How The British Lost India

[GuestHouse]

I had occassion to contact the British Embassy in Bangkok today, I'll not do that again in a hurry. I had the distinct feeling that I was looked upon as a piece of dirt that had been dragged in on someone's boot.

This was compounded by my suspision that the guy I spoke to had more urgent matters awaiting his attention; I swear I could hear the sound of Tea and Muffins being served.

This ladies and gentlemen is how the British lost India!

[happymanme]

we didnt lose india they just nearly all moved to the uk

[simon43]

It is often suggested that on emergency matters (not Thai GF visas!), Brits will get treated better if they actually approach another embassy, such as the Dutch or Swedish.

It really does shame me how bad ALL British embassies are. I'm actually voting with my feet and getting an Irish passport (my family background is Irish).

Simon

[Martin]

Guesthouse: which Section were you in contact with?. Was it Consular?, or Visa?, or Commercial? or what?.

Seriously, this is a good year to do something about getting better Embassy services.

Take a look at www.fco.gov.uk and find "UK International Priorities: A Strategy for the FCO".

If the full 83 (downloadable; pdf) pages are a bit daunting, there is a 3-page summary giving the highlights.

I recommend photocopying the part of Page 3 of that Summary headed "Worldwide Services to UK Citizens" and highlighting its final sentence "We aim to achieve consistent high standards'. It goes well as the top two inches of the sheet of paper on which you jot down your notes during your discussion with any Embassy official, and it helps to flag up for you which of your personal files to keep that piece of paper in.

Although I will help, in any way I can, anybody who works to open up the debate on the whole subject of what overseas Brits get for the taxes they pay, I am particularly interested in two parts.

The first is the phenomenon of the 'self-exported pensioner'. Every thousand jobs that is exported to a call-centre in Southern India gets noticed, and there is some thinking going on about export-import of jobs. But thousands of pensioners export themselves, and a recent survey seemed to indicate that the majority of younger Brits aspire to join us. The time to think about the knock-on effects of mass migrations is before they become very big, not leave it till afterwards.

The second thing I want to know more about, before the various embassies report back to London this autumn on what they have done to meet the objectives defined in the strategy document, is the cost of the present totally-overloaded service of Consular Assistance and how much this puts on the price of each passport. Page 46 says "Consular assistance is funded by levying a small percentage of the cost of every UK passport". I e-mailed the Vice Consul in Bangkok about this some months ago, and got no reply. I happen to be passing through Bangkok on Friday-week, so I'll see if an enquiry on foot gets me any further.

From Westminster contacts, I will find out when there will be a debate on Foreign Affairs following up this Strategy document, and who we could ask to voice our feelings about what is appropriate Embassy service provision for this day and age.

I know there will be plenty of bar stool defeatists who will just waste their breath saying "Nothing will ever improve". But if there are any more around who believe like me that "Constant dripping can even wear away stone", I hope they will post on here, or PM me. Dripping sandwiches helped me, as a lad, through WWII. Maybe a bit of dripping on the FCO will help keep me young.

[medicinebox]

Q. What goes in and out when the doorbells pressed.

A. bin ladens ringpiece.

And don't think staff's at the British Embassy dosen't either. You don't happen to look like a suicide bomber do you?

He was probably keen to get out the back, and sit under his desk with tea and muffins..

[KevinN]

we didnt lose india they just nearly all moved to the uk

DID NOT; most of em moved to the USA and now own all convenience stores,self service gas stations,and all motels,except the expensive ones.

And when you try to do business with them,they give you the same snotty shit that you would get from a Brit.consular center.

But the real reason that England lost India was because they used beef suet for water proofing their paper powder cartridges and the turbans refused to tear them open with their teeth,so therefore no more shots were fired.

[Stocky]

we didnt lose india they just nearly all moved to the uk

DID NOT; most of em moved to the USA and now own all convenience stores,self service gas stations,and all motels,except the expensive ones.

And when you try to do business with them,they give you the same snotty shit that you would get from a Brit.consular center.

But the real reason that England lost India was because they used beef suet for water proofing their paper powder cartridges and the turbans refused to tear them open with their teeth,so therefore no more shots were fired.

What a load of crap, small minded and bigoted at that!

India gained it's independence because it had fought (peacefully) for it, and in a post WWII world, Empire was an anachronism. Apart from which, a financial drained UK was in no way able to look after itself let alone its colonies.

[Stocky]

Seriously, this is a good year to do something about getting better Embassy services.

Take a look at www.fco.gov.uk and find "UK International Priorities: A Strategy for the FCO".

Thanks for that, I'm just downloading it, I'll ponder at my leisure.

[KevinN]

"What a load of crap, small minded and bigoted at that!''

And I see that you even got the lefty liberal "B" word in there,,well goody on you,even if your eye do look like little x's

[Stocky]

"What a load of crap, small minded and bigoted at that!''

And I see that you even got the lefty liberal "B" word in there,,well goody on you,even if your eye do look like little x's

What's wrong with my eyes?

They look just like that in bright sunlight after a beer too many the night before

[Nam Kao]

I get the same treatment from the US embassy, there is one lady there

that is absolutely steamed i married a thai girl !!

[GuestHouse]

It was a commercial matter relating to registering a company product.

I discussed this with a couple of guys from the office and they both told me that the treatment I received was a lot better than is dished out in the visa section (Lord only knows what that can be like!)

As for information on improving services, I'm going to take a look at that.

[Mr Helper]

No need to complain about the British Embassy, or download 83 pages of drivel, as a good friend of mine who worked for the British embassy told me that the embassy regulary monitors this and other ex-pat websites, especially when it contains items about themselves, so they will most probably see your complaint and hopefully act upon it, making the service much better.

[Up2U]

we didnt lose india they just nearly all moved to the uk

DID NOT; most of em moved to the USA and now own all convenience stores,self service gas stations,and all motels,except the expensive ones.

And when you try to do business with them,they give you the same snotty shit that you would get from a Brit.consular center.

But the real reason that England lost India was because they used beef suet for water proofing their paper powder cartridges and the turbans refused to tear them open with their teeth,so therefore no more shots were fired.

What a load of crap, small minded and bigoted at that!

India gained it's independence because it had fought (peacefully) for it, and in a post WWII world, Empire was an anachronism. Apart from which, a financial drained UK was in no way able to look after itself let alone its colonies.

Two wrongs - and they don't make a right!

Cartridges - folk-myth about the Indian Mutiny. New cartridges introduced into a new rifle required to have the wrapping opened - easiest way was to bite off the end. Agitators in the army (and outside) told the Muslims that the cartridge was coated in pig fat, told the Hindus it was coated in beef fat. But this was only one of many episodes that built up to the Indian Mutiny. The indians were revolting anyway - a few sparks set the kindling ablaze.

After WWII there was enormous pressure from America for the colonial powers (basically France and Britain, but also the Netherlands) to dismantle their empires, partially because America thought that they would foster communism if they remained under colonial rule, but mainly because America had little or no influence in these countries while the colonial power was there, aimed to have enormous influence by being 'liberationist'.

With regard to Enbassies, Consulates, etc., of the former colonial exploiter England - the only time I have had good relations with the Consulates was in Jeddah, where the Commercial Attache (first Wayne Evans, followed by Gareth O'Brian) went out of his way to be helpful. Gave up spare time, prepared to meet, discuss matters with very little notice, investigated and forwarded information freely. Two excellent men in a sea of mediocrity.

[Payne]

The British didn't lose India. A dreadful little Prime Minister called Major Attlee and a pansy Viceroy named Mountbatten (alias Louis of Battenberg) gave the place away.

There was no India before the British put togher a vast collection of tribal states with the remenants of the former Mugal Empire. For over 200 years the British ruled the place properly and put it firmly on the road to prosperity. From what I saw on a recent visit, although there is a growing middle class, most Indians would have been better off under the benevolent Raj.

[meemiathai]

And they are charging 20,000 baht for each application(successful or not) for Thai wives going to the UK! Is that true?

[Limbo]

There was no India before the British put togher a vast collection of tribal states with the remenants of the former Mugal Empire. For over 200 years the British ruled the place properly and put it firmly on the road to prosperity. From what I saw on a recent visit, although there is a growing middle class, most Indians would have been better off under the benevolent Raj.

George Orwell's book, with a title similar to 'Days in Burma' gives an insight in the incredible arrogance and ignorance of the commanding ranks of the British Indian Army. These characteristics might have played a role as well.

A good friend, who is almost ninety now, served over there as an engineer. Being young but well-educated he was immediatly granted a higher rank. He described the situation as 'íncredible'.

You can compare it with the weakening aspects of incest. The structure of the British Army at that time was comparable with the American and many other armies now. What human characteristics do you need to make career in the army? Never say no, obey and try to please the one who holds the rank above you.

This might bring you to the top. And then? That is where the problem starts. From being a perfect pleaser and obeyer you arrive in a position to take responsabilities.

But many years of pleasing and obeying have prevented you from thinking, from developing a vision aso aso aso...

If it wasn't extremely sad, it would be funny to listen to these one-lined nonsense rethorics the 'commanders' in Iraq are coffing up to-day. Also there the arrogance is based on ignorance. History repeats itself.

And by the way: there was no Australia before Britain start sending people there. How was Australia lost for the British?

Did they send the wrong people also there ;-) ?

[astral]

And they are charging 20,000 baht for each application(successful or not) for Thai wives going to the UK! Is that true?

I sincerely hope not!

It is an outrageous price for a visa application.

[Martin]

It would be at least as fair to say that Britain didn't lose India, simply because you can't 'lose' what you have failed to 'win'.

Military victories, and even economic domination, only conquer a country. It is not won till the hearts and minds of its citizens accept the conqueror. Britain's campaign to win India stalled early in this 'Stage III', and so Britain did not win India.

As to the British retreat from its campaign to win India, it would also be at least as fair to say that that Attlee and Mountbatten did a pretty good damage limitation job in a 'powder keg' scenario.

I was but a stripling at the time, but I remember my father fearing far worse would befall India than actually did.

It was a 'Harvest Beer' outcome ("Any better they wouldn't have let us have, any worse we couldn't have stomached").

[fatter than harry]

I must say I have nothing but love and adoration for the British Embassy Consular service, I renewed my passport last year and they were helpful and efficient, my phonecalls were answered promptly and helpfully as well as a couple of replies to my emailed questions, god knows I was cringing at the thought of going through the Embassy grinder but I have to say it gets two thumbs, my highest mark.

[maerim]

Our education correspondent writes

DID NOT; most of em moved to the USA and now own all convenience stores,self service gas stations,and all motels,except the expensive ones.

And when you try to do business with them,they give you the same snotty shit that you would get from a Brit.consular center.

But the real reason that England lost India was because they used beef suet for water proofing their paper powder cartridges and the turbans refused to tear them open with their teeth,so therefore no more shots were fired.

Apart from the facts that most of the above people from the subcontinent are from Pakistan and Bangladesh and not India.

The people given the cartridges were Muslims and not Hindus, the stuff in question was pork fat and not beef suet and the incident didn't happen anyway in the Indian mutiny of 1857 it was just a rumour.

The British handed over the reins of government in 1947, not bad only 90 years out

It's a spot on analysis absolutely, a delight to read, keep up the good work.

Looking forward to your new book "KevinN's history of the world part 1"

I am still trying to find out what a "Brit consular centre is" any clues?

[davethailand]

And they are charging 20,000 baht for each application(successful or not) for Thai wives going to the UK! Is that true?

Thats complete rubbish,

a 6 month application is 2700 bht successful or not and the most expensive visa (5 years) costs 6000bht.

[Khun ?]

There was no India before the British put togher a vast collection of tribal states with the remenants of the former  Mugal Empire. For over 200 years the British ruled the place properly and put it firmly on the road to prosperity. From what I saw on a recent visit, although there is a growing middle class, most Indians would have been better off under the benevolent Raj.

George Orwell's book, with a title similar to 'Days in Burma' gives an insight in the incredible arrogance and ignorance of the commanding ranks of the British Indian Army. These characteristics might have played a role as well.

A good friend, who is almost ninety now, served over there as an engineer. Being young but well-educated he was immediatly granted a higher rank. He described the situation as 'íncredible'.

You can compare it with the weakening aspects of incest. The structure of the British Army at that time was comparable with the American and many other armies now. What human characteristics do you need to make career in the army? Never say no, obey and try to please the one who holds the rank above you.

This might bring you to the top. And then? That is where the problem starts. From being a perfect pleaser and obeyer you arrive in a position to take responsabilities.

But many years of pleasing and obeying have prevented you from thinking, from developing a vision aso aso aso...

If it wasn't extremely sad, it would be funny to listen to these one-lined nonsense rethorics the 'commanders' in Iraq are coffing up to-day. Also there the arrogance is based on ignorance. History repeats itself.

And by the way: there was no Australia before Britain start sending people there. How was Australia lost for the British?

Did they send the wrong people also there ;-) ?

The problem being as stated by others you tried to own something that was not yours, the people of a foreign country. Britain has failed on every attempt of this.

Australia is a country of its own and if you tried to take it over now you would

end up like all others you have tried to do this with. You could of learned something from the French years ago. Influencing a government does not mean you own the country. A very big difference in the two.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is this the Bear Pit MK III ? Just wondering

[Pink Mist]

Is this the Bear Pit MK III ? Just wondering

Rumour has it the bear pit has poster vacancies

[organic]

After WWII there was enormous pressure from America for the colonial powers (basically France and Britain, but also the Netherlands) to dismantle their empires, partially because America thought that they would foster communism if they remained under colonial rule, but mainly because America had little or no influence in these countries while the colonial power was there, aimed to have enormous influence by being 'liberationist'.

The US supported France in re-taking one part of it's empire, Vietnam, with all the tragic consequences that ensued. Even to the point of losing one of the US's wartime allies, Ho Chi Minh.

Sorry, but I don't see how that fits into the scenario you're describing.

Apologies to the mods if I'm steering further into bear-pit territory.

[Stocky]

Is this the Bear Pit MK III ?  Just wondering

Rumour has it the bear pit has poster vacancies

Not surprised, last time I took a look in the pit it was trench warfare rather than any form of debate.

[meemiathai]

And they are charging 20,000 baht for each application(successful or not) for Thai wives going to the UK!  Is that true?

Thats complete rubbish,

a 6 month application is 2700 bht successful or not and the most expensive visa (5 years) costs 6000bht.

Thanks. Dave

A Thai female friend of mine who had married a UK farang recently and is applying to stay in the UK with him told me that. Just wondering what went wrong in our communication?

[KevinN]

we didnt lose india they just nearly all moved to the uk

DID NOT; most of em moved to the USA and now own all convenience stores,self service gas stations,and all motels,except the expensive ones.

And when you try to do business with them,they give you the same snotty shit that you would get from a Brit.consular center.

But the real reason that England lost India was because they used beef suet for water proofing their paper powder cartridges and the turbans refused to tear them open with their teeth,so therefore no more shots were fired.

What a load of crap, small minded and bigoted at that!

India gained it's independence because it had fought (peacefully) for it, and in a post WWII world, Empire was an anachronism. Apart from which, a financial drained UK was in no way able to look after itself let alone its colonies.

Two wrongs - and they don't make a right!

Cartridges - folk-myth about the Indian Mutiny. New cartridges introduced into a new rifle required to have the wrapping opened - easiest way was to bite off the end. Agitators in the army (and outside) told the Muslims that the cartridge was coated in pig fat, told the Hindus it was coated in beef fat. But this was only one of many episodes that built up to the Indian Mutiny. The indians were revolting anyway - a few sparks set the kindling ablaze

I Know that,But I like to pull a chain or two when the answer is so obvious that anyone that has ever got past Alley Op in the funnies knows the correct answer,But it appears that MAYRIM THE MOUTH never made it that far.

[Emuu]

Regarding the losing of India.

Its careless to lose something small like a princess, but to lose a whole continent is just plain bad form!

Surely someone can help them discover where they placed it.