offices in thai companies...

[markr]

Employed:: I complete my tasks and then milk the bosses system!

Cheers

Not that I care , but just to put things straight, you are not milking your bosses, but the costumers, try this one next time you sell a car,

"the normal price of this car sir is xxx, then on top of that there is a small service charge x, this covers my colleges and my own private internet surfing during work hours, here is your keys enjoy".

Then wait for your boss to call you

What I actualy say is "thats the price of your car, included in that price is our profit margin which covers our costs and my wages............. enjoy !!!

Thats the whole point in selling them!

Or do you think businesses should not make money??

Many thanks

Have a nice day

Ps my boss loves it when I make money!!

Edited May 18, 2007 by markr

[jdinasia]

Employed:: I complete my tasks and then milk the bosses system!

Cheers

Not that I care , but just to put things straight, you are not milking your bosses, but the costumers, try this one next time you sell a car,

"the normal price of this car sir is xxx, then on top of that there is a small service charge x, this covers my colleges and my own private internet surfing during work hours, here is your keys enjoy".

Then wait for your boss to call you

What I actualy say is "thats the price of your car, included in that price is our profit margin which covers our costs and my wages............. enjoy !!!

Thats the whole point in selling them!

Or do you think businesses should not make money??

Many thanks

Have a nice day

Ps my boss loves it when I make money!!

Hard to get the point across to some folks .... even when I was NOT emplyed in sales much of my time was up to me to manage ... my employers ALL loved me.. why? I made them money! (or in the case of NGO's ... I made them contacts that brought them money whilst doing whatever my job description also entailed!

Be GOOD at what you do ... perform ABOVE expectations and then no one ever even looks at what you do with your down time! Why? they don't care! Success is all the excuse you need!

It would even work for talented teachers ... if the students actually performed far above expectations then nary a boss would care if you popped into Thai Visa

[jetjock]

As an employer, as long as my employees do a good job and get their jobs done, I could care less how much time they spend on the internet if it makes them happy on the job. I think I would rather have them on the internet than just sitting around daydreaming or making idle chatter.

[fxm88]

Whe I was a lad I was brought up to understand that standing around gossiping during working hours was not only non-productive for your employer it was also in effect stealing...

Your compulsory state-controlled education appears to have been successful in implanting a serf mentality -- congratulations all around!

[kmart]

Whe I was a lad I was brought up to understand that standing around gossiping during working hours was not only non-productive for your employer it was also in effect stealing...

Your compulsory state-controlled education appears to have been successful in implanting a serf mentality -- congratulations all around!

You never had to sweep t' chimneys, or dig for t' coal?

Luckily, I work as a professional thief, so this (surfing t' Web) is probably the most honest thing I do all day.