Can The Thai Army Protect Anyone In Thailand?

[Gary A]

I would give the three provinces to the muslims

Songkhla ??

At the most narrow point just north of Songkla is the ideal point to build a wall across.

[chevykanteve]

How ironic that this military Junta, when playing governing, fails in this most basic of tasks and has let the situation in the South deteriorate...

Nice sound-bite ......

The question is .... what do you with your vast knowledge of the topic and even greater experience, suggest they do?

Sorry son, not my job. I did not stage a Coup d'etat, deploy tanks, soldiers and munitions in the capital city, in order to seize power. The Junta did that and now must exercise their power in an appropriate way. Sadly they are not doing this and are more interested in playing out games of counter-coups than solving problems.

At least I have enough knowledge and experience to not stage a coup here to put any theories of dispute resolution to the test!

Excellent reply and quite correct!

[chevykanteve]

How ironic that this military Junta, when playing governing, fails in this most basic of tasks and has let the situation in the South deteriorate...

Nice sound-bite ......

The question is .... what do you with your vast knowledge of the topic and even greater experience, suggest they do?

Sorry son, not my job. I did not stage a Coup d'etat, deploy tanks, soldiers and munitions in the capital city, in order to seize power. The Junta did that and now must exercise their power in an appropriate way. Sadly they are not doing this and are more interested in playing out games of counter-coups than solving problems.

At least I have enough knowledge and experience to not stage a coup here to put any theories of dispute resolution to the test!

Another nice sound-bite and again ... you are making it about the coup .. and not about the south ... a common trick used in debate ... but ultimatly a loser because it does not address the issue.

From a military standpoint these the CNS is comprised of 2 of the people that would have been responsible for the issues in the South already. The situation in the south was heading downhill as fast under Thaksin as it is now .... a slow progression into a regional civil war instead of an insurgency.

So instead of talking about the coup .... tell us about the south!

Can you please rewrite that sentence in understandable English? I'm not attacking; you may be making an interesting and even valid point but... what exactly do you mean? Also, out of curiosity, are you pro-coup? I ask because you appear to be very defensive regarding it.

[jdinasia]

The Army is more than the Junta like you said the thread is not entitled "Can't the government ...."

I don't know if you missed it, but in October there was a military Coup d'etat in Thailand. The Coup-makers were from the Army, Navy and Air Force and they formed the CNS. To date I am unaware of any Army (or Navy/Air Force) unit that has opposed the Coup and have seen no reports of inter-Army battles.

With this in mind, I think it is safe to describe the Junta as being the Army and vice-versa...

I am really unsure to why you are arguing with me over something so straightforward!

/edit spelling

again a specious argument .......

The CNS is made up of a small contingent of the military (is it 3 or 5 people?) Your argument would be like saying the insugency in the south is made up of muslims ... so all the Muslim people are to blame Which entirely disregards that while the insurgents are Mulsim, the vast majority of the Musims in the south are not part of this ... and that there are Nulsim people all over Thailand.

to: Ooooo

the sentence you question is pointing out that as far as dealing with the insurgency .... not much has changed. Sondi and the rest were in charge of the same military before the coup and after ... No units (as far as I know) have been pulled out of the south ... and more have been added since last year .. including putting one of the top guys that dealt with the communist insurgency in the past down there to start working on the problem.

Again and again people are crying ... and other than GaryA's silly suggestion of ~give it to them and wall them in~ not much has been even suggested as a way to deal with this. There is little evidence to date that this insurgency is widely supported in the south, but a major crackdown would certainly be a good recruiting platform for the insurgents! They have little regard for the religion of those they kill, which is a fear tactic used to keep people from informing on them.

This is going to lead to a prolonged situation in the south with only 3 ways of dealing with it ....

1) crackdown ... which in all likelyhood will lead to escalating jungle warfare ...

2)appeasement/negotioation ... recognizing that a large majority of the people in the south are a different ethnic group that as recently as 1945 were made promises by groups outside of Thailand. Giving them more access to development and recognition of their language while still requiring loyalty to King and country might work.

3) a protracted carrot and stick approach ... more money to funding schools hospitals and infrastructure ... respecting religious differences .. while carrying on counter insurgency efforts. Think of it as policing and propoganda.

The only thing I see as being effective is approach number 2 .... The question is will people's egos let this happen? (What I think will happen is bouncing between scenario1 and scenario3 .... until the head of state has to step in with a plan.)

[bkkandrew]

The Army is more than the Junta like you said the thread is not entitled "Can't the government ...."

I don't know if you missed it, but in October there was a military Coup d'etat in Thailand. The Coup-makers were from the Army, Navy and Air Force and they formed the CNS. To date I am unaware of any Army (or Navy/Air Force) unit that has opposed the Coup and have seen no reports of inter-Army battles.

With this in mind, I think it is safe to describe the Junta as being the Army and vice-versa...

I am really unsure to why you are arguing with me over something so straightforward!

/edit spelling

again a specious argument .......

The CNS is made up of a small contingent of the military (is it 3 or 5 people?) Your argument would be like saying the insugency in the south is made up of muslims ... so all the Muslim people are to blame Which entirely disregards that while the insurgents are Mulsim, the vast majority of the Musims in the south are not part of this ... and that there are Nulsim people all over Thailand.

to: Ooooo

the sentence you question is pointing out that as far as dealing with the insurgency .... not much has changed. Sondi and the rest were in charge of the same military before the coup and after ... No units (as far as I know) have been pulled out of the south ... and more have been added since last year .. including putting one of the top guys that dealt with the communist insurgency in the past down there to start working on the problem.

Again and again people are crying ... and other than GaryA's silly suggestion of ~give it to them and wall them in~ not much has been even suggested as a way to deal with this. There is little evidence to date that this insurgency is widely supported in the south, but a major crackdown would certainly be a good recruiting platform for the insurgents! They have little regard for the religion of those they kill, which is a fear tactic used to keep people from informing on them.

This is going to lead to a prolonged situation in the south with only 3 ways of dealing with it ....

1) crackdown ... which in all likelyhood will lead to escalating jungle warfare ...

2)appeasement/negotioation ... recognizing that a large majority of the people in the south are a different ethnic group that as recently as 1945 were made promises by groups outside of Thailand. Giving them more access to development and recognition of their language while still requiring loyalty to King and country might work.

3) a protracted carrot and stick approach ... more money to funding schools hospitals and infrastructure ... respecting religious differences .. while carrying on counter insurgency efforts. Think of it as policing and propoganda.

The only thing I see as being effective is approach number 2 .... The question is will people's egos let this happen? (What I think will happen is bouncing between scenario1 and scenario3 .... until the head of state has to step in with a plan.)

And all of the above stratagies will not be considered by the powers that be (CNS), as they are too busy plotting coups, counter-coups, internal-coups, supporting coups and presumably coups-a-la-carte in Bangkok!

Thus the problem gets worse...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Don't expect a lot of military deployments to the south. There aren't enough golf courses down there.

Yer a bloody cynic Troy

[Gary A]

Never fear, today the Thai defense minister said that the insurgents are on their last legs.

[ewelve]

Again and again people are crying ... and other than GaryA's silly suggestion of ~give it to them and wall them in~ not much has been even suggested as a way to deal with this.

JD i have looked at this statement from our Gary and i cant fathom out why its "silly" in your eyes, i mean correct me if im wrong (and do it nicely, i am entitled to an opinion) but did not someone only recently on this forum point out that there are over 50 wars/skirmishes that involve Muslims on this planet now because they want their own state or the imposition of their idea of law with total disregard for what other religions that co-exist in those locations might like or want?. i mean its not like they give a ###### about what others may want is it, or have i got it wrong?, it their way or the highway to another country for the infidel, so what really is "silly" about Gary's idea?, give it to them and "wall it up" and any like minded individuals will have a nice place to go and live and leave the rest of us with the freedom we have come to cherish.

Another point JD, i am asking merely out of curiosity, in your library of vast knowledge, is there one country, place or location where the Muslim actually agrees with and practices the idea of integration?. This is a genuime honest enquiry.

Ewelve.

[PeaceBlondie]

A separate opinion, perhaps, from Gary's and others, humbly offerred:

Make their language legal within the government;

Give them far more autonomy than the other provinces;

Give them security against the rebels in their midst (the gorillas in their mist).

[jdinasia]

Again and again people are crying ... and other than GaryA's silly suggestion of ~give it to them and wall them in~ not much has been even suggested as a way to deal with this.

JD i have looked at this statement from our Gary and i cant fathom out why its "silly" in your eyes, i mean correct me if im wrong (and do it nicely, i am entitled to an opinion) but did not someone only recently on this forum point out that there are over 50 wars/skirmishes that involve Muslims on this planet now because they want their own state or the imposition of their idea of law with total disregard for what other religions that co-exist in those locations might like or want?. i mean its not like they give a ###### about what others may want is it, or have i got it wrong?, it their way or the highway to another country for the infidel, so what really is "silly" about Gary's idea?, give it to them and "wall it up" and any like minded individuals will have a nice place to go and live and leave the rest of us with the freedom we have come to cherish.

Another point JD, i am asking merely out of curiosity, in your library of vast knowledge, is there one country, place or location where the Muslim actually agrees with and practices the idea of integration?. This is a genuime honest enquiry.

Ewelve.

ok ... pretending you are NOT just on an anti-muslim troll (belied by the presuppositions in your questions)

You totally ignore the fact that there are non-muslim populations in Pattani Yala and Narathiwat. You ignore the investment etc of the Thai people and government in the area. You ignore that these few insurgents are not only killing Buddhists etc .. they are also killing their own

and to your 'another point' --- sure Denver, Dallas, St Paul etc etc etc .... but closer to home Malaysia etc.

Tah

[pampal]

Again and again people are crying ... and other than GaryA's silly suggestion of ~give it to them and wall them in~ not much has been even suggested as a way to deal with this.

JD i have looked at this statement from our Gary and i cant fathom out why its "silly" in your eyes, i mean correct me if im wrong (and do it nicely, i am entitled to an opinion) but did not someone only recently on this forum point out that there are over 50 wars/skirmishes that involve Muslims on this planet now because they want their own state or the imposition of their idea of law with total disregard for what other religions that co-exist in those locations might like or want?. i mean its not like they give a ###### about what others may want is it, or have i got it wrong?, it their way or the highway to another country for the infidel, so what really is "silly" about Gary's idea?, give it to them and "wall it up" and any like minded individuals will have a nice place to go and live and leave the rest of us with the freedom we have come to cherish.

Another point JD, i am asking merely out of curiosity, in your library of vast knowledge, is there one country, place or location where the Muslim actually agrees with and practices the idea of integration?. This is a genuime honest enquiry.

Ewelve.

Can you tell us where these 50 wars/skirmishes are?

Or are you exaggerating?

[bkkandrew]

Go on! give him a good kicking! It is Friday night!

[Mid]

enough ??

[PeaceBlondie]

Time to cool down the rhetoric before punishments get handed out, or the thread gets closed. You stand to lose whatever you say if you stay in an argument with insults being hurled. Several posts deleted.

[rafval]

why not give them a referendum? as an aside I remember sonthi did boast about how he could do a much better job in the south about two weeks before the coup, from memory the death rate is now three times what it was under taksin, I guess his fortune teller could have made a mistake on that one tho

Don't agree with giving the three southern provinces to the insurgent. What will happen next? Will there be other provinces that want their own independence based on history and start to slaughter people just to achieve it ?

[jdinasia]

why not give them a referendum? as an aside I remember sonthi did boast about how he could do a much better job in the south about two weeks before the coup, from memory the death rate is now three times what it was under taksin, I guess his fortune teller could have made a mistake on that one tho

Don't agree with giving the three southern provinces to the insurgent. What will happen next? Will there be other provinces that want their own independence based on history and start to slaughter people just to achieve it ?

It is a base precept for most nations that you do not expatriate a citizen that does not ask for it (or warrant it). So, since there are Thai people in those provinces ... no referrendum.

I think that if you look at the numbers of deaths and attacks in the south .. you will see a spike when Thaksin cracked down ... and then a gradual intensification.

This is likely to get worse before it gets better unless non-military means are done first

[rafval]

they seem to be able to do it in places like Canada

why not give them a referendum? as an aside I remember sonthi did boast about how he could do a much better job in the south about two weeks before the coup, from memory the death rate is now three times what it was under taksin, I guess his fortune teller could have made a mistake on that one tho

Don't agree with giving the three southern provinces to the insurgent. What will happen next? Will there be other provinces that want their own independence based on history and start to slaughter people just to achieve it ?

It is a base precept for most nations that you do not expatriate a citizen that does not ask for it (or warrant it). So, since there are Thai people in those provinces ... no referrendum.

I think that if you look at the numbers of deaths and attacks in the south .. you will see a spike when Thaksin cracked down ... and then a gradual intensification.

This is likely to get worse before it gets better unless non-military means are done first

[jdinasia]

Do what? oh you mean the French Canadiand secede? ... do they? No matter what it would have been the same head of State

But you'd have to ask my former Northern Neighbors what went on up there ..... even having property in Nova Scotia I never paid attention to anything

[PeaceBlondie]

The Supreme Court of Canada, as I recall, decreed that Quebec can't leave Canada even if it wants to. Not a good example. Many say a better metaphor/example is Northern Island, but there is no perfect analogy.

Nor is there anything resembling the status of the three southern provinces, which were once a Malayan sultanate, in the remaining provinces of Thailand. In other words, giving some autonomy (self rule) to these three provinces doesn't mean you're giving them independence. Even if they had a successful rebellion, as the Irish did from the United Kingdom, that doesn't mean every other 'breakaway republic' would get the same treatment, with or without violent rebellion.

[jdinasia]

The Supreme Court of Canada, as I recall, decreed that Quebec can't leave Canada even if it wants to. Not a good example. Many say a better metaphor/example is Northern Island, but there is no perfect analogy.

Nor is there anything resembling the status of the three southern provinces, which were once a Malayan sultanate, in the remaining provinces of Thailand. In other words, giving some autonomy (self rule) to these three provinces doesn't mean you're giving them independence. Even if they had a successful rebellion, as the Irish did from the United Kingdom, that doesn't mean every other 'breakaway republic' would get the same treatment, with or without violent rebellion.

Thanks .. that is what I thought ... but I DO try and keep to what I know when it comes to things that are absolutes

[opothai]

you can not be serious about giving these people [murderers ] any part of southern thailand.

it has been shown time and again that these extremists will fight each other for ultimate power and the more backward they are the more radical they become.

if you give in once to these terrorists do you not think it will create more and more problems in the future,

get real and see that they are trying to kidnapp part of thailand through threats and cold blooded murder.

i'm sorry to say that the powers that be need to infiltrate these extremists and slowly but surely destroy tthem from within.

talks can not be held because there is no one to talk to, even if they could talk one faction would want more than the other factions.