Anyone's Mrs here have a restaurant / business in Isaan? How is she doing?

[Kenny202]

Mine was going really well even a year / year and a half into covid but last 6 months real decline. Down perhaps 50%. Since this Ukraine thing just awful. She has a smallish Western style food restaurant in the city that was previously doing well. There are other restaurants around her and they also seem to be in the same boat. So many businesses here have shut up shop.  Anyone else seeing the same thing?

[Lucky Bones]

Perhaps Indian food could be a goer?

[Lucky Bones]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

Don't get me started, the one we saw in Udon yesterday was concerning enough. A curry shop would pull even more in as well as the flies no doubt.  No Pattaya is the place for them  and where the Ladyboys require them to be. ????

Can't disagree with that.

So many hunting in packs last week.

Pattaya central currently good place to avoid.

[BritManToo]

49 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Anyone else seeing the same thing?

With all the price rises everyone is broke ...... first thing to cut down on is eating out.

I used to take the family out once a week for a meal by the lake, now it's once a month.

Edited June 24, 2022 by BritManToo

[youreavinalaff]

Sounds like she needs to diversify. 

 

Get a Facebook page as advertising, offer delivery, either employ a motorcycle driver or join one of the companies that deliver. 

 

Offer some Thai food too. This would encourage those with families to order together. Expats have western and Thais have Thai.

Edited June 25, 2022 by youreavinalaff

[kimamey]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Sounds like she needs to diversify. 

 

Get a Facebook page as advertising, offer delivery, either employ a motorcycle driver or join one of the companies that deliver. 

 

Offer some Thai food too. This would encourage those with families to order together. Expats have western and Thais have Thai.

Sounds like it's worth a try if possible. 

I've been in a few places that seem very quiet but there are a lot of deliveries going out. 

Good luck to the OP

[Mad God]

Wife had one years ago now, she did ok, was Pizza which is very popular, she got taught by an old Italian who was very good, she wasn't bad. Italians liked her food though could never get a gas oven hot enough without spending a lot. 

 

We would have made a traditional oven but then work took me away from Thailand.

 

Someone else mentioned but I'll add here too, her successful part which others mentioned was doing delivery, and marketing delivery to the local government offices during the day. We lived in a large town with a big government population

 

Schools also she'd deliver too but that had to be carefully managed, a few schools banned deliveries so she did a deal with the local catholic school to do delivery just 2 days a week an the school collected the orders, phoned them through, and she did a bulk delivery with a 15% donation to the school. As it was a bulk order that came at 11 am it gave her time to use oven etc when not competing for her own customers hence the bulk discount. Plus 25 pizzas in a single order is bloody good.

 

She tried to work on the 30% rule, 30% for rent and utilities, 30% for cost of goods, 30% labour. 10% profit

 

Labour you must include your own wages, if you don't you end up hating the business.   

In reality it ended up with rent and labor being a bit less than 30% each and her profit being about 25%.

 

People used to say impossible to make pizzas for the price she did, arounf the 100baht mark 7 years ago, but it was easy to source good produce.

 

As mentioned by others, she also had some thai food and also burgers, lasagna, and some spaghetti

 

"Restaurants are owned by the landlord" a good mate of mine says, he had two famous restaurants and now owns the buildings not the restaurants. 

 

My mate noted as he rented places, as he got more successful, so did the rent, was always chasing his tail. Ended up buying the building and selling the restaurant and making more with less stress.

 

Wife got lucky, the landlord had a pub and the space beside it they struggled to get going as a restaurant. So with a good cheap restaurant with pub style food the landlords main business improved.

 

Ironically her sister, niece and two of our kids are all into hospitality with focus on restaurants. 

 

Our son is still in school and has a part time burger stand using his mums recipes, taught to her by a drunk Englishman who wanted a "real" burger a decade ago.

 

The recipe is so popular here in Oz he makes about $800 profit working on a 50% gross profit margin. 

 

Not bad for a 16 year old!

 

Recipe is super simple, and that's the key to his success, he even advertises, "No Aioli" Aioli being flavoured mayonnaise, YUCK!

 

His sister works in a major city hotel, hasn't finished her studies but the head chef only allows her to manage ordering and special food preparations over more seasoned staff in the hotel.

 

It's a tough business. For that $800 from 4 hours of trading there is 8 hours of prep and 4 hours of clean up that goes with it. Still great money but if you have a day to day place it's a love of the job and people.

 

It's tough times, we thought about having a part of the place to serve drinks to the expat community but realized quickly they are fickle and don't actually spend that much. She then found the right local cliental and they became much better customers. 

 

I know not recent experience but maybe chasing some catering as we did and my son does now might work and fill in the gaps, 

 

All the best!

[Kenny202]

5 hours ago, Mad God said:

Wife had one years ago now, she did ok, was Pizza which is very popular, she got taught by an old Italian who was very good, she wasn't bad. Italians liked her food though could never get a gas oven hot enough without spending a lot. 

 

We would have made a traditional oven but then work took me away from Thailand.

 

Someone else mentioned but I'll add here too, her successful part which others mentioned was doing delivery, and marketing delivery to the local government offices during the day. We lived in a large town with a big government population

 

Schools also she'd deliver too but that had to be carefully managed, a few schools banned deliveries so she did a deal with the local catholic school to do delivery just 2 days a week an the school collected the orders, phoned them through, and she did a bulk delivery with a 15% donation to the school. As it was a bulk order that came at 11 am it gave her time to use oven etc when not competing for her own customers hence the bulk discount. Plus 25 pizzas in a single order is bloody good.

 

She tried to work on the 30% rule, 30% for rent and utilities, 30% for cost of goods, 30% labour. 10% profit

 

Labour you must include your own wages, if you don't you end up hating the business.   

In reality it ended up with rent and labor being a bit less than 30% each and her profit being about 25%.

 

People used to say impossible to make pizzas for the price she did, arounf the 100baht mark 7 years ago, but it was easy to source good produce.

 

As mentioned by others, she also had some thai food and also burgers, lasagna, and some spaghetti

 

"Restaurants are owned by the landlord" a good mate of mine says, he had two famous restaurants and now owns the buildings not the restaurants. 

 

My mate noted as he rented places, as he got more successful, so did the rent, was always chasing his tail. Ended up buying the building and selling the restaurant and making more with less stress.

 

Wife got lucky, the landlord had a pub and the space beside it they struggled to get going as a restaurant. So with a good cheap restaurant with pub style food the landlords main business improved.

 

Ironically her sister, niece and two of our kids are all into hospitality with focus on restaurants. 

 

Our son is still in school and has a part time burger stand using his mums recipes, taught to her by a drunk Englishman who wanted a "real" burger a decade ago.

 

The recipe is so popular here in Oz he makes about $800 profit working on a 50% gross profit margin. 

 

Not bad for a 16 year old!

 

Recipe is super simple, and that's the key to his success, he even advertises, "No Aioli" Aioli being flavoured mayonnaise, YUCK!

 

His sister works in a major city hotel, hasn't finished her studies but the head chef only allows her to manage ordering and special food preparations over more seasoned staff in the hotel.

 

It's a tough business. For that $800 from 4 hours of trading there is 8 hours of prep and 4 hours of clean up that goes with it. Still great money but if you have a day to day place it's a love of the job and people.

 

It's tough times, we thought about having a part of the place to serve drinks to the expat community but realized quickly they are fickle and don't actually spend that much. She then found the right local cliental and they became much better customers. 

 

I know not recent experience but maybe chasing some catering as we did and my son does now might work and fill in the gaps, 

 

All the best!

Not sure about the 10% profit rule. I think a lot of Thais make that mistake. Depends on how much you want to earn I guess. For the amount of effort and investment in a business I would assume a person with even a small business owner here would want to make at least circa 30k THB (profit) a month. Mean she would be needing to turn over 300k a month....and that's a lot of pizzas! Thais don't want expensive toppings, salami, Mozzarella etc. Cover it with a bit of cheese, tons of mayonnaise and 3 baht hot dogs cut up. Erk but they seem to like them.

 

You are spot on re being a Landlord as opposed to a business owner. Have noticed that last few years. Most new businesses here, particularly small food sellers fail within the first three months. Either people who are expecting to make a living income / wage from the business from day one with no capital in reserve. Or they spend the sales money on living day to day and don't replace stock or do any basic accounting.  See also people working for the government with the money to buy one of these ridiculous franchises for 100-200k and get a few carboard cut outs, bit of marketing stuff and 10k of start up product and little else. Again usually lose interest and shut up shop after a few months. 

 

What I do see though is a never ending queue of prospective business owners wanting to open restaurants. As soon as one fails another starts up. I reckon a great investment (far better than an actual business) would be a little row of 4 - 6 shop houses to rent out. Steady income as well as an appreciating asset. I must say though I wouldn't want the chore of trying to extract the money from the tenants every month :-( 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Kenny202

[Mad God]

There was a chap I knew many moons ago who's wife wanted to get into small business. 

 

THey had a block of land near a small uni

 

He was very smart, he built a block of units, separate floors for Male or Female, parents love that, got swipe cards, just so parents felt safe.

 

Downstairs wife had a minimart, someone else rented out a restaurant space he built, 

 

Live music on Friday and Saturday

 

Was so successful, building a number of small businesses that fed each other, that they bought more land and built a bigger better second block of apartments for students.

 

Nice guy, smart as, 

 

 The 10% for restaurants is a global number by the way, varies significantly but is the one that appears in most literature. 

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Mad God said:

The 10% for restaurants is a global number by the way, varies significantly but is the one that appears in most literature. 

I don't think so mate. I was actually a business coach / auditor / operations manager in my last life. Most takeaway / food / small businesses profit in Australia work on at least 30-50% of turnover. Starting out I would advise to shoot for 50% to begin with. That gives you time to play around with your price points and get everything right. If you shoot for the stars you may or may not miss. If you shoot for the mud you will hit it. Bigger business / turnover / corporation a different story. Wholesaling company I worked for huge turnover in the millions per month more like 10-15% nett. I think going off your own example, (even though you say your wife was making much more profit)...10% profit of a 100 baht pizza is 10 baht. Not sure how much she would want to make but at 10% net profit she would need to make / sell 1000 pizzas a month. That doesn't sound feasible to me. That would be a lot of hard work requiring staff, gas, electricity etc to make 10k a month profit. May be reading your figures wrong. 

[rankric]

10% profit after all costs of business, including salary is a respectable return.

[puchooay]

47 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't think so mate. I was actually a business coach / auditor / operations manager in my last life. Most takeaway / food / small businesses profit in Australia work on at least 30-50% of turnover. Starting out I would advise to shoot for 50% to begin with. That gives you time to play around with your price points and get everything right. If you shoot for the stars you may or may not miss. If you shoot for the mud you will hit it. Bigger business / turnover / corporation a different story. Wholesaling company I worked for huge turnover in the millions per month more like 10-15% nett. I think going off your own example, (even though you say your wife was making much more profit)...10% profit of a 100 baht pizza is 10 baht. Not sure how much she would want to make but at 10% net profit she would need to make / sell 1000 pizzas a month. That doesn't sound feasible to me. That would be a lot of hard work requiring staff, gas, electricity etc to make 10k a month profit. May be reading your figures wrong. 

That's 10% of net profits, already having taken salaries in to account. The boss should always pay themselves a salary. 

 

Therefore the 10% profit is for the business to expand. In Thailand more likely the boss will give themselves a bonus.????????

[Kenny202]

Just now, puchooay said:

That's 10% of net profits, already having taken salaries in to account. The boss should always pay themselves a salary. 

 

Therefore the 10% profit is for the business to expand. In Thailand more likely the boss will give themselves a bonus.????????

CCTV pointed at the counter straightens them up lol

[puchooay]

3 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

CCTV pointed at the counter straightens them up lol

I didn't mean like that. 

[Kenny202]

16 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Pattaya is not a city. It may well be called such, likely among expats, but it isn't. 

 

The definition and administrative set up of a city in Thailand shows clearly there is only one.

Someone should tell the person who commissioned the huge "Pattaya city" sign you can see from almost anywhere in the ermmm town

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

The wife's humble roadside meatball and drinks shop. Was a 500 baht weekday, 1000 baht Sat/Sun take about a year ago. Has gone down to about 300 weekday, 500 baht Sat/Sun now.

 

Costs have gone up on everything. The natural gas for cooking, the cooking oil, the food. Used to include vegetables like lettuce and cucumbers, now can't as they double the meal price. Busy road, though fewer are stopping. They've got less money to spend, and more competition to stop at further up and down the road, as more have been opening up shops, sometimes right in front of their house, to make ends meet. But we press on. Even if just breaking even, it gives the wife something to do, and she has her regular customers and friends in the market.

 

It is a far cry from the 150k she made in 3 months in her somtam shop, in the BKK market near my condo. But now being with her family, the kindly, humble Issan country folk, and the wonderful people at my school, is more than worth it, given it's far from the utter scum of the Earth I dealt with at that BKK private school.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by CrunchWrapSupreme

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:39 PM, Kenny202 said:

So many businesses here have shut up shop.  Anyone else seeing the same thing?

My step daughter has a small Thai food restaurant in Khon Kaen, doing a roaring trade by all accounts.

[Kenny202]

7 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

The wife's humble roadside meatball and drinks shop. Was a 500 baht weekday, 1000 baht Sat/Sun take about a year ago. Has gone down to about 300 weekday, 500 baht Sat/Sun now.

 

Costs have gone up on everything. The natural gas for cooking, the cooking oil, the food. Used to include vegetables like lettuce and cucumbers, now can't as they double the meal price. Busy road, though fewer are stopping. They've got less money to spend, and more competition to stop at further up and down the road, as more have been opening up shops, sometimes right in front of their house, to make ends meet. But we press on. Even if just breaking even, it gives the wife something to do, and she has her regular customers and friends in the market.

 

It is a far cry from the 150k she made in 3 months in her somtam shop, in the BKK market near my condo. But now being with her family, the kindly, humble Issan country folk, and the wonderful people at my school, is more than worth it, given it's far from the utter scum of the Earth I dealt with at that BKK private school.

 

We were looking at stuff today and as you say the big price hikes on oil, pork, chicken....veges still pretty much the same but I think even the small stuff everything gone up around 20%. You don't notice it too much as only usually pennies but when it is pennies on everything it makes a huge difference. Makro / Tesco ? CP are masters of this. Like they are continually testing their price points. Look at eggs! I can remember when they were 80 baht at Tesco for a tray of 30 eggs. Now 130 and increasing every month. How do they justify the increase in eggs? Covid? Ukraine? 

 

I see though most of the Thais rather than put their prices up seem to be giving much smaller portions. Seems to be the magic number for soup or a basic Thai dish between 35-45 baht. They hate putting prices up

[puchooay]

15 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Someone should tell the person who commissioned the huge "Pattaya city" sign you can see from almost anywhere in the ermmm town

Indeed they should.

[Elkski]

44 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

The wife's humble roadside meatball and drinks shop. Was a 500 baht weekday, 1000 baht Sat/Sun take about a year ago. Has gone down to about 300 weekday, 500 baht Sat/Sun now.

 

Costs have gone up on everything. The natural gas for cooking, the cooking oil, the food. Used to include vegetables like lettuce and cucumbers, now can't as they double the meal price. Busy road, though fewer are stopping. They've got less money to spend, and more competition to stop at further up and down the road, as more have been opening up shops, sometimes right in front of their house, to make ends meet. But we press on. Even if just breaking even, it gives the wife something to do, and she has her regular customers and friends in the market.

 

It is a far cry from the 150k she made in 3 months in her somtam shop, in the BKK market near my condo. But now being with her family, the kindly, humble Issan country folk, and the wonderful people at my school, is more than worth it, given it's far from the utter scum of the Earth I dealt with at that BKK private school.

 

Happy wife happy life.  Sounds like a good gig you 2 have.  

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

The wife's humble roadside meatball and drinks shop. Was a 500 baht weekday, 1000 baht Sat/Sun take about a year ago. Has gone down to about 300 weekday, 500 baht Sat/Sun now.

 

Costs have gone up on everything. The natural gas for cooking, the cooking oil, the food. Used to include vegetables like lettuce and cucumbers, now can't as they double the meal price. Busy road, though fewer are stopping. They've got less money to spend, and more competition to stop at further up and down the road, as more have been opening up shops, sometimes right in front of their house, to make ends meet. But we press on. Even if just breaking even, it gives the wife something to do, and she has her regular customers and friends in the market.

 

It is a far cry from the 150k she made in 3 months in her somtam shop, in the BKK market near my condo. But now being with her family, the kindly, humble Issan country folk, and the wonderful people at my school, is more than worth it, given it's far from the utter scum of the Earth I dealt with at that BKK private school.

 

You use the words "take" and "made". I'm guessing all of your quote figures are the monies received for products and not profits.

 

What do you think the difference in %%% of profit is now compared to 3 years ago, assuming your wife has kept her prices constant.

[Kenny202]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

You use the words "take" and "made". I'm guessing all of your quote figures are the monies received for products and not profits.

 

What do you think the difference in %%% of profit is now compared to 3 years ago, assuming your wife has kept her prices constant.

I can tell you from mine, and it is very clear and consistent. 3 years ago she was making profit of around 50% of sales. Sounds a lot but small turnover. Now its more like 25% of sales and sales decreased considerably as well. From others we talk to about the same. She has kept her sell prices consistent throughout. We were only talking today re the need to put her prices up.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Kenny202

[Dominus]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:27 PM, BritManToo said:

With all the price rises everyone is broke ...... first thing to cut down on is eating out.

I used to take the family out once a week for a meal by the lake, now it's once a month.

Price rises?

[youreavinalaff]

18 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Someone should tell the person who commissioned the huge "Pattaya city" sign you can see from almost anywhere in the ermmm town

You'll find signs with the word "City" on them are there for the benefit of expat and tourism. The Thai part will be written as "ซิตี้", which is not a word in Thai but just City written in a way Thais can read it.

Edited September 20, 2022 by youreavinalaff

[Andycoops]

In Isaan you need to cater to the locals, no tourists, many expats have left a d are thin on the ground compared to pre covid.

My wife started a market garden growing organic fruit and vegetables and it's doing very well.

[djayz]

Mrs Djayz doesn't even bother opening her coffee shop any more and her family doesn't open their Thai restaurant either. Both dead businesses, easily half a year now. Empty bungalows. Nothing. 

Now she just focuses on selling plants (which is doing pretty good). People just don't eat / drink out much any more. 

[metisdead]

Off topic baiting posts and replies have been removed.  This topic is not about profit margins in New Zealand or Australia.

[puchooay]

On 9/21/2022 at 2:52 AM, Andycoops said:

In Isaan you need to cater to the locals, no tourists, many expats have left a d are thin on the ground compared to pre covid.

My wife started a market garden growing organic fruit and vegetables and it's doing very well.

My wife ran a business catering totally to expats in Buriram for 11 years. Good profits. Sold the business in 2019 due to relocating.

 

New owners doing very well. Pandemic or not, people still need to eat.

[Will B Good]

We have a few eateries (I wouldn't call them restaurants) near us.

 

I am convinced they are just a front for drug dealing and laundering money........hardly ever see a customer in any of them.

 

The owners seem clueless (maybe drugged up?).....the premises are dark and dingy.....they cook on wood/charcoal, which fills the whole place with smoke......the bins are set out next to the seating.....they have their own kids running around the place like a play park.....clueless.

[vangrop]

Mine had a very nice thai restaurant in a little country community called Na Kae (around 3000people) in Isaan between Nakhon Phanom and Sakon Nakhon. Covid, the war and the deteriorate financial conditions of the locals killed it. My advice is don't, the locals in rural areas cannot afford it. Unless you move to the big cities but with other challenges and don't forget the regio still remains very poor.