Elderly Dane Found Murdered In His Home

[BigSnake]

So Sad, done in by a jealous Ex-lover over a car, look likes her new lover could not give her all she and hope for. A hint to the wise buy the car in your name(ie only way) pay cash for the bloody car otherwise you must put it in a Thai citizen name."been there done that" nothing but trouble, I sold it bought a new one CASH my name. RIP Friend.

[qualtrough]

I always find it mind-boggling that whenever something like this happens we get the 'Danger Will Robinson, Danger' crowd who act as if wives, husbands, and other lovers don't kill themselves in other countries. This type of crime, sad as it is, is not at all unique to Thailand. If you doubt that, google 'wife murders husband' or similar combinations. I checked the first three pages of results and Thailand didn't even make the list. The hostility some of the forum members have to Thailand and the Thais is truly amazing. If they think so little of them why don't they just move on and play somewhere else?

[gdhm]

Telling people to go home when more often than not Thailand is their adopted home is all too often the easy answer on this forum. Try something a bit more worth while. You know you can do it.

Ummm, ok, try this.................

Even though you are unhappy in Thailand, stay.

Hey Guys, there's PLENTY of middle ground here.

I am sure nobody in the World can say they are 100% happy with everything in the countries they live in, even if they consider they are living in the best country in the World, for them.

I live in Thailand and love it. Could I go home if I did not? NO my wife and stepson would be miserable as hel_l and I could not afford to keep them in the UK as I can here.

Do I think Thailand is a great place to live - YES.

Do I think EVERYTHING is perfect in Thailand NO. Nothing is perfect.

I also believe that Thailand cannot improve in areas it may be deficient if NOBODY points any weaknesses out. Those in authority cannot have the 100% knowledge and expertise of every individual on every subject. People need other peoples POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE input sometimes. We all learn all the time.

Those who feel Thailand has too many problems they do not like, have to make a decision whether Thailand is best for them, and if not "is there a better place they are in a position to go to?".

If they stay they should try not to negatively and constantly whinge. Nobody likes hearing their country being run down all the time by foreigners living in their land. I am sure the Aussie's remember the Whinging Poms of the 60's. (I'm, a Pom by the way).

However, having said that, those who feel Thailand is perfect in every way for them. Well I am happy for you but please be realistic "Do you really believe Thailand is perfect in every way way and every subject is beyond criticism? because I doubt any Thais do"

If some foreigners who live here feel Thailand has some problems that can improve it does NOT mean they want to leave,

OR that they do not love Thailand

OR that they are not happy here

OR that they believe many other countries would be nicer to live in.

AND I AM SURE they do not want to be kept being told "if you don't like it here you can always leave" when they feel one or two issues have room for improvement and voice their opinion on Forums.

Too many people are too "Black and White" about some subjects and MOST issues usually have a lot of grey.

Regards, Dave

Edited May 28, 2007 by gdhm

[vermin on arrival]

in any situation where you are a guest the minimum required is that you show respect to your host. if you dont like your host, his home, his culture, his way of thinking, or his way of life then LEAVE!!!

I'm really fed up with this kind of attitude. Certainly when you are in someone's home you should be polite. However highdiver, this forum is not your or anyone else's home, and people should be able to just let it fly as long as they aren't seriously flaming other posters. A forum is a perfectly acceptable place for people to complain or crticize. It also really amuses how much people whinge when they think others are whingers.

This forum is for expats, but thais are more than welcome to contribute. I can understand how one might dislike to see one's country criticized by foreigners( and at times quite severely), but this is a place where we can freely do that and those expats or thais who don't like it can just as easily leave the forum as they so easily are willing to tell others to leave the country. Sometime people need to vent and forums can be a conduit for doing so.

There are some very real problems in this country, and they need to be discussed. People who think that Thailand is great, great, great and that there isn't a problem with racism are deluding themselves(and I'm not saying that these problems don't exist elsewhere), maybe haven't been here long or are in denial. The rose colored glasses need to come off. A lot of these posts that tell people to leave are really only attempts to end discussion that might be making people feel uncomfortable.

The issue of the rape, murder and robbery of farang is a serious one for westerners or other foreigners here. It is very obvious from just a cursory study of the evidence to see that many of these crimes are swept under the rug due to apathy or corruption on the part of the police, or a fear of the damage it could do to tourism if people really knew the extent of the problem. To a lesser extent it does feel that the police care less about foreigners than thias. The only way this can be improved is if the situation is openly discussed with an eye towards finding the truth. Unfortunately, it seems like it will be impossible to find the real statistics.

The only time anything is done is when a powerful phu-yai or an embassy gets seriously involved. It's clear that it should do so in this case as well to make sure that justice is done, whatever that may be.

Grumps decision to arm himself out in the provinces is not a bad idea. I would much rather spend a number of years in jail for illegal weapon possession after killing someone trying to rob me or do me harm in my home than ending up like the poor guy in this thread.

Edited May 28, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[meemiathai]

I support every right of people complaining what they feel is wrong and unfair.

But look at some of the posts, people are giving false statements all the time. And whenever one incident occur, they start saying thais are this and thais are that. They claim to be victims all the time which in fact they are not.

[highdiver]

in any situation where you are a guest the minimum required is that you show respect to your host. if you dont like your host, his home, his culture, his way of thinking, or his way of life then LEAVE!!!

I'm really fed up with this kind of attitude. Certainly when you are in someone's home you should be polite. However highdiver, this forum is not your or anyone else's home, and people should be able to just let it fly as long as they aren't seriously flaming other posters. A forum is a perfectly acceptable place for people to complain or crticize. It also really amuses how much people whinge when they think others are whingers.

This forum is for expats, but thais are more than welcome to contribute. I can understand how one might dislike to see one's country criticized by foreigners( and at times quite severely), but this is a place where we can freely do that and those expats or thais who don't like it can just as easily leave the forum as they so easily are willing to tell others to leave the country. Sometime people need to vent and forums can be a conduit for doing so.

There are some very real problems in this country, and they need to be discussed. People who think that Thailand is great, great, great and that there isn't a problem with racism are deluding themselves(and I'm not saying that these problems don't exist elsewhere), maybe haven't been here long or are in denial. The rose colored glasses need to come off. A lot of these posts that tell people to leave are really only attempts to end discussion that might be making people feel uncomfortable.

The issue of the rape, murder and robbery of farang is a serious one for westerners or other foreigners here. It is very obvious from just a cursory study of the evidence to see that many of these crimes are swept under the rug due to apathy or corruption on the part of the police, or a fear of the damage it could do to tourism if people really knew the extent of the problem. To a lesser extent it does feel that the police care less about foreigners than thias. The only way this can be improved is if the situation is openly discussed with an eye towards finding the truth. Unfortunately, it seems like it will be impossible to find the real statistics.

The only time anything is done is when a powerful phu-yai or an embassy gets seriously involved. It's clear that it should do so in this case as well to make sure that justice is done, whatever that may be.

Grumps decision to arm himself out in the provinces is not a bad idea. I would much rather spend a number of years in jail for illegal weapon possession after killing someone trying to rob me or do me harm in my home than ending up like the poor guy in this thread.

i totaly agree with you. you see on the other hand from other flaming posters, you have debated in a nice calm manner your ideas with out bashing the thai people or the culture. i wish there were more like you.

the "dont like it leave" attitude that you were reffering to was not directed at those that debate the issues.

it was directed at those that whatever the issue is are allways inflaming and bashing. it was directed at those that no matter what the subject is they allways use the same anti thai racist remarks.

I know this forum is intended for Expats and i understand the need to let of some steam once in a while.

does that entitle poster to lie and invent facts?? does it allow them to disregard te subject of the debate and offend with no reason.

but there are some members that are living in thailand and the most amazing are those that dont even live here that do that every day on every post and on every thread no matter what the subject is using a false sense of superiority over the Thai people and the Thai culture.

hence the question... if they see it as so bad, and so corrupt, and so disturbing,and that all the Thais are liers who hate farrangs and only want to scam them and cheat them.underlining that Thailand is the worst in every aspect.. then why do they stay in Thailand?

I totaly agree with a lot of the points in your post. things in Thailand need improving and forigners in thailand can observe and criticize. and even bitch and whine but there is no call for this to become a policy of bashing racist remarks against the thai people.

I have seen posters here that have been living in thailand for many years and yet have no respect for the thai culture the Thai way of life or the thai mentality more so they dont even have respect for thai law and even post recomendations on how to over ride the law.. so why do they stay here??

would it not be logical to recomend them to leave??

[RagingBrit]

This is tragic but when will these idiots ever learn?

In most cases when a woman young enough to be the granddaughter of an old man begins to show interest in that man, the main motive is normally money, especially here in Thailand.

I have personally witnessed many middle-aged and old farangs including friends in Thailand behaving like stupid drooling schoolboys falling in love for the first time when an attractive much younger Thai woman shows interest in them, really believing that the girl finds them attractive and will love them and be loyal forever if the girls are given a place to live, financial security and lots of expensive gifts.

The true motives of most of these girls is to extract the most cash and assets as quickly as possible from the silly old love sick farang. In fact it becomes their mission often with the collaboration of their families, friends, and other farangs they have on the go plus the Thai loser boyfriend lurking in the background.

For those who are now in this predicament, grow up and get into the real world, otherwise it’s going to cost you dear, maybe even your life like this poor Danish guy.

[endure]

in any situation where you are a guest the minimum required is that you show respect to your host. if you dont like your host, his home, his culture, his way of thinking, or his way of life then LEAVE!!!

I'm really fed up with this kind of attitude. Certainly when you are in someone's home you should be polite. However highdiver, this forum is not your or anyone else's home, and people should be able to just let it fly as long as they aren't seriously flaming other posters. A forum is a perfectly acceptable place for people to complain or crticize. It also really amuses how much people whinge when they think others are whingers.

This forum is for expats, but thais are more than welcome to contribute.

A correction. This forum is for anyone with an interest in Thailand, not simply for expats. Not only are Thais 'more than welcome to contribute', we welcome them with open arms to bring a bit of balance into the place.

[Guts]

Ah haha, another falang prick wanting other falangs out. I've met quite a few of you over here. Is that the "I love the locals so much, they'll end up loving me for sure? Mostly when the others left?" feeling?

Thais love Thais, and they are far from being the only country being racist. Almost all nations are.

Ha, ha , ha, again those funny assumptions. I never said "wanting other farangs out". But what is the point of living in Thailand if you feel continiously discriminated? If you feel you are not loved by its people? If you think Thais love only Thais? If you always feel Thais are out there to cheat you? What kind of fun and happiness does that create for you?

Ofcourse Thailand has racism, and sure Thailand is far from perfect and many things can be improved, but those farang with an ever lasting negative outlook on Thai Things because it all works against them in some way.... what is it that keeps you here?

Life is what you make of it and it definitely helps to fight off your negative attitudes and build positive ones. There are many great locals in Thailand, and like in every country, you can build long-term mutually beneficial relationships here. You can love, and be loved here.

For me it is the perfect place to be! Hope there are much more farangs sharing this vision!

[Lorin]

This is tragic but when will these idiots ever learn?

In most cases when a woman young enough to be the granddaughter of an old man begins to show interest in that man, the main motive is normally money, especially here in Thailand.

I have personally witnessed many middle-aged and old farangs including friends in Thailand behaving like stupid drooling schoolboys falling in love for the first time when an attractive much younger Thai woman shows interest in them, really believing that the girl finds them attractive and will love them and be loyal forever if the girls are given a place to live, financial security and lots of expensive gifts.

The true motives of most of these girls is to extract the most cash and assets as quickly as possible from the silly old love sick farang. In fact it becomes their mission often with the collaboration of their families, friends, and other farangs they have on the go plus the Thai loser boyfriend lurking in the background.

For those who are now in this predicament, grow up and get into the real world, otherwise it’s going to cost you dear, maybe even your life like this poor Danish guy.

Well said...you just covered it all. I saw it many times from the "farang on the go" point of view, but those stories are all copies in small variations. I feel really sorry for the old guy that finished his life that way. RIP...

[sbk]

I feel really sorry for the old guy that finished his life that way. RIP...

Which was the point of this thread that many have lost sight of. This poor man was bashed to death. Sad and awful. Avoidable? Maybe. But lets face reality, we have all made foolish choices and stupid mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to look at this poor man's life and death and say he should have known better.

When the sad fact is he paid for his mistakes with his life and an awful death. Condolences to his family.

[StickKettleOn]

My point, regardless of how stronlgy i may have made it, remains; she should not be free.

Bugger the whole 'face' thing... whoever said that is being daft. The fact remains that an old guy and a younger woman had a fight, on his property, he died, and she fled the scene.

Realy ??? how do you know that??

Yes, it may have been an accident. She may have hit him in self defence and he wobbled around for a minute, sliped on the floor and hit his head. Even if that is the case - she should still be locked up while they investigate.

Realy?? so you know all the details allready and you are sure that she is involved??

The fact remains that they had a fight, he died, she is now free. She should be behind bars while they investigate.

Really what fact remains?? did you see it? do you know for 100% she did it and she belongs behind bars?

I can guarantee you now, if i had a fight with my Thai girfriend and she died, there would be no mitigating circumstances in the eyes of the MIB. No self defence argument would be accepted and indeed, no investigation. I would be fast tracked through court and spend 30 years in Bangkoks finest.

yes you would once they establish that you did it?

I have still yet to read a valid argument from any poster as to why she has been released so soon.

just to remid you about my earlier point of making assumptions accusations and so forth.

this is from the article that started this debate.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

so they only suspected.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

they colected the evidence and are now evaluating and witing for results.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

so they brought her in for quetioning and as they did not have substanial eviddence to detain her or arrest her they let her go. this is common practice even in the Wester countries you either charge the suspect or you let them go..

try reading the original post again. and see through out the thread how many poster have made groundless accusations and baseless judgements.

A few months ago there was a horrible attack on a Thai woman in Samui. after the first press release that said the police suspected the former boyfriend, many Thai Visa members made a realy long thread of posts flaming remarks about the police and about the former boyfriend. they viciously posted groundless accusations and baseless judgements. some even went as far as finding the guy guilty and debating how many years sentence he should get.

After the police concluded the investigation it was found to be a construction worker that did it and that the former boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

how many poststers that accused this guy and the police came back and posted an appollogy or a regret??? ZERO!!!

you would think they will learn something.

the Thais having a culture of "face saving" take mesures to aviod accusing anyone unless they have solid evidence.

I truely hope that some of the members will learn from this culture.

In the USA you can be held for 48 hours without any charges being made. this should allow enough time for the forensics team to check finger prints etc. As another poster said you can be held on suspicion of murder pending investigation if they think you are a flight risk.

Rubbish.

the police can detain you for interigation only. once the interigation is over they need to charge you. if they dont charge you you can go free untill they do charge you. in the USA you can not arrest someone with out charging them.

they can ask you "not to leave town" as you may be needed for further questioning, bu they dont keep you locked up unless the press charges.

in Thailand its the same. after your interview is over the police must have some evidence to press charges if they dont they need to let you go.

Highdiver - again you are missing the point and using the finer points of various international law to digress from one HUGE wrong; that being, this chick was released after a matter of hours, with no bail posted, prior to forensic investigation. If the info on this forum is correct and the police did indeed announce this woman as the immediate suspect, what on earth are they doing releasing her so soon? I only have two gripes here; firstly, it is bang out of order that this woman was released so soon and secondly, (just to please the hippies out there that think i am Thai bashing) i very much doubt the prime suspect would have been released if this was Thai on Thai.

It is wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!!!! She should have been detained and alow me to retiterate why she wasnt;

1) it was a ferang thta dies

2) the police are stupid

Either reason sucks!

Jump on Pattayacitynews website and read about the murders on there, Thai on Thai. The slightest wiff of suspicion and the suspected 'perp' is locked up indefinatley while they look into the case. Why was this woman, who by the police own admmsion, released so soon? The only answer they could offer is;

"yeh well we asked her if she did it, she said no, so we let her go"

It stinks man!!!

Saddening that there's no local or national coverage of this news.

funny, i was just thinking the opposite: "why does every farang murdered in thailand merit headlines on thaivisa?"

plenty of thais are murdered in thailand each day, but nobody screams for their justice.

plenty of farangs are murdered outside thailand each day, yet nobody thinks each of those needs "national coverage" in other countries.

farangs in thailand... for some reason people think they're special.

I'm guessing that you are Thai for posting this, Did you not read who this forum is for ?

Scroll DOWN !

Thailand Expat Forum © 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 Thai Visa - thaivisa.com

THAILAND'S LEADING EXPATRIATE PORTAL

Post your "anti farang" comments to a Thai forum if your government allow you to do so !

this forum is indeed dedicated to the expatriate visiting or residing in thailand. its nice that there is a place to share ideas and thoughts with others.

no one has ever suggested that thailand is perfect, there is allways room for improvement however this is not a thai bashing forum. and some members are using this forum to spread racist anti Thai views, groundless accusations, baseless judgements and inflaming remarks about the Thai culture and thai people.

I will be very happy to debate any issue that I feel i can contribute to the disussion and we can even argue and . but there is no need to have offensive racist remarks or bashing remarks.

There are some members that just dont stop bitching and crying about how every thing is wrong with Thaialnd. nothing is good, everything corrupt and how the thai people are a bunch of infentile useless mob.

to those memebers who are not happy in thailand , I like others suggest. that if it is so bad then go to another country.

in any situation where you are a guest the minimum required is that you show respect to your host. if you dont like your host, his home, his culture, his way of thinking, or his way of life then LEAVE!!!

Very much agreed.

But it would be less fun or boring without the bashers. The anti-bashers will have no one to bash.

It is already quite difficult nowadays to find a thread I can whinge on the whingers here.

Im sick of this Thai Basher tag just because we stand up and voice our opinions. Sure, we love it here. yes, its sunny and lovely and mai pen rai etc etc blah blah blah.... Do we not have the right to express and highlight the obvious and clear wrongs in this sorry bloody country just because we are not born here? Should we ignore clear wrongs simply becasue its out choice to be here? The inteligence of posters here who seem to think some of us are 'Thai Bashers' can be qualified by your resounding and unified answer to this apparent negative attitude - if you dont like it, go home. How narrow minded and childish. Kinda like 'its my ball, im the captain'

Read some of the political debates going on in the news or general forums. Many posters there condem the current and (mostly) previous governments and managment of this country. I used to wonder why all the hippies out there did not jump on those threads and accuse posters of 'Thai Bashing' however now the reason is clear; the politics of Thailand are way too deep for you and you prefer instead to pounce on us folk who disagree with isolated injustices.

[exexpat]

With all these postings, this clearly hit a nerve...

I think there is a major disconnect here, and I can only reflect 

rationally because I'm not in Thailand...

 

The *real* issue here is not his death.  Tourists are murdered too but somehow they don't invoke the same reaction...we just write it off as bad luck. The real issue is how divergent expat Farang and Thai points of view have become...

Having travelled elsewhere, I notice some of the same issues of citizens vs permanent foreign residents...in Japan, Taiwan, and even the USA.  

For one, I do notice Farang tend to bad mouth other nations, even developed ones, simply because they fail to understand their system.  (I am farang, btw).  However, as a decent American, I would never tell someone to "go back to their country".  I feel this is unrealistic and extremely insensitive.  Also, in US, foreign immigrants are allowed and do protest (a lot). 

For Farang to understand Thai better, we need to:

1. Respect their ways of doing things, not be so nitpicky

2. Not get "spooked" by gossip regarding Thailand.

3. Understand your position. Your actions can "ruin" other people, especially young people, by making their expectations unrealistic or reinforcing bad behaviours by spoiling them.  Many young are trying to escape the hard realities of life...but escapism will never help Thais or Thailand.

4. Understand that "bad" people will naturally attract to those who

have more and can least protect themselves in ANY society.  It's your job, not others, to avoid any "dangers".

5. Learn Thai language well.  Yes, Thailand is one nation that does a lot so you don't have to notice they have a language.  But if you plan to make Thailand your home, it would behoove you to 

learn the language well, as hard as it may be.  It will defuse suspicions and allow you to express communicate (and defend yourself) on a higher level.  It would be silly to move to China without learning Chinese, why do we move to Thailand without learning Thai?

For Thai to understand Farang, they need to:

1. Understand the difficulty of living abroad, in terms of language, discrimination, lack of rights and recourse.

2. Understand that farang who settle don't have many choices...

Farang have invested and given up so much to just come here...and cannot simply just "get out".  It is also extremely insensitive to say this.

3. Farangs have a much harder time telling who is good or bad, 

and they need to be protected and taught how to "defend themselves".

4. Thai must understand their own nationalism, and theirs or any other's for that matter, can trample other people's rights.

5. Farang concerns should not be brushed off as "farang baa" (crazy westerners).  We may ask disturbing questions, but thats because we need to feel secure here in your country.

As for the murder, it disturbs us to the core because its wrapped up with who we want to love, the fact that we can't trust the legal system, and we don't understand/trust the Thai system, and our judgement isn't so good, and many of us do 

things in Thailand that we wouldn't otherwise do back home.   This makes us feel vulnerable because everything revolves around money, even murder, and we are seen as having money.  But we must be level headed about this.

I know this brings up a lot of questions like...did these people do something to instigate the murder or was it just plain greed?   Of course, we think the Thai just shrug it off, and they probably do, but then again most murders are shrugged off (even in our own nations)...

nobody wants to dwell on that kind of stuff.

Edited May 28, 2007 by exexpat

[Messmann]

“ The Nissan pick-up truck was found parked in the garage unlock, the cabinet in the front of the car was open. The police checked the license and the car belongs to Anong Chaiyawut, 52 years from Chiangmai.

According to neighbours the Dane has been living in this house for about three years with Anong and bought her the car. Later, Anong broke up with him and move in with another foreigner. After that, the Dane brought a woman named .June to live in the house with him. Before the incident, June had gone back to visit her birthplace and it was during her absence, that Anong came by and asked for the keys to the car. But the Dane refused to give it to her and they could hear they had a fight about this before there was suddenly silence.”

I can imagine what the old Dane was thinking and saying to Anong when she came by and asked for the keys to HER car. And I can imagine they had a fight or more about this before. If HE bought the Nissan I don’t understand why the car was not in HIS name as it would very easy!

Sorry it ended this way but I can’t feel any sadness for this old Dane.

Why did Anong leave him? Had he been violent before?

I can see that many of the negative (bitter) persons here have lost a lot of money because all their properties (house, car, motorbike) were in the wife/girlfriends name. If the wife/girlfriend leaves you, you usually only have your suitcase…! Farangs never learn it.

[exexpat]

This is a topic that just won't go away.   Month after month, another farang is murdered by his so called lover...as reported in Bkkpost or Nation.

In Thailand, you're an immigrant, and immigrants rights are taken for granted here.  But the story is the same in every nation. People who aren't expressly protected are always marginalized. Murdered black youth in the ghetto in the US don't get investigated properly either, nor do Burmese or Hmong in Thailand.

What is an immigrant/expat/minority to do? Just sit in the back of the bus and complain? Inflaming online does no good...as they just counterattack, making us more angry. From the Thai point of view, we are just a bunch of complainers, because tourists seem "to love" them.  If you say it, they think you're just a complainer, or worse, that you deserve it as "what goes around comes around".

Well, as any immigrant group has, form an organization to protect our rights. That's the only way we will get any respect and be heard (with one voice)...

Japanese-American murders, on the other hand, get investigated in US throughly, even before Japan was a powerful nation.  Why? Because of the powerful Japanese American Citizens League (JACL), formed in the early 1900's to counter forced detentions of Japanese in World War II and forced seizures of their businesses, and other discrimination and racism.

Ok, its not that bad. But we have rights that are being taken for granted, and we need to feel safe and secure, and have equal opportunities where we live...

Farang are not the only expats in Thailand. Japanese in fact number more than all farang, and there are other asians as well. Many of them are also unhappy with the way things as more and more rights and priviledges are being taken, some regarding business and politics, other personal.  If it really bothers you, then don't bitch online, form a association to protect expat interests.   Remember, Embassies aren't an alternative, as they only handle international incidents, personal things you are on your own. If you have to, meet in like minded people's homes.

Edited May 28, 2007 by exexpat

[vermin on arrival]

in any situation where you are a guest the minimum required is that you show respect to your host. if you dont like your host, his home, his culture, his way of thinking, or his way of life then LEAVE!!!

I'm really fed up with this kind of attitude. Certainly when you are in someone's home you should be polite. However highdiver, this forum is not your or anyone else's home, and people should be able to just let it fly as long as they aren't seriously flaming other posters. A forum is a perfectly acceptable place for people to complain or crticize. It also really amuses how much people whinge when they think others are whingers.

This forum is for expats, but thais are more than welcome to contribute.

A correction. This forum is for anyone with an interest in Thailand, not simply for expats. Not only are Thais 'more than welcome to contribute', we welcome them with open arms to bring a bit of balance into the place.

I stand corrected.

[backflip]

"From the Thai point of view, we are just a bunch of complainers"

My point of view is identical to the Thais.

"...the powerful Japanese American Citizens League (JACL), formed in the early 1900's to counter forced detentions of Japanese in World War II..."

So, the League was formed to counter something that was going to happen 40 years in the future?

[sriracha john]

The Japanese tend to be very clever people....

[Virgil]

Thankfully, I married a Thai girl studying dentistry in Sydney. OK ... all dentists are sadists! My wife and I both know that .... but putting her career choice aside, she's a wonderful girl. And we manage to surround ourselves with beautiful people - friends and family.

yes, it's generally true, you marry a bar girl, and that's the package you get. In comparison; if a guy were looking for a live-in au-pair for his kids, you'd think he might do some research on the prospective gal. However, if a guy gets all excited for a young smiling miss, he tosses caution to the wind. On the other side of the equation, someone like Virgil finds a college-trained lass and marries her - there's still a chance she could leave him and take as much as she can in the process - as women from all walks of life are known to do. Plus, you can bet a man in Virgil's situation is paying daily for having his dream girl stay around - serious amounts of money going to her and her Thai family on an on-going basis. If the payments dried up, how much longer would she keep staying with the old guy?

No Brahmburgers, I don't pay and I don't take kindly to your opinion that I do. My wife's family is middle class and her parents are well educated. The whole family has a westernised outlook on Thai life. My wife does give money to cousins, etc and she hates it. In fact, we tend to travel abroad during Songkran and other festivals to avoid having to give handouts. I am gainfully employed in an international company here. Most of our savings are invested in Australia. My personal view: any ex-pat who is funding his wife's family is married to the wrong girl ... or stark raving mad ... or both. You should all stop paying. Right now. Would you pay if you were married to an American, English or Australian woman? Then why pay in Thailand? Because it is Thai culture? What about your culture?

There's a chance that ANY woman could leave ANY man ANYWHERE in the world. Neither of us married for money. We are both of similar economic standing. Both of us are tired of the stereotypical response that we must be paying money. It simply isn't true.

Oh, and as to being old Brahmburgers .... I'm 39 and my wife is 37. I don't know how old you are, but we don't feel that old.

Virgil, Out!

[wolfmanjack]

My point, regardless of how stronlgy i may have made it, remains; she should not be free.

Bugger the whole 'face' thing... whoever said that is being daft. The fact remains that an old guy and a younger woman had a fight, on his property, he died, and she fled the scene.

Realy ??? how do you know that??

Yes, it may have been an accident. She may have hit him in self defence and he wobbled around for a minute, sliped on the floor and hit his head. Even if that is the case - she should still be locked up while they investigate.

Realy?? so you know all the details allready and you are sure that she is involved??

The fact remains that they had a fight, he died, she is now free. She should be behind bars while they investigate.

Really what fact remains?? did you see it? do you know for 100% she did it and she belongs behind bars?

I can guarantee you now, if i had a fight with my Thai girfriend and she died, there would be no mitigating circumstances in the eyes of the MIB. No self defence argument would be accepted and indeed, no investigation. I would be fast tracked through court and spend 30 years in Bangkoks finest.

yes you would once they establish that you did it?

I have still yet to read a valid argument from any poster as to why she has been released so soon.

just to remid you about my earlier point of making assumptions accusations and so forth.

this is from the article that started this debate.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

so they only suspected.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

they colected the evidence and are now evaluating and witing for results.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

so they brought her in for quetioning and as they did not have substanial eviddence to detain her or arrest her they let her go. this is common practice even in the Wester countries you either charge the suspect or you let them go..

try reading the original post again. and see through out the thread how many poster have made groundless accusations and baseless judgements.

A few months ago there was a horrible attack on a Thai woman in Samui. after the first press release that said the police suspected the former boyfriend, many Thai Visa members made a realy long thread of posts flaming remarks about the police and about the former boyfriend. they viciously posted groundless accusations and baseless judgements. some even went as far as finding the guy guilty and debating how many years sentence he should get.

After the police concluded the investigation it was found to be a construction worker that did it and that the former boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

how many poststers that accused this guy and the police came back and posted an appollogy or a regret??? ZERO!!!

you would think they will learn something.

the Thais having a culture of "face saving" take mesures to aviod accusing anyone unless they have solid evidence.

I truely hope that some of the members will learn from this culture.

In the USA you can be held for 48 hours without any charges being made. this should allow enough time for the forensics team to check finger prints etc. As another poster said you can be held on suspicion of murder pending investigation if they think you are a flight risk.

Rubbish.

the police can detain you for interigation only. once the interigation is over they need to charge you. if they dont charge you you can go free untill they do charge you. in the USA you can not arrest someone with out charging them.

they can ask you "not to leave town" as you may be needed for further questioning, bu they dont keep you locked up unless the press charges.

in Thailand its the same. after your interview is over the police must have some evidence to press charges if they dont they need to let you go.

HighDiver,

I do not know where you are from but you do not know much about the USA legal system. This is a quote from the American Bar Association. If you do not know what that is i suggest you look it up.

How long may police hold suspects before filing charges?

If the police have probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime but have not yet brought formal charges, they may detain him or her in custody only for a short period of time (generally 24 to 48 hours). After this short period the police must release the person or bring formal charges and take him or her before a judge. However, he or she may be rearrested at a later date if the police obtain sufficient evidence.

[mayacan]

The initial point is that someone was murdered. This is a shame. My condolences go out to his family. Whatever happens after this will be up to the locl authorities, weather they are corrupt or not, time will tell. Yes, Racism is everywhere, in all countries. I'm an American who has have lived in Korea, Japan, visited China, And Thaland 7 times, staying for 1 month at a time. There does seem to be a greater amount of violence toward farangs in Thailand that in those other Asian countries.

The reasons may indeed be economical, with the large sex industry in Thailand, and the people who run the industry, as well as the people who visit those establishments, this might lead to this type of behavior. Many Farangs do visit Thailand for the sex, and the thrill of being with a young lady, and possibly finding what they believe might be love.... Sometimes it works out, some times it doesn't.

My own experienced has lead me to believe you're going to meet some good people and some bad people. I have met some good women away from the sex industry, just your everyday Thai woman, and educated Thai women as well. Almost all of the women that I have met at bars are not the trusting marrying type. Simply put, you're asking for trouble if you think a bar woman will fall in love for your heart, and good, kind spirit. But the bottom line, because of the economic situation of Thailand, women having to work as sex workers to take of their families, and the farangs who really don't understand the culture... problems will arise.

My heart goes out to all involved, the dead man and his family, to the Thai woman who was involved with him, and to a country where there are so many uneducated, poor women who feel they have so search for wealth through sex jobs, and meeting a starnge farangs because they live in a country where the corporate world still sees its people as modern slaves...

[gdhm]

....This forum is for anyone with an interest in Thailand, not simply for expats. Not only are Thais 'more than welcome to contribute', we welcome them with open arms to bring a bit of balance into the place.

I agree 100%. I very much enjoy and am interested in Thai input on all subjects. I wish there were more Thai members on the Forum and they contribute to new insights, better balanced perspectives and information.

I have lived in Thailand for only a year. Even after (hopefully) many years in Thailand I do not expect to be able to look at things from a Thai persons perspective, fully understand Thai culture and attitudes compared to with Thais who has lived here all his/her life. My wife does her best but she is but one person.

My Thai is non-existent (I am not proud of that fact) and I am VERY grateful to the Thais who can speak English and are kind enough to join and input to the various subjects on this and other Thai "English language" Forums.

Kind Regards

Dave

Edited May 29, 2007 by gdhm

[Ping]

Jim Thompson never learnt to speak Thai fluently - yet he is the basis for the revitalised silk industry in Thailand. That is not to say that one shouldn't learn the local language - I agree that it makes life a heck of a lot simpler.

I echo the sentiments of sympathy and note that the evidence would be sufficient to detain the person in many 'western' nations. Certainly in Australia and many other western nations, detention on reasonable suspicion creates a reverse onus upon a person to establish a right to bail in respect of capital crime and other serious indictable offences (Supreme Court bail application for capital crime). Detention can only be for a reasonable period prior to the decision to charge (having established a 'prima facie' case - not to be confused with the jury's determination of whether a case has been proven beyond reasonable doubt). It may be argued that the facts indicate a prima facie case was already established (voice identification by a neighbour of a person known for three years, in conjunction with the conversation about the car that was overheard which further links the ex). If the ex now changes her story for denial of involvement to self-defence or accident, her initial denial (in law a 'false denial') can also be used. However (1) we only know the facts second-hand and (2) the laws of Thailand will undoubtedly differ from western law. Notwithstanding, I am confident we will hear a result in due course. It is fine and healthy to debate these issues, I just cannot understand why someone with a different opinion finds it necessary to flame those who disagree - it is childish.

[highdiver]

My point, regardless of how stronlgy i may have made it, remains; she should not be free.

Bugger the whole 'face' thing... whoever said that is being daft. The fact remains that an old guy and a younger woman had a fight, on his property, he died, and she fled the scene.

Realy ??? how do you know that??

Yes, it may have been an accident. She may have hit him in self defence and he wobbled around for a minute, sliped on the floor and hit his head. Even if that is the case - she should still be locked up while they investigate.

Realy?? so you know all the details allready and you are sure that she is involved??

The fact remains that they had a fight, he died, she is now free. She should be behind bars while they investigate.

Really what fact remains?? did you see it? do you know for 100% she did it and she belongs behind bars?

I can guarantee you now, if i had a fight with my Thai girfriend and she died, there would be no mitigating circumstances in the eyes of the MIB. No self defence argument would be accepted and indeed, no investigation. I would be fast tracked through court and spend 30 years in Bangkoks finest.

yes you would once they establish that you did it?

I have still yet to read a valid argument from any poster as to why she has been released so soon.

just to remid you about my earlier point of making assumptions accusations and so forth.

this is from the article that started this debate.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

so they only suspected.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

they colected the evidence and are now evaluating and witing for results.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

so they brought her in for quetioning and as they did not have substanial eviddence to detain her or arrest her they let her go. this is common practice even in the Wester countries you either charge the suspect or you let them go..

try reading the original post again. and see through out the thread how many poster have made groundless accusations and baseless judgements.

A few months ago there was a horrible attack on a Thai woman in Samui. after the first press release that said the police suspected the former boyfriend, many Thai Visa members made a realy long thread of posts flaming remarks about the police and about the former boyfriend. they viciously posted groundless accusations and baseless judgements. some even went as far as finding the guy guilty and debating how many years sentence he should get.

After the police concluded the investigation it was found to be a construction worker that did it and that the former boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

how many poststers that accused this guy and the police came back and posted an appollogy or a regret??? ZERO!!!

you would think they will learn something.

the Thais having a culture of "face saving" take mesures to aviod accusing anyone unless they have solid evidence.

I truely hope that some of the members will learn from this culture.

In the USA you can be held for 48 hours without any charges being made. this should allow enough time for the forensics team to check finger prints etc. As another poster said you can be held on suspicion of murder pending investigation if they think you are a flight risk.

Rubbish.

the police can detain you for interigation only. once the interigation is over they need to charge you. if they dont charge you you can go free untill they do charge you. in the USA you can not arrest someone with out charging them.

they can ask you "not to leave town" as you may be needed for further questioning, bu they dont keep you locked up unless the press charges.

in Thailand its the same. after your interview is over the police must have some evidence to press charges if they dont they need to let you go.

HighDiver,

I do not know where you are from but you do not know much about the USA legal system. This is a quote from the American Bar Association. If you do not know what that is i suggest you look it up.

How long may police hold suspects before filing charges?

If the police have probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime but have not yet brought formal charges, they may detain him or her in custody only for a short period of time (generally 24 to 48 hours). After this short period the police must release the person or bring formal charges and take him or her before a judge. However, he or she may be rearrested at a later date if the police obtain sufficient evidence.

you have proven my point exactly... with out knowing anything about me you assume that i have no idea abou the US legal syatem. and this is the whole point that i was making. baseless assumptions.

however I totaly agree with you. you basicly quated what i said in the first place.

in the USA police can detain you and interigate you for up to 48 hours. not arrest, not lock up, and not jailed, they can only detain you for interigation. but once the interigation is over. and the police have no more questions for you then they bring formal charges or let you go. you dont sit around the police station waiting for the police to come up with new questions. if they have new questions they can allways call you in again. it works the same in thailand.

the point above was my response to the baseless opinion as to why the girl was realeased after interigation and not locked up.

We dont know why they released her it was not reported.

we do know from the report that she denies having anything to do with the case and the that police released her.

the police can still press charges and arrest her (lock up)in the future. no one let her of the hook yet. they just did not press charges yet.

if you read the original post you will see that some of the posters with out knowing the facts and based on this report have taken the liberty to make baseles assumptions and post judegement about the police and the girl. some have taken this liberty as far as analising the relations between them with out a shred of evidence.

there is a difference expressing views and thoughts based on facts and making one up.

[Scott]

My deepest condolences to everyone affected by this. Crimes of passion are not new. Greed is not specific to Thailand. Lets try to remember this man in a kindly fashion as someone who shared with others.

RIP

[IAMSOBAD]

We have no idea what kind of man he was...or what kind of woman she was. but we do know how the police think and dont think. i bet she gets away with murder and the car.

i heard viagra sales are falling because of all the old farang being quietly eliminated. TIT.

Edited May 29, 2007 by IAMSOBAD

[larvidchr]

The funny thing is, that in Denmark little coverage has been made. It's currently running in some online editions of the newspapers, but is it gonna make tv? Hardly.

That's where YOU can help out. Please post the links to these stories as earlier I had found nothing other than the OP. If the stories are in Danish, YOU can help Thaivisa there, too, presuming you can read Danish, provide us a rough translation. TV is what YOU make of it... and we would very much appreciate your assistance.

Thank you for your post...

This is what I in abbreviated form have seen in a major (well as major as they get in a country of Denmarks size ) Danish Tabloid newspaper "Ekstra Bladet".

Headline:

Beaten to Death with his own walkingstick.

Murder in paradise.

Story:

Police found a walkingstick coverd in blood and hairs, apart from that police was able to recover fingerprints from the walkingstick.

Police questioning former girlfriend Anong Chaiyawut.

"according to this papers investigation cooperating with the Thai police, the Thai police have informed us that they have found the fingerprints of Anong on the walkingstick, the Thai police is now investigating wether During died from the beating with the walkingstick, or from a fall as a result of the beating."

Anong Chaiyawut denies everything.

During was found near the terrace door and there where blood tracks several places in the house.

According to unconfirmed rumors in the city, the woman have tried to kill During before, that beeing by the way of poisoening, wich lead to During beeing hospitalised.

This is about it, the last bit here is rather interesting, but then again the paper is a bit like the English "SUN" and not everything always proves to be right.

RIP During.

Kind regards

[sriracha john]

Thank you for providing that, larvidchr.

That's precisely what we need as there has been a dearth of any follow-up articles.

[MaiChai]

I am sadden to read this story. This could happen to any foreigner living here. Hope he made the best of his time in LOS.

Would he have died if he could have bought the car in his own name? Most European countries don't discrimate when it comes to buying things; I mean anyone can buy a car or house in the UK, BUT you need the right visa to work in the UK. In Thailand everything is against the foreigner; his old girlfriend could have taken the car legally without killing him since its 'owned' by her (I am assuming she killed him based on the information we have). The fact that he bought it for her probably would not stand up in court assumming he did not hand the keys over?

If Taksin ever gets back in power, he may wish to repricocate the welcome he was shown in the UK to the foreigners living here in Thailand? We Brits did not tell him he cant buy a house because he is a foreigner, nor did we stop him when he wished to buy a British football club!

[peterdigger]

I always see Chiang Mai as a fairly safe place to live, i imagine (hope) this kind of thing is rare here..or maybe i am naive.

Regardless, this is very sad indeed. Condolences to his family and those who knew him.

I have been living here in Chiang Mai for years and regrettably, this is not the first farang murdered here - I can recall about half a dozen or more in the last seven years, - one was a British friend of mine who ran a guest house at Mae Rim. He had been here so long that he had Thai ID. He got in an argument with a group of young Thai louts who kicked him to death. The police located the killers, locked a couple up for a few months till the "heat died down" and then let the offenders go. Another was also a Brit, shot execution style in the back outside a 7/11 store. It seems his wife's family wanted the house he had built on their land (he had a Thai wife). The police never solved that one either. His grave is in the local expat cemetary. I think Chiang Mai is pretty safe too, but the police in Thailand ? Well, hmm... don't hold your breath...