Cost Of Living In Bangkok

[t.s]

Sorry qualtrough, I need to disagree with you on this.

I am more of a purist when it comes to my Western food. Buying a pizza from say Ronnies, would be better than me making a pizza with inferior ingredients,

buying a pizza from ronnies means buying a pizza with inferior ingredients. you cannot be that much of a purist.

on the other hand, I have found cooking western food is very expensive. Buying prime ingredients can be very costly, so i agree with you there.

I can go to Villa spend 5k and come home with nothing to eat.

[sgunn65]

Thanks for your replies.

On the going out part - I work at nights including Friday nights so can't go out even if I wanted to except for Sat + Sun night.

Food - I can handle vendor food on a regular basis for a while but after a few days/weeks I'll be looking forward to just cooking simple meals at home, I also find the activity quite therapeutic :-) and yes the GF will do some cooking occasionally.

Internet - this is for a good ADSL package + some backup like GPRS. I may start with a simple package and see if it's workable but wanted to budget in a case where I'll need more than that.

Cable - good point.

Visa - this is an avg, which includes having to fly out every couple of months or so (in the region) if I can do 60+30 days on tourist alternated with visa exempt. Alternatively ED visa is another option I'm looking at and then I'll have the course fees (which arguably will be even more than 4K a month).

Thanks again.

What do you guys think about this:

Food (mostly Thai + home cooking) 9,000

Transportation 2,150

Internet 2,500

Rent 18,000

Medical Insurance 3,500

Electricity 3,500

Entertainment (beers/movies, no redlight stuff) 10,750

Mobile phone 300

Visa related 4,000

Spending budget (books, computer accessory etc.) 4,000

Clothing 500

Web Hosting 500

Vacation / getaways in TH (15K quarterly) 5,000

Maid (part time cleaner based on 500 Bht per day) 2,150

Contingency ( = 10% of total above) 6,585

Total THB 72,435

USD $2,130

Actually, this is not a bad budget. The only things I would say is that:

1) you are light on going out - I would double it at least, as it sounds like you have the resources, which means your gonna spend.

2) unless your GF is doing the homecooking and knows how to shop at local markets, it is usually cheaper to vendorfood. Cooking Western food at home in Thailand is a sure way to spend lots of money.

3) I spend 600 on internet, I used to spend 2,500 but after 4 months realized I was only getting the speed of the 600 baht package anyway.

4) Add 1,500-2,500 for cable.

5) Your visa related it too much per month, unless you are factoring in flying to your home country.

If you want to save on the visa part of the budget and learn Thai have a look at the Walen School advert on TV. It offers a year course (twice a week lessons) in Thai with a year visa for 29,500. So thats less than 2,500 pcm and you get free lessons thrown in. It has certainly given me food for thought as I was getting ready to apply for a settlement visa. This looks simpler. But then I have not seen the small print yet!

[glaitong]

To live right, I suggest Baht 80,000-120,000/mth. Covers all the costs.

[walterego]

i dont get it, there is something i am obviously missing i humbly appologise for my obvious lack of intuition in this matter.

the average Thai (pls correct me on these figures) lives anywhere with 8,000 - 16,000 baht a month depending on where you source your statistics. I have Filipina friends that live in BKK earning 15,000thb a month they live comfortably and are able to send a smal remainder home to their familys every month, yes they dont have a lot of money but they get by, they are not hungry and have all the normal household stuff and comforts. I know of a handfull of aussie female  teachers that have lived in BKK and returned home after 1-4 yrs and were only earning 30,000 baht a month they claimed to live comfortably (in fact they claim

d

to live rather well) and they have returned their to commence teaching again. ye

 i read here about necessary

monthly income that far exceeds the income of a normal well to do Thai national. i apreciate al

o the 2 tier pricing in some cases for Farangs but even with that in mind.

It just doesnt all add up, i mean 120,000 baht a month that is over 4000 aussie, after tax that would mean u 

ere grossing 

over $8100 AUD a month or $97777/- AUD a year. well above the average australian yearly wage. ( i am not poorly em

loyed in australia earning more than 60k AUD after tax here that is about $3500 a month in your hand, wich is about 94,000 baht a month, and i can ass

re you that on 94,000 THB a month in australia you can live very well and own a 

ouse go out and drink like a fish etc etc

the figures given as examples just dont add upin many respects.

i am expecting to earn as a teacher when i finaly get to LOS 30,000bht a month and i hope i dont have to dip into savings to much when i want to have a good time. from what i hear here, it sounds as if for the (massively overpaid position compared to the Thai national) all u will get is a doss house and a plate of pad thai a day?

really?

Here in australia the social security pays 27000baht a month and u can get a doss house here and pad thai every day on that money.

it just doesnt add up, that i need to earn what i earn in australia to have an enjoyable and comfortable life in a far lower economic structure.

can someone please clarify why this is the case?

i am sorry, i havent been there yet, i do rely heavily on you guys honest apraisals. please forgive my naiviety and inform me as to why i cant live well if i am earning double the Thai national. (i do not belive language barriers will hinder my haggling skills as i have many Thai friends who can help me with expensive purchases).

Also can i make savings more eficient by finding work and accomodation in rural areas?

how significant are the rental savings in say Chiang mai or some of the other areas (especialy costal)?

what are the major built up areas on the beache areas that would have enough infra structure to support teaching opportunitys (eg wiki says Chiang mai only has about 700,000 people that makes it smaller than melbourne aus)?

thanks for feedback i really need your opinions so i can budget my savings especially so i dont go overboard when i arrive.

Thanks a lot for your time.

[barrowclough]

I am in a simialr quandry. I am comign to Bangkok in three months and I will be earning 50,000 baht a month. I have a rather alrge credit card bill back in the UK to take care of which elaves me with 40,000 baht a month. I was assuming this would be enough to live reasonably, in a decent appartment with air conditioning and eat three square meals a day. I am not a big drinker, sure I will go out to abrs at a weekend, but I dont feel it necessary to get stupidly drunk. Two or three drinks is plenty for me. I was rather hoping this would be enough to to live decently, and still have some savings to make the odd trip to the beach or to vietnam/cambodia during vacation periods.

It certainly seems there is some conflicting information as to how much you need to live comfortably.

[RAZZELL]

There's "Thai comfortable" and "Farang comfortable"...

I have Thai friends who pay 10,000 a month for a room in lower suk.

3 to a room.

This room is no bigger than my bedroom at home in the UK...They cook, eat and sleep there...

If you want to live like this...well up to you...

If you want to live a Western lifestyle it will cost more...

RAZZ

[sgunn65]

Of course there will be wide ranging opinions about what is needed to live anywhere because you are asking a wide ranging variety of people from a wide ranging age group/background/nationality/class. Everyone will give you an answer that is correct but only to them.

I live in London and would say you need £2,500 nett minimum per month to live reasonably but ask a hundred londoners and they will all give you a different but correct figure.

When I move to Bangkok in October my wife tells me we can live well on 40,000 per month although I think it is nearer 60K(but we have a mortgage free home in the burbs). You can rent a nice house where I will live for 6-8,000 a month but you will need to get a cab home when you go out and take the bus to work. If you want to live in the centre you will probably have to pay more. You will have seen the wildly varied rentals mentioned. They are all correct.

Sift through and, like Frankenstein, you can build your answer.

I think the bottom line is you can live on 30K you can live more luxuriously on 60K and even better on 100K. No surprises there. The bit you need to decide is whether the money you will get will cover the lifestyle you want to lead. The price of everything is available on this and other posts so get a paper and pen and work out what you can do with the money. If it is enough then happy days! Bear in mind if you teach that there does seem to be opportunities for private lessons and so forth, however I would not bank on that to start with.

I am of the opinion (for me anyway) whats the worst that can happen? It all goes pete tong and I have to go home. At least I will have tried life in another continent and that has got to be worth a crack.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. Good Luck

[jdinasia]

I am in a simialr quandry. I am comign to Bangkok in three months and I will be earning 50,000 baht a month. I have a rather alrge credit card bill back in the UK to take care of which elaves me with 40,000 baht a month. I was assuming this would be enough to live reasonably, in a decent appartment with air conditioning and eat three square meals a day. I am not a big drinker, sure I will go out to abrs at a weekend, but I dont feel it necessary to get stupidly drunk. Two or three drinks is plenty for me. I was rather hoping this would be enough to to live decently, and still have some savings to make the odd trip to the beach or to vietnam/cambodia during vacation periods.

It certainly seems there is some conflicting information as to how much you need to live comfortably.

You can easily live on 40K .... and if you had 120K you could live on that too ...

Differences are MOSTLY in housing and entertainment

[Jersey_UK]

I am in a simialr quandry. I am comign to Bangkok in three months and I will be earning 50,000 baht a month. I have a rather alrge credit card bill back in the UK to take care of which elaves me with 40,000 baht a month. I was assuming this would be enough to live reasonably, in a decent appartment with air conditioning and eat three square meals a day. I am not a big drinker, sure I will go out to abrs at a weekend, but I dont feel it necessary to get stupidly drunk. Two or three drinks is plenty for me. I was rather hoping this would be enough to to live decently, and still have some savings to make the odd trip to the beach or to vietnam/cambodia during vacation periods.

It certainly seems there is some conflicting information as to how much you need to live comfortably.

I don't live in Bangkok. I have never "lived" and worked in Bangkok................therefore I feel perfectly qualified to answer your question But I have spent a fair bit of time their over the years.

The quick answer is of course you can live comfortably on B40k a month in Bangkok.

By this I mean eating well, having accomadation that is clean and equipped with all mod cons and does not require you to be living next door to a crack house or being afraid to venture down your soi after dark...............however you will not be in a Penthouse flat with an indoor swimming pool, or eating out on Caviar and Champage every night living the life of an international playboy.............but if you have a lifestyle back home that does not involve a constant need to spend money to keep you entertained then you will be quite ok. (note that you also will not be able to afford the Tourist style P4P nightlife adventures every night - but don't worry this sooner or later palls for most and there are cheaper and often more fun alternatives!).

Having said all that, when you first arrive you will not be able to live as cheap as you will end up doing, simply cos' you don't know what is cheap and where and what is / is not important to you. (Ie do you trade a bit of location for a larger apartment?).........indeed do you know where a "good" location is (for you) and what is actually cheap and good in Bangkok rather than just seems so in western terms............obviously you can do research on the net and you may get some help in Bangkok from folk (useful if you are working with people, especially Thais as you already have an intro to folk who are not automatically trying to sell you something), but it really comes down to you learning stuff yerself by spending time in Bangkok asking and looking around and learning (same as anywhere new).

I would budget that your first couple of months will be way more expensive than later months (I would suggest coming to Bangkok with a contingency / fun! / exploring budget. I would hesitate to sign up a long lease on somewhere until you are certain that the place fits your requirements and budget. Their will be nothing quite as annoying as spending B12k a month on an Apartment for a year when you later find out that the same could be had for B6/7k.........

Just for info, I completely fitted out an empty one roomed "apartment" (Sep Toilet and shower) from Tesco Lotus for just under B30k (£450??) everything from a Fridge and TV / DVD to knives and forks, it worked out cheaper than me staying in a Hotel for a month and was more conveniant to live when you can cater for yourself as and when needed..........and the rent was under B5k and a short Motorbike taxi to the Skytrain. (especially for someone new I would highly suggest being able to access the Skytrain, even if a 2 minute (10B) Motorbike taxi ride away..........it makes moving around BKK a no brainer).

Any good luck and have fun!

[Jimjim]

I am in a simialr quandry. I am comign to Bangkok in three months and I will be earning 50,000 baht a month. I have a rather alrge credit card bill back in the UK to take care of which elaves me with 40,000 baht a month. I was assuming this would be enough to live reasonably, in a decent appartment with air conditioning and eat three square meals a day. I am not a big drinker, sure I will go out to abrs at a weekend, but I dont feel it necessary to get stupidly drunk. Two or three drinks is plenty for me. I was rather hoping this would be enough to to live decently, and still have some savings to make the odd trip to the beach or to vietnam/cambodia during vacation periods.

It certainly seems there is some conflicting information as to how much you need to live comfortably.

You should be fine.

[Globeliner]

Regarding flying from Korea to Bangkok:

I have to admit once I was spoiled with an airline that allowed you to pause/play the movie you were watching at your seat that I was a little surprised when I flew an airline recently that didn't have this feature.

So, I was wondering if anyone had flown a Korean Air Boeing 777 to Bangkok from Korea and if they had a pause/play button on the controller when you watch movies and shows.

YAWN-IRELLEVANT-BORING

[Globeliner]

There's "Thai comfortable" and "Farang comfortable"...

I have Thai friends who pay 10,000 a month for a room in lower suk.

3 to a room.

This room is no bigger than my bedroom at home in the UK...They cook, eat and sleep there...

If you want to live like this...well up to you...

RAZZ

I take it you live in a comfortable massive mansion, no wonder all 'farangs' are considered decedent!

[coldcrush]

Some ppl on this thread are stating the odd question of "well if Thais can do it, so can I". Are you Thai, are you accustomed to eating Som Tam all day and riding motorbikes to the worlds end and back to save sip baht? My Wife would state this to me when we endulge in what she considered luxuries or over spending. I would ask the same question again, why go somewhere from a modest lifestyle to live like an under class citizen...are you not moving to Thailand to improve your life, or is it like so many to escape it with the dream of being in an Asian bubble living on rice and Mekong whisky?

I would advise anyone to consider the opportunitys Thailand offers for your future, not the escapism that leaves so many looking like bums and losers. On that note many people live on a low wage and do not suffer as they are clever and live within thier means and also have good career path, hopefully you are one of the latter.

Goodluck

[Furbie]

Sorry qualtrough, I need to disagree with you on this.

I am more of a purist when it comes to my Western food. Buying a pizza from say Ronnies, would be better than me making a pizza with inferior ingredients,

buying a pizza from ronnies means buying a pizza with inferior ingredients. you cannot be that much of a purist.

on the other hand, I have found cooking western food is very expensive. Buying prime ingredients can be very costly, so i agree with you there.

I can go to Villa spend 5k and come home with nothing to eat.

t.s.,

Sometimes I think you post just to disagree.

My point was, it is better to cook it yourself with prime ingredients. The next step down is to go to a place like Ronnies – you can add in another place if you want. We are after all discussing budgeting. The next step after that that would be cooking it yourself with sub-prime ingredients. Hence, Ronnies is better than sub-prime ingredients.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Furbie

[Furbie]

Some ppl on this thread are stating the odd question of "well if Thais can do it, so can I". Are you Thai, are you accustomed to eating Som Tam all day and riding motorbikes to the worlds end and back to save sip baht? My Wife would state this to me when we endulge in what she considered luxuries or over spending. I would ask the same question again, why go somewhere from a modest lifestyle to live like an under class citizen...are you not moving to Thailand to improve your life, or is it like so many to escape it with the dream of being in an Asian bubble living on rice and Mekong whisky?

I would advise anyone to consider the opportunitys Thailand offers for your future, not the escapism that leaves so many looking like bums and losers. On that note many people live on a low wage and do not suffer as they are clever and live within thier means and also have good career path, hopefully you are one of the latter.

Goodluck

coldcrush makes the point, but I will also ask you – can you live like a local, and more importantly, why would you want to?

How much Thai food can you eat – can you eat it every day three times a day? What happens when you have Western friends who want to go out? Will they share your ability to forgo Western food and drink? I enjoy Thai food, and probably eat it 10 times a week these days, out of 21 meals. If I lived with my GF, this would probably go up to about 15, but there would still be a lot of Western food involved.

How big are you? Can you fit into 100 baht shirts from Pratunam? Would you ever wear one? Can you live with a room mate or 3. Living 3 people to an apartment would have worked for me in my early 20s, certainly not now.

Give up UBC? No way, it may be bad, but at least I get CNN. Give up my high-speed internet, not gonna happen.

If I cut my life to the bare bone, I could probably do 40k a month; but I don't live here to sacrifice. My money goes further here than in the US. If you are here to live worse off, by all means enjoy yourself.

A comfortable Western life in BKK is at least 60k, better 80k, better still 100k. That is for a single guy. Sure, lots of people live on less than this – and lots of people live on very little in the US and other places – I would just not move to the US with the hope of living like a poor person with the rationalization that others can do it; same goes for living in Thailand.

However, the best gauge of how much you will spend in Thailand is how much you spend in your home country. If you live comfortably, how are you going to give it up?

Edited June 26, 2007 by Furbie

[blizzard]

good life for single guy is ok at 60k. 100k you lost me, you barfine everynight and twice on sundays........lol.

[Furbie]

good life for single guy is ok at 60k. 100k you lost me, you barfine everynight and twice on sundays........lol.

You must not do too well financially if you think 60k-100k is a lot ot earn for a single person - don't forget the tax man too.

Rent:25k; Mobile:1k; Cable:2.5k; Maid:2.8k; ADSL: .6; Transpo: 2k; Electric: 3k.

Let's see, that's around 37k before I even eat or drink, and my digs are not exactly lavish. Plus, I put a little something aside every month – can't work forever.

I make enough that I can go where I want, when I want and don't have to worry about it too much.

While I could easily shift more money to a nicer place or save more – I prefer to enjoy myself bit – good food, good drink, the good seats at the movies and travel a bit. I would never be able to do it on less than 80k per month – and if I made that, I would immediately be looking to make more. While I may not be rich or on some fat package, I did not grow up poor and I don't intend to ever live poor.

That is why I said the best gauge for your spending in Thailand is your spending habits from before.

[Make]

Some ppl on this thread are stating the odd question of "well if Thais can do it, so can I". Are you Thai, are you accustomed to eating Som Tam all day..

If you dont have family and drinking is not your main hobby 25 000 a month should be alright.

Currys sold by street vendors cost 25-30 baht and food is very delicious and healthy. Yes I can eat it every day all day I find it much better than farang food.

You can have a decent apartment for 5000 baht a month. If you want to live in farang style Condos where is kitchen and so on it cost much more. But I prefer to eat out.

Forget maid! Apartments are usually secured and you can get your room cleaned and clothes washed for very cheap.

If you live nearby you can go to Lumphini Park to run and gym fee is 200b a month. Or you can go to Silom and pay 5000 a month.

If Thai people come to my country and want to eat thai food(and they want), drink thai beer, use taxis and other services every day as they do at home they need a lot of money. Same thing in Thailand: A comfortable Western life in BKK cost a lot but in Rome do as a Romans do.. And actually i enjoy it. If I want to live a western style life I will go to western county.

Sorry my English, I promise to practise.

[bankei]

I rented a beautiful apartment in Ratchada area, on the subway. It was 5,500B per month, partially furnished.

Internet was 500B per month.

Utilities roughly 500B.

Cable TV was about 500B too I think.

Food can vary greatly depending on what you eat - 30B per dish and up.

same with transportation,

Bankei

[blizzard]

i pay 9800 butts a month. 5 steps away fromm bts station.

[whitethai]

Whee are the Western food bars?

How much is a beer?

A friend of mine quoted these prices for living in Bangkok. Are these ballpark figures or are they not realistic at all?

5500 rent

2000 utilities

10,000 food

1500 internet

5000 nightlife

3000 transportation

totaling 27,000 baht/mo

Joe

How long is a piece of string???

40,000 minimum...more like 70,000 to live a "Western" lifestyle.

RAZZ

I would push that to 50k min, 80k confomrtable for downtown living. If always communting to the Western food and bars does not bother you, you can cut this down.

[whitethai]

I rented a beautiful apartment in Ratchada area, on the subway. It was 5,500B per month, partially furnished.

Internet was 500B per month.

Utilities roughly 500B.

Cable TV was about 500B too I think.

Food can vary greatly depending on what you eat - 30B per dish and up.

same with transportation,

Bankei

That is cheap I prefer wifi internet no telephone bills

Anymore apartments going same price same quality??

How long can I stay in Thailand on normal visa?

[Furbie]

I rented a beautiful apartment in Ratchada area, on the subway. It was 5,500B per month, partially furnished.

Internet was 500B per month.

Utilities roughly 500B.

Cable TV was about 500B too I think.

Food can vary greatly depending on what you eat - 30B per dish and up.

same with transportation,

Bankei

So, here are my questions for you; what do you mean by a beautiful apartment, as this is highly subjective?

How big was it? Did it have a kitchen? Was it a studio or a 1 bedroom? Was it a modern building or a place about to fall down? Did it have a balcony? Did it have a Western style bathroom with a tub? Did it have a Western style kitchen or just a hot plate? What year was this - because prices have spiked horribly in the last 2 years?

For 5,500 baht, I would think you were living in a 35sqm or smaller studio, with a Thai style stand up shower and toilet combo and no kitchen, in a bare bones building with no pool, no gym and no security door.

If I am wrong, I will start looking for a new place in Ratchada tomorrow.

[think_too_mut]

I rented a beautiful apartment in Ratchada area, on the subway. It was 5,500B per month, partially furnished.

Internet was 500B per month.

Utilities roughly 500B.

Cable TV was about 500B too I think.

Food can vary greatly depending on what you eat - 30B per dish and up.

same with transportation,

Bankei

So, here are my questions for you; what do you mean by a beautiful apartment, as this is highly subjective?

How big was it? Did it have a kitchen? Was it a studio or a 1 bedroom? Was it a modern building or a place about to fall down? Did it have a balcony? Did it have a Western style bathroom with a tub? Did it have a Western style kitchen or just a hot plate? What year was this - because prices have spiked horribly in the last 2 years?

For 5,500 baht, I would think you were living in a 35sqm or smaller studio, with a Thai style stand up shower and toilet combo and no kitchen, in a bare bones building with no pool, no gym and no security door.

If I am wrong, I will start looking for a new place in Ratchada tomorrow.

Is it 5500B now? It was 3000B a few years go. A pit you you get for that money, even there.

Utilities "roughly 500B per month"....could be, per week or half a week?

What our (nominally) 8000B Ekkamai 1 room was before, now is only 10% cheaper than 20,000B unit. No markups on water, electricity, phone. And all the amenities the building has.

Not that it is impossible to live cheaply in BKK. Just don't tell us that's the way to go.

[Fred Sanford]

Nowadays a 3 star Hotel in the heart of Bangkok goes for 2500 per night; I don't wanna see what 5K is going to rent me for a month. As for the 4K for visa exp per month, that is spot on

Edited July 2, 2007 by Fred Sanford

[Scott123]

If you want to save on the visa part of the budget and learn Thai have a look at the Walen School advert on TV. It offers a year course (twice a week lessons) in Thai with a year visa for 29,500. So thats less than 2,500 pcm and you get free lessons thrown in. It has certainly given me food for thought as I was getting ready to apply for a settlement visa. This looks simpler. But then I have not seen the small print yet!

I though you could just get a admission letter (pay the application fee) from some Thai unversity, then get a ED visa from a Thai ambassy. After arriving in LOS, you don't need to enroll in any class.

Am I too naive?

Edited July 3, 2007 by Scott123

[blizzard]

they advertise here also. it would be great as long as you dont have to show up for class.

[sgunn65]

they advertise here also. it would be great as long as you dont have to show up for class.

Hmm? Don't you think you are slightly missing the point here? Living in another country is enhanced by speaking some of the language and if you are payig for lessons would it not be a benefit to attend. The bars and girls will still be there in the evening!!

[DtingDtong]

I did spend 180,000-200,000 á month over a longer period in the country, mostly in Bkk. Did stay in nice hotels though, and went out quite much. If I return I hope 100,000 per month will be enough for me plus gf in a condo around 30,000. Will need som magic for that to happen I think .

[bankei]

I rented a beautiful apartment in Ratchada area, on the subway. It was 5,500B per month, partially furnished.

Internet was 500B per month.

Utilities roughly 500B.

Cable TV was about 500B too I think.

Food can vary greatly depending on what you eat - 30B per dish and up.

same with transportation,

Bankei

So, here are my questions for you; what do you mean by a beautiful apartment, as this is highly subjective?

How big was it? Did it have a kitchen? Was it a studio or a 1 bedroom? Was it a modern building or a place about to fall down? Did it have a balcony? Did it have a Western style bathroom with a tub? Did it have a Western style kitchen or just a hot plate? What year was this - because prices have spiked horribly in the last 2 years?

For 5,500 baht, I would think you were living in a 35sqm or smaller studio, with a Thai style stand up shower and toilet combo and no kitchen, in a bare bones building with no pool, no gym and no security door.

If I am wrong, I will start looking for a new place in Ratchada tomorrow.

Hi

Sorry for the Late reply.

My place was rented early last year. It was a studio, no kitchen, but had a balcony. I had a kitchen sink setup on the balcony with room for cooking etc out there. The bathroom had a shower with a western style toilet. The main room had a wardrobe, bed, TV cabinet (but no TV) and table and chairs included, and the room was airconditioned. I am not sure how big the place was, but enough room for a lounge, table and double bed with plenty left over. The complex had a pool and a gym, and security doors with security guards stationed outside 24hrs. The building was modern too.