Bangkok Pattaya Hospital..Where is the Care?...

[fxm88]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that people being turned away in emergency situations in America is rare and illegal.

This practice of "patient dumping" was only outlawed in the United States in 1986. Therefore Thailand is currently only 20 years behind the times.

For more see Frequently Asked Questions about the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA):

1. What is EMTALA?

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act is a statute which governs when and how a patient may be (1) refused treatment or (2) transferred from one hospital to another when he is in an unstable medical condition.

EMTALA was passed as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, and it is sometimes referred to as "the COBRA law". In fact, a number of different laws come under that general name. Another very familiar provision, also referred to under the COBRA name, is the statute governing continuation of medical insurance benefits after termination of employment.

...

The avowed purpose of the statute is to prevent hospitals from rejecting patients, refusing to treat them, or transferring them to "charity hospitals" or "county hospitals" because they are unable to pay or are covered under the Medicare or Medicaid programs. This purpose, however, does not limit the coverage of its provisions -- see Sections 15 and 16 below.

EMTALA is primarily but not exclusively a non-discrimination statute. One would cover most of its purpose and effect by characterizing it as providing that no patient who presents with an emergency medical condition and who is unable to pay may be treated differently than patients who are covered by health insurance. That is not the entire scope of EMTALA, however; it imposes affirmative obligations which go beyond non-discrimination. See Section 16 below.

Edited May 5, 2007 by fxm88

[popshirt]

I was planning to have some dental work done at the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital Dental Clinic.

As a result of this incident, and until it is fully explained by the hospital authorities, I will NOT use the hospital services again.

[Jomtien]

Just terrible,

Feel very sorry for friends & family.

The most disturbing fact is that the BPH almost solely caters towards foreigners. To refuse one makes me feel sick, and do hope this will not be the end of the story.

For what other reason we have 3rd party insurance for cars........

Peter

[Phil Conners]

This practice of "patient dumping" was only outlawed in the United States in 1986. Therefore Thailand is currently only 20 years behind the times.

Lets keep this on topic, this is not about how things were in the USA 20 years ago but how Pattaya is today.

Pattaya is (or at least wants to be) a tourist resort, and as such it must be expected that tourists will be around. Yes we should all always have all our ID with us - but we also know that when you are on holiday you are sometimes in shorts and tshirt and forget to bring the paper - or perhaps you just want to pass the road to go to a 7-11 and get a coke or whatever. Whatever the reason, there are NO excuse for any hospital here not to offer immediate first aid to stabilize any accident victim. I hope this doesn't stop here but is brought to the top and have the greed here replace with a little compassion for a change.

Disgraceful!

Edited May 5, 2007 by Phil Conners

[expatgaz]

Very sad news indeed.

I posted abt this same Hospital a few months back.My Boy stayed in overnight and they wanted over 20k for the night.After my Wife spoke with them and informed them of the price for an overnight in Soi 4 they suddenly said they'd made a mistake and it should be 13k.The Hospital is a total rip off.Worse thing is my wife who's pregnant again can't see it and still uses them.

Me I'd never go there.Soi 4 is my choice.

[R123]

This is an absolute disgrace and I too add my sincerest condolences.

If a public protest is being held the date, time, and place of it ought to be publicised and also details given here well in advance.

Can we also have a spokesperson from Bangkok Pattaya to give their side, if they have one?

And the likes of the Pattaya Mail, Pattaya City News etc etc as well as the Bangkok Post and Nation and all TV stations and other media outlets really ought to give this matter priority reporting and investigation.

Edited May 5, 2007 by R123

[astral]

1. I do not see any sign of the helmet he should have been wearig

2. Accident victims are normally taken to the public hospital in Naklua, where more serious injuries are referred to the provincial hospital in Chonburi

3. He would never have been turned away from a private hospital in the US because he could not pay the bill.

[torngseea]

I hope this doesn't stop here but is brought to the top and have the greed here replace with a little compassion for a change.

Don't hold your breath, not much compassion for anybody in 'Fun City'. Saw a Thai guy in a 4x4 kill two people on a motorbike. He casually smoked a cigarette while talking to the police. His only emotion was annoyance for the inconvenience to his time. Difficult to take that kind of thing.

Mr. Matt was my son's teacher, seemed like a nice guy. Very sad.

[farangfool]

I just mailed the hospital to delete my name from their customer database indicating the reason and adding that they are disgrace for the whole profession. Boycott is the only answer to such people. You simply can't trust them when you need them most.

[hm1973]

Hi Guys,

Although I did not originally report on this case, I find it totally disgusting and I will definetly give TV coverage to any demonstration that is planned. Please keep me informed and I would apreciate an email with the time and date if you decide to protest.

My condolences to friends and family members of the deceased.

Howard Miller

Pattaya City News

[NanLaew]

Hi Guys,

Although I did not originally report on this case, I find it totally disgusting and I will definetly give TV coverage to any demonstration that is planned. Please keep me informed and I would apreciate an email with the time and date if you decide to protest.

My condolences to friends and family members of the deceased.

Howard Miller

Pattaya City News

OK Howard. We are going to hold your feet to the fire on this one. Nobody is going to tell you how to do your job but I reckon a statement from BPH is long overdue. Good luck mate, I think you will need it on this mission.

[NanLaew]

1. I do not see any sign of the helmet he should have been wearig

Do you really think that the plastic salad bowl that the authorities have deemed acceptable head protection would still be in place after getting side-swiped by a sip-lor and/or attendance by the sawang boriboon team? maybe you agree that he should have been ticketed for lack of helmet before being taken to hospital?

2. Accident victims are normally taken to the public hospital in Naklua, where more serious injuries are referred to the provincial hospital in Chonburi

And by all accounts in this thread, there is no normal procedure for accident victims with regard to what establishment has first right-of-refusal of the victim. Have you had your coffee yet or did you just jump in at the end of the thread?

3. He would never have been turned away from a private hospital in the US because he could not pay the bill.

No, but he would have bled to death in the admissions area while they checked with the credit reporting agencies

[DeputyDawg]

This is the BKK Pattaya Hospital Email address. [email protected]

A barage of emails may make them think if they see that this could affect their reputation and therefore their income.

Let us all email them insisting on the following:

1) An explanation for why Matt was not stabilised brefore being transported.

2) A statement that they will in future always stabilise Trauma victims before transporting them and that will be future hospital policy

We need to make them understand that their paying customers will not stand for this type of treatment for farrangs or Thai's in an emergency situation.

Howard>> Organise a petition on your news program lets get everyone here involved in putting pressure on all private hospitals to have a trauma policy in place. They are commercial entrerprises so let us make them understand that this type of action is not acceptable for any one and threaten them where it hurts, their wallets.

I have been using them for the past 7 years and have emailed two doctors directly that have treated my family asking them also to help if they want continued custom.

Emailing the doctors directly might help if you have any direct contact as they will be the ones to loose out if you stop going for treatment.

Matt was my son's teacher also it is a great shame that he died because of lack of care.

[CTM]

This practice of "patient dumping" was only outlawed in the United States in 1986. Therefore Thailand is currently only 20 years behind the times.

Lets keep this on topic, this is not about how things were in the USA 20 years ago but how Pattaya is today.

Pattaya is (or at least wants to be) a tourist resort, and as such it must be expected that tourists will be around. Yes we should all always have all our ID with us - but we also know that when you are on holiday you are sometimes in shorts and tshirt and forget to bring the paper - or perhaps you just want to pass the road to go to a 7-11 and get a coke or whatever. Whatever the reason, there are NO excuse for any hospital here not to offer immediate first aid to stabilize any accident victim. I hope this doesn't stop here but is brought to the top and have the greed here replace with a little compassion for a change.

Disgraceful!

Maybe his ID was knocked out of his pocket and laying on the road. Getting hit by a truck could do it. He looks to be wearing running shorts so it would be easy for items to fall out. Maybe his ID was under the seat of his motorbike or something since his shorts don't appear to have secure pockets. Maybe no one at the accident scene thought to pick it up in the rush to get him to a hospital.

I am surprised the cynics around here haven’t accused a Thai of stealing his wallet yet.

[CHdiver]

I just mailed the hospital to delete my name from their customer database indicating the reason and adding that they are disgrace for the whole profession. Boycott is the only answer to such people. You simply can't trust them when you need them most.

Well done farangfool. I will do the same. I will not give them my business again. We realy should boycott this hospital. In any "developed" coutry they would have been made responsible for not giving any help. After it seems to be usual to bring injured Farangs to this hospital, I am sure they pai the rescuer for that. Would be great to see the responsible people in Bangkok Hilton, but that will not happen here.

[kopite]

disgusting and i was shocked when i read it in the local papers. makes me feel unsafe and unsure about the medical services in pattaya.

one of my friends broke his back in pattaya. bph did take him in and stabalise him, but wouldnt operate until insurance would cover it. thank god they did. but there was a nervous few hours. and a very non-compasssionate staff.

im from the uk, so cant comment the same as USA posters, but it scares the hel_l out of me

[lor]

Just sent an e-mail to the hospital expressing my disgust at their actions. But I am also disgusted with the police. Why has the driver not been apprehended yet?

Please keep me informed with any news about demonstrations etc.

Both my children are students at Best School.

Chris

[steviekes]

Just sent an e-mail to the hospital expressing my disgust at their actions. But I am also disgusted with the police. Why has the driver not been apprehended yet?

Please keep me informed with any news about demonstrations etc.

Both my children are students at Best School.

Chris

I would urge all to voice their disgust to Bangkok Pattaya Hospital. Withdraw your patronage from this money factory and hit them where it hurts.

[DeputyDawg]

Howard>> can you give this any airtime as you promised?

Let's all email them and let them understand this will affect their bottom line unless changes are made.

We can not bring Matt back but we can perhaps stop this happening again.

This is the email I have sent them, I doubt any effect on its own but many similar emails might just provoke a response.

>>>>>

I write firstly in anger and secondly in disgust, and in reference to the young American teacher who was turned away after a serious traffic accident as he did not have any ID and subsequently died.

Your establishment markets itself to the world as a center for medical care encouraging not only westerners living in Thailand but also to those wishing to travel to Thailand for treatment to use your services, however you fail to observe even the most basic of humanitarian principals that most people hold dear. (PRESERVING LIFE)

I doubt that my concerns will have any impact on your policies for western or Thai trauma patients, but I intend to ensure that this has at least some impact on your business by withdrawing my custom and that of my immediate family from your hospital until there is a public apology and a statement giving a change in policy for future trauma victims.

How can anyone in their right mind transfer a patient without medical care and without first examining and stabilizing them, you are a hospital your staff have chosen a profession that requires not only skill but also a certain moral and ethical standard.

There is a very strong feeling in the western community over this tragedy, and it has highlighted the way your hospital treats its Thai and western customers, I for one will do everything in my power to ensure that the western media and your potential client base are alerted to the policy you have in place that allowed this to happen.

A Public Apology to this mans Family and friends along with an assurance that no trauma victim Western or Thai will be moved without first being stabilized is the very least that is required.

If you wish to attract a clientele from abroad you must first embrace some of the ethical and moral standards many of us hold close.

Edited May 8, 2007 by DeputyDawg

[Phil Conners]

I've written to them as well, but I fear nobody read their mail, or at best some low-level clerk who won't show it to his superior out of fear of losing face or whatnot.... worth a try, but I think a physical demonstration or snail mail will probably have more effect

[mopenyang]

I ran across this very poignant blog posting of a Good Samaritan who was at the scene of the accident and assisted Matt and actually conversed with him. Everyone needs to read this and go back and read it again.

I have.

More than once.

http://www.tatt2dude.com/index.php?p=167

[mosquitoman]

I ran across this very poignant blog posting of a Good Samaritan who was at the scene of the accident and assisted Matt and actually conversed with him. Everyone needs to read this and go back and read it again.

I have.

More than once.

http://www.tatt2dude.com/index.php?p=167

Very poignant

MM

[monty]

Update from tatt2dude

http://www.tatt2dude.com/index.php?m=200705

[DeputyDawg]

There is nothing positive to be gained from expressing any negative opinion as to Matt’s treatment that day. The Bangkok Pattaya hospital Matt was taken to is a professionally run establishment of high standing.

I can only assume Matt was transferred to Chon Buri with good reason and that he was done so professionally and in the correct manner. It would be wrong of me to draw any other conclusion with the facts that I have to hand.

I dissagree there is the possibility to stop this happening again, that is possitive.

The fact that Matt died enroute to chonburi shows this was far from professional and correct.

I sympathise with the writer of this blog however, this must lay very heavy on his mind.

Edited May 8, 2007 by DeputyDawg

[tatt2dude]

Update from tatt2dude

http://www.tatt2dude.com/index.php?m=200705

I have done much soul searching over the weekend as to how to express an updated opinion on the blog with regard to Matt's death, I am sure that the readers of this forum will acknowledge that at this time I have taken a "vanilla" approach until such time that I am aware of full facts.

I stopped to help Matt and spoke with him whilst waiting for the Rescue service. I was assured that Matt was in good hands and was informed of the hospital name that was to be his destination. The medics spoke English and attended to Matt professionally and with compassion.

Matt was conscious when put into the rescue pick-up which was a fully equipped purpose built vehicle, not of European standard but an adequate vehicle for a short drive to a local hospital.

I do not know what happened to Matt after I left his side. What I have heard has angered me to the core and with this in mind I am sure you will all appreciate that I need to compose myself and choose my words very carefully. I need to know the facts of the matter before I can express any further opinion.

Should any of Matt's friends wish to contact me then please do so, [email protected]

I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss this matter further privately and establish exactly what happened to Matt, what I continue to hear leaves me in a state of disbelief given Matt's condition when I left him.

I cannot put into words the remorse that I feel for not staying with Matt until he received the correct treatment, if I am able to do anything to rectify this in the eyes of his friends or family then I will offer whatever information I have that they may think is relevant.

I am truely very sorry for your loss.

[hm1973]

Howard>> can you give this any airtime as you promised?

I will gladly give this some airtime, however I need something to put to my voice. I am waiting for a decision from you guys to either protest or not. If action is taken I will cover it.

Howard

[Phil Conners]

There is nothing positive to be gained from expressing any negative opinion as to Matt’s treatment that day. The Bangkok Pattaya hospital Matt was taken to is a professionally run establishment of high standing.

I can only assume Matt was transferred to Chon Buri with good reason and that he was done so professionally and in the correct manner. It would be wrong of me to draw any other conclusion with the facts that I have to hand.

The medics that attended to Matt were professional and followed procedure. Again I would not have left his side had I been in any way dis-satisfied with his treatment.

Call me a cynic but it sounds to me like they threw the good old defamation book at you ....

[Hobgoblin]

If there is a protest, I will gladly attend. This is an inexcusable waste of life - I would love nothing more than to see this get international press, and watch BPH and their brand-new, multi-million dollar building fold.

I got over 50,000 baht worth of dental work done there (and am quite pleased with it), but because of this, I will NEVER spend another cent there again. I will of course, be spreading this news like a virus to everyone I know.

BPH - Shame on you.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Hobgoblin

[nam-thip]

This sad case brings to mind an incident in Phuket some years ago when the volunteer road accident vultures took an injured person to the Memorial hospital leaving the poor soul in the back of the truck whilst they negotiated a percentage of the hospital bill, the percentage offered displeased the volunteers and off they drove to the next hospital to do the very same.

Meanwhile the injured person was in need of immediate medical attention but that was of no concern to the so-called volunteers who were only interested in the highest commission they could negotiate.

Thailand at times saddens and sickens me with what is allowed to happen and this very same practice of “percentage of bill” paid to the volunteers continues to this every day.

Can they really be classed as volunteers?

May Matt rest in peace.

[tatt2dude]

It would be wrong of me to draw any other conclusion with the facts that I have to hand.

Call me a cynic but it sounds to me like they threw the good old defamation book at you ....

I resent your remark above.

I was unaware of this forum or for that matter the facts with regard to what happened to Matt after he was taken by the rescuers so I felt unable to comment in an objective way until said facts revealed themselves. The date and time of the post I believe is still evident on the blog.

I have since spoken to some of Matt's friends and to be honest I am at this time in a state of shock as to the sequence of events that followed Matt's accident.

Parents have lost a son, friends and colleagues have lost a person who I have subsequently found out was loved and well thought of. From my own personal perspective I am trying to come to terms with the fact that I could have done more for Matt.

But hey, dont let any of that stop you from voicing your conspiracy theories on a website discussion board to get your post count up.

Grow up.