A decade on from The Great Flood is Bangkok going to slip under the waves for ever?

[webfact]

Picture: Bangkok Business News

 

Thailand's Bangkok Business News reminded their readership as floods wracked the country that one of the places most at risk and susceptible to flooding was the Thai capital city.

 

The city was sinking as fast as ever as sea levels continued to rise. 

 

They asked if a prediction was going to come true.

 

A survey in 2009 said that bangkok had 25 years to put plans in place or face disaster.

 

There are 13 years left and BBN was asking if the capital's days are numbered, except as a place to get around by boat.

 

One study suggested that from 1978 to 2008 the city had sunk 1 meter.

 

Much of it is at an average of 1.5 M about sea level. Much of the lower reaches of the Chao Praya river are very low lying. 

 

The story said that rainfall was not really the problem in Bangkok it was the mitigation measures about where to send it.

 

Bangkok's geographical position presents challenges.

 

Inevitably they asked the question in the current rainy season if Bangkok would flood this year like what it referred to as The Great Bangkok Flood in 2011.

 

Much of the country flooded in that year but Bangkok waited its turn in blue skies and relative quiet.

 

But the city residents had been told that water was on its way despite the fact it wasn't raining.

 

Suburb by northern suburb the water came - not from the sky, at least not here - but gurgling up through the drains.

 

Drains that couldn't cope with the water that was flowing from the north and central regions to Bangkok and the sea.

 

Great areas were swallowed up in places like Don Muang as the water rose.

 

It began with a trickle from a drain that soon became a torrent you could kyack in!

 

With Bangkok sinking and the sea rising according to climate change forecasts the future could be grim if Bangkok city planners drop the ball. 

 

Polders, levees, floodwalls, by-pass floodways were all mentioned as helpful in the article. 

 

But there needs to be political will as well as ideas to stop and redirect the water. 

 

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[Scrotobike]

Yes unless they build Holland style flood defences

Same future for Pattaya

Head for the hills!

[MRToMRT]

11 minutes ago, webfact said:

There are 13 years left and BBN was asking if the capital's days are numbered, except as a place to get around by boat.

We all know it will be left till the 11th hour. However, a mega project would mean lots of available lucre so who knows.

[konaboy]

still building---It is plain as day what's happening. Is anybody listening?

You want to buy in BKK?

[konaboy]

don't forget the roads will flood and you cant get home to that 10th floor condo!

[Geoffggi]

32 minutes ago, webfact said:

With Bangkok sinking and the sea rising according to climate change forecasts the future could be grim if Bangkok city planners drop the ball. 

Maybe this is why the government want to sell off land in selected areas to foreigners  .....LOL With reference to city planners dropping the ball I would say more like dropped the would be nearer the mark. I remember a while back there was talk about developing a new location for the capital city, lets hope they choose wisely and not just purchase land because of who owns it like swampy.

[ourmanflint]

3 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

We all know it will be left till the 11th hour. However, a mega project would mean lots of available lucre so who knows.

The week before it sinks some politician will publish a foolhardy plan to lift the city up above the waves using thousands of drones. 

[Catoni]

Perhaps Bangkok is simply sinking, same like Jakarta, Indonesia. (Sinking as much as 10 inches a year) Jakarta has been pumping all the water out of their aquifer, and built huge heavy buildings. The combination of emptying their underground aquifer and erecting big buildings is making the city sink fast. 
This is happening to many cities in the world. Even Mexico City. Parts of Mexico City are sinking as fast as 20 inches per year. 
AS CALIFORNIA’S ECONOMY skyrocketed during the 20th century, its land headed in the opposite direction. A booming agricultural industry in the state’s San Joaquin Valley, combined with punishing droughts, led to the over-extraction of water from aquifers. Like huge, empty water bottles, the aquifers crumpled, a phenomenon geologists call subsidence. By 1970, the land had sunk as much as 28 feet in the valley, with less-than-ideal consequences for the humans and infrastructure above the aquifers.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-ongoing-collapse-of-the-worlds-aquifers/
  Venice used to have water wells in and around the city. But outlawed all water wells due to aquifer subsidence problems and the city beginning to sink. The aquifer is now slowly being replenished. 
   Indonesia is already seriously looking at building a new capital. 
What is the status of Bangkok’s aquifer?

[klauskunkel]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

But there needs to be political will

I'm sure Prayut/Prawit would be very willing to buy some used Chinese dykes on discount!

Edited September 29, 2021 by klauskunkel

[Dogmatix]

The Yingluck government approved three separate large budgets for flood mitigation but nothing of substance happened except theft from the budgets. 

[lesmac]

Don't attempt to do this yourself Thailand as you can't sole a simple drainage system in Pattaya. Bring in Dutch engineers to protect the BKK elite and while they are her send them to Pattaya.

[NeoDinosaw]

55 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Perhaps Bangkok is simply sinking, same like Jakarta, Indonesia. (Sinking as much as 10 inches a year) Jakarta has been pumping all the water out of their aquifer, and built huge heavy buildings. The combination of emptying their underground aquifer and erecting big buildings is making the city sink fast. 

This is exactly what has happened in BKK.   It would make sense to establish a new capital much further north, and more central for easier access to the rest of the country.  Many countries have moved their capitals away from the coast (e.g. Brasil, Myanmar and [I think] Pakistan).  Designing a new capital could rid it of the traffic problems.   The old capital would become a tourist attraction (like Ayuthaya).   It would certainly be cheaper than building and maintaining adequate flood defences around BKK.

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

With Bangkok sinking and the sea rising according to climate change forecasts the future could be grim if Bangkok city planners drop the ball.

Drop the ball, they haven't even picked it up yet.

Too much investment and no-ideas.

[Eric Loh]

31 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

This is exactly what has happened in BKK.   It would make sense to establish a new capital much further north, and more central for easier access to the rest of the country.  Many countries have moved their capitals away from the coast (e.g. Brasil, Myanmar and [I think] Pakistan).  Designing a new capital could rid it of the traffic problems.   The old capital would become a tourist attraction (like Ayuthaya).   It would certainly be cheaper than building and maintaining adequate flood defences around BKK.

Such a plan was actually thought off 18 years ago.

https://www.scmp.com/article/436397/satellite-city-ease-bangkok-blues

[jollyhangmon]

A decade on from The Great Flood is Bangkok going to slip under the waves for ever?

 

Well, there's always hope ... ????

 

[Burma Bill]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

except as a place to get around by boat.

Will there be "rip off" gondoliers rather than taxi cab drivers?????

 

[BumGun]

Prayut has a cunning plan , part of the "sell foreigners land" deal, restrict it to BKK, sell off much of it, and the locals use that Baht to move elsewhere :) PROFIT ! :)

 

[Golden Triangle]

A decade on from The Great Flood is Bangkok going to slip under the waves for ever?

 

One can hope ????

Rate this topic

[Will B Good]

7 hours ago, konaboy said:

still building---It is plain as day what's happening. Is anybody listening?

You want to buy in BKK?

You would have to be mental to buy in BKK.....it is doomed.

 

Korat might be the place to be. Lot of money shifting up that way, just look at Mu Si and that area.....starting to boom (boom).

[Autonuaq]

8 hours ago, Scrotobike said:

Yes unless they build Holland style flood defences

Same future for Pattaya

Head for the hills!

Not sure if you have seen the news about The Netherlands, since 1992 they have huge problems to keep the water out and even made inland area that have cirkel dykes around it to enclose the up comming water due to the water the is pushed out of the ground caused by the water pressure from the sea. 

 

the new delta plan will not help too and the now are planning to move inward in the direction of

Germay. 

to Illustrate this is what they expect the Netherlands will look like within the next 100 years.

 

 

[Nojohndoe]

2 hours ago, Autonuaq said:

Not sure if you have seen the news about The Netherlands, since 1992 they have huge problems to keep the water out and even made inland area that have cirkel dykes around it to enclose the up comming water due to the water the is pushed out of the ground caused by the water pressure from the sea. 

 

the new delta plan will not help too and the now are planning to move inward in the direction of

Germay. 

to Illustrate this is what they expect the Netherlands will look like within the next 100 years.

 

 

It is quite intriguing how so many quote the success of Holland in it's relative historical success in reclaiming land from the sea. Unfortunately there is not so much information dispensed as the the cost of maintaining that and so the cost of the land in the Netherlands in total.

The "technology" is less sophisticated than the mechanical viable capacity to defy the encroachment of the rising seas which when coupled with the ferocity of increasingly stormy weather creates an increasing threat.

Bangkok and other places which have a recognized dual problem of subsidence and incremental increases in sea levels would IMO cease to contemplate any major investment in attempts to mitigate the reality and instead commit to sustained relocation of primary urban development. It need be remembered Bangkok was historically deemed the "Venice of Asia" when before automobiles changed the imperative for roads instead of  canals  which were filled in to become streets in accommodation to the "modern" way. Unfortunately development of the greater urban areas has ignored the fact Bangkok literally exists on tidal mud flats and the tide progressively is rising.

Bangkok probably has longer than a decade to remain viable as it is but can expect increasing disruption due to flooding over that time.

If predictions of the rise in sea levels are even half accurate there are  many places that need to evaluate realistic impact . And in IMHO it need go beyond sea levels into the impact of  climate change on agricultural viability. Urbanites  might dismiss that factor because "food and  materials" come from a shop. Hello?

 

 

[Jenkins9039]

All the engineering feats accomplished within Bangkok (thailand in general) even if they are slow, i'm pretty certain a solution will be found, perhaps all land from the sea to a mile of the city becomes marshes with a seawall put along the coast, then additional seawalls around the coastal side of the city, along with increasing the rivers and walls around them... 

 

for every problem concrete and rebar with a little $ has a solution.

 

 

[bangon04]

"The story said that rainfall was not really the problem in Bangkok it was the mitigation measures about where to send it."

 

I seem to remember that the master plan last time was to line up all the boats in the river and point all their propellers downstream.......

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

The city was sinking as fast as ever as sea levels continued to rise. 

Load of ................... IMO. The city, far as I understand it, is sinking because too much water is being pumped out from underneath it. This has been reported on English language Thai newspapers for as long as I have been reading them.

[Catoni]

9 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

It is quite intriguing how so many quote the success of Holland in it's relative historical success in reclaiming land from the sea. Unfortunately there is not so much information dispensed as the the cost of maintaining that and so the cost of the land in the Netherlands in total.

The "technology" is less sophisticated than the mechanical viable capacity to defy the encroachment of the rising seas which when coupled with the ferocity of increasingly stormy weather creates an increasing threat.

Bangkok and other places which have a recognized dual problem of subsidence and incremental increases in sea levels would IMO cease to contemplate any major investment in attempts to mitigate the reality and instead commit to sustained relocation of primary urban development. It need be remembered Bangkok was historically deemed the "Venice of Asia" when before automobiles changed the imperative for roads instead of  canals  which were filled in to become streets in accommodation to the "modern" way. Unfortunately development of the greater urban areas has ignored the fact Bangkok literally exists on tidal mud flats and the tide progressively is rising.

Bangkok probably has longer than a decade to remain viable as it is but can expect increasing disruption due to flooding over that time.

If predictions of the rise in sea levels are even half accurate there are  many places that need to evaluate realistic impact . And in IMHO it need go beyond sea levels into the impact of  climate change on agricultural viability. Urbanites  might dismiss that factor because "food and  materials" come from a shop. Hello?

 

 

Ground subsidence from pumping water from the underground aquifers and building heavy infrastructure above is a much much bigger problem than sea level rise. Sea level has not increased in rate since at least when Abraham Lincoln was president of the U.S.  Sea level is rising now at about the same rate is has been since at least 1850. The graphs show a linear trend of gradual rise with no upwards curvature of acceleration. 
   Sea level has basically been rising for at least the last 20,000 years. It used to be extremely fast, more than 40mm per year, particularly during Meltwater Pulse 1A.  But it slowed dramatically about 7,500 years ago. Now rising only anywheres from 0mm per year to 3mm per year depending on the year and location. It varies from year to year and place to place. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Catoni
Addition

[Tropposurfer]

I don't know the tunes name, or the artist/s who sang it year ago, but there was a quite rousing song if I remember its meter correctly. A song with the line; 'And we all go down together.'

[Scrotobike]

14 hours ago, Autonuaq said:

Not sure if you have seen the news about The Netherlands, since 1992 they have huge problems to keep the water out and even made inland area that have cirkel dykes around it to enclose the up comming water due to the water the is pushed out of the ground caused by the water pressure from the sea. 

 

the new delta plan will not help too and the now are planning to move inward in the direction of

Germay. 

to Illustrate this is what they expect the Netherlands will look like within the next 100 years.

 

 

Oh dear - hope they have Wellington boots (galoshes for you non-English speakers) 

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

I'm sure Prayut/Prawit would be very willing to buy some used Chinese dykes on discount!

They should get the finger out and buy Dutch dykes with holes in them.

[Will B Good]

4 hours ago, Catoni said:

Ground subsidence from pumping water from the underground aquifers and building heavy infrastructure above is a much much bigger problem than sea level rise. Sea level has not increased in rate since at least when Abraham Lincoln was president of the U.S.  Sea level is rising now at about the same rate is has been since at least 1850. The graphs show a linear trend of gradual rise with no upwards curvature of acceleration. 
   Sea level has basically been rising for at least the last 20,000 years. It used to be extremely fast, more than 40mm per year, particularly during Meltwater Pulse 1A.  But it slowed dramatically about 7,500 years ago. Now rising only anywheres from 0mm per year to 3mm per year depending on the year and location. It varies from year to year and place to place. 

Source quoted.

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

[DavidSSaville]

If Bangkok subsides sooner than this next earth cataclysmic cycle starts then it will be a temp measure as within 100 years much of the land going down to Malaysia and all of the Gulf will again be above sea level. The biggest long term concern will be dealing with salt water contamination of the water table and salt water contamination of top soil.

Without fresh water there will be no swift recovery of the land. People are hardy and smart, many will be able to subsist where others will give up and move North or protected high ground.

This is a worse case scenario if Greenland again returns to the equator.