AEC Freezes Thaksin's Assets, Proceeds From Shin Corp Sale

[sriracha john]

Thaksin sues Swiss banks

Ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra has slammed several commercial banks in Switzerland for having lost their credibility in preserving clients’ classified data and vowed to file lawsuits against them. Thaksin told Swiss newspaper Mittelland Zeitung, “Absolute discretion is a thing of the past." "Neither my family nor I has done anything illegal," he was quoted as saying. "It is defamation." He insisted that his money is clean. Thaksin denied all allegations of corruption against him.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=121384

==============================================================================

The tactics he is so used to employing while in Thailand will likely not have the same effect in Switzerland.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin 'to sue Swiss banks'

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has threatened to sue Swiss banks for allegedly freezing some of his money deposited with them, according to a Swiss newspaper.

However, the Assets Examination Committee and the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok denied any knowledge of a freeze on Thaksin's bank accounts in Switzerland, saying there had been no requests for such action.

The details remained sketchy yesterday about the amount of the money involved and whether the accounts involved belonged to the former premier or any of his family members.

Thaksin was reported as telling Swiss newspaper Mittelland Zeitung that he would sue Swiss banks for freezing his accounts and revealing a customer's confidential records.

The newspaper quoted Thaksin in advance extracts from an interview scheduled for publication on September 16.

"Good old bank secrecy is no more. Absolute discretion is a thing of the past," he said. Thaksin told the newspaper that he would be suing the Swiss banks "because my money is clean".

The AEC, set up to investigate corruption allegations against Thaksin and members of his Cabinet, yesterday said it had no idea what Thaksin was talking about. "The committee has not come to any resolution to freeze Thaksin's bank accounts [overseas]," AEC member Jaruvan Maintaka said.

She added that the panel did not even have contacts with those banks. AEC member Kaewsan Atibhodi said yesterday that the committee knew nothing about the matter. If the report was true, the Swiss banks might have moved on their own, he said.

Meanwhile, Jacques Lauer, an official of the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok, said Switzerland had no financial crime treaty with Thailand, so it would be hard for authorities here to make requests to impound Thaksin's assets domiciled there.

Swiss authorities would also never take action until Thaksin was found guilty with solid evidence, Lauer said.

Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said he could not comment on the report because he had been in China and had not communicated with Thaksin for a while.

- The Nation

==========================================================

Quite revealing that the international community, in the form of Swiss banking officials in this case, are now taking self-initiated actions against the ex-, former, prior PM.

OR....

They haven't done anything and Thaksin made all of this up and is just using it to keep his name in the news and increase his "martyr" status.

Either way, Thaksin comes out looking worse than before.... if that's possible.

Edited September 5, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

It's certainly getting a fair amount of airplay around the world...

Excerpts from AP:

Thaksin: Thai Case Politically Motivated

AARAU, Switzerland - Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said Thailand's pursuit of him is politically motivated and insisted that all his assets were acquired legally, a Swiss newspaper reported Wednesday.

While there is no indication he has any money stored in Switzerland, Thaksin was asked what he thought about the Swiss banking system. "The good old Swiss banking secrecy doesn't exist anymore. Absolute discretion is a thing of the past," he said.

Folco Galli, a spokesman for the Swiss federal prosecutor's office, said Thailand has made no request of Swiss authorities to investigate or freeze assets Thaksin may have in the country.

- Associated Press

Edited September 6, 2007 by sriracha john

[LaoPo]

Thaksin 'to sue Swiss banks'

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has threatened to sue Swiss banks for allegedly freezing some of his money deposited with them, according to a Swiss newspaper.

However, the Assets Examination Committee and the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok denied any knowledge of a freeze on Thaksin's bank accounts in Switzerland, saying there had been no requests for such action.

The details remained sketchy yesterday about the amount of the money involved and whether the accounts involved belonged to the former premier or any of his family members.

Thaksin was reported as telling Swiss newspaper Mittelland Zeitung that he would sue Swiss banks for freezing his accounts and revealing a customer's confidential records.

The newspaper quoted Thaksin in advance extracts from an interview scheduled for publication on September 16.

"Good old bank secrecy is no more. Absolute discretion is a thing of the past," he said. Thaksin told the newspaper that he would be suing the Swiss banks "because my money is clean".

The AEC, set up to investigate corruption allegations against Thaksin and members of his Cabinet, yesterday said it had no idea what Thaksin was talking about. "The committee has not come to any resolution to freeze Thaksin's bank accounts [overseas]," AEC member Jaruvan Maintaka said.

She added that the panel did not even have contacts with those banks. AEC member Kaewsan Atibhodi said yesterday that the committee knew nothing about the matter. If the report was true, the Swiss banks might have moved on their own, he said.

Meanwhile, Jacques Lauer, an official of the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok, said Switzerland had no financial crime treaty with Thailand, so it would be hard for authorities here to make requests to impound Thaksin's assets domiciled there.

Swiss authorities would also never take action until Thaksin was found guilty with solid evidence, Lauer said.

Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said he could not comment on the report because he had been in China and had not communicated with Thaksin for a while.

- The Nation

==========================================================

1. Quite revealing that the international community, in the form of Swiss banking officials in this case, are now taking self-initiated actions against the ex-, former, prior PM.

OR....

2. They haven't done anything and Thaksin made all of this up and is just using it to keep his name in the news and increase his "martyr" status.

1. A(ny) Swiss Bank would and could never do that. Swiss Banks' confidentiality rules are extremely strict and they would NEVER take self-initiated actions, against ANY of their clients. Any Swiss Bank board official could even end up in jail for doing so.

2. Possible but very unlikely; however it's more likely that Thai authorities requested information and were denied so by Swiss Bank(s) and/or Justice, (but of course this will be denied by both the Swiss and Thai authorities).

Swiss Banks handle such cases with the utmost confidentiality. We shouldn't forget that Swiss Banks have a dubious reputation (WWII).....they are sharks of the most dangerous kind, and and will try to avoid, at any cost, an uproar in the Press about themselves and their so-called 'secrecy', especially when it concerns high amounts of money from their clients.

Switzerland has quite a few very wealthy clients, also from LOS, including a family not-to-be-named-here. They simply cannot afford a big scandal....very slippery ice.

Maybe someone knows too much...?

Apart from that: "Switzerland had no financial crime treaty with Thailand".

Only in cases where drugs-related money is involved they will, reluctantly, give/provide information, but only after a long, tough and bitter fight between the best possible Tax-Lawyers companies in the world and ONLY if the Swiss Bank involved is ordered to provide information by the Swiss Ministry of Justice.

It is commonly known that foreign justice departments falsely accused Swiss bank clients of involvement with drugs and 'informed' Swiss Justice about the, non-existing, 'drug-backgrounds' of those certain clients, just trying to get hold of stashed-away money.

But the Swiss will NOT provide info in the case of tax-evasion or tax-laundry money.

LaoPo

[John K]

There is a twist on this, and it is a bit too soon for me to say what it is. Possibly the sympathy card or just another venue to say I am not guilty.

[Plus]

AP doesn't report that Thaksin lost access to any of his assets in Switzerland.

Maybe Thais got lost in translation again.

[John K]

AP doesn't report that Thaksin lost access to any of his assets in Switzerland.

Maybe Thais got lost in translation again.

Could set Thaksin up to get sued on defamation charges then if that is the case. A few more days will tell I would guess. That would be a very interesting backfire if that turns out to be the case.

One constant still remains, if Thaksin said it, it’s probably opposite the truth.

Edited September 6, 2007 by John K

[sriracha john]

Thaksin 'to sue Swiss banks'

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has threatened to sue Swiss banks for allegedly freezing some of his money deposited with them, according to a Swiss newspaper.

==========================================================

1. Quite revealing that the international community, in the form of Swiss banking officials in this case, are now taking self-initiated actions against the ex-, former, prior PM.

OR....

2. They haven't done anything and Thaksin made all of this up and is just using it to keep his name in the news and increase his "martyr" status.

1. A(ny) Swiss Bank would and could never do that. Swiss Banks' confidentiality rules are extremely strict and they would NEVER take self-initiated actions, against ANY of their clients. Any Swiss Bank board official could even end up in jail for doing so.

2. Possible but very unlikely; however it's more likely that Thai authorities requested information and were denied so by Swiss Bank(s) and/or Justice, (but of course this will be denied by both the Swiss and Thai authorities).

Swiss Banks handle such cases with the utmost confidentiality. We shouldn't forget that Swiss Banks have a dubious reputation (WWII).....they are sharks of the most dangerous kind, and and will try to avoid, at any cost, an uproar in the Press about themselves and their so-called 'secrecy', especially when it concerns high amounts of money from their clients.

It's not the requesting info bit, it's the actual freezing of monies that is most newsworthy.

Do you think the money in his Swiss accounts is frozen or not?

If it is, then it's #1.... if it's not, then it's #2. Or is there a #3?

[John K]

SJ, the more I think about this the more I think Thaksin is trying to portray himself as some sort of victim. If in fact he does have money in Swiss banks and it was not disclosed then it supports one of the cases against him. At the least this is a very risky statement on Thaksin’s part. It assumes he is not coming back anytime soon and blowing off any criminal action charges. It also plays the sympathy card for if and when the political climate in Thailand once again favors Thaksin. I would need to say #3 it is just one piece of Thaksin’s comeback plan.

[sriracha john]

Ousted Thai premier angry with Swiss banks

Swiss banks have also frozen some of Thaksin's money, according to the interview.

- Reuters

AP doesn't report that Thaksin lost access to any of his assets in Switzerland.

Maybe Thais got lost in translation again.

The original non-Thai Reuters article specifically details he has frozen money in Swiss accounts..... at least according to Thaksin it is.

[John K]

Going a step back, this was not to have hit the press until September 16. What things are in Que other than the possible Sonthi replacement announcement between now and then. Also it was a Swiss interview. This is much deeper than it appears I feel. This story has way too much political value for Thaksin to be coincidence.

[joe beets]

This seems to be a Reuters story, so I'll quote from their (probably) authoritative version

(http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKBKK10532120070905):

"He also criticised the military government's record in office. 'The hopes of the country's poor for a better life have been shattered,' Thaksin said"

Priceless.

Very #2.

In all senses.

Vintage Thaksin tantrum.

How can we miss him when he refuses to go away?

jb

[sriracha john]

Seems more and more like it's #2.

Thailand Outlook channel is reporting that the Swiss banks are now denying any knowledge of a freeze, the AEC denies they asked for a freeze, the Swiss ambassador denies that there is a freeze, the Swiss government prosecutor denies there is a freeze and that everyone is perplexed by Thaksin's claims that his money in Swiss banks is frozen .

Wonder what kind of defamation laws the Swiss banks can invoke against him for speaking in such a derogatory manner about them to a world-wide audience?

Edited September 6, 2007 by sriracha john

[John K]

Ahhh Thaksin making more friends around the world in his own special way. Still too soon to tell, but I still feel there is political value here for Thaksin.

Perhaps he needs to disclose just what accounts, what amount was frozen, and from what graft scam the money came from to begin with. If this backfires on Thaksin, he will be left with a credibility issue on a global scale.

[Tony Clifton]

He's a brave little fleeing Emperor to make such accusations while abroad without his army.

There's always a possibility that he's been targeted abroad by an independent major investigation for a while already.

Without the AEC and Thai govt. being yet aware of it , he may have recently been interrogated abroad (visa, residency, tax, money laundering) about suspicious banking methods. Swiss banks are denying any knowledge of a freeze but are not denying any mention of an ongoing investigation.

Some questions asked during the interrogation may have triggered him to blow his lid later on when bank accounts known to no one but him were mentioned, later threatening to sue Swiss Banks over accounts that would have otherwise never been discovered.

Anyway, when under pressure, his stupid mouth always ends up betraying him, with his latest comment, he wasn't thinking two moves ahead, he reacted to something that doesn't please him.

[Plus]

This was a preview of an interview, it appeared on Reuters and AP, not the Swiss newspaper that is going to publish it on Sep 16. Or maybe not.

[sriracha john]

Here's how to separate #1 from #2....

ASC challenges Thaksin to sue Swiss banks

Assets Scrutiny Committee spokesman Sak Korsaengruang challenged deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra to sue Swiss banks for allegedly freezing his family assets. Mr Sak said the ASC has not made any contact with the banks to clarify why they freeze his assets, and what they have as evidence against Thaksin. If Thaksin is filing a suit against the banks as reported by international media, then the truth behind the matter will be known, he said. Mr Sak's response came after a Swiss newspaper quoted Thaksin as saying that he would sue the banks "because my money is clean." Mr Sak confirmed that the Shinawatra family members own bank accounts in Switzerland, but he denied to say whether they are under Thaksin's name.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=121411

=================================================

The committee has apparently come across knowledge of some funds in Switzerland under his control.

[John K]

I wonder if Thaksin got a piece of the 60-20-20? Someone told him something that was not exactly true and he reacted if it was 100% true.

Good call by the ASC to call him on this one. This is heading south very fast for Thaksin in the credibility department.

[cclub75]

Anyway, when under pressure, his stupid mouth always ends up betraying him, with his latest comment, he wasn't thinking two moves ahead, he reacted to something that doesn't please him.

It's obvious.

His statement about "good old banl secrecy" is clearly a huge mistake. And this explains why the swiss newspaper in a hurry gave the info to press agencies, prior to publish it.

Even with an extreme perversion, how could he gain -on a political level- with such statement ? Doesn't make any sense.

We know that Thaksin, contrary to many other thai people, love to speak like a CEO.

The guy is angry. He ######ed up.

Now it's official : we know that he has funds in Swizterland, and that he loves "bank secrecy" and "absolute discretion".

What a jerk.

Anyway : we can't be surprised. It comes from a man who owned companies in BVI (off shore paradise for cheaters) WHILE he was Prime Minister of Thailand !

And that he loves nominees (asset concealment case in 2001).

Edited September 6, 2007 by cclub75

[Solosiam]

Only in cases where drugs-related money is involved they will, reluctantly, give/provide information, but only after a long, tough and bitter fight between the best possible Tax-Lawyers companies in the world and ONLY if the Swiss Bank involved is ordered to provide information by the Swiss Ministry of Justice.

It is commonly known that foreign justice departments falsely accused Swiss bank clients of involvement with drugs and 'informed' Swiss Justice about the, non-existing, 'drug-backgrounds' of those certain clients, just trying to get hold of stashed-away money.

But the Swiss will NOT provide info in the case of tax-evasion or tax-laundry money.

LaoPo

Is this still the case with the USA and Europe chasing terrorist money?

[John K]

To expand on that cclub75; whatever else is in that interview will now come across as a pile of lies. I think there were some hints along the way on anti junta and so on. I hope the rest of the world learns very quickly what Thailand knows already about Thaksin. That is to never trust what Thaksin says.

[LaoPo]

1. It's not the requesting info bit, it's the actual freezing of monies that is most newsworthy.

2. Do you think the money in his Swiss accounts is frozen or not?

3. If it is, then it's #1.... if it's not, then it's #2. Or is there a #3?

1. I think it IS about the requesting info. They (Thai government/prosecutor/ACS) can't go to the banks themselves (won't give info) so they have to go to the Swiss Justice who might have contacted the bank(s). On their turn they info the client that they received a report/request; than any client can fight the accusations if there are any. Can take a long time. The client doesn't do that himself; the Lawyers do so.

2. That's why it would surprise me IF they had already frozen the accounts; many accounts are not in names but in #'s and won't reveal the name(s) instantly, only after long procedures. It could be that that happened and that the ACS was working on it already for a long time; that doesn't mean the actual accounts are frozen (already).

3. Yes, there could be a scenario # 3. But it's pure guessing what that would be. It could be possible that the 'warnings' Mr. T. sent out was about revealing that he has/had indeed Swiss accounts and is making a lot of noise now, warning the Swiss Banks he's not going to 'take it' and will sue them, if necessary. Swiss Banks are very wary of such legal procedures against them, specially if they end up in the Press. Swiss Bank secrecy is 'Holy' in Switzerland and they don't like accusations from their clients since it could harm the Swiss bank system on an enormous scale.

But, everything is misty and of course I'm on the sideline like all of us.

As to the question of terrorist money: Yes, Swiss Justice and Banks have been and are still under enormous pressure, also especially from the US to give and supply info about suspicious accounts; and the Banks DO give info, not only about 'Arab' money but 'normal' US clients as well...(IRS Hunt).

LaoPo

[slimdog]

Personally I think the most likely scenario is #3

The Bank he is talking about is most likely UBS AG. (Head Office, Zurich)

UBS supplied a lot of details to both the SEC and ASC regarding the Shin Corp deal, which they were involved with through their Singapore Office.

UBS have an office in Thailand (Wireless Road), and there main functions are asset management and Stock trading through UBS Securities. (They are licensed stock brokers with the SET)

As the ASC has stated that all frozen accounts are in Thailand, then it is most likely that Thaksin or family members placed some of their money from the Shin Corp sale in the Hands of UBS Securities, and after informing the ASC of these accounts, these accounts have since been frozen by an order of the ASC (Which has the same authority as both the NCCC and AMLO, which are allowed to freeze asets for a temporary period of time if they believe that assets maybe transfered or hidden prior to a court order)

In which case, whilst misleading, it would be true to say that details of assets owned by Thaksin or his family have been given to Thai authorities by a "Swiss Bank" and that subsequently those assets have since been frozen. What would make Thaksin angry would be the knowledge that UBS froze accounts because the ASC believed that there were irregularities on the deal, when UBS were fully aware of all the details of the Shin Corp deal as they played a major advisory role on the deal.

Anyway that my theory....

[Plus]

The banks are afraid of publicity if it harms their reputation but they won't be easily intimidated by obvious lies - we've got quite a few official denials already. At one point they might even decide to sue Thaksin for defamation.

He would.

[Tony Clifton]

Edited September 6, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[LaoPo]

The banks are afraid of publicity if it harms their reputation but they won't be easily intimidated by obvious lies - we've got quite a few official denials already. At one point they might even decide to sue Thaksin for defamation.

He would.

Slimdog's scenario could be possible, if the assets were still in Thailand with a Swiss bank's sub branch, since this bank would have to follow Thai Law, not their own Swiss Laws.

But, I think only the Swiss BKK branch, ACS and T. himself know where the money is. Apart from that it remains to be seen if the Swiss bank can or is allowed to act as a normal Thai bank (holding cash assets) and the assets could have been moved to Switzerland. In that case it would be more difficult to freeze the assets.

But to say that a bank is intimidated or not by lies is not relevant.

They will follow the outcome of a Lawsuit, not possible lies.

The point is that if Mr. T. could prove the assets were of prior-wrong doing (if found guilty), the freeze would be undone at a certain point.

Meaning, if a collector/prosecutor wants your money he could freeze your total bank accounts and assets, including, for instance your house, but if the money is only a part of the of the owed debt(s) and the debts are paid at a certain point, the rest will be unfrozen.

I assume the already frozen money in LOS would be more than enough to satisfy the Thai prosecutors, but I could be wrong.

It's to become a Lawsuit (or many, in T's case) but the outcome is, at the least, still very uncertain.

We shouldn't forget that Mr. T., during his years in office, probably had access to inside -financial- info about LOTS of high-so people in Thailand and those people really do not want him to face trial...he might want to drag down quite a few of them also.

After all, TIT, and it will take a long time, if not years, before we know the outcome, no matter all the allegations he's facing now.

In the end...? I think deals will be made....

LaoPo

[AlexLah]

Are their any other banks/countries where you can 'hide' your money?

Why do Swisss banks have that right?

What does 'Lydia' think about all this?

[LaoPo]

1. Are their any other banks/countries where you can 'hide' your money?

2. Why do Swisss banks have that right?

3. What does 'Lydia' think about all this?

1. Yes: http://confidentialbanking.com/top10-tax-havens.htm

2. Because "banks are legalized mafia" as a banker once told me, and the Swiss are the ultimate masters because of their own Laws and do not belong to the EU, but have been under great pressure by the EU in recent years and agreed to inform individual EU-countries about the interest on 'secret' accounts and pay according taxes to those countries but NOT inform them from which -individual- accounts the taxes come from.

3. Who's Lydia ?

LaoPo

[Tony Clifton]

The banks are afraid of publicity if it harms their reputation but they won't be easily intimidated by obvious lies - we've got quite a few official denials already. At one point they might even decide to sue Thaksin for defamation.

He would.

Slimdog's scenario could be possible, if the assets were still in Thailand with a Swiss bank's sub branch, since this bank would have to follow Thai Law, not their own Swiss Laws.

But, I think only the Swiss BKK branch, ACS and T. himself know where the money is. Apart from that it remains to be seen if the Swiss bank can or is allowed to act as a normal Thai bank (holding cash assets) and the assets could have been moved to Switzerland. In that case it would be more difficult to freeze the assets.

But to say that a bank is intimidated or not by lies is not relevant.

They will follow the outcome of a Lawsuit, not possible lies.

The point is that if Mr. T. could prove the assets were of prior-wrong doing (if found guilty), the freeze would be undone at a certain point.

Meaning, if a collector/prosecutor wants your money he could freeze your total bank accounts and assets, including, for instance your house, but if the money is only a part of the of the owed debt(s) and the debts are paid at a certain point, the rest will be unfrozen.

I assume the already frozen money in LOS would be more than enough to satisfy the Thai prosecutors, but I could be wrong.

It's to become a Lawsuit (or many, in T's case) but the outcome is, at the least, still very uncertain.

We shouldn't forget that Mr. T., during his years in office, probably had access to inside -financial- info about LOTS of high-so people in Thailand and those people really do not want him to face trial...he might want to drag down quite a few of them also.

After all, TIT, and it will take a long time, if not years, before we know the outcome, no matter all the allegations he's facing now.

In the end...? I think deals will be made....

LaoPo

The man has gone way beyond any possibility of deals on too many issues, especially one that can not be discussed here.

Lydia is the Thai singer Thaksin is seen with these days.

Believe it or not, after the publication of the book "Thaksin Where Are You?", Lydia's new show is called "Here I Am". (Enjoy the carreer while it lasts)

[LaoPo]

The man has gone way beyond any possibility of deals on too many issues, especially one that can not be discussed here.

We'll see Tony....it will take a long time before we know the final results.

I'm just observing and not emotionally involved...

LaoPo