Why So Many Cynical, Angry Bitter Members

[cm-happy]

Why so many cynical, angry/bitter members around. Everything is either a scam, rip-off, or gangster/mafia driven.

I've been ripped off here a few times, but also in Europe, Africa & S. America as well.

Just chalk it up to experience, and a learning experience & hopfully the experience has made me wiser so I do not fall into that trap again & move on with my life.

I'm not a member of the "love it or leave it club" & just view these occurances due to my own stupidity.

Those pple who post as a warning, thank you.

[peter991]

With few exceptions it seems:

Farang tourists - smile.

Farang ex-pats - grimace.

That's how you tell the visitors from those who live in Thailand.

Peter

[sukanyacondo]

I Imagine same as most people you dont want to be taken advantage of. Speaking personally I would be most offended if i was scammed as I try to be fair and honest to people but always careful when asked for money. If its too good to be true it probably is, or "you dont get owt for nowt"

[bendix]

With few exceptions it seems:

Farang tourists - smile.

Farang ex-pats - grimace.

That's how you tell the visitors from those who live in Thailand.

Peter

Well, i'm an exception. Coming up for three years here and still as happy as a proverbial pig in sh*t. Scams? What scams? They are no more prevalent nor as sophisticated as any scams anywhere else in the world. However, the difference here is that your typical farang is probably wooed into a false sense of superiority (based, no doubt, on him suddenly feeling wealthy and luckier than his fellow man for the first time in his life) and that makes falling a cropper to the scams feel worse, hence the tirades on here.

[onzestan]

I'm not a member of the "love it or leave it club" & just view these occurances due to my own stupidity.

Those pple who post as a warning, thank you.

Dear cm-happy.

You have given the root of the problem yourself. How many people you know will admit that they're stupid.

Plus the fact that many of these posters are craving for some attention, and thus either exagerate certain mishaps, or give it a more macho twist.

Read between the lines and you will find a wealth of usefull information here.

My 2 cents

cheers

onzestan

[girlx]

i just think some of them are currently in that expat stage of bewilderment and derision towards the thought processes of the locals who are of a completely different culture. any expat forum in the world is probably somewhat bitter and twisted. we'll all get over it some day, but then there will be a new batch of people being initiated into the "thai way".

[sukanyacondo]

To be honest i havent experienced any real problems with any of my dealings yet, some misunderstandings yes but in general have found the Thias I deal with fair enough. Maybe having a Thai wife observing also helps a lot?

I imagine there is a big difference when living away from farang orientated areas also such as Pattaya and Phuket etc

There could also be the many cultural differences such as after buying somehting no matter what the problem is dont expect and customer service comebacks warranties dont really exist to a large degree which is why you see so many opened boxes in supermarkets a s folk make sure what they are buying is ok. Tesco do have a 7 day money back policy though.

I always find that many time i have been told by a Thai "that cant be done" only after chatting for sometime and a pitiful look form us that it CAN be done. Was told I couldnt open a bank account once but after 5 hours they managed it!!!!!! patience is a virtue here even when complaining. Dont expect your big chest beating to work well in Thailand but persistance pays off.

[GuestHouse]

Let's not deny the fact that there are a lot of scams in Thailand and, unlike in your home country, virtually no legal protection or meaningful help from the law.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in Bendix's observation

However, the difference here is that your typical farang is probably wooed into a false sense of superiority (based, no doubt, on him suddenly feeling wealthy and luckier than his fellow man for the first time in his life) and that makes falling a cropper to the scams feel worse, hence the tirades on here.

But it is also wise to recognize that for a host of reasons there are many Thais (and Farangs) who see a new arrival as a Cash Cow.

In part because of what Bendix says, in part because the laws are stacked against the foreigner and in part because the existing practice of Farangs coming to Thailand and throwing the cash about to buy 'relationships, friendships, respect'.

The precedent has been set, expectations are in place and there is always someone willing to milk the Cow.

Of course some people are stupid, I suspect more are culturally disorientated and more than a few simply not vigilant enough.

[Travel2003]

Why so many cynical, angry/bitter members around. Everything is either a scam, rip-off, or gangster/mafia driven.

I've been ripped off here a few times, but also in Europe, Africa & S. America as well.

Just chalk it up to experience, and a learning experience & hopfully the experience has made me wiser so I do not fall into that trap again & move on with my life.

I'm not a member of the "love it or leave it club" & just view these occurances due to my own stupidity.

Those pple who post as a warning, thank you.

I dont think there are that many cynical/bitter members here.

Sure there a a few in the blind man's club (love it or leave it club)

Sure there are some members that are very passionate about some subjects. I know I can be one. As it should be.

Why should it be? Because it makes a good discussion out of it, which I believe sometimes is the best way to see all the various observations.

Some of us are not that skilled with words, and sometimes use a rather poor or bad language. This, of course, creates some flaming. I think that is fair enough, as long as it can be cleared wheter it was the posters intention to be rude, or just expressed him/herself badly in that case.

We are in a forum dealing with this country now. So naturally we discuss issues related to this country. Good and bad.

Being ripped off, and discuss it will make other members be aware of it.

I believe there are different approaches to avoid certain scams/rip offs, depending of what country/culture we are in.

I know for sure that many the posts that have had a certain negative immage, have been very helpfull to me, in order to learn how to deal with certain situations in this country.

I once read that this country is a cultural minefield. In my experience this is spot on, so again a lot of the so call cynical posts here have actually been helpfull.

So to all you cynical, bitter and angry members out there.

Keep up the good work.

I honestly thank you for the education and entertainment.

[PhilHarries]

Why so many cynical, angry/bitter members around. Everything is either a scam, rip-off, or gangster/mafia driven.

Scams and rip-offs abound in Thailand and the thing that gets most people's backs up is that a lot of them seem to be officially endorsed. But I don't think the so called mafias or gangsters are generally involved, they have much richer pickings in mind.

Everyone who sets foot in Thailand gets suckered right from the airport taxi through the restaurants, bars, shops, markets, entertainments right out through the duty free shops. You could think of it as a kind of value added tax that bypasses the government.

The rip offs that p1ss me off are the official double pricings at national parks and other tourist attractions. If the extra money went back into the maintenance and upkeep of the facility I'd have no problem with it but it doesn't. I just ask myself do I really want to visit the place at that price? Yes, then I pay up. No, I'll just walk away.

All the little rip offs in restaurants, bars, shops and taxis are generally pin money and not worth wasting my time arguing over. If it particularly irks me I'll not go back there and will tell people about it but not to the point of boring the pants off folks. But then I'm lucky that I'm in a very good expat deal and don't have to live to a strict budget. Would be a bit different if I had to live on 30,000 Baht a month but then I wouldn't be here in KL where a plate of som tam just cost me 12 Ringgit 90 Sen (about 130 Baht ).

[girlx]

maybe slightly off topic, but here is a cute story illustrating cultural differences: in japan

[Fred Sanford]

thailand has enormous problems when it comes to ripoff and there is no recourse to get cash back

[Furbie]

Let's not deny the fact that there are a lot of scams in Thailand and, unlike in your home country, virtually no legal protection or meaningful help from the law...

You hit the nail on the head with the above, Guesthouse – there is practically no protection for people in Thailand who have been ripped off, and that "practically no" goes to a give up, you'll never get it resolved if you're a tourist. Sure, the West has scams and rip-offs, but there is a system in place to deal with these problems. Sure, in Nigeria you are up a creak, but they don't really bill themselves as a tourist destination now do they – as Thailand does.

To paraphrase what PhilHarries posted, from the government to the guy on the corner, they appear to be working together to let these things happen. The scams and rip-offs do not bother me nearly as much as the governmental lack of response and/or endorsement of these activities. You can see these guys ripping people off right in front of police officers. How can they let fake monks walk around begging for money? How can they let people stand out front of the royal place and say it is closed? How can they charge people 1500 baht for a ride from the airport, and put up signs inside the terminal saying only use this service, others are not safe? How can they set up a booth charging people 2,000 baht for littering, when they removed the garbage cans? What a joke.

As a result, you need to be more on your guard in Thailand – and pay attention to the so-called people who seem to do nothing but complain. Without forums posting all of these issues, how many people would be ripped off? Who is to tell you the proper price of a motorcycle ride, a ride to Pattaya from BKK if not board members and bloggers who live here? And it is not just Westerners who have these issues – Thais suffer too. Look how "police check points" are set up to stop cars really doing nothing wrong? If you think the Thais don't complain about these same issues, you are wrong.

[qwertz]

It comes down to one word IMO.

DISAPPOINTMENT:

If you try to analyse the word you come up with something like broken arrangement.

Almost without exception, for all the cynical, bitter people I've ever heard in LOS and elsewhere, just two causes lay behind their sorry attitude - lost money or lost love.

[GuestHouse]

And let's not forget the bitter expats moaning about their former lives...

I suspect its only a matter of time before Thailand disappoints them in the same way.

[dumspero]

I think Qwertz' point is well taken to the extent that disappointment underlies most of the bitterness out there in the world, and that's probably true with all bitter people, not just bitter expats.

But I also think that the source of the disappointment with expats can be broader than just lost money or lost love. Many people move to another country with naive and unrealistic expectations, generally. Then when they discover the problems their new home has, they focus on them disproportionately.

With cynicism, I find that's often expats who want to seem smart and 'in the know.' But they mistake cynicism for wisdom.

[click2delete]

I'll answer this question.

Short answer: many of us are bitter because as vacationers we are insulated from the stupidity, craftiness, deviousness, ignorance and general laziness of "some" not all, but ###### close to all Thai People. We are tired of the government playing games with us through immigration. Other countries such as Argentina, Panama or even Mexico don't play with their expats, they treat them with respect.

Immigration in those countries are friendly, where here it is clear to almost all that they are not, and probably don't like us much.

I suspect that many of the unhappy expats are living in Pattaya which affords one the unadulterated view of some, not all but too much of the lowlife that Thailand has to offer.

The lowlife come in two flavors, Thai and Farang. We have all seen the drunken Farang either driving a big Fortuner or causing accidents on his motorbike. My favourite is the Farang who has little baby Farang, and proudly displays his little airbag on the front of the bike with no helmet while his fat slob a$$ wears a good strong protective one.

We here in Pattaya get to see firsthand the road accidents due to the stupidy of some Thais and once in a while a Farang. We get to see that many but not all accidents are due to a Thai who drinks himself into a stupor and then climbs into a minibus only to kill a few people along the way. We see the police do almost nothing to these people except give them a place to dry out.

We get to see the corruption firsthand. We experience the lowlife scumbags who shortchange us, charge us extra due to our skin color, steal from us because we aren't Thai as we are just Farang and fair game. We get to see the laziness of the workers firsthand in places such as Tesco or Carrefour.

We get tired of having to take the extra steps to safeguard our money. It is an inconvenience to always have to send my Thai wife in first to ask the price in order to secure the "Thai Price" and not the inflated Farang price.

And a little note to you miserable rots who try to shame us because we gripe about 10 baht here and 5 baht there:

I have a 2 month old baby that I have to provide for, take care of, protect and make sure he is happy - how dare you tell me that I should take money out of my pocket on a daily basis and give it to greedy Thais when it should be securing his future, his education, food in his mouth. You smarmy disgusting people deserve something I cannot write here. I loathe you. I despise you.

If you wish to be stupid, don't chide me because I wish to be careful, don't try to shame me with your stupidity and foolishness. If you enjoy overpaying then continue it by all means, but do not try to lull me into your mental illness, I'll have none of it. Overpay, but know that the Thais who take your money with their toothless grins, laugh at you and at the end of the day as they become convinced that people like you, and people not like you but of your color, are stupid gits who are easily taken. They laugh at you and I detest you.

Would you come to my house and steal from my son's piggy bank?

Where do you draw the line - I suppose if they raped your daughter you'd tell the rest of us to offer up our kin so you can feel better about yourself. Is that what it is, because you have more money than brains, you would like the rest of us to come down to your level?

I also despise you expats who believe the Thai people can do no wrong. That everything they do we must accept because we are in their country.

No decent American believes it is right for an American in America to take advantage of a foreigner. In America it makes us cringe, we wince when we hear of such stories. Here in Thailand it is considered fair game, they do not wince, they laugh at us. It speaks volumes about our values and the lack of some, not all but some Thais.

I suppose you Polly Anna's would tell me how good your meal tasted even though you found out it was smeared with excrement by a Thai who didn't like Farang. Oh they're just playing, it's all part of being an expat so don't complain.

Shut up, I'll complain all I want.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Maestro
Font formatting codes used for entire post removed for better readability.

[dumspero]

click2delete- That's one of the funniest posts I've seen. Not sure if you're on something, or just off it. Either way, a classic.

[girlx]

geez, maybe you should take a holiday!

(click2delete that is)

Edited May 28, 2007 by girlx

[qwertz]

Phew, bravo, click. I'll bet you feel a little better after that!

It is sobering though to learn how foreigners on our own turf feel about the treatment they get.

I guess nobody, nowhere, is perfect.

And I think if you were absolutely fair, you'd admit like me that not all your countrymen are nice to foreigners.

I take your point, except for the excrement, but I can avoid the other unpleasantness as I don't have to live there.

There are scrotes wherever you choose to live IMO.

[donna]

doozy of a rant that was.....

[soundman]

I'll answer this question.

Short answer: many of us are bitter because as vacationers we are insulated from the stupidity, craftiness, deviousness, ignorance and general laziness of "some" not all, but ###### close to all Thai People. We are tired of the government playing games with us through immigration. Other countries such as Argentina, Panama or even Mexico don't play with their expats, they treat them with respect.

Immigration in those countries are friendly, where here it is clear to almost all that they are not, and probably don't like us much.

I suspect that many of the unhappy expats are living in Pattaya which affords one the unadulterated view of some, not all but too much of the lowlife that Thailand has to offer.

The lowlife come in two flavors, Thai and Farang. We have all seen the drunken Farang either driving a big Fortuner or causing accidents on his motorbike. My favourite is the Farang who has little baby Farang, and proudly displays his little airbag on the front of the bike with no helmet while his fat slob a$$ wears a good strong protective one.

We here in Pattaya get to see firsthand the road accidents due to the stupidy of some Thais and once in a while a Farang. We get to see that many but not all accidents are due to a Thai who drinks himself into a stupor and then climbs into a minibus only to kill a few people along the way. We see the police do almost nothing to these people except give them a place to dry out.

We get to see the corruption firsthand. We experience the lowlife scumbags who shortchange us, charge us extra due to our skin color, steal from us because we aren't Thai as we are just Farang and fair game. We get to see the laziness of the workers firsthand in places such as Tesco or Carrefour.

We get tired of having to take the extra steps to safeguard our money. It is an inconvenience to always have to send my Thai wife in first to ask the price in order to secure the "Thai Price" and not the inflated Farang price.

And a little note to you miserable rots who try to shame us because we gripe about 10 baht here and 5 baht there:

I have a 2 month old baby that I have to provide for, take care of, protect and make sure he is happy - how dare you tell me that I should take money out of my pocket on a daily basis and give it to greedy Thais when it should be securing his future, his education, food in his mouth. You smarmy disgusting people deserve something I cannot write here. I loathe you. I despise you.

If you wish to be stupid, don't chide me because I wish to be careful, don't try to shame me with your stupidity and foolishness. If you enjoy overpaying then continue it by all means, but do not try to lull me into your mental illness, I'll have none of it. Overpay, but know that the Thais who take your money with their toothless grins, laugh at you and at the end of the day as they become convinced that people like you, and people not like you but of your color, are stupid gits who are easily taken. They laugh at you and I detest you.

Would you come to my house and steal from my son's piggy bank?

Where do you draw the line - I suppose if they raped your daughter you'd tell the rest of us to offer up our kin so you can feel better about yourself. Is that what it is, because you have more money than brains, you would like the rest of us to come down to your level?

I also despise you expats who believe the Thai people can do no wrong. That everything they do we must accept because we are in their country.

No decent American believes it is right for an American in America to take advantage of a foreigner. In America it makes us cringe, we wince when we hear of such stories. Here in Thailand it is considered fair game, they do not wince, they laugh at us. It speaks volumes about our values and the lack of some, not all but some Thais.

I suppose you Polly Anna's would tell me how good your meal tasted even though you found out it was smeared with excrement by a Thai who didn't like Farang. Oh they're just playing, it's all part of being an expat so don't complain.

Shut up, I'll complain all I want.

Just saving this before the mods delete the original.

Soundman.

[PhilHarries]

And let's not forget the bitter expats moaning about their former lives...

I suspect its only a matter of time before Thailand disappoints them in the same way.

I think GH we are beyond that time. Thailand seems to be getting full of expats who will never be happy wherever they are in the world. Some of them sold up at home to set up shop in Thailand based on a two week holiday and good sound advice from the bloke running F*t G*t beer bar. They suddenly find the 24/7 party ain't all it's cracked up to be but it's too late to go back so they sit there day and night fuming over their lot and blaming it all on everyone else but mainly the Thais.

Click2delete, a question. Did one of your forefathers work as a scriptwriter for a certain Mr Hitler?

[bendix]

The fact that click2delete has a two month old baby that he has to take care of, that he lives in Pattaya, and that he obviously feels trapped there tells us all that we need to know about him, I think.

click2delete, a wise man once said that if you live in the gutter you can't really complain if everything smells of s**t.

I have a picture in my mind of a guy duped, a guy trapped by a bigger brain than his, and now he's frustrated and venting about his life. It's kind of cute.

PS . and I bet he's 5foot 4 or shorter.

[Nibor1945]

doozy of a rant that was.....

I suspect we would have been even more impressed had we not received his "Short answer".

[Jai Dee]

Just saving this before the mods delete the original.

I think it should stay... a perfect example for the OP of this thread.

[a2396]

If someone is telling about an experience that is a negative, and he/she is telling the truth, that is not being cynical. It is likely that some posters here are not being truthfull and just throwing out negative spin stories to amuse themselves and fuel other negative relplies, ie the so-called troll. My comments are related to my 3 years of living in LOS, which for the most part, have been positive. The major porblem area has been in trying to establish relationships with the lovely ladies. It has been almost 100% negative, with outrageous and ridiculous requests for money, from oftentimes acquaintences who are not even girlfriends, and who are not interested in being a girlfriend of mine. I have gotten so I don't trust any of them, unless I am able to verify thier stories and situations on my own accord, which is difficult if not impossible. They seem to think I am Santa Claus. I have never experienced such bold-faced behaviour from women back home.

As for dealings in other areas of daily life here, it is rare that I find someone trying to take advantage of be because I am a Farang. The few times I might have ben overcharged amount to peanuts, ie restaurant, Tuk-tuk, etc. Some posters hollering about being overcharged 50 bht by a taxi driver should get a life.

[torito]

click2delete, a wise man once said that if you live in the gutter you can't really complain if everything smells of s**t.

PS . and I bet he's 5foot 4 or shorter.

What it surprises me is that how long it takes to people to see and understand the crap they claim to exist in this country....

It is like love....first is blind, and once is gone then the truth can be seen...but it take years to some.

bendix....what's wrong with short people by the way? can we still be cool?

Edited May 28, 2007 by torito

[bendix]

bendix....what's wrong with short people by the way? can we still be cool?

No. Impossible. What a silly question

[Hampstead]

I'll answer this question.

Short answer: many of us are bitter because as vacationers we are insulated from the stupidity, craftiness, deviousness, ignorance and general laziness of "some" not all, but ###### close to all Thai People. We are tired of the government playing games with us through immigration. Other countries such as Argentina, Panama or even Mexico don't play with their expats, they treat them with respect.

Immigration in those countries are friendly, where here it is clear to almost all that they are not, and probably don't like us much.

I suspect that many of the unhappy expats are living in Pattaya which affords one the unadulterated view of some, not all but too much of the lowlife that Thailand has to offer.

The lowlife come in two flavors, Thai and Farang. We have all seen the drunken Farang either driving a big Fortuner or causing accidents on his motorbike. My favourite is the Farang who has little baby Farang, and proudly displays his little airbag on the front of the bike with no helmet while his fat slob a$$ wears a good strong protective one.

We here in Pattaya get to see firsthand the road accidents due to the stupidy of some Thais and once in a while a Farang. We get to see that many but not all accidents are due to a Thai who drinks himself into a stupor and then climbs into a minibus only to kill a few people along the way. We see the police do almost nothing to these people except give them a place to dry out.

We get to see the corruption firsthand. We experience the lowlife scumbags who shortchange us, charge us extra due to our skin color, steal from us because we aren't Thai as we are just Farang and fair game. We get to see the laziness of the workers firsthand in places such as Tesco or Carrefour.

We get tired of having to take the extra steps to safeguard our money. It is an inconvenience to always have to send my Thai wife in first to ask the price in order to secure the "Thai Price" and not the inflated Farang price.

And a little note to you miserable rots who try to shame us because we gripe about 10 baht here and 5 baht there:

I have a 2 month old baby that I have to provide for, take care of, protect and make sure he is happy - how dare you tell me that I should take money out of my pocket on a daily basis and give it to greedy Thais when it should be securing his future, his education, food in his mouth. You smarmy disgusting people deserve something I cannot write here. I loathe you. I despise you.

If you wish to be stupid, don't chide me because I wish to be careful, don't try to shame me with your stupidity and foolishness. If you enjoy overpaying then continue it by all means, but do not try to lull me into your mental illness, I'll have none of it. Overpay, but know that the Thais who take your money with their toothless grins, laugh at you and at the end of the day as they become convinced that people like you, and people not like you but of your color, are stupid gits who are easily taken. They laugh at you and I detest you.

Would you come to my house and steal from my son's piggy bank?

Where do you draw the line - I suppose if they raped your daughter you'd tell the rest of us to offer up our kin so you can feel better about yourself. Is that what it is, because you have more money than brains, you would like the rest of us to come down to your level?

I also despise you expats who believe the Thai people can do no wrong. That everything they do we must accept because we are in their country.

No decent American believes it is right for an American in America to take advantage of a foreigner. In America it makes us cringe, we wince when we hear of such stories. Here in Thailand it is considered fair game, they do not wince, they laugh at us. It speaks volumes about our values and the lack of some, not all but some Thais.

I suppose you Polly Anna's would tell me how good your meal tasted even though you found out it was smeared with excrement by a Thai who didn't like Farang. Oh they're just playing, it's all part of being an expat so don't complain.

Shut up, I'll complain all I want.

Why oh Why do guys like you choose PATTAYA !!!

Of all the most vile places to live in thailand or even asia, PATTAYA beats them all

Some foreigners are very much used to this way of life in thailand as you describe, others find the place a hel_l hole and yet we all have a choice!!

We all can see what THAILAND is really like after one day , one week or one month of living here

Those of us who stay do say in the full knowledge of what Thailand is really like with the intensity of corruption, the use of the class system, the racism against foreigners

You either live in the system of Thailand and enjoy your life or you fight the system and become one frustrated guy with one hel_l of a chip on his shoulder

You seem by far too intelligent to let the thai cultural system and that of the lick kissing the thai's by pathetic foreigners living in Thailand to deeply affect you

Edited May 28, 2007 by Hampstead