Pidgin English

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I don't post in this sub-forum that often and I'm not sure it's the right place for it, if it isn't then can a friendly (that would be all of them) Mod please move it.

Anyhoo, I live in Scotland with my wife (who is Thai). Occasionally we meet people who have been to Thailand or have a Thai partner - now when these people speak to me they seem normal enough. But when they speak to my wife they quickly turn into some sort of Victorian explorer in darkest Africa.

Okay, I need to give an example. We were coming out a cash and carry, one of those places where they check your receipt against your products - as the dude was checking our receipts he asked me if my wife was Thai. I replied yes, on saying this he turned to my wife and said, "My wife from Thailand" I mean, what's wrong with the "is"? Would it really hurt to speak normally?

IMHO this is incredibly patronising. People should not presume that because someone is Thai they do not have the ability to understand as complicated words as "is"!

The thing is if you only ever hear people talk like this then how are you supposed to be able to speak English correctly - people do learn English from speaking to other people after all.

Is it just me that is irritated by this?

[jdinasia]

Nope ... doesn't bother me ay all!, but I'm not in Scotland

[The Dan Sai Kid]

The thing is that there is no point to it. It's more helpful to speak correctly and clearly (not easy in Scotland for the second one).

[jdinasia]

Well my initial thought was how could anyone that wasn't a scot know it was pidgin English?

[Lickey]

The one that annoys me is falangs who speak to their GFs in baby talk, and they end up speaking the same, how are they supposed to learn english if spoken to like a baby??

[jetjock]

I agree with you that speaking pidgen to a Thai is not doing them any favors in helping them with their English and can be a bit of a put down to a Thai that understands proper English. I will have to restrain myself on this subject since it is one of my pet peeves and unfortunately is almost the unofficial language of the state of Hawaii where I reside part of the year. Even though the locals are taught proper English in the schools, the majority of them continue to speak pidgen english mixed with a few Hawaiin words . The pidgen is so strong here that it is sometimes even difficult for me to keep track of what they are talking about. We have a poor public education system in the islands and then with the added problem of pidgen english, most of the locals are pretty much limited to blue collar or tourist jobs here in the islands without any chance of getting a really good job or job on the mainland.

[Jet Gorgon]

Ching ching, you think same same me, DSK. You good man mak mak. Now we go make shop for beer.

[Prakanong]

I don't post in this sub-forum that often and I'm not sure it's the right place for it, if it isn't then can a friendly (that would be all of them) Mod please move it.

Anyhoo, I live in Scotland with my wife (who is Thai). Occasionally we meet people who have been to Thailand or have a Thai partner - now when these people speak to me they seem normal enough. But when they speak to my wife they quickly turn into some sort of Victorian explorer in darkest Africa.

Okay, I need to give an example. We were coming out a cash and carry, one of those places where they check your receipt against your products - as the dude was checking our receipts he asked me if my wife was Thai. I replied yes, on saying this he turned to my wife and said, "My wife from Thailand" I mean, what's wrong with the "is"? Would it really hurt to speak normally?

IMHO this is incredibly patronising. People should not presume that because someone is Thai they do not have the ability to understand as complicated words as "is"!

The thing is if you only ever hear people talk like this then how are you supposed to be able to speak English correctly - people do learn English from speaking to other people after all.

Is it just me that is irritated by this?

OK confession time - I have been guilty of this and also hate it.

I was actually doing it one time to my best friends kids who are half English and half Japanese.

My pal pointed it out to me in a very embarrassing way and I never forgot that and it is true, "They do speak better English than me".

[Prakanong]

The one that annoys me is falangs who speak to their GFs in baby talk, and they end up speaking the same, how are they supposed to learn english if spoken to like a baby??

I fell out with a pal one day for various reasons but one thing that drove me and the ex up the wall that day was because of the way he was speaking to his current beau in baby talk for about 4 bloody hours.

He had been in Thailand 4 full years by that time and used baby talk all the time - even to other peoples partners who spoke very good English.

I travel to places like India, Korea, PI etc with Thai colleagues and in conversations with guy's we have met in the hotel exec lounges etc everyone has spoken normally to my colleagues - the only place I have noticed pidgin is in Thailand or the UK.

[BambinA]

I agree with you that speaking pidgen to a Thai is not doing them any favors in helping them with their English and can be a bit of a put down to a Thai that understands proper English.

Too true.Thanks god i have never met any farang who speaks pidgin to me, although my English is not so good.

If you farangs want to speak to Thais ,feel free to speak perfectly accent.We Thais may ask you to decrease your speed.But do not degrade.

[Roy Jing]

I'm with you on this one Dan Sai Kid. It bloody irritates me.

My wife has been living in Australia for about 17 years and she understands english quite well, yet I still hear people talking to her in pidgeon english, including some of our best friends.

When I have asked our friends why they speak like this they have replied that they were unaware they were doing it.

Maybe they are subconsciously copying the way that she speaks as I know she does leave out some little words in her sentences. They might think it is easier for her to understand,but as you mentioned I wish they wouldn"t speak this way, as it only makes mastering the language that more difficult.

Roy

[Gary A]

Unfortunately, I'm one of the guilty ones. I am trying to get over the bad habit but it is difficult. I think it is done because I try to make myself understood with the least possible effort. I'm sure that when my wife and I are talking, the Thais and the English speakers struggle to understand us.

[Thaddeus]

Me go hospital, get para, have hurt in head.

I am guilty of doing this with wifey sometimes and I do have to keep myself in check. But the one that really gets to me is when we have a transient visitor in town who is staying with the family for ten days and speaks to everyone like that, including the farangs.

(reminds me of a sketch........

"What, me doctor"

"No, me doctor, you Jane" ........ )

//edit/Python

Edited May 30, 2007 by Thaddeus

[Crossy]

OK, I admit to it too.

Not often these days, the darlings' English is quite good now. I have my dad to thank for her improvement, he phones every week and talks at normal speed in his Wigan drawl, she now understands 90% of what he says (sometimes more than I do)

BUT sometimes it is vital to get the meaning over in a simple and unambiguous manner, leaving out superfluous words and just using the essentials helps.

[Jet Gorgon]

My pal pointed it out to me in a very embarrassing way and I never forgot that and it is true, "They do speak better English than me".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. They do speak English better than I do. I hope you are not an English teacher.

[Heng]

Hehe, yeah this one is rather amusing. I've found more than a few falangs continue to pidgin even after we've been conversating in English for a few minutes. Some will convert to standard English but many have it so ingrained that that's the only way they'll speak. Sometimes I'll switch between 'native speaker' and joining them in 'pidgin/bargirl speak' for fun as well.

Thailand good! Pumpui pumpui!

Edited May 30, 2007 by Heng

[steveromagnino]

My pal pointed it out to me in a very embarrassing way and I never forgot that and it is true, "They do speak better English than me".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. They do speak English better than I do. I hope you are not an English teacher.

as a 1/2 Thai i get it quite a lot; usually from someone with a Thai GF or wife.

'you you english good na' type stuff. No kidding, I couldn't speak any Thai until I was like 20! Then on top of that, in sales meetings we have sales reps from dodgy expat magazines talking like that to my boss who is full Thai but studied in UK since she was 5; has a perfect upper class swanky accent.... do these people totally judge us on just appearance that 'because we are Thai we cannot speak anything but bar girl english?'

I do recall fondly taking a sociologist (Thai) to the Thermae as she had heard so much about it. Educated in USA, but she can do a nice BG ungrit. I recall her having a discussion with some American financier on the prowl (she was quite nice looking as well, well by Thermae standards)

'Allan Greensa-pan him bad bad not good for USA economy. Him move interet rate far too mutt; 50 basit point, him not know his balant of trade from his housing bubbun.'

She had the guy enthralled 'wow these bar girls know quite a bit about economics and the world'

[larvidchr]

OK, I admit to it too.

Not often these days, the darlings' English is quite good now. I have my dad to thank for her improvement, he phones every week and talks at normal speed in his Wigan drawl, she now understands 90% of what he says (sometimes more than I do)

BUT sometimes it is vital to get the meaning over in a simple and unambiguous manner, leaving out superfluous words and just using the essentials helps.

Yes that is the case for my girlfriend and me to, when I met her she spoke pidgin english, and it is damned hard to get away from, i try to speak normally to teach her, but at times it is more importent to get daily life to function and get messages across in a way i know she understands, this benefits us both, this is a work in progress, and in a partnership it is vital somtimes to be sure you dont have your lines crossed, I could be holy about it and refuse to talk pidgin, but then sometimes even simple things would lead to her beeing fustrated and me to, and she would not understand half of what I was trying to get across. And it dont make it any easyer when English is not your own native language.

As for the English native speakers, dont get up on to high a horse, I dont meet many that speak any other languages, and if you started to learn one you would sound pretty pidgin in the beginning, and the natives of the language you was trying to learn would have to simplyfi their speach for you to understand.

I dont take it to serius, I am damned proud of how good she allready speaks English I can only wish that I will be able to speak Thai as good one day.

I do however agree that you should never speak pidgin to sombody whos skills you dont know, but start out with proper English.

Have a nice day.

Kind regards

Edited May 30, 2007 by larvidchr

[Prakanong]

My pal pointed it out to me in a very embarrassing way and I never forgot that and it is true, "They do speak better English than me".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. They do speak English better than I do. I hope you are not an English teacher.

No I am not an English teacher and doubt I will ever become one unless disaster strikes and its the only option ;-))

[bendix]

If you farangs want to speak to Thais ,feel free to speak perfectly accent.We Thais may ask you to decrease your speed.But do not degrade.

Bambina, asking a farang not to degrade in Thailand, is a bit like asking milk not to go sour in the sun.

[donna]

ive lived here for nearly 8 years now and dont THINK that ive ever resorted to pidgin english with any thais.

the only way a thai is going to learn english is to include all of the joining words in our sentences. the staff i work with now listen to me speaking in my 'natural' voice all the time. i do slow down and repeat things in thai for them if they dont get what i am talking about and i can usually judge this by their facial expressions. but for the most part i speak as i do to anyone else.

working in patong, i see a lot of 'stuff' and the men that 'sign' to their girls and speak in 'stoopidish' drive me nuts.

'we go eat? yummy yummy?' (rubbing their usually over expanded belly)

'me tired now' (with a hand to his mouth simulating a yawn)

'me want go home sleep' (with two hands in the 'prayer' position beside his head)

its pathetic really. i find it quite patronising.

if the situation were reversed, the last thing i would want is for a thai to cut out words when they were talking to me. i would never be able to get a grasp on the language!

[Insight]

Ching ching, you think same same me, DSK. You good man mak mak. Now we go make shop for beer.

and so cringe-worthy at the same time.

It's when foreigners start speaking like this to each other all hope is lost, and with deep regret I've seen it happen.

[WaiWai]

working in patong, i see a lot of 'stuff' and the men that 'sign' to their girls and speak in 'stoopidish' drive me nuts.

'we go eat? yummy yummy?' (rubbing their usually over expanded belly)

'me tired now' (with a hand to his mouth simulating a yawn)

'me want go home sleep' (with two hands in the 'prayer' position beside his head)

Good grief ...

It should be possible to communicate in basic English without resorting to baby talk. Just use simple structures and vocabulary.

Treating "partners" like children; in quite a few instances choosing "partners" who are young enough to be a son/daugher/grandchild, who often physically resemble adolescents or even children is really rather disturbing .

[mijan24]

I agree with you that speaking pidgen to a Thai is not doing them any favors in helping them with their English and can be a bit of a put down to a Thai that understands proper English.

Too true. Thank god I have never met a farang who spoke pidgin to me, my English is not perfect but I am working on ways to improve it.

When farangs speak to Thais they should feel free to speak naturally. Thais may ask you to decrease your speed (speak slower). But don't degrade (speak naturally).

BambinA I agree with you 100% and make a point of speaking to my Thai wife (of 9 years) naturally, ensuring she understands and ask that she takes the same approach when Thai is used between us. It works for us YES instead of Pidgin Engliish Slow and Natural not only sounds better it is more willing accepted ( I believe).

Edited May 30, 2007 by mijan24

[peter991]

You also see the OPPOSITE of this at times.

Location: Khon Kaen Airport. Scene: A farang rushed into the Airport, noticed the Arrivals/Departure screens were not working/turned off, raced over to the Thai Airways Information Desk and said the following at 100MPH: "My girlfriend Miss XXXX is arriving on Thai Airways TG1040 which is due from Bangkok's Don Muang Airport this morning. Can you tell me what time the flight will be arriving?"

The girl behind the counter stared at him, unable to comprehend what he said.

I overheard the conversation and translated for him: (speaking slowly) "That time plane Bangkok get here?"

The girl behind the counter smiled and said: "Plane Bangkok 15 minutes."

Peter

[donna]

peter991, i would assume that this is probably more to do with the speed at which this was spoken.

also, why do some people have to yell when they speak pidgin?

[Dakhar]

My wife does not speak in pidgeon.... but for some reason writes in pidgeon....

I have never spoken to her in pidgeon, never even thought it was necessary.

The sis-in-law..... maybe we do, I have nover given it much thought. My only goal is to communicate... I really do not care if it is perferct or not.

[jackmuu]

It is not just a Thai thing. I work all over the world with people of all nationalities and we are in a job where although English is the main comms language it is not spoken or understood that well by some. There are so many accents flying around it can get quite difficult for some people. Sometimes I find it better to cut out joining words and slow down to make myself understood. Many, many times I have been told that I am very easy to undertstand.

Having said that, my wiife and I only spoke Thai together until very recently and since I have started teaching her English, I am trying to get away from bad habits. I especialy hate the Asian expresiion 'same same".

[Ulysses G.]

Ching ching, you think same same me, DSK. You good man mak mak. Now we go make shop for beer.

and so cringe-worthy at the same time.

It's when foreigners start speaking like this to each other all hope is lost, and with deep regret I've seen it happen.

They mostly seem to be Brits for some reason.

[peter991]

also, why do some people have to yell when they speak pidgin?

Sadly, many visitors to Thailand think if they yell, a Thai person - who can't understand English will be able to understand them.

The secret is to speak English slowly and clearly and LOOK at the person you are speaking to - some times they can lip read.

Considering English is not an easy language to learn, it is amazing we westerners get by with relatively few problems.

You: Speak your question in English.

Thai: Listens to your English - translates what you said into Thai. Brain processes the information in Thai. Brain answers in Thai. Response translated into English. English answer given.

Peter