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[bina]

What do thai say to each other for birthday salutations: we say 'may u live until 120 like 20(yrs) ); or mazel tov (good luck, congrats)... i need to make a cake for three people and want to write something in thai on the cake; if someone could write also the translit.. and the thai, much appreciated.... the cake is for three issan thai speakers...

also, when or how do thai people count their age; i was born in 1962 that means i will be 42 this year but they say i will be 43 as they count one year from the day they were born... is this correct?

[Richard W]

'Happy birthday' = สุขสันต์ วันเกิด /suk' san+ wan- kEEt'/ in Siamese in the scheme of soc.culture.thai Language FAQ. Don't know about the Isaan tones, though!

Just to be unhelpful, the official transliteration (i.e. letter for letter) is probably best rendered in a normal font as ~su~kh~s.ant\ w.ankeid. (The diacritics are encoded as follows: ~ is a bar above the following letter, the fullstop is a dot below the following letter, and the backslash is a hook above the previous letter.)

They seem to follow the European, rather than the Chinese, way of counting.

[john b good]

What do thai say to each other for birthday salutations: we say 'may u live until 120 like 20(yrs) ); or mazel tov (good luck, congrats)... i need to make a cake for three people and want to write something in thai on the cake; if someone could write also the translit.. and the thai, much appreciated.... the cake is for three issan thai speakers...

also, when or how do thai people count their age; i was born in 1962 that means i will be 42 this year but they say i will be 43 as they count one year from the day they were born... is this correct?

I believe the correct salutation (for happy birthday) is "suk saan wan geert"

The likely response may well be "thanks but where is my present then"

[Edward B]

What do thai say to each other for birthday salutations: we say 'may u live until 120 like 20(yrs) ); or mazel tov (good luck, congrats)... i need to make a cake for three people and want to write something in thai on the cake; if someone could write also the translit.. and the thai, much appreciated.... the cake is for three issan thai speakers...

สุขสันต์ วันเกิด = Happy Birthday.

also, when or how do thai people count their age; i was born in 1962 that means i will be 42 this year but they say i will be 43 as they count one year from the day they were born... is this correct?

Interesting...I just asked my Thai/Chinese friend and she says that Thailand use the same system as the West for counting ages. However, in China they start from 1, not 0, and so everyone in China is 1 year older. On top of that, they ignore the month you are born, and so if you are 30, you would immediately turn 31 on the first day of the (Chinese) new year. Are your friends Chinese by any chance?

Being the doubting Thiomas that I am, I wouldn't mind some confirmation on this though.

[bina]

thanks for the reponses...its definately printed as two words and not as a typical long thai sentence?? and i have to copy that onto a cake... worse than writing arabic....... what happens if i get a squiggle wrong? will it change the words to something horrible??

these guys for the most part are about as laos issan as u can get with one or two from buriram (kmer speakers); they dont really seem to celebrate birthdays very much.... lack of money probably, cause i asked about their kids back home, if they send gifts, cards something to wife and kids on birthday.phone call whatever...and they dont... they dont seem to know exactly how old they are or how old their kids are either. nor do they seem to remember their birthday date in thai or in the western calendar year/month. it just doesnt seem so important to them. with us its a major (or)deal involving extended family big meal cake presents (money) etc. maybe in thailand its different then when working in a foreign land.?

i think they indeed count from 1 and not 0; i guess cause you are born therefore yuo are something (1) and not nothing which is symbolized by the number (0).

do they go by the year of the cow whatever for horoscope? or by the western zodiac thingy? just curious to know...

[Richard W]

thanks for the reponses...its definately printed as two words and not as a typical long thai sentence?? and i have to copy that onto a cake... worse than writing arabic....... what happens if i get a squiggle wrong? will it change the words to something horrible??

A quick Internet search gives a ratio of 3040:151 in favour of an unbroken phrase. However, you can break it in the middle if you need to.

and i have to copy that onto a cake... worse than writing arabic....... what happens if i get a squiggle wrong? will it change the words to something horrible?

I had a search for Thai brithday cakes on the internet, but the only one I could find with writing on said 'Groovy Chick' (in English)! The best hint I can think of as to what you can get away with is to look at the LilyUPC font if you have it.

You don't need all the squiggles. I presume you know that the writing of a Thai letter starts at the terminal loop.

A few thoughts:

The diagonal at the top right of ส is needed to distinguish it from ล, but it can be reduced to a blob. Alternatively, you can loop back from the top-left hand corner and cross your path to make the diagonal. I don't lift my pen or back-track when I write ส.

Keep the back of ข straight - ช has a 'broken back'. ข can actually look like a small gamma standing on the line. A flat base is totally unnecessary, and I don't remember seeing it in handwriting.

The vowel sign of สุข can just be a blob, though a downward pointing comma is better.

The vowel sign of สัน should curve down and then up. It can be indistinguishable from mai tho in some handwriting.

The loop at the bottom (or not) is the key feature in distinguishing บ ม น. In some styles, น can look like a loopless script small 'u'. In others, the letter consists of two vertical lines with a connection from bottom left to above bottom right (and ม has a connection from above bottom left to bottom right).

ก can look like an upside down 'v'. A rounded top looks a lot nicer, though. The kink is just a touch of class.

The mai thanthakhat in ต์ can be a comma pointing right or diagonally right and upwards. The kink in the top of the consonant is important; it distinguishes it from ด I recommend that the initial, diagonal curve from the middle to the bottom left should turn through an obtuse angle when it becomes vertical, the shape being a sort of spiral. This angle will distinguishes it from ค. In some styles, the rounded corner is all that is left of the downward diagonal.

The 'i' vowel sign in เกิด can be reduced to the upper curved half, and may be slanted over the top right hand corner. I would draw it from (lower) right to (upper) left. Incidentally, the 'e' vowel should be drawn from bottom up.

I'm open to correction - I'm not a calligrapher!

do they go by the year of the cow whatever for horoscope? or by the western zodiac thingy? just curious to know...

They use both the animal name for the year and the signs of the zodiac. The months are named after the signs of the zodiac! Some Thais magazines carry horoscopes like European (or at least, British) ones, but I couldn't find any in my wife's when I looked to check the dates they use. The birth signs aren't aligned with the months, but I've a feeling the dates are different to ours. (Western signs of the zodiac are no longer aligned with the physical constellations!)

[Johpa]

I believe the correct salutation (for happy birthday) is "suk saan wan geert"

Funny, the only thing I hear Thai people say to each other on a birthday other than "kin khao leew ruu yang" is "hapee birtday" using the English phrase.

[bina]

thanx for the input; i'll leave it to my eldest daughter to do the calligraphy, and i'll provide the lao khao (in this case cheap russian made in israel vodka, yuck)

The other thing i noticed at all parties, is that they smear cake on eachother. why is that? (in place of powder or flour?) i dont go to parties in my silk best because of that..

[Richard W]

I believe the correct salutation (for happy birthday) is "suk saan wan geert"

Funny, the only thing I hear Thai people say to each other on a birthday other than "kin khao leew ruu yang" is "hapee birtday" using the English phrase.

They do write and say สุขสันต์วันเกิด. One Thai London restauranteur I know specifically cautions his staff not to wish customers 'happy birthday' in Thai in case they don't hear the unexploded ด and become violent!

One thing I've noticed is that in Thailand the second line of 'Happy Birthday' is 'Happy Birthday! Happy Birthday!' instead of 'Happy Birthday Dear X!'. I presume this is because the tune would mangle the tone of the name.

[RamdomChances]

Hi bina

Most thai people count from 1 ie your first year. on your first birhtday you would come into your 2nd year therfore 2.

Saying this some thais will also say "24 yr old dtem" dtem as in full

Thais outside of tourist areas/cities dont usualy make a big deal out of birhtdays

I've had many birthday parties and been to some, wishing them a Happy birthday(or expecting them to wish you) is usually neither expected or nessesary, but is always appreciated.

"suk saan wan geert" is about the closest you'll get to happy birthday

"Wan geert" literelly day born has an uncanny resemblance when spoken to "######" dont know if that means anything in your particular language but british people will get it!!

[Rinrada]

"One thing I've noticed is that in Thailand the second line of 'Happy Birthday' is 'Happy Birthday! Happy Birthday!' instead of 'Happy Birthday Dear X!'. I presume this is because the tune would mangle the tone of the name. "

Gives the ladies a chance to stop dancing....

Usually goes:

hapee birtday to yu,from all of uz 2,hapee birtday,hapee birtday, hapeeeee birtdaaaay to yu

[bina]

"suk saan wan geert" is about the closest you'll get to happy birthday

"Wan geert" literelly day born has an uncanny resemblance when spoken to "######" dont know if that means anything in your particular language but british people will get it!!

"

They do write and say สุขสันต์วันเกิด. One Thai London restauranteur I know specifically cautions his staff not to wish customers 'happy birthday' in Thai in case they don't hear the unexploded ด and become violent!"

Run that past me again? and could the moderators not censor for a minute so i can see what the ### was? i'm a grown woman i can handle bad language if we are discussing linguistics here

the double happy birthday is not just thai but seems to be everywhere that non english speakers use the song, also the israelis, and other groups too... maybe cause the 'dear xxx' is personal and they sing the song as just a birthday song among many....i used to correct the kids here but gave up.... hapee birday it is among all non anglos...

i know that they dont expect wishes etc... but as the 'unofficial representative' of employers i.e. i'm the only one to relate and enjoy being with the thai workers and attempt to speak the lingo , i always bring a useful and flashy or large present: a fancy shirt, aftershave (they love the women's scents go figure), big picture frame for wife's photo etc. as a present depending of course on lenght of time here, status etc. which is probably more than most kibbutz and moshav employers do for their workers, unfortunately.

i'll stick to 'mazel tov'

[davethailand]

rappy wirthday?

[Richard W]

"suk saan wan geert" is about the closest you'll get to happy birthday

"Wan geert" literelly day born has an uncanny resemblance when spoken to "######" dont know if that means anything in your particular language but british people will get it!!

"

They do write and say สุขสันต์วันเกิด. One Thai London restauranteur I know specifically cautions his staff not to wish customers 'happy birthday' in Thai in case they don't hear the unexploded ด and become violent!"

Run that past me again? and could the moderators not censor for a minute so i can see what the ### was? i'm a grown woman i can handle bad language if we are discussing linguistics here

วันเกิด can reasonably be transcribed as ######d. Drop the 'd' and you get, in Bartleby's words,

NOUN: Chiefly British Vulgar Slang 1. A person who masturbates. 2. A detestable person.

I don't know whether there's any hazard in the สุขสันต์ part. Remember that short 'u' is normally pronunced as in 'put' 'oop North'. I think it's a little far-fetched to think the first part might be misunderstood as, 'Suck some'.

[pinn]

http://www.pinpointt...29_Entry_1.html

[rak sa_ngop]

http://www.pinpointt...29_Entry_1.html

She's great!

Definitely worth bookmarking this link for future Birthday greetings.

Also worth noting how she pronounces เกิด and transliterates it as kəət

I firmly believe that many learners of Thai have never learnt to pronounce ก correctly because they use the transliteration schemes that represent ก as g, therefore pronouncing เกิด as gert or something similar.

Instead I like the k and kh schemes where k represents ก and kh represents ข or ค

ก is an inbetween sound between an English g sound (voiced) and an English k sound (aspirated). I think of the Thai ก as an unvoiced and unaspirated sound although in practice there has to be a slight puff of air in order to transmit the sound.

I have one friend who prides himself on his excellent Thai skills but he will never sound like a fluent Thai speaker to me. His pronounciation of กัน sounds like the English word 'gun' and it really grates on me because I have never heard a Thai or Laos person speak like that. ( A bit like many European English speakers not being able to say 'birthday' correctly and saying 'birzday' instead)

And if you can't pronounce วันเกิด correctly, suggest you don't try it in the East End of London as you might get your lights punched out.

[FireInTheSky]

http://www.pinpointt...29_Entry_1.html

I firmly believe that many learners of Thai have never learnt to pronounce ก correctly because they use the transliteration schemes that represent ก as g, therefore pronouncing เกิด as gert or something similar.

Instead I like the k and kh schemes where k represents ก and kh represents ข or ค

ก is an inbetween sound between an English g sound (voiced) and an English k sound (aspirated). I think of the Thai ก as an unvoiced and unaspirated sound although in practice there has to be a slight puff of air in order to transmit the sound.

I have one friend who prides himself on his excellent Thai skills but he will never sound like a fluent Thai speaker to me. His pronounciation of กัน sounds like the English word 'gun' and it really grates on me because I have never heard a Thai or Laos person speak like that. ( A bit like many European English speakers not being able to say 'birthday' correctly and saying 'birzday' instead)

And if you can't pronounce วันเกิด correctly, suggest you don't try it in the East End of London as you might get your lights punched out.

I think the word that might be a good example to hear this ชัดๆ and practice with might be the very common "แล้วก็". I think you have to feel this one a little bit Just listen to it a lot and eventually the less G your ก will become and the more unaspired K or something like that