Good Advice/tips Required

[pwllgrgn]

Hello

I am coming to live in Thailand in the next few months. I am bringing my German Shepherd with me. He will be flying with Thai Airways on the same flight as me. I am really worried about him being cooped up for 12+ hours in his crate. I have been given conflicting advise whether to crate train him or not. Has anyone got any really good tips on how to make this process as painless as possible for him. And before anyone suggests it - No I cannot leave him in the UK

Thanks

[Nienke]

Hello

I am coming to live in Thailand in the next few months. I am bringing my German Shepherd with me. He will be flying with Thai Airways on the same flight as me. I am really worried about him being cooped up for 12+ hours in his crate. I have been given conflicting advise whether to crate train him or not. Has anyone got any really good tips on how to make this process as painless as possible for him. And before anyone suggests it - No I cannot leave him in the UK

Thanks

I certainly would crate train him. A dog that never has been in a crate, might kinda freak out when enclosed in such a small area and then for such a long time.

What you can do is buy the crate and put it in your living room. Bet your dog will check it out. When he sniffs the door praise him enthousiastically and give him a delicious treat. If he put his nose in or goes all the way in, praise even more and give him a jackpot (a handful of delicious treats), preferable IN the crate with the door open. Do not close the door!

If step one went well, you can go to step two. Put the crate in such a place in your living room where the dog can have good view on, for him, important spots such as the door. If he doesn't show fear you can put his food in the back of the crate with the door open. When the dog goes in to eat the food, just praise him, do furthermore nothing but let him eat his food. You can also fill his bowl half, and refill after he has finished while praising him and putting the bowl back in the back of the crate.

In case, your dog is reluctant to go in the crate, you have to build in some more steps: food bowl in front of the crate, foodbowl inside in front of crate, foodbowl in middle of crate, foodbowl in back of crate. Build up slowly, always watching your dog as he will indicate how much he can handle.

If this step went well, you can continue with step 3: closing the door half way while he's eating. When your dog is finished he can open the door by himself.

Step 4: eating with door pushed closed, but not locked, so he will be able to push it open.

Step 5: eating while door is closed and locked. But you open the door one split second after your dog is finished. If your dog goes in easily (following his food), then you can introduce a command such as 'CRATE", while pointing with your finger.

Step 6: Give command "CRATE", dog goes in and give him his food. Close and lock the door. When he is finished, you wait a few seconds before opening the door, while praising him for being quiet.

Step 7: Build this up to 30 minutes, then to one hour in the crate. For example when you are watching television.

Step 8: Dog is crate for a certain amount of time and you leave the room. First only go and back, then slowly increasing the time. Always praise your dog when being quiet in the crate.

Step 9: Command your dog in the crate during other hours of the day. First only command, praise, reward, and let him out. Then, slowly build up: command, praise, leave him in for a certain time, praise again and give him his treat when letting him out.

Step 10: Have your dog crated during the night. I had a boxer that went to Holland. During the months she stayed with me before travelling, she slept in a crate. (in my bedroom with my own dogs, because of my enormous weakness for this breed )

Step 11: Take the crate with you every time you take the dog with you (preferable, often). During travel your dog is crated.

Never, use the crate as a punishment, but make it his home, that you can take with you everywhere, and in which he feels comfortable and safe.

Hope this will be of some help to you,

Nienke

Edited May 22, 2007 by Nienke

[MTW]

Everything that Nienke says is right and will help.

I would like to add, get the biggest crate possible, don't be cheap in this regard. And get some drugs from your vet which will help your dog stay calm and hopefully sleep through most of the journey.

Keep in mind that the dog will be in the crate much longer than just the flight time, as you will have to crate him when you arrive at the airport, and he will stay there until he goes through customs here. Also, many dogs lose control of their bowels a little when nervous, and airports and all that airport travel entails makes them very nervous ... and you don't want them to have to sit in that if possible.

Put things that smell like you in the crate, like a worn (not washed) t-shirt or something on the travel day, as well as some kind of toy that you know he likes, like a stuffed animal.

And the most important thing: You say you are traveling in a few months, so July or August?? Have you checked that you can take a dog at that time? Most airlines to hot countries, including Thailand, have restrictions banning dog travel for about half of the year due to heat concerns.

I brought dogs from Los Angeles and could not do it until October and only for a few months of the cold season here.

And don't stop anywhere if you can get a direct flight. A fair amount of dogs go missing like lost luggage and are found dead 3 days later. Many dogs suffer heat stroke when they are at a transit stop, and left on the tarmac for even a short amount of time, and it kills them.

And get a water bottle, not a bowl as the water will get spilled out. Test it in the crate before to make sure it can be secured, as some are no good and will not stay attached. You might want to let your dog practice drinking out of it before as I am not sure all dogs immediately figure it out. And to make sure it doesn't leak out all the water in the first 15 minutes ... most of those bottles are really crap.

And, last thing, your dog may drink more than usual due to the medication.

Good luck and happy travels.

[Jet Gorgon]

Excellent advice and info, Nienke and MTW.

I would underscore the importance of taking your dog out to noisy places in his crate before the big day.

Also, check the location of the live cargo depot at the Thai airport where you will be landing. The old BKK airport's international live cargo was way far from where the passengers transited. I remember friends having problems getting their big dog there as he had to be in the cage in the airport area and there were no dollies to wheel his crate over.

Be prepared for when you land; hopefully you'll be the first off the plane and thru immigration. Have a change of bedding, water, a treat, lead/leash; hopefully you can find a place close for pup to pee or poo if needed. Best would be if you could have a friend waiting for your dog, in case you get held up. Remember, last I heard, you could not take your pet out of the crate in the airport area. Any news on this Posters?

And what about your land transport from the airport to ? Get a dog-friendly hotel lined up, maybe.

And definitely, direct flight, NO transits.

We may sound bichy, but just some precautions. I know many folks who brought their animals over safely. Hope you will live in the jungle or near the beach to keep him cool. Good luck.

Please let us know how it all turns out.

[Nienke]

Everything that Nienke says is right and will help.

I would like to add, get the biggest crate possible, don't be cheap in this regard.

And get some drugs from your vet which will help your dog stay calm and hopefully sleep through most of the journey.

Hi,

I would like to react on both abovementioned remarks:

First: I would recommend a proper fitting crate for your GSD, not the biggest one (of course depending on the size of your dog, if he's huge you preperly need the biggest one).

Anyway, if you get a crate that is too big, keep in mind that involves a lot more costs, especially when the animal is transported by cargo. Also, the dog is more protected in a good fitting one in case there is air turbulence or during transport on the ground.

With a good fitting one, I mean one where your dog can stand up and lay down comfortably. For this you'd better measures his sizes from top head (not tip of ears) to ground and nose till tail onset.

Second: I recommend AGAINST SEDATING! See following comment (copied from the pinned subject 'importing animals, page 3)

<quote I hope you are not going to give them something to make them sleep. Sedatives suppress the respiratory system of the dog and aircraft are pressurised at between two thirds and three quarters of normal atmospheric pressure, this lowers the blood pressure of both humans and animals. Sedatives generally work by lowering blood pressure so the combined effect could be detrimental to the well being of your pet. It can also cause disorientation. Several airlines will not accept your pet if they are sedated <unquote>

Besides the danger of a lower blood pressure, when an animal is sedated, it may not notice when the tongue slips back in the back of the throat, with suffocation as a result. The sedation medication can also cause disorientation, which can cause serious mental problems to the animal.

IMO, best thing you can do, is a proper crate training. Make the crate his safe haven. This safe haven you can take with you wherever you go (later on in Thailand or where ever). There are people who give Rescue Remedy (Bach Flower remedy). However, it will not work for a very long time such as 12 hours. It can, though, calm your dog down during the travel to the airport, during check-in and take-off. it does not sedate or makes the animal disorientated, just a little calmer. RR you have to start with a few days before travel (4 drops on the gums 4 times day), but how many days before travel I'm not sure (I suggest a week). Maybe somebody else on the list can recommend better on this one.

Further, it is advisable NOT to feed your dog at least 6 hours before the flight, although I usually give the last meal 8 to 10 hours before. Also don't give food in the crate. Dogs can easily go without food for 48 hours, even 36 hours. Not that they enjoy it, but they CAN do it without any health consequences.

Depending on the weather, don't let your dog drink lots of water for at least two hours before check in and provide him with a long good walk where he can release himself.

As, MTW mentioned, if you decide to put a water bottle on the crate, you need to train your dog to drink from it. And, check before you buy it that it doesn't leak!

Didn't mentioned it before, but welcome to Thailand! Hope you will enjoy it as much as most of us do

Nienke

[Nienke]

Excellent advice and info, Nienke and MTW.

I would underscore the importance of taking your dog out to noisy places in his crate before the big day.

Also, check the location of the live cargo depot at the Thai airport where you will be landing. The old BKK airport's international live cargo was way far from where the passengers transited. I remember friends having problems getting their big dog there as he had to be in the cage in the airport area and there were no dollies to wheel his crate over. Again see for the new airport details the pinned subject

Be prepared for when you land; hopefully you'll be the first off the plane and thru immigration. Have a change of bedding, water, a treat, lead/leash; hopefully you can find a place close for pup to pee or poo if needed. Best would be if you could have a friend waiting for your dog, in case you get held up. Remember, last I heard, you could not take your pet out of the crate in the airport area. Any news on this Posters?In Chiang Mai, at least, I can confirm this. Also, do not feed your dog till at least you have reached your destination and have relaxed there for about 6 hours. Water you can give, but in moderate amounts. Not a whole bucket, as a customer made that mistake with her Great Dane, who then died of bloat

And what about your land transport from the airport to ? Get a dog-friendly hotel lined up, maybe.In Bangkok, there is a Mr. Patrick, see pinned subject, and in Chiang Mai, there's ... me

And definitely, direct flight, NO transits.

We may sound bichy, but just some precautions. I know many folks who brought their animals over safely. Absolutely confirmedHope you will live in the jungle or near the beach to keep him cool. otherwise a big fish pond in the garden will do also Good luck.

Please let us know how it all turns out.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Nienke

[Nienke]

Hello

I am coming to live in Thailand in the next few months. I am bringing my German Shepherd with me. He will be flying with Thai Airways on the same flight as me. I am really worried about him being cooped up for 12+ hours in his crate. I have been given conflicting advise whether to crate train him or not. Has anyone got any really good tips on how to make this process as painless as possible for him. And before anyone suggests it - No I cannot leave him in the UK

Thanks

Hi.

Just read your former posts (in Feb.) Welcome to Chiang Mai Fabulous place!

In case you are planning to go directly to CM, then it's best when your plane arrives in BKK in the night or early morning, and the connecting flight to CM is early morning as well. In such a way your dog suffers the least from the climate differences.

A friend/customer of mine just recently had her three dogs flown over from India (all mutts), and didn't had to many problems. Customs tried to get some (tax) money out of her, but she refused. It took a little longer, but finally she paid about 200 baht a dog.

It would be easier if the dog's crated has wheels underneath it, as I mentioned before they need to remain crated untill outside of the airport building.

Nienke

[pwllgrgn]

Hello

Thanks for all the replies. I am worried sick about him travelling all the way to Thailand in a crate and wish there was an alternative to doing this. Regarding the crate I have already started making enquiries with a number of pet relocators who offer a service of making made to measure wooden crates, he is too big for the plastic ready made ones. I have read somewhere that if you attach 2 water bottles, one with water and the other with ice, so that the dog always has water. Don’t know if anyone has heard of this before? I certainly will start to crate train him as soon as I have acquired one for him. How many months in advance is it advisable to do this? Does anyone know if a fan is a good idea?

I have spoken to the manager of Thai Airways cargo regarding Marco and his flight arrangements and he did not mention any restrictions on the months I could take him. I will certainly contact him again and ascertain if they have this restriction in place.

As far as I can tell I cannot get a direct flight to Chiang Mai from the UK so will have to go via Bangkok. If anyone knows differently please let me know? I think that the earliest Thai Airways connecting flight from Bangkok lands at Chiang Mai at 0855 hours. I am being met by a friend of mine and she is bringing a Thai friend of hers who’s uncle and brother are both Customs Officers. We will be renting a house for a couple of weeks which is dog friendly until we can look around Chiang Mai for a long term house rental.

I have also read on another website that a the plane cannot take off without your dog is onboard. And to check that the dog has been loaded before you board the flight. I have attached a photograph so you can see my baby.

[Nienke]

Hello

Thanks for all the replies. I am worried sick about him travelling all the way to Thailand in a crate and wish there was an alternative to doing this. Regarding the crate I have already started making enquiries with a number of pet relocators who offer a service of making made to measure wooden crates, he is too big for the plastic ready made ones. I have read somewhere that if you attach 2 water bottles, one with water and the other with ice, so that the dog always has water. Don’t know if anyone has heard of this before? I think that's a good idea. For training him to drink from the water bottle you can put some cream cheese on the end (mouth part), that he can lick of I certainly will start to crate train him as soon as I have acquired one for him. How many months in advance is it advisable to do this? As soon as possible. How fast it goes depends on your dog. If you can borrow a bench from somebody you can already start. If you can't borrow, than a huge carton box can be used as well. Just make it a fun game for him. Does anyone know if a fan is a good idea? I don't think so. So far I know, down in the plane it's already cool.

I have spoken to the manager of Thai Airways cargo regarding Marco and his flight arrangements and he did not mention any restrictions on the months I could take him. I will certainly contact him again and ascertain if they have this restriction in place.

As far as I can tell I cannot get a direct flight to Chiang Mai from the UK so will have to go via Bangkok. So far I know, that's correct.If anyone knows differently please let me know? I think that the earliest Thai Airways connecting flight from Bangkok lands at Chiang Mai at 0855 hours. That's still ok. I am being met by a friend of mine and she is bringing a Thai friend of hers who’s uncle and brother are both Customs Officers. That's great, than you don't have to worry.We will be renting a house for a couple of weeks which is dog friendly until we can look around Chiang Mai for a long term house rental.

I have also read on another website that a the plane cannot take off without your dog is onboard. And to check that the dog has been loaded before you board the flight. When a friend took a dog to Holland, from Chiang Mai, they told her/checked at the check-in or it was at the place where your board (don't remember) in Bangkok that the dog was onboardI have attached a photograph so you can see my baby. Beautiful dog Everything should go fine. He boards where it's cool (or reasonable cool), lands in BKK in very early morning and arrives in CM still pretty early. And with your friend's friend's family there should be no problem. It most probably will speed things up! Then, you go straight to the house and put the aircon on for both yourself and the dog ... and relax

Nienke

[Jet Gorgon]

Excellent advice, Nienke.

I agree about no fan; crikes, it's like Siberia in cargo. Lots of blankets?

[Nienke]

Excellent advice, Nienke.

I agree about no fan; crikes, it's like Siberia in cargo. Lots of blankets?

I don't think it's that cold upthere in the cargo. So far as I've been told, when animals are kept the temperature is adapted to them. I would imagine so, because they can't have it -50 degrees celcius, or the animals will freeze to death. All dogs that I've known and traveled by air had a mat or thin blanket to lie on, ot more than that. If you would put a jacket on the animal, chances are that it gets overheated fast once on the ground. So better to have only a non-slipping bed on the floor of the crate, and those two drinking bottles.

Nienke

P.S. As for Marco, I assume he still has quite some undercoat. That for sure will come off in CM. So, grooming grooming grooming loads of grooming. But NOT shaving!

[jonotes]

We are moving to Bangkok in one month and are planning on bringing our dog Una. I appreciate all the info I,ve gotten on this site. We are a little worried about the 16 hour flight from NY. Has anyone had any experience with this flight. Also, when we do get there does anyone have info as to where we can take Una to run and get some exercise. We have rented a house with a yard but it's not that big. Are there places outside of Bangkok where you can take a dog for a nice walk? Would appreciate any replies.