Are The Children Safe?

[click2delete]

My son is 2 feet from me as I sit at my computer. He is sleeping on my desk. I have no idea which pollutants made it 2 blocks to my house off Sukhumvhit. I can control the water he drinks, but have no idea what will be in the food he will eat.

I brought a 300 dollar car seat here from America for him. We could still be killed by a motorcycle - just ask the poor bastaards who just died because a bus overturned trying to avoid a motorcycle that crossed its path - he should have run over the motorcycle.

Where will he go to school? I don't want him growing up Thai. Well, he can grow up a little Thai but I do not want some automaton for a son who learns to be blindly obedient, never question authority, and memorize instead of think.

If I see his mother turning him into a little prince I'll put the Kaibash on that pronto. How could I put him on one of those private school buses? You know the kind, the big box like vans with 12 kids all loose inside. They have seat belts but don't use them. Do you think I'll hand him over to the beer breathed driver to take a jaunt down Sukhumvhit on the way to school? Hardly.

There are too many morons running around in states of drunkeness ready to cause mayhem. How do you protect him?

How do you tell a young boy that while every other Nudnik with gonads and testosterone is having fun on motorbikes weaving in and out of traffic - that he cannot? How do you tell him that he will never be allowed to ride a motorbike?

How do you walk with a toddler when this place has exposed wires everywhere? Forget about baby-proofing the house, how do you baby-proof the country?

[Maestro]

Click2delete, if you love your son – and I have no reason to believe that you don’t – take him out of Thailand as quickly as you can, bring him, together with his mother, to a safe country, to your home country. It is the only correct thing to do for your son. If you don’t do it, your are letting him down and if you have a conscience – on which point there may be room for doubt – it will trouble you for the rest of your life.

Be a responsible father! Do the right thing for your son! He wouldn’t be able to grow up normally in Thailand with you fretting over him like this all the time. Children can feel a father’s unhappiness and he would feel guilty; he would consider himself responsible for your unhappiness. This could damage him for life. You, of all people, a physician specialised in psychiatry, should know this.

--

Maestro

[Lickey]

Click, there was a radio programme years ago called "Desert Island Disc" by the BBC in UK, they would have a celebrity on there to name his/her 8 favourite music tracks and why, if ever they got stranded on a desert island, so thinking of your "mollycuddled" son, you might think that "A Boy Named Sue" by Johnny Cash would make him tough and strong, what would be your next 7 please??

[ThaiGoon]

[Maestro]

When you are rolling on the floor, laughing out loud, it would be but considerate if you indicated which of the preceding posts put you in this exalted state, perhaps by quoting a few words from the respective post – but please, not the entire, lengthy post, lengthy, that is, if it is the post that I think it is.

I know, as you were writing your post you probably thought it would show up immediately after the post that tickled your funny bone, but on a hot topic like this other posts can get ahead of yours. Happens to me occasionally, too.

--------------

Maestro

[ThaiGoon]

When you are rolling on the floor, laughing out loud, it would be but considerate if you indicated which of the preceding posts put you in this exalted state, perhaps by quoting a few words from the respective post – but please, not the entire, lengthy post, lengthy, that is, if it is the post that I think it is.

I know, as you were writing your post you probably thought it would show up immediately after the post that tickled your funny bone, but on a hot topic like this other posts can get ahead of yours. Happens to me occasionally, too.

--------------

Maestro

Yeah, I meant that for your post in #2. Actually, Clickie's OP did make me roll on the floor laughing a bit as well.

[teacup]

Why couldn’t you roll on to your right arm also? Urr something wrong? Seems to me it looks as if you’re choking on the floor!

[Maizefarmer]

My son is 2 feet from me as I sit at my computer. He is sleeping on my desk. I have no idea which pollutants made it 2 blocks to my house off Sukhumvhit. I can control the water he drinks, but have no idea what will be in the food he will eat.

I brought a 300 dollar car seat here from America for him. We could still be killed by a motorcycle - just ask the poor bastaards who just died because a bus overturned trying to avoid a motorcycle that crossed its path - he should have run over the motorcycle.

Where will he go to school? I don't want him growing up Thai. Well, he can grow up a little Thai but I do not want some automaton for a son who learns to be blindly obedient, never question authority, and memorize instead of think.

If I see his mother turning him into a little prince I'll put the Kaibash on that pronto. How could I put him on one of those private school buses? You know the kind, the big box like vans with 12 kids all loose inside. They have seat belts but don't use them. Do you think I'll hand him over to the beer breathed driver to take a jaunt down Sukhumvhit on the way to school? Hardly.

There are too many morons running around in states of drunkeness ready to cause mayhem. How do you protect him?

How do you tell a young boy that while every other Nudnik with gonads and testosterone is having fun on motorbikes weaving in and out of traffic - that he cannot? How do you tell him that he will never be allowed to ride a motorbike?

How do you walk with a toddler when this place has exposed wires everywhere? Forget about baby-proofing the house, how do you baby-proof the country?

I dont think your concerns are much different from many other farangs in Thailand with young kids. Your concerns are similar to those I had in respect of my 2 kids growing up in Thailand.

On balance though, I am glad they did grow up here - and not for example in the States. Although I have to add, I deliberately kept them away from th hustle and bustle of Bangkok, and settled in a very rural area of Thailand. That may well not be a practical option for many (because of work committments) - in which case, is there much differance to say growing up in LA or NY? Nope, on balance the risks are in many respects just as worrying (as you mention - idiots on motorbikes, pollution ect ..)..

In hindsight I belive I made the best choice in keeping the kids in Thailand. The one notable example is not so much that they grew up as Thai's per say, but that they grew up with old fashoined Thai values for lack of a better description - which we both made a big effort to instill in them. I don;t know how valid that argument will be in Thailand in 10 years time - it's a fast changing enviroment which is adopting many of the modern values of the West - at the expense of what I feel are/were the far beter values of family, tradition, sense of communtiy, respect and so on.... The West has become so materialy oreintated,while Thai society (especially out in the country areas), has retained a lot of those values.

In 10 years time? -good question. Hard to say.

On balance - yup, Thailand is still my first choice (as opposed to the hustle and bustle of the West).

MF

[teejay]

I have the same fears OP.

I'm 29 but think I will marry within a few years and have kids a few years after that....

I'm american/thai my gf is swedish, and we've already agreed that if we have children it would be nice to just relax for the first few years or so in thailand (phuket, maybe) and then when school age hits, boom we're outta here to sweden, the usa, or hong kong (where I have another residence)... money is not an issue, and I don't want my kids growing up here when they get to school age (no offense intended for those who are doing it successfully, it's just my own choice/opinion). Maybe a year or two of thai school to learn thai and definitely not more than that.

It's all about opportunity, and while many members will tell you that thai schooling is great and that the same opportunities are available... but the fact of the matter is that a private school education in the west will take you farther and higher in this world than any education in thailand (on average, i'm sure somebody will have a great success story to counter this line of thought). I'll take IVY league over CHula for my kid anyday, no offense to Chula. And Andover/Exeter over ISB anyday... but if you want your kid to live in a village with dear old dad and mom and become hmmm... can't seem to think of a career for a village-born luk-kreung with a village school education.... then good on you... but my kids come first, as my parents did the same for me...

again please no flaming, i've said many times no offense to others who choose to raise kids here, it's just my choice.... others may have differing opinions...

[DrFisher]

Click2delete, if you love your son – and I have no reason to believe that you don’t – take him out of Thailand as quickly as you can, bring him, together with his mother, to a safe country, to your home country. It is the only correct thing to do for your son. If you don’t do it, your are letting him down and if you have a conscience – on which point there may be room for doubt – it will trouble you for the rest of your life.

Be a responsible father! Do the right thing for your son! He wouldn’t be able to grow up normally in Thailand with you fretting over him like this all the time. Children can feel a father’s unhappiness and he would feel guilty; he would consider himself responsible for your unhappiness. This could damage him for life. You, of all people, a physician specialised in psychiatry, should know this.

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Maestro

As a physician specialized in psychiatry I agree with you. Life is not perfect and no place, no country is safe we do the best that we can. I send my daughter to the best school in Chiang Mai and I make sure she has the best teachers, we feed her the healthiest food available and we take her to the best doctors, we do not treat her like a princess (all thought she is our little princess) perhaps some of the wiring hangs out here and there but it does in New York city as well. There is no place on this earth you can escape a bomb blast or a bus crash we take our chances when we get out of bed. Love and kindness go a long way with a child, and explanation of why we don't smoke or eat french fries and ice cream for dinner goes a long way. Children will trust your wisdom and warning as long as you tell them the truth and don't let them see you do anything you have told them not to do or your credibility is shot.

[Heng]

If you're indeed set on staying here... buy a home near one of the international schools, fill your yard with trees, properly maintain your homes' and cars' air conditioning systems, drink bottled water, hire a cook and properly train her in hygenic cooking/serving, etc. and despite the general trends in the environment here, you'll be breathing cleaning air, drinking cleaner water, and eating cleaner food than most folks on the planet. Have a driver or yourself drive them to and from school. Make their first car a tough truck or SUV. Don't forget to take them on the bus and perhaps try a motorcycle ride once in awhile too though, just so they know how the other half lives and so that they appreciate what they have.

As for child safety, IMO it's what your own kids decide to get into themselves (anywhere in the world) as they grow up (and that you often can do little about) that are the real dangers to themselves.

edit: anywhere in the world

Edited May 30, 2007 by Heng

[cm-happy]

Click I'm confused!

In another thread "Cynical, Bitter/Angry Members you claimed to reside in Pattaya.

Now Its sukhumvhit? Is there a Sukhumvhit in Pattaya? or refering to the one in BKK?

Anyway back on topic.

Do as your conscience dictates, taking into consideration your wife.

[Tywais]

Is there a Sukhumvhit in Pattaya?

Yes.

[jayjayjayjay]

Click I'm confused!

In another thread "Cynical, Bitter/Angry Members you claimed to reside in Pattaya.

Now Its sukhumvhit? Is there a Sukhumvhit in Pattaya? or refering to the one in BKK?

Anyway back on topic.

Do as your conscience dictates, taking into consideration your wife.

If memory serves me right, Sukhumvit Road starts at the Expressway next to Sukhumvit Soi 1 AND continues right through Pattaya!!!! Check a map...

[meemiathai]

Click2delete, if you love your son – and I have no reason to believe that you don’t – take him out of Thailand as quickly as you can, bring him, together with his mother, to a safe country, to your home country. It is the only correct thing to do for your son. If you don’t do it, your are letting him down and if you have a conscience – on which point there may be room for doubt – it will trouble you for the rest of your life.

Be a responsible father! Do the right thing for your son! He wouldn’t be able to grow up normally in Thailand with you fretting over him like this all the time. Children can feel a father’s unhappiness and he would feel guilty; he would consider himself responsible for your unhappiness. This could damage him for life. You, of all people, a physician specialised in psychiatry, should know this.

--

Maestro

Fully agreed! Don't let him get in touch with anything thai, and this includes thai people. Show him in his early ages pointing out on the atlas at thailand what a shit hole it is and never go there. He will be safe!

[meemiathai]

I send my daughter to the best school in Chiang Mai and I make sure she has the best teachers, we feed her the healthiest food available and we take her to the best doctors, we do not treat her like a princess

Sorry but I find this funny.

[BigA]

I voted. I felt that my Luk Kruengs were not safe so I left. This could change.

[samran]

I can't relate to the OP.

What does it have to do with Luuk Krungs in particular? Aren't we talking about all kids here (if that is your concern?).

I'm here for work and the fact that by working here, we can afford for my wife to stay home to be a full time mum. So work brings on a very positive lifestyle benefit. This is already a massive headstart over what I'd be able to acheive in the west were we'd both be working (only I slog my guts out now )

After that, who knows. I take the best of both worlds approach to these things. You can only control the risks in your own life, and mitigate them.

Outside risks, you can't really do much about these things. If there are a dozen things here that can harm my daughter, there would be a dozen other things back in my home country that would also harm my daugher, of which I'd have absolutely no control over. I don't see outside dangers being any higher or lower here than they would be at home.

[Nibor1945]

I hope I take the same precautions as any other responsible parent, we live in a rural gated Thai village/estate that has 24 hour security. Apart from commonsense protection, I suspect Over-protection would be as irresponsible in the long term as lack of protection would be in the short term. My children attend a small Thai private school and use it's minibus transport to & from school, I feel they are safer (under those circumstances) than they would be in my "Home country".

[DirkGently]

It's normal to worry! However, some seem to be taking it to far. The air of any major city is crap. BKK just happens to be worse than some.

As for schooling I can only agree. I would not let my child be turned into a mindless drone that can only repeat and not invent.

As for 'boy named sue' syndrome, i find myself agreeing. One of my most vivid memories of dad was him standing over me as I sobbed after falling from my bike and cutting my shin. He told me not to be a wuss and get back out to my friends before they start laughing. I did and have been hurt physically in later life and brushed it off.

[meemiathai]

I hope I take the same precautions as any other responsible parent, we live in a rural gated Thai village/estate that has 24 hour security. Apart from commonsense protection, I suspect Over-protection would be as irresponsible in the long term as lack of protection would be in the short term. My children attend a small Thai private school and use it's minibus transport to & from school, I feel they are safer (under those circumstances) than they would be in my "Home country".

Exactly! I would say it is even worse.

Unfortunately this is happening everywhere.

Nothing can be gained without losing something.

[soundman]

I consider my daughter in a slightly safer & in a much better family environment here in Thailand than in my home country of Australia. I think it has a lot to do with the family structure in Thailand.

My family in Thailand pays the utmost attention to the kids (mine & my brother in laws). There is always somebody around to watch them, whether it be parents, grandparents, housekeepers, live in nanny or relatives. All are reponsible & seem to place much value on supervision. There is always somebody to take the kids to school & pick them up.

In Australia, both parents would be working, you'de see the grandparents once a fortnight, & your kids would have to take public transport to school everyday from a very young age.

My initial impression of the school we chose for our daughter is very good too. I have heard many nightmare stories about the schooling system in Thailand, however, for not too much money a good private school can be found. Classroom size is 25 - 30 students with 2 - 3 teachers assigned per class. The school has security on all exits at all times.

Sure traffic can be dangerous in Thailand. It can be just as dangerous in Australia too with boguns tearing around in their hotted up V8's doing burnouts & generally louting around, losing control & cleaning up anything on the sidewalk.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[qualtrough]

OP, I think it is time for you to go home.

[jackmuu]

I certainly wouldn't want my kids educated here, maybe to grow up here for a few year but when the time for serious study comes it will be back to civilisation.

Thailand is ok for fun, but for raising kids I would put it low on the list, that's why most affluent thai send their kids to study overseas. Who want's a kid to start work in Thailand, in an environment where youth is taken over experience, where you are encouraged not to question superiors and bow and scrape to authority.

My kids will not suffer that indignity. Drones indeed, how can you relax in your older years knowing that you didn't give your kids the tools to survive?

[GuestHouse]

As a Thai friend of mine once commented. He didn't care about the environment, road safety, the school system or the decay in public behaviour - Until he had a son, then all these things started to really matter.

Safety was always one of the greatest concerns we had for our children in Thailand, moving away from Thailand has been moving away from a number of risks we found unacceptable.

Its not just the risks, it is the callaous disregard for safety of self and others. Almost that it is something alien and un Thai to be concerned about these things.

[orchis]

Move to Hua hin. Since you have clear knowledge of how detrimental the environment in Pattaya is not only to your child and your wife but also to yourself, a physician specialised in psychiatry, it smacks of negligence and irresponsibility to stay there any longer. Get out now you still can or your child will forever blame you.

[chanchao]

I started a very similar poll a couple months ago in the family forum. Resulted in some excellent discussion.

(Though no reason why we shouldn't do it all over again here of course.

Here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=103803

[Neeranam]

Once I had a girlfriend who was the daughter of a govt. minister. She was 24 years old and I took her on her first ever boat, bus and taxi. What a thrill she got travelling down soi Ekkamai on the nuber 23 red bus! Her father had treated her like a princess with her own bodyguard and driver. It doesn't matter how well you look after them, they can still escape and mix around with 'bad boys'. Kids rebel. What was that song by the guy at woodstock?

"Hey Pop, my girlfrind's only 3, she's got her own vdo phone and she's a taking LSD".

[roamer]

You can't be there 24/7, or if you are that also has its downside. As far as Thailand being unsafe, bad things can happen anywhere, every parents worse nightmare can come true, check this out, a mere 142 million hits in the last few weeks.

http://www.findmadeleine.comCheck this.

[meemiathai]

Once I had a girlfriend who was the daughter of a govt. minister. She was 24 years old and I took her on her first ever boat, bus and taxi. What a thrill she got travelling down soi Ekkamai on the nuber 23 red bus! Her father had treated her like a princess with her own bodyguard and driver. It doesn't matter how well you look after them, they can still escape and mix around with 'bad boys'. Kids rebel. What was that song by the guy at woodstock?

"Hey Pop, my girlfrind's only 3, she's got her own vdo phone and she's a taking LSD".

I think the girlfriend's father was being irresponsible. He should have had a body guard for her daughter all her life. He shouldn't have let her known you and got on a bus.