Elderly Dane Found Murdered In His Home

[Locturian]

The funny thing is, that in Denmark little coverage has been made. It's currently running in some online editions of the newspapers, but is it gonna make tv? Hardly. But again, foreigners (also Danes) are killed or self-killed, on a relugar basis in Thailand, so i guess it's not really "news" and won't make a good headline.

On another note, the Danish newspapers won't give out his name, or show his picture, at this time, as they are in the process of informing the family. It took my less than 2 minutes af i read the initial artikel from the Danish newspaper, to find all about it, and also the pictures.

Anyways, you guys are really quick to jum to conclusions. Ok, yes, he was hit in the head. He had a fight, prolly with the ex-wife. But did the blow kill him? Did he fall as a direct result of that hit? I don't know. You don't know - That's what they are finding out now. Maybe he was hit, walking around dissy and slipped in some water. In that case, is it murder? Let the police to their work and try to solve this to the best of their thai-abilities

Best regards and rest in peace.

Edited May 27, 2007 by Locturian

[thaiexp]

[The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.]

Says who? Was the reporter watching the whole saga? is that what she said? Isn't it amazing how much importance is placed on what people say in this country? Despite the fact that the culture demands that people must lie to save face at all costs!

Lets hope justice is served and the guilty gets what they deserve.

What a shame!

PS. Old falangs beware, she doesn't love you for your gumsy smile, wrinkly features but your "good heart" (who said money?)will go a long way. However, once your good heart (erm..lets just call it money and be done with it) balconies can become very dangerous. Just remember the 11th commandment. "Thou shall not get involved with bar girls" and don’t forget the 12th commandment "I told you before......Thou shall not get involved with bar girls" and then after you get shafted by a bar girl see the 13th commandment " what part of the sentence...."Thou shall not get involved with bar girls"...did you not understand?

Edited May 27, 2007 by thaiexp

[euroflash]

Saddening that there's no local or national coverage of this news.

Getting reports only from the other side of the world about news in Thailand's second largest city, Chiang Mai, is frustrating.

Thai Rath ran the story yesterday, on their web site at least.

[byeth]

but part of the problem is that in europe we had the opportunity to see (and especially learn from) what racism can bring and also from the mentality 'the stronger gets his way'. apparently in this part of the world they do not share the same thinking. it seems to me that thai society is based on the value of power and not so much of equality

[PuaSai]

but part of the problem is that in europe we had the opportunity to see (and especially learn from) what racism can bring and also from the mentality 'the stronger gets his way'. apparently in this part of the world they do not share the same thinking. it seems to me that thai society is based on the value of power and not so much of equality

Racism exists everywhere even though people may have learned from it in their respective country. It is unfortunate. Society everywhere is "based on the value of power" but shows its ugly head in hidden or different forms. You have your rich and poor. You have core values of your country that makes it 'civilized'. Yet, people still suffer from the corrupt elected officials and the criminals that exist everywhere. Politicians in the States are suppose to be public servants for the people, yet they live in Mansions, high price condos and live among the rich, not the poor or the people in need that they are suppose to be helping as well. There is no equality anywhere...

Edited May 27, 2007 by PuaSai

[byeth]

yes, there is no equality, still, societies and the people that make them choose their basic values and in certain cases equality - and respect I should add - is high on the list in other cases it is low

[cmsally]

It was on the front page of Thai Rath, I think it was yesterday. Tragic indeed, a reminder to us all there are some nasty people out there.

[Guts]

***But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.***

If you hit somebody with a stick and they hit the floor and die it is murder. What part of this is unclear?

What if the old man attacked her first? and she acted out of self defence? She hit the man with the stick, he slipped and fell on his head and died?

Who of us was really there? Amazing what kind of conclusion some of you can make without knowing the real story...

Whatever the story, condolances to his family!

[Steely Dan]

but part of the problem is that in europe we had the opportunity to see (and especially learn from) what racism can bring and also from the mentality 'the stronger gets his way'. apparently in this part of the world they do not share the same thinking. it seems to me that thai society is based on the value of power and not so much of equality

That's it in a nutshell, what happened in the case of the recently murdered Israeli or the gang who attacked the Singaporians or countless other crimes swept under the carpet as they are not good for business? If someone set up a website called murderedinthailand.com and kept people updated as to what passes for justice here then maybe it would focus peoples minds when the tourist industry suffers.

[vultureintree]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

This is one reason why I am moving my family out of this country. This tragic incident is being handled as if it means nothing.

Also, the other day I was in my bank and a senior employee told me that he has personally seen 100 million baht in assets transferred from farangs to thai women. Those men can kiss all of it goodbye. Next to a slug, men are the most stupid beings on earth!

[PuaSai]

yes, there is no equality, still, societies and the people that make them choose their basic values and in certain cases equality - and respect I should add - is high on the list in other cases it is low

If you are quoting politcians and what they promise to do, how often after they are elected do they follow through? Hardly ever.. and that is in all Democracies. I have no doubt in Thailand that respect and equality is desired by all. It is natural for people to want this. You can't judge all of Thai society based on one news story. If so, how about the story of the minor children boys in England who beat, raped and murdered a female child? How does that reflect how the children in England are brought up? Should we judge all for an unfortunate few? I have never heard of Thai children involved in these type things.

[jaapfries]

[

I do hope that the young Scottish Man is now in prison and will remain there for a long time. I hate the bad image that some Farangs give, that sticks to the rest of us. There are an awful lot of Fat Useless Losers here, I try very hard to avoid them. You can see some of them riding about on Big Noisy ego boosting penus extending motor cycles, owning the road, intimidating normal citizens. I believe in in equality, honesty and justice. I detest corruption, inequality, injustice, the inability to deliver services as promised. What do you believe in?

John 1012: I believe what you said is "right on the money" ! I could not have phrased it better myself !

Jaap K / Pattaya

15 yrs in Thailand

[markokang]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

Yes.... "Thailand, hub of farang murders!"

I think your sentiments are that of many long term farang staying here... infuriates me too the way farang are treated by police... even worse if you are African though! Suprising how racialist this country is sometimes...

[PuaSai]

***But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.***

If you hit somebody with a stick and they hit the floor and die it is murder. What part of this is unclear?

What if the old man attacked her first? and she acted out of self defence? She hit the man with the stick, he slipped and fell on his head and died?

Who of us was really there? Amazing what kind of conclusion some of you can make without knowing the real story...

Whatever the story, condolances to his family!

You are absolutely right. That is the need for the medical investigation. How often do the news stories people read have misinformation or partial fact?

Bottom line, it is a sad story... and it happens everywhere...

[Guts]

I am a relative newcomer to Thailand, unfortunately I committed myself to invest before I realised that Farangs are sub-human, and thais are human. This seems to be the view of a considerable number those in power , at quite a few levels. I have , however met an awful lot of educated and uneducated, but not influential, thais who wonder where the country is going and why Farangs are treated in such a digusting way. It is naked, in your face, racialism . A parallel with Medieval Europe can be seen. Enough said in case I get my visa revoked. I wonder what would happen if the EU , US , Australia & New Zealand had the balls to offer reciprical treatment to Thai citizens, re property, visa's, human rights etc. It is difficult to write exactly what I think, and probably what many others think, in case I breach the new laws

I have been wondering long long time if maybe many Thai-Visa-Forum Farangs are sub-human actually. There are so many negative posts about Thailand, Thai Culture, Thai ways, Visa rules, etc. etc.

In all the years I live here, I live so happily with my Thai Family in this wonderful Thai culture. I don't feel racism at all. (I have been living in the Dutch Antilles in the Caribbean. I have never felt so much hatred and racism against white asses over there). Maybe some of you just dont fit in here.

For me it is quite easy to write what I think. Thailand is GREAT GREAT GREAT. And if you dont like it here, there are so many other nice countries you can live. Seek your opportunities there!

[PuaSai]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

Yes.... "Thailand, hub of farang murders!"

I think your sentiments are that of many long term farang staying here... infuriates me too the way farang are treated by police... even worse if you are African though! Suprising how racialist this country is sometimes...

If it is so bad a place for Farangs. why don't you who are unhappy go back home? It amazes me that you stay in such an "aweful" place! I wish I could stay in Thailand! Let me take your place! If you hang out in the bars and seedy places, that exist everywhere by the way, what do you expect? What kind of quality people do you expect to find?

[Guts]

Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

This is one reason why I am moving my family out of this country.

Do good and receive good. Do evil and receive evil. Isn't that everywhere in this world? Wish you good luck where ever you go!

[PuaSai]

I am a relative newcomer to Thailand, unfortunately I committed myself to invest before I realised that Farangs are sub-human, and thais are human. This seems to be the view of a considerable number those in power , at quite a few levels. I have , however met an awful lot of educated and uneducated, but not influential, thais who wonder where the country is going and why Farangs are treated in such a digusting way. It is naked, in your face, racialism . A parallel with Medieval Europe can be seen. Enough said in case I get my visa revoked. I wonder what would happen if the EU , US , Australia & New Zealand had the balls to offer reciprical treatment to Thai citizens, re property, visa's, human rights etc. It is difficult to write exactly what I think, and probably what many others think, in case I breach the new laws

I have been wondering long long time if maybe many Thai-Visa-Forum Farangs are sub-human actually. There are so many negative posts about Thailand, Thai Culture, Thai ways, Visa rules, etc. etc.

In all the years I live here, I live so happily with my Thai Family in this wonderful Thai culture. I don't feel racism at all. (I have been living in the Dutch Antilles in the Caribbean. I have never felt so much hatred and racism against white asses over there). Maybe some of you just dont fit in here.

For me it is quite easy to write what I think. Thailand is GREAT GREAT GREAT. And if you dont like it here, there are so many other nice countries you can live. Seek your opportunities there!

have to agree with you again wholeheartedly. Why stay in Thailand, which I love dearly, and be miserable. Go somewhere else where you will be happy!

[LaReina]

***But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.***

If you hit somebody with a stick and they hit the floor and die it is murder. What part of this is unclear?

So by corrolory...you push someone off the balcony is not murder as you did not kill them the fall did...

The medical investigation is used to determine Manner of death, i.e. Blunt Force Trauma and Cause Of Death i.e. Homicide. Not to protect her, but say she hit the man, blunt force trauma, but she did not hit him hard enough or without intent to kill him, yet when he fell THAT action caused him to die it could change how the case is prosecuted. Sure, it is still a homicide which basically means a human killing another human, but it can help or hurt her court case based on her intent. Thats based on the law in the States. I don't know if is the same in Thailand.

At the end of the day he was a senior citizen. 71 yrs of age.. heck.. he was old! and if at best, when you assault a senior citizen they can do little to defend themselves and they tend to break easily.

In some places merely assaulting a senoir gets you in the slammer for life. So this is far from a young couple fighting and one accidently killing the other.

as for living in thailand.. do any of you complainers about living in thailand think it is that easy to move and live in the US? You arrive and someone hands you a workpermit?? Give me a break..

As for racisim.. it is everywhere.. you just notice it more as you are not in your home country and you are now on the reciving (sp) end of the stick..

[highdiver]

I am so sorry for loss of a life may he rest in peace.

dont know what realy happened to the man but there are those on this forum who seem to be very quick in reponse.

unfortunatly most of those coming from other countries are used to the Media and culture that is very quick in accusing and making false charges before the facts are known.

western culture and the police and media in many countries are very quick in publicly accusing someone yet when its time to press charges and leagaly trial those accused some times they are released.

it is so easy to smear a person and then find out that they did not do what they were suspected of. it is so easy to disrepute a person.

in the western society it is very natural and acceptable to make groundless accusations and baseless judgements and only those that have lost dignity, respect, and self esteem will understand the abusive power of this nature.

The "freedom of Speach" that we all so value can not be an abusive power to destroy somones life with bogus accusations.

In thai culture publicly accusing someone is taken seriously and even the police are very cautious about throwing around public accusations. they will define some one as a susspect, but untill they have evidence that can support pressing charges they will not publicly accuse.

no one realy knows what happened there and its up to the police to try and solve this case. I find it sad that some posters are assuming postions as judge and jury and condemed the girl.

[meibanfa]

Guts wrote:

Maybe some of you just dont fit in here.

For me it is quite easy to write what I think. Thailand is GREAT GREAT GREAT. And if you dont like it here, there are so many other nice countries you can live. Seek your opportunities there!

Maybe you are right, perhaps the deceased Dane did not fit in either. Too bad he did not have the option to leave.

In reference to the defense or the girl who was fighting with the elderly man, perhaps she is not guilty, but it seems there was more than ample information to arrest her on suspicion of murder. That is what would have been done in most countries, that is most countries truly interested in solving crimes of this nature.

[suthnuh]

This is truly sad. My condolences to his family and friends. Via con Dios muchacho!

But really, no one has ever accused the Thai police of efficiency. It's just plain irresponsible to release a suspect you have in custody before the fingerprints, blood, hair, etc. - all the "gathered forensic evidence" it tested and conclusively releases that individual of wrong-doing.

Apparently, unless you are a foreign teen female, farangs get no justice. The laws of the Kingdom of Thailand are clear, but the police 1. don't know what the laws are; and 2. clearly have no interest in upholding them unless there's a financial return.

My wife's uncle is a Police Captain. Even he admits many police are sadly lacking in motivation without incentive.

Sounds like the Danish Embassy needs to begin an inquiry.

[TerryLH]

"I have been wondering long long time if maybe many Thai-Visa-Forum Farangs are sub-human actually. There are so many negative posts about Thailand, Thai Culture, Thai ways, Visa rules, etc. etc.

In all the years I live here, I live so happily with my Thai Family in this wonderful Thai culture. I don't feel racism at all. (I have been living in the Dutch Antilles in the Caribbean. I have never felt so much hatred and racism against white asses over there). Maybe some of you just dont fit in here.

For me it is quite easy to write what I think. Thailand is GREAT GREAT GREAT. And if you dont like it here, there are so many other nice countries you can live. Seek your opportunities there!"

_________________________________________________________________________--

Some of these people probably wouldn't be happy wherever they lived.

Condolences to the family and friends.

Edited May 27, 2007 by TerryLH

[useronthenet]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

Having read this article reminded me of a interesting programe I recently watched on National Geographical. It was a documentary about a high profiled and well-respected Dr Porntip Rojanasunan who's profession as a foresic scientist seemingly is thwarted by the Police and various burocrats of Thai society. She advocated that the system in place is inadequate and must be reformed. However of course, this has fallen on deaf ears, by those in power hel_l bent on keeping the current system intact, presumably for their own personal benefit.

The chances of any foreigner having any influence over such matters like for example Police murder investigations and how they are conducted is extremely remote given that Dr Porntip has tried for many years without any significant success.

Please take look at this archived link which you might find interesting

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2005/1141/

[suthnuh]

dont know what realy happened to the man but there are those on this forum who seem to be very quick in reponse.

unfortunatly most of those coming from other countries are used to the Media and culture that is very quick in accusing and making false charges before the facts are known.

...

no one realy knows what happened there and its up to the police to try and solve this case. I find it sad that some posters are assuming postions as judge and jury and condemed the girl.

I think the point most people (from a "Western" point of view) are trying to make is, even with due process of law, you don't release a murder suspect without either posting of bail, or at least basic forensic conclusion that the suspect is not the responsible party. If the finger prints and other data show potentially the suspect was involved, you hold them pending further tests. It's not about race or culture, it's about enforcing appropriate law and process (which are present in Thailand).

If she assaulted the man, that's assault and battery. If she assaulted him and he died accidentally, that's involuntary manslaughter, and if she assaulted him and he died but she had no premeditated intent to kill him that's manslaughter/murder 2. If she assaulted and killed him with intent, that's murder 1. Add in the fact that she attempted to steal the car? It's in her name so that's probably not attempted theft.

It's puzzling that once again a dead farang is found naked. We'll probably never know why, but could she have come back while the new girlfriend was away to try and romance the car away from him? That does add a strange twist to this episode.

Either way, my only desire is to see justice and due process. Again, my condolences to his family and friends.

[BlackArtemis]

There is one thing I have learned while living in Thailand. As long as I am not naked I wont be murdered or commit suicide.

[byeth]

yes, there is no equality, still, societies and the people that make them choose their basic values and in certain cases equality - and respect I should add - is high on the list in other cases it is low

If you are quoting politcians and what they promise to do, how often after they are elected do they follow through? Hardly ever.. and that is in all Democracies. I have no doubt in Thailand that respect and equality is desired by all. It is natural for people to want this. You can't judge all of Thai society based on one news story. If so, how about the story of the minor children boys in England who beat, raped and murdered a female child? How does that reflect how the children in England are brought up? Should we judge all for an unfortunate few? I have never heard of Thai children involved in these type things.

I am quoting no one. And I strongly agree about politicians, although I am not talking about that. The main point is what are the very basic values in a society. What moves people to act and react? Is it power in its two faces, i.e. 1) exerting power on others and 2) to be on the receiving side, or is it other values such as cooperation etc. I have lived in a number of countries and I have seen that unfortunately this is the case in some European countries, what moves people there is power (in some instances fear). But we must be careful because if it happens elsewhere it doesn't mean that it is not true in Thailand as well. In Thailand I have been doing business and living day to day and my distinct impression is that many Thais react to power and are very sensitive to control. Also what I find strange is that Thais are unable to accept any type of criticism, even positive, they attack immediately. This is not healthy for a society and there are a number of reasons for that, among them it helps irresponsible people proliferate, ideas do not circulate easily etc.

[sonnyJ]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

Well, foreigners are foreigners in any country. Especially in Asia.

If it's true that there is nothing about this on the local media, it is very worrysome.

Where are the real statistics of reported and/or estimated violence of Thailand?

[meibanfa]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

Having read this article reminded me of a interesting programe I recently watched on National Geographical. It was a documentary about a high profiled and well-respected Dr Porntip Rojanasunan who's profession as a foresic scientist seemingly is thwarted by the Police and various burocrats of Thai society. She advocated that the system in place is inadequate and must be reformed. However of course, this has fallen on deaf ears, by those in power hel_l bent on keeping the current system intact, presumably for their own personal benefit.

The chances of any foreigner having any influence over such matters like for example Police murder investigations and how they are conducted is extremely remote given that Dr Porntip has tried for many years without any significant success.

Please take look at this archived link which you might find interesting

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2005/1141/

Unfortunately, that link did not work for me, but Dr. Porntip's courage in dealing with the justice/forensic problems in Thailand is documented in this link: http://bangkok.metblogs.com/archives/2005/...ntip_a_tr.phtml

Doubt that it would have the slightest impact on the rose-colored glasses group though.

[StickKettleOn]

My point, regardless of how stronlgy i may have made it, remains; she should not be free.

Bugger the whole 'face' thing... whoever said that is being daft. The fact remains that an old guy and a younger woman had a fight, on his property, he died, and she fled the scene.

Yes, it may have been an accident. She may have hit him in self defence and he wobbled around for a minute, sliped on the floor and hit his head. Even if that is the case - she should still be locked up while they investigate.

The fact remains that they had a fight, he died, she is now free. She should be behind bars while they investigate.

I can guarantee you now, if i had a fight with my Thai girfriend and she died, there would be no mitigating circumstances in the eyes of the MIB. No self defence argument would be accepted and indeed, no investigation. I would be fast tracked through court and spend 30 years in Bangkoks finest.

I have still yet to read a valid argument from any poster as to why she has been released so soon.