Can I Obtain And Use Tourist Visas Indefinately?

[danw]

Firstly, Hello Thai Visa,

I'm expecting a tirade or 'use the search function' for the question I am about to ask, however I have read through many many topics and am still unclear on my specific question.

I am a British Citizen currently in Thailand on the second part of my 60 day Tourist Visa, which I will (hopefully) be extending for another thirty days. My question pertains to what I need to do after this to remain in the country on a longer term basis.

I am aware that I can leave and return on a Visa On Arrival basis three times, however I would rather travel to Kuala Lumpar or elsewhere and wait there to obtain either multiple or single 60 day tourist visas (so that I do not have to do a visa run every thirty days)

My question is this, can I, every three months, travel to Kuala Lumpur and go through the tourist visa application process successfully on an INDEFINATE basis? Or am I going to hit a problem after a certain number of applications that prevents me from obtaining another.

Thanks for your patience ladies and gents, I did try to get a clear answer using the search function but there are so many topics and situations in this forum that it's very hard sometimes to get a clear and definitive answer.

Look forward to your replies,

Dan

[PhilHarries]

Who knows? You used to be able to get the visa exempt stamps on an indefinate basis but then they "changed" the rules. I put changed in "" as it wasn't so much a change but a clampdown on the abuse of that system.

Currently, to my knowledge, there is no indication that you couldn't get tourist or non-imm o visas indefinately and as long as you're not working you are doing nothing illegal. If you are over 50 and have 800k THB to spare there is the retirement visa option available. Or you could get married .

But who knows what the future holds, answers on a postcard.

[georgebkk]

Single entry visas ONLY now.

No more multiple entry TVs.

Join the club...

[thedi]

As the name suggests, Tourist Visas are for tourists. Tourists are people, who come to holidays, visit tempels and beaches, but have their centre of life in their home country: they live there, have a home there and just come to holiday to Thailand.

Obviousely you are not a tourist in this sence. So using Tourist Visas is kind of bending a rule. It is not against the law, but it is not in the sense of the law.

You can not expect to get a garantie to go on INDEFINITELY bending a rule.

Your options are:

• be flexible, travel between your home country an Thailand and maybe its neighboring countries and use tourist visas. Now it seems that you can get single entry Tourist visas in the neighboring countries of Thailand and multiple entry Tourist visas in your home country (you will have to specify a home address there). This rules may change without prior notice.
  
• You may get married and have a common income in Thailand (pay tax for) at least 40K/month. You can extend your permission of stay on a yearly basis (not too easy) and if you succeed that for 3 years may apply for permanent residence (where a important question wil be: how many taxes did you pay in Thailand in this 3 years).
  
• You may get married and get an multiple entry nonimmigrant-O visa in your home country. This gives you unlimitted number of entries to Thailand for a year, each stay up to 90 days. You will get this visa only in your home country and you will have to give a home address there and naturally show your marriage certificate from Thailand.
  
• You may get older than 50 years and have an income of at least 65K from aboard (prove required) or at least 800K (originating from aboard) for more than 3 month in a Thai bank. This way you can extend your permission to stay in Thailand on a yearly basis (but no way to permanent residence).
  
• You may go down the route of 30-day-visa-waver entries (wich are restricted to 90 days per 6 month only in Thailand) and fill the threeds of this forum with your complains when your 90 days are up and you get caught when trying to reenter.
  

In short: welcome are tourists, farangs married to a Thai and living with their family in Thailand or living aboard and comming to visit the family anytime and finally retired farangs which bring their pensions to Thailand.

Like any country, Thailand defines its rules for visiting foreigners to suit its own interests only.

In my experience, the more you try to bend rules, the more you will be frustrated in the long way.

Hope this answers your questions

Regards

Thedi

[danw]

Thank you all very much for the informative response, I guess the question I was asking in short was, is there an upper limit per year for Single (or Multiple, should I make a brief return to the UK to obtain another 3) tourist visas - it seems not, at least not in a strict sense as per the 90 in 180 day limit on visas on arrival. I am in truth not working in the country, i'm self employed as a web developer (UK sole trader) and only work over the internet for non Thai businesses - is being honest about my source of income to thai immigration likely to cause me any kind of problems? I was under the impression that I am not breaking the law in any way by doing my business as i am, as I do not have any kind of business dealings with Thai companies in the slightest. Would I be better to say my Thai girlfriend is supporting me rather than being honest and stating that my earnings are from employment aboad?

Sorry to be a burden, this is all new to me, I didn't expect to fall in love with the country (and naturally, a person here) when I first visited so a real quagmire making sure that I keep on the right side of the authorities to stay as long term as possible.

Thank you all again!

Dan

[thedi]

You need a workpermit when you do any work in Thailand, independent on who is paying you, or if you work without pay or whether you are dealing with a Thai company or not. That's the law. Even people who helped to clean up after the tsunami where remembered, that they need a work permit - after the first turmoil was over.

The chances, that Thai officals will catch you doing some work on your laptop are nearly zero. For this reason, immigration will want to know where your money comes from, when you want to extend your permission of stay. And if its source is such, that you would need a work permit, they will ask for it.

At the moment, immigration is only interested in your income when you apply for an extension of a non-immigrant visa on a yearly basis. Up to now, I never heard that immigration asked questions about income when extending a tourist visa by 30 days.

If you want to stay in Thailand in the long way, it pays if you are 100% legal. Without legality, you are open to extortion from corrupt officials, ex girlfriends, neighbors or you may run into back luck like an accident.

In my experience, the ex-pats who live in Thailand on the principle that they will not be caught or by bending rules or just be following rules to the letter, but not in their sense, will be frustrated sooner or later. You can find hundreds of their posts in this forum.

You may consider to contact a lawyer (sunbelt) for your options to get a work permit. With a work permit, your chances at immigration are better and if you pay enough taxes you may get permanent residence after 3 years. But for this kind of advice I would only rely on a experienced lawyer.

Regards

Thedi

Edited June 2, 2007 by thedi

[pampal]

I am a US citizen and I obtained a multiple entry tourist visa at the Hague,Netherlands. No one asked me for a local address and I have been staying in Thailand for the last 9 months on a combination of visa exempt entries and a single entry B visa obtained in KL.

Edited June 2, 2007 by pampal

[georgebkk]

...I am in truth not working in the country, i'm self employed as a web developer (UK sole trader) and only work over the internet for non Thai businesses - is being honest about my source of income to thai immigration likely to cause me any kind of problems? I was under the impression that I am not breaking the law in any way by doing my business as i am, as I do not have any kind of business dealings with Thai companies in the slightest...

If you're truly a tourist, your personal finances are nobody's business but yours. If you stick to the rules and stay legal, you're not breaking any laws. You're a tourist who happens to enjoy a particular country a lot and therefore spends a lot of time AND MONEY there. There's no need to feel guilty about this. You're not "bending" any rules. You're just a tourist, for crissakes!

As long as you don't do any business with any Thais DIRECTLY, you can continue to do what you're doing (as many others are). You don't have to get married or wait to retire to be legal here. Don't listen to these wannabee Thai immigration "officials" here who think they are qualified to interpret Thai law. It's ludicrous to think that in the age of the internet, if you're able to travel and conduct your business via a laptop at the same time (which many, MANY people throughout the world are doing now), that you somehow owe taxes on your earnings in every country that you visit. This is the sort of thinking that the "one-worlders" want to you adopt, to grease the path to global gov't (and therefore global control through global taxes). Don't subscribe to it!!

Heck, they're seriously talking about a tax on the internet right now to accomplish this very thing. It's being debated in the States. No joke.

Besides, who's to say how long one can be a tourist in any given country, anyway? As soon as a country announces that there's a "new limit" on the amount of time you can be a tourist in their country PER YEAR, it's like throwing cold water on their tourist industry. Stupid.

But then, virtually nothing surprises me anymore about the level of ignorance and corruption in Thailand. Will they further restrict TV's to, say, 3 per year or something? Get rid of the free visa exempt stamp and make everybody purchase a visa before arriving (like they do in India)?

Wouldn't surprise me at all......

[Fred Sanford]

Good post George. refreshing to hear after the same old same old everyday

[tijnebijn]

First of all,the Op asked if he can get tourist visas back to back,for now the anwer would be yes.

All the things'that might be' scenarios are not in place yet,or will never be.That Thailand wants to get rid of all the foreigners is also something that is simply not true.That changes ,in most allready existing policies,are being done with now, doesn't mean that there is a backthought with it.These are only speculations from us'farang'.

If things really turned out to be ,like some think,we just can't do anything about that.

Some would say I am an ostrich,some say you are doomthinkers,whatever the thought, it is still possible to stay in Thailand.Letting ourselves lead through emotions and doom scenarios makes our lives a living hel_l,not will give me anything back in return,so be it.For the OP not to worrie,he is not doing anything illegal and stays how almost everybody stays the first couple of years being in Thailand.For legal advise a lawyer should do much better then any of us regarding working oversees,but you do not have to pay any taxes,cause you probably pay allready in your home country,I do not think there is a problem with this.Maybe for the OP to get multiples,and if you got the finances,to get those multiples in his home country,will be more convenient,he should also explore other possibillities for longer stay,but the mods on this forum can tell him about that.Good luck anyway.

[hotgeekus]

from my side....

tourist visa back to back to back to back. But I have not tried the same consulate yet.

As an FYI, my case is not to screw anyone. Just have a relationship from home country, are not married yet, so while one of us is legal work permit holder, the other needs a tv every 90 days. Supports the country and the economy, especially Air Asia for the flights out of the country....

[tropo]

Firstly, Hello Thai Visa,

I'm expecting a tirade or 'use the search function' for the question I am about to ask, however I have read through many many topics and am still unclear on my specific question.

I am a British Citizen currently in Thailand on the second part of my 60 day Tourist Visa, which I will (hopefully) be extending for another thirty days. My question pertains to what I need to do after this to remain in the country on a longer term basis.

It's quite typical when you ask any questions on this forum about back-to-back tourist visas you get nonsense about how you are trying to manoeuvre through a loophole of some kind and you are essentially doing something wrong. Then you'll get a lecture about how tourists are not supposed to stay in Thailand for too long on such visas. One member even suggested that unless you're visiting temples and beaches you have no right to be in Thailand on a tourist visa and went as far as suggesting marriage, or getting a job in order to secure a work permit.

This type of advice serves no purpose on here at all and would be more appropriate on a dating, or job search site.

In actual fact if a person has the funds to stay in Thailand indefinitely, then as long as consulates are willing to give that person tourist visas he has every right to stay as long as he or she pleases. Surprisingly for some, there are people who don't need to work and have the sufficent funds to perpetually travel and live as tourists.

In answer to the OP's question: Yes, it is possible to get back-to-back tourist visas and there is absolutely no indication that this will change in the foreseeable future. Of course all things eventually change, but change for the better is equally possible so it makes no sense to scare monger on here. Usually we find it's the permanent residents who take a dislike to perpetual tourists that love to propose doom scenarios for the future.

In Penang some tourists have already been issued 4 back-to-back tourist visas since October 1, 2006. I even heard from an agent this week that some changes for the better are in the pipeline (in Penang). I will be staying in close contact with these people and will report here if any changes do eventuate.

Edited June 3, 2007 by tropo

[tropo]

everyone does gives the passport to the money changes of julan julia in penang

This is incorrect. There are many agents, and it's quite easy to get one yourself at the Consulate.

"you pay a bit more...corruption money

This is nonsense. Most agents will process your visa for only 20 RM (200 baht) along with the standard visa fee of 100 RM (1000 baht) (unless you are from an ASEAN country in which case it is free). Where's the corruption money in that?

This is an interesting development and it would serve the board well if you could relate the story in a little more detail with less anger. There has been mention before on this forum of touble at the Malaysian/Thailand border. You mention the Immigration Officers were querying stamps. What stamps? I would have thought all stamps were self explanatary.

I personally would never use the train to travel to Penang, and in a way I can understand the Immigration Officials' curiosity regarding the tourists' finances if they need to go by train to Penang.

[georgebkk]

Good post George. refreshing to hear after the same old same old everyday

Thanks.

Just trying to tell it like it is...

[tropo]

first off there is no anger only reporting exactly what i was told. if people wish to live in a fantasy world ha ha ha.

by the way i aint some green tourist. ive been to malaysia over 60 times in 15 years. ok things have changed since but still.

you wish to nit pick. when i said everyone i meant almost everyone. fact remains those money changers handle the vast majority of everyone applications down there.

Nobody is nitpicking here. The fact still remains that hundreds of people are obtaining back-to-back visas with no trouble at all and I have never seen one report on here where a holder of a tourist visa from Penang has been refused entry. Even your friend got through despite a little inconvenience at the land border. Are you able to verify if indeed any tourist visa holders were actually refused entry into Thailand?

Could you please elaborate on the fees that these money changers are apparently charging as a service fee. How about some numbers to back up your claim of mass corruption at the Penang Consulate.

I can assure you that any regular reader on this forum would not be paying more than 20 RM in order to acquire a tourist visa as several services have been promoted by many members on here. This is no more than a taxi fare to the consulate that a person would be paying if they applied in person.

Your ideas do nothing to make anyone "think again". Trouble at the Malaysia/Thailand border has been reported on here before, so even that is not new.

[cosmont]

from my side....

tourist visa back to back to back to back. But I have not tried the same consulate yet.

As an FYI, my case is not to screw anyone. Just have a relationship from home country, are not married yet, so while one of us is legal work permit holder, the other needs a tv every 90 days. Supports the country and the economy, especially Air Asia for the flights out of the country....

Every farang living in the LOS support the Thai economy in many ways by spending overseas money here

Obviously, it is not consider by the Thai immigration laws.... many of my friends without long term visa and below 50 years old feel very upset about it

One of these friends applied last month in vientiane for a second Tourist visa and got a double entry that give him 6 months (with 2 extensions and one run)...

Each time he was there, he always saw a very long queue of 50 to 100 peoples requesting a tourist visa ... I guess Ventiane consulate is making a LOT OF MONEY in tourist visa issuance business...

Edited June 3, 2007 by cosmont

[astral]

Nobody is nitpicking here. The fact still remains that hundreds of people are obtaining back-to-back visas with no trouble at all and I have never seen one report on here where a holder of a tourist visa from Penang has been refused entry. Even your friend got through despite a little inconvenience at the land border. Are you able to verify if indeed any tourist visa holders were actually refused entry into Thailand?

A year ago people were saying the same about the string of 30 day visa exemption stamps, and

poo-pooing those who pointed out that there were abusing the system.

Already the embassies/consulates in the region are limiting applicants to single entry tourist visas.

Do you really need to keep pushing until they clamp down and say, "OK, no more than 180 days in a year as a tourist!"

Such rules do exist in other countries, Nepal for example.

[danw]

Nobody is nitpicking here. The fact still remains that hundreds of people are obtaining back-to-back visas with no trouble at all and I have never seen one report on here where a holder of a tourist visa from Penang has been refused entry. Even your friend got through despite a little inconvenience at the land border. Are you able to verify if indeed any tourist visa holders were actually refused entry into Thailand?

A year ago people were saying the same about the string of 30 day visa exemption stamps, and

poo-pooing those who pointed out that there were abusing the system.

Already the embassies/consulates in the region are limiting applicants to single entry tourist visas.

Do you really need to keep pushing until they clamp down and say, "OK, no more than 180 days in a year as a tourist!"

Such rules do exist in other countries, Nepal for example.

I have a good friend suffering from the 180 days in a year rule over in Brazil, absolutely messed up with the whole situation. It was what I was worried was in place in Thailand.

Thanks, everybody, again, for the informative posts, I know now that i stand a good chance of returning after a brief break in Malaysia, which I what I hoped was possible. Additionally the information regarding the hazy tax situation working for foreign companies over the internet has been very useful, before if questioned I would probably have been honest and could have ended up in serious problems returning, i'm now happy to describe myself as an addictive web surfer with income from investments.

Not much to add to the discussion as a newbie to Thailand and this board, but just wanted to offer thanks for the extensive answers from some users here.

I did have a thought regarding the posts in the Job Offers section, seems to have been 3 or 4 posts advertising web development work within the last few days, which in light of the dodgy work permit situation makes my suspicious ear prick up. I am paranoid at times however!

Thanks again all.

[altman]

on a related note:

today i got a 30 day extension of my second tourist visa. that is to say; i had a 60 day tourist visa from malaysia, extended that for 30 days, got a 60 day tourist visa from lao, and today extended that for 30 days. i have numerous visa on arrival (visa exemption) stamps as well.

so, immigration in thailand is still willing to issue extensions on back to back tourist visas.

[tropo]

you are nit picking you try to call me out on using the word everyone.

you just dont understand. this is the beginning of the end. it was very bad scene for him to get back in for him. yes he did get back. but still if he and all others are welcome to thailand than why did it happen peroid? i demand an answer out of anyone that thinks this is accepted behaviour? fact is if you cross the land borders of thailand they know dam well you are a long term tourist or working illegally. while i think those said people are not doing anything bad in thailand and should be allowed to like every other country in asia allows. fact remains they have a mandate from way way up high in the immgiratation to seriously reduce the numbers of foreigners that stay here long term. that was confirmed not just by their actions to which ive seen first hand but also confirmed from my friend that knows someone at immigration. i wont say where or who as my friend told me not to give exact details out. she also confirmed the mandate of the higher ups.

they have never harrased people with tourist visas before. they are now. just fast forward that a bit and you will start to see nasty comments written in thai. then you will see stuff like ok this time you can come but that is it no more tourist visas allowed actually stamped in the passport. or just refused entry. so while yes if you go now down there and get a tourist visa most likely will get back in. but this is begining of the end. if it was ok to use them never ever ever would people be harrased with tons of questions.

if anyone actually think that anytime soon its goona get more relaxed on the entry to thailand dream on. give it 6 months - 1 year. you will see.

just how much experience do you have with thailand and malaysia?

You're waffling again. I'm still waiting for some numbers regarding what your money-changers charge for visa services in Penang.

I don't know why people such as yourself get on this doom and gloom bandwagon. People such as myself will stay as long as it's easy. If your doom and gloom scenario becomes reality, then it's time to move to a more friendly location. That's not difficult to do.

I will repeat it again, back-to-back tourist visas are not a problem at all.

You're probably a frustrated and bored "resident" of Thailand who resents people easily living here on tourist visas.

[CyberViking]

on a related note:

today i got a 30 day extension of my second tourist visa. that is to say; i had a 60 day tourist visa from malaysia, extended that for 30 days, got a 60 day tourist visa from lao, and today extended that for 30 days. i have numerous visa on arrival (visa exemption) stamps as well.

so, immigration in thailand is still willing to issue extensions on back to back tourist visas.

Thanks. I was just about to ask about this when I saw your post. Was wondering whether I should try for an extension to my current 60-day tourist visa, which is my second from Penang, or just make another Penang run. I guess I'll go for the extension option.

Regards.