Bangkok Pattaya Hospital..Where is the Care?...

[onzestan]

[

Thanks Barry I will certaily head for Siracha for any treatment or non urgent medical needs.

Last year I had a T.A.R.P (prostate)intervention at Pyathai in Sri Racha.

I can honestly say that I am very satisfied with the treatment and aftercare, and

most importantly at 30 % of the price that was quoted at BPH.

cheers

onzestan

[uhuh]

Quote: "As we could not immediately supply enough of the type of blood that he needed, the medical team then decided to transfer him to Chonburi Hospital for further treatment and surgery, after the Chonburi Hospital confirmed that they had a large quantity of his blood group type. The patient’s medical condition dictated the urgent transfer to another hospital."

There is no conceivable situation in which a patient from BPH should be sent to Cholburi Provincial Hospital. BPH delivers much better medical care than Cholburi Provincial Hospital.

The excuse BPH is using in their statement is standard procedure for the Thai private hospitals. When they kick out a patient (because they fear he cannot pay) and know this is a death sentence they will say he needs treatmment that only the government hospital can provide. They will not say "we are afraid we might lose money so we let him die".

Sometimes the patient may be able to pay but he is still kicked out. The fear that a patient cannot pay may be unfounded. He may have insurance or he may be wealthy and the people who make the decision to kick him out may even know this. But they are just lowly administrative staff, often not very smart, never very quick and maybe they don't care about the patient anyway.

Edited May 12, 2007 by uhuh

[farangfool]

This hospital is simply shameless if not criminal. Allegedly they did not have the blood needed and therefore simply put a badly injured man on the road for a trip that would take a minimum of 45 min. This they did being fully aware of the risks involved threatening their patient's life. The hospital disposed off the case without any consideration for human life contrary to the oaths taken by the doctors involved. The hospital and doctors accepted willingly the death of their victim.

The public needs to know

- who were the four doctors attending the victim;

- who signed off on his transport;

- who is responsible on administrative side for such callous conduct.

At a minimum, these doctors and administrative personnel, involved and/or responsible need to be fired with the doctors losing their work permits. Moreover, this hospital must lose its accreditation if it has any so far.

On a different note, did that "doctor Ian", an Australian national who apparently works for the hospital and who did fadvertizing or the hospital on the Pattaya Mail TV program, have any comment? Did the Pattaya Mail cover the scandal appropriately? I think it is also important to expose the conspiracy of silence, the cover up by those who are paid by the hospital.

Publicity is one way to protect ourselves from this institution. I am concerned to end up in that place following an accident with a driver earning his tea money for the delivery of the injured prey. Being taken hostage first and then left to die by so-called doctors and money grabbing staff is a very real danger in Pattaya as far as I can see.

Maybe the BBC office in BKK should be informed on this place as the hospital promotes itsr services internationally ("doctor Ian" doing his share as well).

[barryofthailand]

[

Thanks Barry I will certaily head for Siracha for any treatment or non urgent medical needs.

Last year I had a T.A.R.P (prostate)intervention at Pyathai in Sri Racha.

I can honestly say that I am very satisfied with the treatment and aftercare, and

most importantly at 30 % of the price that was quoted at BPH.

cheers

onzestan

Their is an international mgr at Paiyathai hospital named Gav. I mey with Gav last week at the VFW meeting for American Vets of foreign wars. Anyway he will give you a tour of the hospital and their facilaties upon request. I have heard nothing but good things about this hospital, and will be heading down their within the next week or so.

They also except Bupa insurance on direct bill.

Barry

[NanLaew]

This hospital is simply shameless if not criminal. Allegedly they did not have the blood needed and therefore simply put a badly injured man on the road for a trip that would take a minimum of 45 min. This they did being fully aware of the risks involved threatening their patient's life. The hospital disposed off the case without any consideration for human life contrary to the oaths taken by the doctors involved. The hospital and doctors accepted willingly the death of their victim.

The public needs to know

- who were the four doctors attending the victim;

- who signed off on his transport;

- who is responsible on administrative side for such callous conduct.

At a minimum, these doctors and administrative personnel, involved and/or responsible need to be fired with the doctors losing their work permits. Moreover, this hospital must lose its accreditation if it has any so far.

On a different note, did that "doctor Ian", an Australian national who apparently works for the hospital and who did fadvertizing or the hospital on the Pattaya Mail TV program, have any comment? Did the Pattaya Mail cover the scandal appropriately? I think it is also important to expose the conspiracy of silence, the cover up by those who are paid by the hospital.

Publicity is one way to protect ourselves from this institution. I am concerned to end up in that place following an accident with a driver earning his tea money for the delivery of the injured prey. Being taken hostage first and then left to die by so-called doctors and money grabbing staff is a very real danger in Pattaya as far as I can see.

Maybe the BBC office in BKK should be informed on this place as the hospital promotes itsr services internationally ("doctor Ian" doing his share as well).

This thread has lost all sense of reality. Talking of firing staff and revoking permits like some hospital administrator in a television drama.

I guess you must be watching all those US medical dramas on television and are all armchair ER specialists and paramedics? The same bunch of losers who became instant conspiracy theorists and armchair detectives when those two Russian women were gunned down on Jomtien. That must be due to a surfeit of the US crime and forensic shows in your television diet. You must have really exciting lives watching cable and satellite television and when that bores you, log on to TV and pass expert advice and judgement. Some chose to flame the only farang who appears to have had contact with the victim immediately after the accident and contributed 'eye-witness' news to this thread, while others pointed out that maybe he didn't have his helmet on. However, several have embraced as gospel the totally unconfirmed story from 'friends' that he was shipped to Cholburi in a pickup truck.

The ones that really impress me are those that have written or emailed the BPH to have their names removed, etc. Wow! That is really, really big of you. You all claim to be personally, deeply upset and several continue to espouse threats that border on the libelous even after the long-awaited 'official' response from the BPH. By the way, has anyone verified that it is an official response? However, you hide behind your screen names and send emails and letters to an anonymous email address that is probably checked by an administrator rather than speak with a lawyer, a doctor or other qualified people. I hope you feel you have done enough and feel safer the next time a speeding truck heads your way, or you chose to run a red light or drive drunk.

Quoting some 'constitution' from a nameless medical establishment, now what was that all about? The BPH claims that it took immediate steps to stabilize the victim. They never claimed to be unable to do any surgery or ER treatment but did not have adequate stocks of the correct blood type. Somehow you think that it is quicker to ship units of blood from Cholburi to Pattaya on the same congested highway? How many are familiar with the quantity of blood needed to stabilize a body after major trauma and during surgery? I don't know either but I doubt that a few units sent from Cholburi would have made any difference in a case where (I surmise) there was massive internal injury and bleeding.

I hope that the meeting that the Pattaya Expats Club is arranging with all parties involved goes a long way to answering the important questions that will prevent another tragedy. In the meantime, we all chose to invest, live, work, retire in Thailand. Some will chose to die here but there are no guarantees that this will always be peacefully. It makes sense to ensure that you have emergency contact information and ID on your person at all times, a copy under the seat of the motorbike or in the glovebox of the car. You should also carry your partners information. Anyone got their living will posted with an attorney or granted someone power of attorney? This is still a 3rd world country in many, many aspects and you will always be a foreigner in a foreign land.

[kopite]

R.I.P Matt

Justice

[larvidchr]

Somehow you think that it is quicker to ship units of blood from Cholburi to Pattaya on the same congested highway? How many are familiar with the quantity of blood needed to stabilize a body after major trauma and during surgery? I don't know either but I doubt that a few units sent from Cholburi would have made any difference in a case where (I surmise) there was massive internal injury and bleeding.

Come come now, there would have been plenty of room to store enough blood on a couple of Policemotorbikes/motorbike taxis, and they could have done the journey in less than half the time of an ambulance. And if needed could have done the trip again.

It just cant be argued, that transporting the patient was safer and quicker, than transporting the needed blood.

If the statement from BHP is correct, it was a big blunder on their part

Regards.

[Tammi]

Quoting some 'constitution' from a nameless medical establishment, now what was that all about?

To further develop the relationship between patients and professional healthcare providers based on understanding and trust, the Medical, Nursing, Pharmacy and Dentistry councils have jointly endorsed the following patient rights:

Do you understand now? These councils have endorsed the Patients' Bill of Rights and it must surely apply to all hospitals and clinics throughout Thailand.

[Mobi]

This thread has lost all sense of reality.

With the greatest respect, I would suggest that it is you, not the majority of posters who have lost all sense of reality.

You are trying to defend the indefensible, and sneer and belittle those who seek to make a stand on this issue, and get some justice.

Yes, this is a 3rd world country, but you would never know it were you to enter the unbelievably lavish and luxuriously fitted out new wing of the Bangkok Pattaya, that 'home away from home' that sends critically injured patients on a night mare journey to nowhere.

And I wonder, BTW, where all the money came from for that little expansion..?

[icecubes]

Shame on you Nan Laew for that outburst.

You would not have said a word If it was your Family or friends.

[purplehayes19]

My name is Steve Hayes. Matt was my cousin. Thank you all for your kind words and for your search for the truth. Thank you tatt2dude for helping Matt. Please know that you did what you thought at the time was best, and it would be/is unthinkable that what happened to him actually did. I am at a loss right now, but would like to do what I can here in the states. Thanks again.

[NanLaew]

Quoting some 'constitution' from a nameless medical establishment, now what was that all about?

The following is "Patient's Bill of Rights" which is included in the "bedside" information at the hospital I use. I think that it probably applies to all hospitals in Thailand.

To further develop the relationship between patients and professional healthcare providers based on understanding and trust, the Medical, Nursing, Pharmacy and Dentistry councils have jointly endorsed the following patient rights:

Do you understand now? These councils have endorsed the Patients' Bill of Rights and it must surely apply to all hospitals and clinics throughout Thailand.

And very noble it all sounds too. However, your comments 'probably applies' and 'must surely apply' in both your posts relating to this comprehensive "Bill of Rights" is exactly my point. We assume that because similar statements by similar bodies in the west actually mean something, then by adopting and endorsing a similar statement in Thailand, then all relevant Thai establishments are bound by them. This is a dangerous assumption.

[NanLaew]

This thread has lost all sense of reality.

With the greatest respect, I would suggest that it is you, not the majority of posters who have lost all sense of reality.

You are trying to defend the indefensible, and sneer and belittle those who seek to make a stand on this issue, and get some justice.

Yes, this is a 3rd world country, but you would never know it were you to enter the unbelievably lavish and luxuriously fitted out new wing of the Bangkok Pattaya, that 'home away from home' that sends critically injured patients on a night mare journey to nowhere.

And I wonder, BTW, where all the money came from for that little expansion..?

Respectfully, I am still in touch and eagerly awaiting the 'official' statements that are promised for later today.

Where did I say ever say I was defending BPH?

Sending emails and writing letters and telling your buddies about it and getting an electronic 'pat on the back' (or should that be 'an endorsement') from fellow forum members for asking the offending establishment to remove your name is making a stand? Lawyers get justice done, not nameless people on forums.

You are exactly right in pointing out that the foyer of the new wing at BPH is lavish and luxurious. It is what you would expect to see somewhere in the west maybe? Once again, it is our mistake to assume that such ostentation means 5-star medical treatment here.

[NanLaew]

Somehow you think that it is quicker to ship units of blood from Cholburi to Pattaya on the same congested highway? How many are familiar with the quantity of blood needed to stabilize a body after major trauma and during surgery? I don't know either but I doubt that a few units sent from Cholburi would have made any difference in a case where (I surmise) there was massive internal injury and bleeding.

Come come now, there would have been plenty of room to store enough blood on a couple of Policemotorbikes/motorbike taxis, and they could have done the journey in less than half the time of an ambulance. And if needed could have done the trip again.

It just cant be argued, that transporting the patient was safer and quicker, than transporting the needed blood.

If the statement from BHP is correct, it was a big blunder on their part

Regards.

Yes, I have seen that scene on (insert television medical drama here) where police escorts with sirens and lights get the goods delivered.

By the way, have you noticed how the sirens and strobes on Thai ER vehicles are quieter than the modified exhaust on the crotch-rocket that refuses to give way?

[NanLaew]

Shame on you Nan Laew for that outburst.

You would not have said a word If it was your Family or friends.

No shame here but you can rest assured that if it was my family and/or friends and there was evidence of malpractice and more than just heresay and inference, I wouldn't be beating my gums here on the internet.

[Mobi]

Respectfully, I am still in touch and eagerly awaiting the 'official' statements that are promised for later today.

Where did I say ever say I was defending BPH?

Sending emails and writing letters and telling your buddies about it and getting an electronic 'pat on the back' (or should that be 'an endorsement') from fellow forum members for asking the offending establishment to remove your name is making a stand? Lawyers get justice done, not nameless people on forums.

You are exactly right in pointing out that the foyer of the new wing at BPH is lavish and luxurious. It is what you would expect to see somewhere in the west maybe? Once again, it is our mistake to assume that such ostentation means 5-star medical treatment here.

Frankly, that's rubbish.

BP care very much about what is said in forums such as this. and at one time had representatives that even tried to refute what what said on line. They have long since given up that approach.

Nothing bothers them more than loss of business, (they will go to any lengths to retain it - I know this from personal experience), and criticism of their establishment. either by word of mouth or on in on line forums.

Even if it didn't bother them, does that mean that we should not be discussing these things on line in our customary 'nameless ' fashion. I'm sorry, but I just don't your point,.. If you are so much against this discussion, (which has included practical ideas, like boycotting the hospital), why are you contributing - also namelessly?

And I would imagine that legal action would be the last thing that would worry them as with their big pockets they can employ the best lawyers , and would be able to subvert any law or court decision in their favour.

The main point about the lavish fit out is not that is suggests a first class hospital, but that it begs the question where the money came from to pay for it all.

Yes, it certainly isn't a 'first world' place, as is evidenced by this terrible tragedy, but even the farang employees of BP will try to convince you that it is, and defend it's reputation ferociously.

B Pattaya carries a whole load of influence and big clout, and one of the few places where the truth can be aired is in forums such as these.

[Dakhar]

I was in a similar situation like this, luckily the EMS guys don't hold an injured person for ransom.... other wise I would be dead.

I had massive head trauma, and I was concious the entire time.

But the EMS guys were discussing where to bring me. They said, well geographically we should bring him to hospital X, but they then will just cart him a way to hospital Y because those are the guys that have the ability to treat such cases...... So I was packed away in the waiting Black Hawk, flown out to hospital Y where I was put back together. My Thai girlfriend & now wife also rode in the copter with me. She was OK but the EMS crew packed her in anyways. The ER did a full body MRI on her. Even though she was a foreing student and had no insurance she still recieved care. As the carted me through the halls I was telling everyone within ear shot that I have insurance. Latter a hospital administrator came to me and said to me, "I understand you told our staff you had insurance, & I want to know who asked you if you had insurance?" I said, "No one has asked me, I had just volunteered that inofomation." She responded, "It would not of mattered if you did or did not, we do not work that way at this hospital." I believe it too. Latter, my wife gave birth at that same hospital.... the hospital that saved my life, and latter brought my son's life into this world.

When you need a spark plug to repair a car, do you send the car to the store? My point is, you do not move a patient, you keep them as stable as possible. You get the blood ASAP. And I think the hospital stuck IT in the crack this time. Don't you think they should have a stock record on blood supllies. It is going to be pretty easy to find out how much blood they had on hand. There were other hospitals to draw blood upon from too?!

My opinion is, after the CT/MRI was done, they knew there was going to be a lot of surgery ahead of them, and no one wanted to be tied up with a fellow with questionable pay back ability. The man apparently had a punctured lung (deadly) and the broken (deadly) hip can also cause a lot of bleeding.

Some Head trauma, the extent we do not know, but if there was a slow bleed within the head, or a hematoma, either case it could be fatal.

The poor fellow had a really bad prognossis. The helmet allowed him to live longer.....

To the guys brother, seriously a tear fell as I read your letter. I can not imagine the level of pain and emotions that were flowing through as you wrote about your brother. If you want my advice, from a person that works within the medical area in Thailand, investigate the kick back programs that these hospitals have. Figure out the financial relationships that they have between each other. I think that is where you will find the root of the problem.

To those that say bring your ID. I would venture that he did, but when you get hit by such a force all laws of physics start to go crazy. I have been hit by a small bull and lost my shoes. That is just a bull, imagine a 10 wheeled truck?

Any how, RIP and take care

[Tammi]

Quoting some 'constitution' from a nameless medical establishment, now what was that all about?

The following is "Patient's Bill of Rights" which is included in the "bedside" information at the hospital I use. I think that it probably applies to all hospitals in Thailand.

To further develop the relationship between patients and professional healthcare providers based on understanding and trust, the Medical, Nursing, Pharmacy and Dentistry councils have jointly endorsed the following patient rights:

Do you understand now? These councils have endorsed the Patients' Bill of Rights and it must surely apply to all hospitals and clinics throughout Thailand.

And very noble it all sounds too. However, your comments 'probably applies' and 'must surely apply' in both your posts relating to this comprehensive "Bill of Rights" is exactly my point. We assume that because similar statements by similar bodies in the west actually mean something, then by adopting and endorsing a similar statement in Thailand, then all relevant Thai establishments are bound by them. This is a dangerous assumption.

Please don't demean The Patient's Bill of Rights. It is noble. Man has always found it necessary to make noble statements in an effort to inspire fellow human beings to do what is right. The Patients Bill of Rights will be heeded by all good, right thinking, medical personnel and their administrations. Of course it is dangerous to assume that everyone will be inspired and conduct themselves and their business according to a set of principles - human failings such as greed get in the way. And this applies to every country in the world. And I am in no way inferring that BHP is greedy.

Someone at BHP had to make a judgement call and that was to send Matt to Chonburi Hospital so that he could receive necesary blood and surgery. Many on this forum are saying that it would have been better for Matt if the blood had been sent from Chonburi Hospital to BHP where Matt would have stayed in ICU with the medical personnel familiar with his case and also the facilities for surgery, etc.

We shall probably never know the full circumstances of Matt's case unless the family get the files and scans, etc. and want to share the information.

In future when I come across the scene of an accident in which a farang is involved I will stop and stay with the injured person until I feel sure that the Emergency Service and the hospital have done their duty as in the Patients Bill of Rights. Obviously, if I am first on the scene where a Thai is injured I will stay with the Thai until the Thai emergency services and police take over. I cannot go as far as to say I will definitely not use BHP ever again.

[R123]

Many of us reacted with outrage about this case.

The initial report was that the deceased was in effect refused treatment for financial reasons and sent elsewhere wrongly.

BP have now made a statement saying he was properly treated etc and sent elsewhere for what they claim to be justifiable reasons and nothing to do with money(see their statement in an earlier post).

So where and what is the truth?

Appears the initial complaint was based on hearsay(ie what others were told)

Nevertheless the reasoning and excuses by BP may appear to some to be feeble and coming far too late, and just too good to be true.

What we need is an independent investigation like thru a newspaper that is not in the pocket of interested parties to discover the truth; but as we all know in this town that is highly unlikely.

[buriramboy]

if anyone believes what the spokes people at B/P hospital say that is up to you, but IMO everything they utter is to be taken with a pinch of salt. You only have to read this thread and past ones on this forum and other forums to get the real picture about this hospital. Thousands of people can't all be wrong.

[larvidchr]

Somehow you think that it is quicker to ship units of blood from Cholburi to Pattaya on the same congested highway? How many are familiar with the quantity of blood needed to stabilize a body after major trauma and during surgery? I don't know either but I doubt that a few units sent from Cholburi would have made any difference in a case where (I surmise) there was massive internal injury and bleeding.

Come come now, there would have been plenty of room to store enough blood on a couple of Policemotorbikes/motorbike taxis, and they could have done the journey in less than half the time of an ambulance. And if needed could have done the trip again.

It just cant be argued, that transporting the patient was safer and quicker, than transporting the needed blood.

If the statement from BHP is correct, it was a big blunder on their part

Regards.

Yes, I have seen that scene on (insert television medical drama here) where police escorts with sirens and lights get the goods delivered.

By the way, have you noticed how the sirens and strobes on Thai ER vehicles are quieter than the modified exhaust on the crotch-rocket that refuses to give way?

Well im speechless, i expected a serious answer, "crotch-rockets and medical dramas on tv"

I rest my case.

[Tammi]

By the way, have you noticed how the sirens and strobes on Thai ER vehicles are quieter than the modified exhaust on the crotch-rocket that refuses to give way?

I've been upfront in BHP ambulances a couple of times and was impressed both with the ambulance driver and other motorists who gave way very nicely. Sirens seemed to be OK to me.

[britmaveric]

Unfortunately this happens everywhere when proof of insurance is in question. Shipped off elsewhere.

[NanLaew]

Somehow you think that it is quicker to ship units of blood from Cholburi to Pattaya on the same congested highway? How many are familiar with the quantity of blood needed to stabilize a body after major trauma and during surgery? I don't know either but I doubt that a few units sent from Cholburi would have made any difference in a case where (I surmise) there was massive internal injury and bleeding.

Come come now, there would have been plenty of room to store enough blood on a couple of Policemotorbikes/motorbike taxis, and they could have done the journey in less than half the time of an ambulance. And if needed could have done the trip again.

It just cant be argued, that transporting the patient was safer and quicker, than transporting the needed blood.

If the statement from BHP is correct, it was a big blunder on their part

Regards.

Yes, I have seen that scene on (insert television medical drama here) where police escorts with sirens and lights get the goods delivered.

By the way, have you noticed how the sirens and strobes on Thai ER vehicles are quieter than the modified exhaust on the crotch-rocket that refuses to give way?

Well im speechless, i expected a serious answer, "crotch-rockets and medical dramas on tv"

I rest my case.

You received a serious response to your vision of police motorbike/motorcycle taxis traveling at high speed to bring blood from Cholburi for some injured farang in a Pattaya hospital. Stuff of Hollywood so glad you are resting your case.

[farangfool]

I think NanLaew's repeated remarks show that he is not at all interested in the matter but simply tries to hijack the discussing, pleasing his own ego. It seems that time has come to ignore him.

Back to the issue at hand:

The hospital has admitted that it was perfectly aware about the amount of blood needed and about its availability. Consequently, it also full knowledge about what was needed and the danger to the victim's life.

So any kind of future disclaimers are out of question. These people acted with intent and callous. They have blood on their hands.

Sadly, we have no assurance from the hospital that it acted differently in the past nor that it would act differently in the future. This is nothing than an outspoken threat to the health and life of any foreigner in pattaya. The hospital willingly accepts the loss of human life for its own profit.

Also, we still do not know whether the hospital purposely attracts patients by paying the drivers.

I searched the webpages of the local papers. They appear to ignore the issue perhaps trying to put it to rest. Apparently this forum is the only news outlet that puts forward the questions that need to be asked. Could someone post the papers' coverage if there is any? If there is none, information on fresh BPH advertizing would be interesting to know about.

In the recent past, European TV stations broadcasted some programs about injured tourists in Turkey ending up in sub-standard hospitals and receiving at least questionable treatment. Many ended up with permanent damages to their health. I mention this to show that there is an interest in western mass media in such issues. After all, thanks to the BPH a 2 week holiday in Pattaya might turn into a trip of no return. Maybe we could alert BBC Bangkok or the SEA correspondents of the major European TV networks.

Given the apparent local news blackout this might be our only chance to bring about much needed change and protect our health and lives in the future.

[Dakhar]

The AMA would be pleased as punch to see this type of news broad casted. The need to do their best to justify their un holly fees.

I am surprised the AMA has not chartered a 747 full of cameras and reporters regarding this case. One of the trends in the US is insurance co. are now booking medical services with over seas hospitals like Bumungrad, in order to save money on procedures.

I am sure the AMA is disgusted by this, and would love to have this horrid misshap broadcastes world wide, in order to help their agenda.

[ErikD]

Bravo Mobi D'Ark! I totally agree with what you have said here. BHP are very much bothered by this loss of faith and revenue and the outrage this incident has caused or else they would not have released their statement trying to vindicate their actions. Also their reaction to the front page of the Pattaya People report in this week's edition of Pattaya People shows that they are very much bothered by the criticism this case has caused them.

We need to continue the pressure on them until the real truth about Matt and his treatment and the unanswered questions are forth coming. This whole issue needs to be discussed and the media coverage needs to continue.

I also believe that boycotting this hospital, even if it does have little effect on their bottom line, as a gesture it is worth doing; it is the principal.

As many people have said in this forum and the main question is in the title 'Where is the Care" at Bangkok Hospital Pattaya? Their excuses for moving Matt in a critical condition are feeble to say the very least and I am surprised they could not come up with anything better that this incredible statement which is just too ridiculous for a professional international hospital with a reputation such as this hospital.

I was at the expat club meeting today and I was disappointed that there wasn't a representative from Bangkok hospital Pattaya present to answer questions about this incident. Their statement does not really clarify things it just raises more questions about their conduct and treatment of Matt Hayes. Friends of Matt's spoke very well about this incident and I firmly believe the questions and concerns raised by them and Matt's family via them are fair and valid and deserve to be answered fully and truthfully.

The standards here in Thailand are not what we would expect at home in Europe or the US but I think that we should be able to expect basic care especially in a crisis or emergency situation and especially from an international hospital which advertises everywhere it's emergency services and quote "excellent care, anytime, anyplace, anywhere".

[Chopper]

As many people have said in this forum and the main question is in the title 'Where is the Care" at Bangkok Hospital Pattaya? Their excuses for moving Matt in a critical condition are feeble to say the very least and I am surprised they could not come up with anything better that this incredible statement which is just too ridiculous for a professional international hospital with a reputation such as this hospital.

A wise man said to me: a major trauma hospital without units of blood in stock is like a pub without beer.

I was at the expat club meeting today and I was disappointed that there wasn't a representative from Bangkok hospital Pattaya present to answer questions about this incident. Their statement does not really clarify things it just raises more questions about their conduct and treatment of Matt Hayes. Friends of Matt's spoke very well about this incident and I firmly believe the questions and concerns raised by them and Matt's family via them are fair and valid and deserve to be answered fully and truthfully.

I too was at the meeting yesterday. I concur with Erik that of the family's many unanswered questions their main issue is why the blood could not be ferried to BHP instead of Matt being taken to Chonburi. Let alone checking the blood stocks from the other hospitals in town.

They also raised the issue that the Police statement said that Matt was driving in the 'Truck Lane'. I have driven along the road Matt was killed on many a time and just can't seem to find the truck lane. Perhaps someone could help me out here.

Reference the poster that raised the issue about whether there is an agreement to take accident victims to BPH by Sawang Boriboon Rescue. There is as such an agreement in place between BPH and Sawang Boriboon as confirmed by the Administrator of BPH unless a hospital card is present on the victim indicating an alternative hospital in the local.

[DrFisher]

"Where does the Hippocratic Oath come into play with this distinguished medical establishment"? It doesn't as they do not take this oath in Thailand and the original oath was against Asians in general. I understand what you mean but it would be better to ask where are the medical and Buddhist ethics.

[barryofthailand]

Respectfully, I am still in touch and eagerly awaiting the 'official' statements that are promised for later today.

Where did I say ever say I was defending BPH?

Sending emails and writing letters and telling your buddies about it and getting an electronic 'pat on the back' (or should that be 'an endorsement') from fellow forum members for asking the offending establishment to remove your name is making a stand? Lawyers get justice done, not nameless people on forums.

You are exactly right in pointing out that the foyer of the new wing at BPH is lavish and luxurious. It is what you would expect to see somewhere in the west maybe? Once again, it is our mistake to assume that such ostentation means 5-star medical treatment here.

Frankly, that's rubbish.

BP care very much about what is said in forums such as this. and at one time had representatives that even tried to refute what what said on line. They have long since given up that approach.

Nothing bothers them more than loss of business, (they will go to any lengths to retain it - I know this from personal experience), and criticism of their establishment. either by word of mouth or on in on line forums.

Even if it didn't bother them, does that mean that we should not be discussing these things on line in our customary 'nameless ' fashion. I'm sorry, but I just don't your point,.. If you are so much against this discussion, (which has included practical ideas, like boycotting the hospital), why are you contributing - also namelessly?

And I would imagine that legal action would be the last thing that would worry them as with their big pockets they can employ the best lawyers , and would be able to subvert any law or court decision in their favour.

The main point about the lavish fit out is not that is suggests a first class hospital, but that it begs the question where the money came from to pay for it all.

Yes, it certainly isn't a 'first world' place, as is evidenced by this terrible tragedy, but even the farang employees of BP will try to convince you that it is, and defend it's reputation ferociously.

B Pattaya carries a whole load of influence and big clout, and one of the few places where the truth can be aired is in forums such as these.

This hospital is not concerned about losing business. The only thing they are concerned with is Baht. Most of the doctors are good doctors for treatment of common ilneses. I would not suggest thid fscility for serious ilness or surgery. they have a helaport on the roof of the new building, and Matt could have easily been stabalized and coptered to bangkok, where they have the surgeons and facilities to deal with serious Trama.

Matt was also my sons teaher.

Barry