Bloody Time Reflects Mounting Insurgency In Thai South

[Plus]

Apparently Thai plan is to isolate them from the main population and hope that they give up their cause. It might work. Russians also tried that when they installed local government there. I believe they offered amnesties left and right, too.

That is the whole point of the concessions-to separate the extremists from the rest of the population. For sure, most or many of the extremists don't want to compromise. The key thing is that you don't want to push the rest of the population into their arms with heavy-handed tactics and a disregard for the feelings of the local populace.

I believe Russians let them elect their local muslim leader as a new Chechen President, that's a mighty consession, Thailand is generations away from autonomy, elections, or even appointing any locals to governor's office.

[ColPyat]

"innocents"? ..I get this feeling that you are more concerned with the muslims then you are with the thais? it seems like you want to keep on trying to talk to these people to get them to stop. while they are murdering thai people. WHO INCIDENTLY ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE. you don't talk to murderers. you kill them. and until you do, more INNOCENT thai people will get killed.

the reality is - if you just talk to the muslims, they will just continue murdering people. they have already told the general what they are going to do. kill thais. and they are doing it. with no debates, or discussions.

I recall reading about some muslim women down south who killed some nuns. do you remember that?

when there is a mad dog running around killing people, you don't talk to it. you kill it.

I am concerned with humans, regardless of their religion or ethnicy.

Don't you get it - it is not "the Muslims". It is insurgents of the ethic Malay Muslim majority of the three provinces. Ethnic Thai and ethnic Chinese Muslims of the other provinces have never joined the insurgency.

Secondly - within the three provinces many local Muslims are on the Thai side, are fighting in the paramilitary forces and are the majority of the armed village defense forces. They do fight against the insurgents, which at times happen to be their own relatives.

Most local Muslims do not want to be drawn into this war, but it becomes increasingly difficult.

You strange world view gathered from fanatical websites does not apply to conditions on the ground. Get it. If you don't believe it - go there and have a look yourself - it's just dangerous at times, but it is not a closed area. Speak with these people, instead of just propagating fanatic ideas on the internet.

[Mid]

Southern resentment erupts in violence

Last reviewed: 2007-03-20

AlertNet.org | Reuters Foundation

Muslims are a minority in Thailand, making up less than 5 percent of the country's total population of 63 million. They live mainly in the southernmost provinces that were annexed by the Thai government in 1902.

Many of Thailand's Muslims speak Malay and have more in common with the majority of the population in neighbouring Malaysia than with Buddhist Thais.

For around 500 years, they belonged to an independent sultanate, called Patani, which comprised the present-day provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and parts of western Songkhla.

This history and the persistent political marginalisation of the Malay minority are key factors behind the sporadic violence that has broken out in the region since it was incorporated into Thailand.

continues here

a tale of neglect and suffering .......................

Edited June 7, 2007 by Mid

[Jai Dee]

Insurgents assaulted police station in Tambon Jagwa of Raman district, Yala province

Assailants fired rifle rounds into the Tambon Jagwa (จะกว๊ะ) police station in Raman (รามัน) district of Yala province. There are no reports of injuries or death.

The incident occurred at 7.30 pm Thursday night, when an unknown number of assailants used war weapons to fire into the police station. Police officers on shift at the station returned fire, pushing back the assailants and finally driving them away. No policeman was hurt from the exchange. The station chief had radioed for backup and coordinated with the military to bring out patrols and manpower to support the police in tracking down the assailants.

The motive for the attack is thought to be to retaliate against the police raid conducted Thursday midday on a home belonging to a leader-level trainer for the RKK group, located in Tambon Kaero (เกะรอ) of Raman district. The search party was able to confiscate several categories of equipments for use in stirring unrest along with documents encouraging insurgencies.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

Authorities discover insurgent equipment in Yala province

Authorities searched 2 residence in Yala, discovering various equipment used in committing insurgent acts throughout the province.

Yesterday at 10:00 AM (May 7th), the Chief of Tambon Chakwah (จะกว๊ะ) precinct in Raman district of Yala province, Pol Maj Sompras Kanaka (สมปราชญ์ กรรณกา) led a unit of police, military, administrative officials and defense volunteers on an operation to apprehend 5 suspected teenagers. The suspects were earlier found near an area of Raman district where a suspious object was planted. Officers noted that the men were armed and fleed after being spotted.

Authorities conducted an intensive search of nearby areas but failed to lcoated the 5 men. A search was instead conducted on 2 suspicious homes in the area where the suspects had fled. Various weapons and ammunition, as well as explosive components, military radios, and propaganda documents were discovered at both scenes.

Officials believe that both homes belong to insurgent elements operating the three southern border provinces. Further investigation will be conducted to track down the suspected insurgents.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

CNS Chairman affirms no additional curfews will be declared in SBP

The Chairman of the Council for National Security affirms that no additional curfews will be declared in Songkhla province.

Army Commander in Chief and Chairman of the Council for National Security Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin affirms that despite increasing violence in the three southern border provinces, additional curfews will not be declared in Saba Yoi (สะบ้าย้อย) district of Songkhla province. Gen Sonthi said that officials have sufficient security measures in place, thus additional curfews are unnecessary.

The Chairman of the Council for National Security added that rumors of Ramkhamhaeng University students participating in road closure protests in Pattani province are being investigated by authorities. Gen Sonthi said officials are responding to these reports with appropriate measures.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

Gunmen exchange fire with police in southern Thailand

An unknown number of gunmen ambushed a police station in Thailand's southernmost province of Yala late Thursday and exchanged fire with a police unit for 10 minutes before escaping from the scene, according to local media reports.

The group of gunmen, believed to be local insurgents, fired at a police station in Raman district at about 8:00 p.m. (1300 GMT), Thai radio FM 100 said. A police unit then exchanged fire with the gunmen for about 10 minutes before launched a manhunt.

No casualties were reported right now.

Thailand's three southernmost provinces, Yala Narathiwat and Pattani, have been troubled with insurgency-related violence which has claimed more than 2,200 lives since it resumed in early 2004.

Source: Xinhua - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

Trouble in Thailand

With its powder-soft beaches and golden-spired Buddhist temples, Thailand markets itself as a tourist haven. But the Southeast Asian nation has another side it would rather visitors not see: an Islamic insurgency in the country's far south that has claimed more than 2,100 lives since 2004. On May 31, a dozen paramilitary rangers were killed in an ambush. The following weekend, two civilians were shot dead, and 20 soccer players were injured by an on-field bomb.

Although Thailand is predominantly Buddhist, millions of Muslims live in the country's three southernmost provinces, which Thailand annexed a century ago. An insurgency has simmered for three years, with some militants calling for an independent homeland. Many Thai Muslims have long felt marginalized by the Buddhist majority, and the sense of alienation may get a lot worse. This spring, thousands of Buddhist monks took to Bangkok's streets clamoring for their beliefs to be designated in the constitution as Thailand's sole state religion. On June 4, charter writers rejected the call for an official faith, but growing pro-Buddhist (and, by extension, anti-Muslim) sentiment could doom the new constitution when it faces a referendum in August.

The mounting body count in the south dashes hopes that last September's military coup might ease the crisis, because junta leader General Sonthi Boonyaratglin is a Muslim. Since the putsch, violence has worsened. On June 4, insurgents were blamed for a train derailment that caused the entire railway network in the south to grind to a halt. With no end in sight to the conflict, Thailand's government will have to work even harder to keep the violence from distracting the tourist trade.

Source: Time - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

More than 30 insurgents burn school in Yala

More than 30 suspected insurgents set fire to a school in Yala province, causing more than 2 million baht in damages.

The Deputy Commander of the Yala provincial police, Pol Col Narasak Chiangsuk (นราศักดิ์ เชียงสุข), led a unit of forensics officers, police, and military personnel to an arson scene at the Santi Wittiya (สันติวิทยา) School in Krong Pinang (กรงปินัง) district of Yala province. An inspection of the crime scene revealed that 6 classrooms and 10 televisions were destroyed, and 4 computers stolen. Damages are estimated at more than 2 million baht.

Investigation revealed that late last night (June 7) a group of no less than 30 suspected insurgents forced local security volunteers to open the gates to school grounds, before dousing school buildings with gasoline and setting fire to the area. Authorities believe that the incident was planned well in advance, and that suspects involved may living in the area. The Deputy Commander of the Yala provincial police affirms that the suspects will be brought to justice.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

ISOC Secretary concerned over Southern insurgents' influence over college students

Secretary of the Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC), Gen.Montri Sanghasup (มนตรี สังขทรัพย์), admits he is concerned over the matter that college students from Bangkok have joined protests in the three Southern border provinces. He suggests the government to urgently solve this problem which shows that insurgent groups are successful in persuading students to join them.

ISOC Secretary affirms that the government considers the Southern conflict as one of the most urgent and important problems of the country and has spent a large sum of money to resolve the unrest. The budget of 500 million baht has just been allocated to purchase explosive object detectors to facilitate officials stationed in the restive South. Gen.Montri adds that ISOC has instructed its officials to patrol the area more often to safeguard commuters and affirms that ISOC has enough officials working in the three provinces.

As for students of the Ramkhamhaeng University who have joined protests in the Deep South, the secretary says ISOC is scrutinizing personal information of the students and asked the university to monitor their movements.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

MFA reports that over 20,000 Cambodians are residing in restive South

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs reveals that it is coordinating with national security agencies in investigating reports that over 20,000 Cambodian Muslims are living in Thailand.

The Director General of the Department of Information and Spokesperson to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Tharit Charungwat, says his agency is investigating reports that over 20,000 Cambodian Muslims have been found to be conducting long-term residency in Thailand, with only about 10 percent returning home. The majority of Cambodian Muslims are believed to be residing in the southern border provinces.

Mr. Tharit says visa regulations would have to be adjusted. He affirms that the Thai embassy to Phnom Penh, Cambodia does not discriminate visa issuance based on religion and will treat all Cambodian visa requests equally.

The Spokesperson to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs also declines to comment on rumors that over 70 Indonesian insurrectionists have been found to be operating in the restive South.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 June 2007

[Mid]

Mr. Tharit says visa regulations would have to be adjusted. He affirms that the Thai embassy to Phnom Penh, Cambodia does not discriminate visa issuance based on religion and will treat all Cambodian visa requests equally.

this is becomming all to obvious ..........................

[Jai Dee]

16 hurt in two southern bombings; one shot dead

Twelve people were injured when a powerful bomb went off near a teashop in central Yala yesterday evening, and a village official was shot dead and four people injured in militant attacks elsewhere in the troubled deep South.

Police said the bomb, hidden in a telephone booth near the shop, had probably been set off remotely. A resident of the area heard the blast from a kilometre away.

The victims, many of whom suffered serious injuries, were taken to the nearby Yala Regional Hospital. Police blocked off the scene as crowds gathered to look at the damage.

Meanwhile, rail services linking the upper and lower South resumed yesterday under heavy security, four days after being suspended due to a spate of attacks on trains.

A helicopter escort was provided to protect trains running between Hat Yai and southernmost district of Sungai Kolok.

In Narathiwat, militants shot dead Hami Wani, 45-year-old deputy head of the remote village of Ban Salo, at about 1pm as he was driving home from Rangae district with two assistants. The assistants, Hamu Jehvo and Muhamad Nikaji, were injured.

A roadside bomb in the province's Muang district injured two marines on patrol with four colleagues to guard teachers on their way to school.

Two wooden buildings of the Ban Pohming school in Pattani's Panare district were burned to the ground at about 4am yesterday. A school building in Yala's Krong Pinang district was also set on fire early yesterday. Police suspect the arsonists in Panare are the same that set fire to schools and public-health centres in neighbouring Sai Buri district earlier this week.

Source: The Nation - 09 June 2007

[nick2k]

"innocents"? ..I get this feeling that you are more concerned with the muslims then you are with the thais? it seems like you want to keep on trying to talk to these people to get them to stop. while they are murdering thai people. WHO INCIDENTLY ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE. you don't talk to murderers. you kill them. and until you do, more INNOCENT thai people will get killed.

the reality is - if you just talk to the muslims, they will just continue murdering people. they have already told the general what they are going to do. kill thais. and they are doing it. with no debates, or discussions.

I recall reading about some muslim women down south who killed some nuns. do you remember that?

when there is a mad dog running around killing people, you don't talk to it. you kill it.

I am concerned with humans, regardless of their religion or ethnicy.

Don't you get it - it is not "the Muslims". It is insurgents of the ethic Malay Muslim majority of the three provinces. Ethnic Thai and ethnic Chinese Muslims of the other provinces have never joined the insurgency.

Secondly - within the three provinces many local Muslims are on the Thai side, are fighting in the paramilitary forces and are the majority of the armed village defense forces. They do fight against the insurgents, which at times happen to be their own relatives.

Most local Muslims do not want to be drawn into this war, but it becomes increasingly difficult.

You strange world view gathered from fanatical websites does not apply to conditions on the ground. Get it. If you don't believe it - go there and have a look yourself - it's just dangerous at times, but it is not a closed area. Speak with these people, instead of just propagating fanatic ideas on the internet.

nobody is saying they are not concerned about "innocents". but there comes a time when you need to sacrifice some people for the sake of the majority. if the "innocents" as you say they are don't leave, or cannot take out the evil side of their world, then, logic dictates that you take out everything in the way to resolve the problem.

if you don't do this - the killing, the murdering will continue.

like a cancer in your body, when you see that you have lost control of it, you need to take out not only the bad, but a lot of the good part of the body to stop the spread of the disease.

sorry, but that is reality.

talking won't do it anymore.

also, consider this, the enemy has already undertaken the move to not talk. and they are not concerned about "innocents". to them, there are no "innocents".

already, we see their "disease" is spreading. my guess is - it will reach bangkok soon - if it hasn't already.

in war when it comes to that, you either surrender, or you destroy. very seldom do you reach peace through talks.

history shows us that - this is the way it is.

and my guess is - the muslims down south have concluded this already.

fanatical thinking? tell that to the "fanatical" muslims.

[ColPyat]

sorry, but that is reality.

Sorry, but you are blathering.

The killing will not stop anyhow. Talks will happen in the end, the question is only when and after which body count.

In comparable insurgencies escalation has never reached any peace. The only comparable insurgency that recently ended in a peace agreement was Aceh, and that ended through talks. Unfortunately that has taken two or three decades. Presently this is studied by many institutions, how that can be applied to similar scenarios such as South Thailand.

This is not a text book war with a recognizable enemy in uniforms, but a very murky insurgency. This cannot be countered by simple escalation.

The only possible way is using many parallel strategies at the same time, tailor made to the varying conditions, from small military operations, to heart and mind operations, and all that lies in between, including trying to improve the very bad justice system in the area and education - two key factors of the insurgency. And try to isolate the fanatics of both sides - fanatics such as the insurgents, and fanatics such as you.

Reality, my friend, you will learn if you go there yourself, and/or read a whole lot of independent studies, and not racist, warmongering crap.

Edited June 9, 2007 by ColPyat

[Mid]

a genuine effort at reconciliation , complete with apologies for atrocities committed and the establishment of a commission of enquiry , backed up by some local voices in government would stand a large chance of succeeding ..............

[nick2k]

sorry, but that is reality.

Sorry, but you are blathering.

The killing will not stop anyhow. Talks will happen in the end, the question is only when and after which body count.

In comparable insurgencies escalation has never reached any peace. The only comparable insurgency that recently ended in a peace agreement was Aceh, and that ended through talks. Unfortunately that has taken two or three decades. Presently this is studied by many institutions, how that can be applied to similar scenarios such as South Thailand.

This is not a text book war with a recognizable enemy in uniforms, but a very murky insurgency. This cannot be countered by simple escalation.

The only possible way is using many parallel strategies at the same time, tailor made to the varying conditions, from small military operations, to heart and mind operations, and all that lies in between, including trying to improve the very bad justice system in the area and education - two key factors of the insurgency. And try to isolate the fanatics of both sides - fanatics such as the insurgents, and fanatics such as you.

Reality, my friend, you will learn if you go there yourself, and/or read a whole lot of independent studies, and not racist, warmongering crap.

bro, if you have been keeping up to date with what is happening down south, you will know these muslims down south are murdering on average about 100 "innocents" a month now. and it is escalating.

not only are they murdering people left and right, they are burning down all the schools.

do you really think this is the time to talk?

maybe you can wait 2 or 3 decades for them to calm down and stop murdering "innocents", but I don't think they deserve this type of treatment.

my friend, you are the one who is in fantasy land. ..not me.

as for being a fanatic, I don't see how you can equate me to the muslims down south, I haven't murdered any "innocents". nor do I plan to.

to you, I may be a fanatic. but to me, you are stupid.

[Mid]

do you really think this is the time to talk?

more than ever ,

the authorities aren't coming from the high ground .....................

[ColPyat]

bro, if you have been keeping up to date with what is happening down south, you will know these muslims down south are murdering on average about 100 "innocents" a month now. and it is escalating.

my friend, you are the one who is in fantasy land. ..not me.

to you, I may be a fanatic. but to me, you are stupid.

"Bro", yes, i have kept rather up to date with what is happening in the south as i am regularly down there and most of my time there is spent in the red zone areas.

Edited June 9, 2007 by ColPyat

[nick2k]

do you really think this is the time to talk?

more than ever ,

the authorities aren't coming from the high ground .....................

ok. let us consider your route. you want to talk to them. ..what happens if they don't want to talk to you?

and then go out and murder another 1000 people. would you still want to talk to them?

bro, you need to draw a line as to when talk is not going to work. otherwise, you are in self-denial.

from what I read, general sonthi already went down there to talk to the muslims. and guess what they said?

I can't remember the exact quote, but something along the lines.. we will keep killing until you leave "OUR" country.

if we need to murder 20,000 of you, we will.

hey. that says it all for me. it's them or us.

[ColPyat]

from what I read, general sonthi already went down there to talk to the muslims. and guess what they said?

I can't remember the exact quote, but something along the lines.. we will keep killing until you leave "OUR" country.

if we need to murder 20,000 of you, we will.

hey. that says it all for me. it's them or us.

No, you remember not correctly, and that was even two days ago.

Prof. Srisomprop from the Prince of Sonkhla university had a source that spoke with some insurgents, and they have stated this.

Gen. Sondhi has not spoken to insurgent leaders, at least if so it was not publicized. He speaks with local community leaders who are not part of the insurgency, and they did not tell him to leave their country.

And as to the claims of whose country it is, well, the state of Pattani was once an independent sort of country in the pre-nation building days, has seen regular uprisings against Thai claims on the area, was given to Thailand by the Brits where the locals had no saying. Basically, there is a long and complex history behind the conflict.

[Mid]

ok. let us consider your route. you want to talk to them. ..what happens if they don't want to talk to you?

and then go out and murder another 1000 people. would you still want to talk to them?

quite simply cross that bridge when /if you come to it .

there is nothing there to void an effort at dialogue , what peace offerings have the authorities offered ?

there is a lot of unanswered questions that are very valid .

Tak Bai mean anything to you ?

[nick2k]

bro, if you have been keeping up to date with what is happening down south, you will know these muslims down south are murdering on average about 100 "innocents" a month now. and it is escalating.

my friend, you are the one who is in fantasy land. ..not me.

to you, I may be a fanatic. but to me, you are stupid.

"Bro", yes, i have kept rather up to date with what is happening in the south as i am regularly down there and most of my time there is spent in the red zone areas.

do you consider yourself muslim? and if so, how loyal are you to the words of the koran?

[ColPyat]

do you consider yourself muslim? and if so, how loyal are you to the words of the koran?

Are you nuts?

I am western European, and convinced agnostic.

Edited June 9, 2007 by ColPyat

[vermin on arrival]

bro, if you have been keeping up to date with what is happening down south, you will know these muslims down south are murdering on average about 100 "innocents" a month now. and it is escalating.

Certainly a fair number of the killed have been innocents, rubber tappers, teachers, and monks, but many are members of the police, volunteer defense force and army. These are legtitmate targets in any civil war. The only time they are not considered legitmate is if you think the enemy is evil and without legitimate grievances.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't support the separatists and what they are doing, but I do think that the muslim, ethnic Malays do have some legitmate reasons to be upset. From what I've read, they haven't been treated well. In addition. they are a conquered people, who never wanted to be part of Thailand. Frequently, people in this situation rise in rebellion. It doesn't matter if they were conquered 10 years ago or 100 or more. They will want the right of ethnic self-determination.

In addition to Aceh as some have suggested, one can also look at the situation of the Kurds in Turkey. The Kurds also burned down schools and murdered teachers. This was because the schools were teaching them to be good Turks whereas they wanted to be Kurds. I think the situation is the same in the South. They are taught to be Thais in school and the insurgents don't want this so they burn down schools and kill teachers as well.

Certainly the Turks are no slouches at repressing/suppressing ethnic minorities. They hit back hard with the military, but if I remember correctly, the situation only really calmed down after decades of fighting, when, in addition to military force, they used talks and granted certain concessions to the Kurds. The Kurds renounced the use of force after this when their main leader was kidnapped from outside the country and put on trial in Turkey(subsequently sent to jail for life)Please correct me if I am wrong on this one.

Military force should be used, but talks and hearts and minds campaigns also need to be part of the equation. If not this will probably be a bloody conflict that lasts for decades. The more that force is used, the more outside help will come to back the insurgents-meaning, since it is muslims vs. non-muslims, serious jihadists and terrorists who make the stuff the insurgents do look gentle. It also makes it more likely for attacks to spread outside of these southern provinces. Who knows what role Malaysia will play if things get uglier?

Finally, we really have no idea what the securtiy forces have done in the South. Do you think they have maltreated anyone? Maybe killed innocents? America had opened torture facilities all over the place with its war on terror. We have a history of being against that. What do you think the Thai security forces are doing? Playing paddy cake with the insurgents?

[nick2k]

do you consider yourself muslim? and if so, how loyal are you to the words of the koran?

Are you nuts?

I am western European, and convinced agnostic.

you didn't answer my question...

do you consider yourself muslim? and if so, how loyal are you to the words of the koran?

as you know, being muslim doesn't have anything to do with race. you can be black and blue, orange, or

any other color for that matter.

there are people who believe in the koran all over the world - including europe.

[A_Traveller]

do you consider yourself muslim? and if so, how loyal are you to the words of the koran?

Are you nuts?

I am western European, and convinced agnostic.

you didn't answer my question...

do you consider yourself muslim? and if so, how loyal are you to the words of the koran?

as you know, being muslim doesn't have anything to do with race. you can be black and blue, orange, or

any other color for that matter.

there are people who believe in the koran all over the world - including europe.

With respect being agnostic would make it impossible for an individual to be a Muslim, therefore your question was answered.

Regards

PS In case you are wondering, an agnostic is someone who contends that the existence of God cannot be logically proved or disproved

[Mid]

two bob eachway granny would have said ......................

[A_Traveller]

two bob eachway granny would have said ......................

Since in my case the last time I went into a church the font boiled over......

Regards

[opothai]

bro, if you have been keeping up to date with what is happening down south, you will know these muslims down south are murdering on average about 100 "innocents" a month now. and it is escalating.

.

Military force should be used, but talks and hearts and minds campaigns also need to be part of the equation. If not this will probably be a bloody conflict that lasts for decades. The more that force is used, the more outside help will come to back the insurgents-meaning, since it is muslims vs. non-muslims, serious jihadists and terrorists who make the stuff the insurgents do look gentle. It also makes it more likely for attacks to spread outside of these southern provinces. Who knows what role Malaysia will play if things get uglier??

good points

this part iof the post i find most interestig.

the muslim insurgents will imho go for power amonst themselves, even if they did get concessions.

then it starts to be a fight amongst themselves to see how radical they will live.

will it be very radical

just a little radical

will it be moderate

all over the world the extremists have very different agendas, and they have no problem arguing amonst themselves as to who or what faction wants power,

take a look at palistine, iraq,and iran.

it seems to be the most violent of these factions will not accept middle ground.