หรือ Or รื Or Not Used

[soundman]

After some feedback in another thread I have put the question word "reu" to the test...

After intensive use for a couple of days this is my analysis:

The question word หรือ is used for written expression.

กินข้าว หรือ ยัง or กินข้าว หรือ เปล่า

gin kao reu yung or gin kao reu bplao

Have you eaten yet? (greeting or literally) or Are you eating (with us) or not?

The question word รึ is used for general speaking.

กินข้าว รึ ยัง or กินข้าว รึ เปล่า

gin kao reu (short reu sound) yung or gin kao reu (short reu sound) bplao

The question word หรือ is more often than not dropped when speaking with family & friends.

กินข้าวยัง or กินข้าวเปล่า

gin kao yung or gin kao bplao

I may still be incorrect or only listening to local speaking patterns so if anyone has any comments or different opinions please post.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[meadish_sweetball]

Fair assessment in general I think.

A couple of additional points:

The shortest, most familiar form (dropping the หรือ/รึ) is more common among younger people than older people.

The initial consonant cluster ปล in เปล่า is reduced to just ป in the shortest form.

หรือ in the spoken language often comes out as เหลอ and หลอ (as in จริงหรือ = จิงเหลอ/จิงหลอ)

[CSS]

Fair assessment in general I think.

A couple of additional points:

The shortest, most familiar form (dropping the หรือ/รึ) is more common among younger people than older people.

The initial consonant cluster ปล in เปล่า is reduced to just ป in the shortest form.

หรือ in the spoken language often comes out as เหลอ and หลอ (as in จริงหรือ = จิงเหลอ/จิงหลอ)

Meadish, glad to see you have Thai script again. Did you fix the computer problem?

Thanks for the helpful response. It was probably just a typing error by the OP but for clarification just in case it wasn't, I wanted to point out that he wrote รื (a long vowel sound) whereas Meadish wrote (what I also understand to be correct) รึ with a short vowel. Other than that both posts are helpful in sorting that word and it's common uses out.

[mangkorn]

หรือ in the spoken language often comes out as เหลอ and หลอ (as in จริงหรือ = จิงเหลอ/จิงหลอ)

(Unicode UTF-8 Alert):

Good one Meadish. I nearly always hear it pronounced as หลอ (especially as in จิงหลอ or in the shorter version, where the จิง is dropped but understood).

[CSS]

Fair assessment in general I think.

A couple of additional points:

The shortest, most familiar form (dropping the หรือ/รึ) is more common among younger people than older people.

The initial consonant cluster ปล in เปล่า is reduced to just ป in the shortest form.

หรือ in the spoken language often comes out as เหลอ and หลอ (as in จริงหรือ = จิงเหลอ/จิงหลอ)

The contraction of เปล่า to just ป is always the first thing I notice when I'm speaking to someone from Bangkok or the Central region. Particularly teens to twenties seem to use it profusely. Whereas in the Essan and North I rarely ever hear it. I think that could because it's a casual informal speach pattern and when youth from the North and Essan are speaking casually/informally they tend to speak in Northern or Essan. Whereas when they speak Standard Thai it tends to only be in more formal settings (like a school classroom). The exception would be those from the North/Essan that studied or worked in Bangkok.

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes CSS, I think you are right about your observation, although here in Chiang Mai the kids tend to take after เด็กเทพๆ quite quickly, too.

My first year I lived here full time, I was in Bangkok, and took after the speech habits of my friends, which included sloppy pronunciation of ร as well as other things... and I then went North (Chiang Rai) and asked for something with a ร pronounced as ล... and to my surprise, I was corrected by the shop clerk who gave me the correct pronunciation with a beautifully rolled ร.

[soundman]

Hey meadish & mangkorn,

How do I make my cpu read your posts?

Is Unicode something you activate on your cpu or other software you have to buy?

Cheers,

Soundman.

[meadish_sweetball]

Soundman, in your web browser, go to View - Encoding (or Character encoding) - choose Unicode (UTF-8) from the list

My Thai came out like that because I posted with Unicode UTF-8 enabled after having read mangkorn's post.

[soundman]

Meadish, glad to see you have Thai script again. Did you fix the computer problem?

Thanks for the helpful response. It was probably just a typing error by the OP but for clarification just in case it wasn't, I wanted to point out that he wrote รื (a long vowel sound) whereas Meadish wrote (what I also understand to be correct) รึ with a short vowel. Other than that both posts are helpful in sorting that word and it's common uses out.

You are quite right CSS. Typo. รึ is the corect spelling of the shorter form.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[soundman]

Soundman, in your web browser, go to View - Encoding (or Character encoding) - choose Unicode (UTF-8) from the list

My Thai came out like that because I posted with Unicode UTF-8 enabled after having read mangkorn's post.

Thanks for that meadish.

Mangkorn's post now displays fine but for some reason your post #6 still comes out as gobbledygook.

Thanx again,

Soundman.

[sabaijai]

Soundman, in your web browser, go to View - Encoding (or Character encoding) - choose Unicode (UTF-8) from the list

My Thai came out like that because I posted with Unicode UTF-8 enabled after having read mangkorn's post.

Thanks for that meadish.

Mangkorn's post now displays fine but for some reason your post #6 still comes out as gobbledygook.

Thanx again,

Soundman.

I never see Thai script in mangkorn's posts, only Roman.

[soundman]

I've come accross เหลอ & หลอ used as single words (or with จริง) spoken as "really?" is in English.

Do these words only get used this way or can they be used in other contexts?

Cheers,

Soundman.

[meadish_sweetball]

I've only heard หรือ pronounced that way in isolation and when it occurs as a final particle, i.e. when corresponding to English 'really' or as a sentence-final question particle.

It should be noted that these variations are really just irregular pronunciations of หรือ and are not seen as proper words in their own right.

I don't think I have ever heard them used inside a sentence when หรือ means 'or', such as สัตว์เลี้ยงที่มักจะนิยมกันมากที่สุด ก็คือ แมวหรือหมา

[soundman]

I've only heard หรือ pronounced that way in isolation and when it occurs as a final particle, i.e. when corresponding to English 'really' or as a sentence-final question particle.

It should be noted that these variations are really just irregular pronunciations of หรือ and are not seen as proper words in their own right.

I don't think I have ever heard them used inside a sentence when หรือ means 'or', such as สัตว์เลี้ยงที่มักจะนิยมกันมากที่สุด ก็คือ แมวหรือหมา

Thanks for that meadish.

Sort of what I'de gathered anyway.

BTW สัฅว์เลี้ยงที่ผมชอบคือหมา thanks for the exercise.

Soundman.

[mangkorn]

Soundman, in your web browser, go to View - Encoding (or Character encoding) - choose Unicode (UTF-8) from the list

My Thai came out like that because I posted with Unicode UTF-8 enabled after having read mangkorn's post.

Thanks for that meadish.

Mangkorn's post now displays fine but for some reason your post #6 still comes out as gobbledygook.

Thanx again,

Soundman.

I never see Thai script in mangkorn's posts, only Roman.

sabaijai: do you also see the gobbledygook? And have you tried to activate Unicode but still don't see Thai script? If so, then I am doomed for posting here .

[Richard W]

sabaijai: do you also see the gobbledygook? And have you tried to activate Unicode but still don't see Thai script? If so, then I am doomed for posting here .

Can you not post with the encoding set to ISO-8859-1? That is what the encoding of TV pages is explicitly set to. The characters should be stored in these pages as 'numeric entities', not as UTF-8 byte sequences.

[mangkorn]

sabaijai: do you also see the gobbledygook? And have you tried to activate Unicode but still don't see Thai script? If so, then I am doomed for posting here .

Can you not post with the encoding set to ISO-8859-1? That is what the encoding of TV pages is explicitly set to. The characters should be stored in these pages as 'numeric entities', not as UTF-8 byte sequences.

(Test ISO-8859-1): ใจดีสู้เสือใจดำสู้แมว

[meadish_sweetball]

Works beautifully mangkorn. Problem solved.

Thank you Richard.

[mangkorn]

sabaijai: do you also see the gobbledygook? And have you tried to activate Unicode but still don't see Thai script? If so, then I am doomed for posting here .

Can you not post with the encoding set to ISO-8859-1? That is what the encoding of TV pages is explicitly set to. The characters should be stored in these pages as 'numeric entities', not as UTF-8 byte sequences.

Thanks Richard. I use Apple's Safari browser, which doesn't have that coding option. But then I checked it out on Firefox, which I guess I will use when posting on this forum. (I think Apple makes superior products, but the geeks in that company don't seem to grasp the idea that some people also use computers to actually write with! The magnificent Mac G4 doesn't even have a delete button, if you can believe it; you have to scroll forward, and then backspace to delete...)