UK Capped Pension

[PaDavid]

I’m sure that most of you reading this will have seen the petition doing the rounds. I, like many others, have signed AND shared it. I can’t really see this doing any good. It may just reach 10,000 signatures, at which point the government is required to respond. But, I’m sure all it will do is trot out the old chestnut regarding social security agreements. The petition has no chance of reaching the 100,000 level at which point it has to be considered for debate in parliament. 
 

So, I have decided on another track. I’m still registered to vote in UK, so I’m writing to my MP. This is not the first time I’ve written, but my first attempt was a bit emotive and received the bog standard response. So, I’ve drafted a second attempt which I think is much more objective. 
 

Please read and let me know if you have any comments or observations. Once I’ve considered these, I’ll produce the final version for emailing to my MP. Assuming AN allow me, I’ll publish it here, so that those of you who too are registered to vote can lobby your own MP. Incidentally, I haven’t included here Photo 1 which is a map of the world showing countries which are and are not affected by the legislation. But, most of you will have seen this anyway. 

 

Dear xxxxxxx
 

The following is basically what you sent me in response to my first email. It is an extract from the gov.uk website. 

 

Your State Pension will only increase each year if you live in:

• countries that have a social security agreement with the UK (but you cannot get increases in Canada or New Zealand)

You will not get yearly increases if you live outside these countries.

 

For your information, the top photo below shows in red the countries which do have this supposed social security agreement. 

 

The following are the questions/points I would ask you to consider concerning this:

 

1. What exactly are these social security agreements? 
2. Why are Canada and New Zealand (and possibly Australia) excluded when such agreements do exist there?
3. Are such agreements still in place in all EU states now that the UK is no longer a member of the union?
4. A social security agreement implies some sort of benefit for expats living in a country where there is one. Surely then, if you were going to effectively reduce pensions, it would make more sense to do so in the countries where expats enjoy these benefits, not in countries where they don’t!
5. The state pension is effectively a contributory pension paid for from NI contributions. See photo 2 below. If any employer tried to use such a feeble excuse for reducing pension payouts to a group of its pension fund members, there would be an outcry. And, there is no organisation which can challenge the ruling. The pensions’ ombudsman, for example, will not deal with problems concerning the government. 
6. This, in my opinion, is a form of age related discrimination. Discrimination against pensioners who choose to spend there final days abroad. 

 

Please consider the above, and if you agree there is a case, could I ask that you raise the matter in The House.
 

I would be grateful for a response, if only to tell me how my points/questions are flawed, and why you have decided not to raise the matter. 

 

Kind regards

 

David

 

 

 

 

[Eff1n2ret]

You're absolutely right about these petitions, they're largely a waste of time, a bit of Blair window-dressing to pretend that "the people" have a voice. Almost none of them have made any difference. If the number is more than 100k, all that happens is there is a debate in Parliament, probably not well-attended, the Government trots out the official line and that's that. If the number is under 100k, Sir Humphrey can say, "Well, Minister, there isn't much support for the proposal, we don't need to review our policy." In my opinion these petitions are a snare and a delusion, and I don't sign any of them any more.

It might interest you to know that there is an All-Party Parliamentary Group on expat matters such as voting rights and our frozen pensions led by Sir Roger Gale MP, and they do succeed occasionally in getting a debate (unfortunately with much the same result on pensions,  but the Government has moved on voting rights, which will be restored to all British expats, however long they've been outside the UK). So it's not a bad idea to write to your MP.

[PaDavid]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

You're absolutely right about these petitions, they're largely a waste of time, a bit of Blair window-dressing to pretend that "the people" have a voice. Almost none of them have made any difference. If the number is more than 100k, all that happens is there is a debate in Parliament, probably not well-attended, the Government trots out the official line and that's that. If the number is under 100k, Sir Humphrey can say, "Well, Minister, there isn't much support for the proposal, we don't need to review our policy." In my opinion these petitions are a snare and a delusion, and I don't sign any of them any more.

It might interest you to know that there is an All-Party Parliamentary Group on expat matters such as voting rights and our frozen pensions led by Sir Roger Gale MP, and they do succeed occasionally in getting a debate (unfortunately with much the same result on pensions,  but the Government has moved on voting rights, which will be restored to all British expats, however long they've been outside the UK). So it's not a bad idea to write to your MP.

I’ve also recently been advised by my district council that in future I’ll only need to re-register my vote every 5 years instead of annually as at present. Possibly another of Sir Roger Gale’s group’s successes. I’ll look the guy up on the parliament website. Maybe write to him too. 

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, PaDavid said:

I’ve also recently been advised by my district council that in future I’ll only need to re-register my vote every 5 years instead of annually as at present. Possibly another of Sir Roger Gale’s group’s successes. I’ll look the guy up on the parliament website. Maybe write to him too. 

I haven't heard similar from my local council, and I'm a little bit surprised as I thought the annual re-registration is merely mirroring the form which I had to submit to the council every year declaring how many residents were at my address. One of the Parliamentary Group's successes is the promised legislation this session abolishing Blair's 15-year limit on expat voting rights. Whether there will ever be any change on the "frozen pensions" issue I very much doubt. At a time when there are huge pressures on public expenditure (when weren't there?) our case is not a priority. The status quo has existed for years, and the argument is that it was your choice to come and live in a "frozen" country, and if you didn't know about it, som nam na.

I have no means of establishing a figure, but I suspect from the comments made in national newspapers whenever this topic is discussed that a large percentage, probably a majority, of our fellow citizens in the UK either don't care or think we are lucky to get any pension at all; in their eyes we have somehow let the side down by emigrating, and I have seen the belief expressed that we "don't contribute to the economy", so we should be grateful for what we get - completely ignoring the fact that most UK pensioners continue to pay UK income tax, as I do, and  our contribution in cost-savings to the NHS is also disregarded. As an expat body our voting strength is dissipated across 650 constituencies, so there is absolutely nothing in it for any political party to give this issue any priority at all.