Religious Dominance

[Monroe]

I've noticed for some time that in relationships where either spouse has a different religion from the other, one is often made to convert. Rather, as the usual situation goes, the wife (Thai, Buddhist) is obligated by the husband (Anglo, Christian) to convert to his religion. Same goes for the children, when they're born.

Before I go further, I'll give a little background on myself.

I'm the child (recently 17 =) of an American-Thai couple. My father is an attorney and my mother a housemaker (layman's terms: unemployed).

I don't believe he had a religion when they met and she was buddhist. Twenty years later and they're still the same in those terms, but they have 4 children who have followed the footsteps of their father (again, only in terms of religion).

This leads me to believe further that the religion of the source of income will always be the dominant one.

I'm interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on this or, to those with experience in the matter, what you did in this situation, which direction your children went, etc...

Hope this isn't too touchy a subject.

[jdinasia]

So ... your dad did not make your mom NOT be religious? Did he make her not discuss Buddhism with you? Or did you just over time not grow into Buddhism?

Being a Buddhist myself ... and involved with a Thai for several years ... I am in an odd boat because he is Buddhist the way most Americans are Christian. (on his driver's licencse and hospital records) I on the other hand go to temple and practice my beliefs

[Monroe]

So ... your dad did not make your mom NOT be religious? Did he make her not discuss Buddhism with you? Or did you just over time not grow into Buddhism?

Being a Buddhist myself ... and involved with a Thai for several years ... I am in an odd boat because he is Buddhist the way most Americans are Christian. (on his driver's licencse and hospital records) I on the other hand go to temple and practice my beliefs

Nope, she's still a practicing Buddhist. I've become very familiar with the religion and have a great respect for it, but as you said, didn't grow into it (although I still go to temples on special occasions, enjoy the Buddhist New Year , etc...)

I was first introduced to the concept of religion at age 5 or so by my classmates (who also revealed to me that I was going to h*ll, but I don't hold a grudge =)

[jdinasia]

I would say then ... like most people growing up where parents are of different beliefs (and one is NOT a domineering ###### ) you did what most do ... you looked at it .. gave it some thought and moved on.

My mom was a lapsed Catholic and my father switched from being a Southern Baptist to Unitarian/Universalism (long stories with both!) They did their best with me ... enrolled me in a Boy Scout troup attached to a Catholic church .. and Dad took me to church whenever I wanted to attend. When I quit going so did he for the most part. I explored religion, bouncing from one denomination to the next over the next 15 years. Including being ordained in one denomination; before chucking it all and converting to Busshism (before my first trip to Asia).

Years later they were both surprised when I got an MDiv from a prestegious Uni (before becoming Buddhist)

[jumnien]

My father converted from Christian to Catholicism to marry my mother. Five years later he converted to homosexuality, but that's another story. Anyway, I became Buddhist and married a Buddhist woman.

I think many children follow in their parents footsteps when it comes to religion, especially if their parents are both Buddhist. In my experience, Christianity often inspires some kind of a revolt against authority with many people who were raised in Christian homes identifying as "atheist" or another religion. This is very common with Christianity, less so with buddhism.

In Thailand, many Westerners will identify as "no religion" when asked on government forms. This tends to make Thais feel very uncomfortable or sad for them. Westerners often see religion as something to be overcome (see many threads on TV), Thais see religion as something beautiful and essential for the most part.

[leisurely]

I have no religion but Mr Man is devoutly R/C. Before we married many moons ago there was a great deal of pressure from his family for him to not marry me or for me to convert. As I couldn't convert because I didn't believe, the pressure not to marry the heathen intensified. He resisted . We have two daughters, both of whom are being brought up in his faith. It is no skin off my nose and I get a lay in on Sundays when he takes them to mass with him.

I think it is up to the individuals if they are of different faiths, to present the religions to the child in a positive way. If I were Hindu and in the same situation I would like to think I wouldn't slag off catholicism and I would like to think that Mr wouldn't belittle my beliefs. I do think though that it is important that you introduce religion to the child early enough, I have friends who call themselves christian but never enter a church and state that their children can make their own minds up. That is all well and good but they have to have been presented with the options first.

[Nibor1945]

I was a Christian (non-practicing) until I married a Thai wife, over the 12 years of our marriage I sort of drifted into Buddhism. Our children are being brought up as Buddhists (it's more a part of everyday life than religion) but were enrolled in a Catholic "Bi-lingual" school which helps to open their minds to the fact that there are other religions out there.

I try to explain that extremism in anything (including religion) is dangerous and certainly counterproductive, thereafter it's pretty much up to them to make their own choices. I believe that providing you have shown that there are alternatives and provided sufficient unbiased information, you have done all you can in that respect. Certainly forcing an opinion on a person (big or small) will lead to a rejection of that opinion/point of view.

[chanchao]

> I've noticed for some time that in relationships where either spouse has a

> different religion from the other, one is often made to convert.

I don't agree at all.

It actually seems a lot of Westerners who wash up on these shores have an outspoken dislike for religion, specifically for their own ex-religion or Christianity in general, and of course Islam, needless to say. It seems they have less aversion to Buddhism, the religion of their adopted place of residence after all.

This is based on visiting a church occasionally when forced by circumstance, and noticing that all of the Westerners there are either relatively short-term expats who's company plucked them off their chairs in the US and sent them to Thailand, or people involved with religious groups/NGOs/missionaries already.

I think people who voluntarily move to Thailand do so because they love true freedom and perhaps some hedonism, which are two things that don't sit very well with most religions.

Edited June 27, 2007 by chanchao

[wileycoyote]

> I've noticed for some time that in relationships where either spouse has a

> different religion from the other, one is often made to convert.

I don't agree at all.

We allow our children to attend both Buddhist & Christian ceremonies and schools

As a family ,we attend both Buddhist & Christian religious festivals.

My wife and I were married in both Christian and Buddhist ceremonies in respective countries.

We have no desire to convert one another or our children.

It will be their choice ,there are many paths to God

Wiley Coyote

[Jersey_UK]

Although married to a Thai woman we do not have any kids........my initial answer was that in the absence of any parent banging the drum for any one religion that maybe the dominat religion in the society in question plays a part................when many of your freinds growing up are one thing and holidays etc are based around the same and you get taught / pick up stuff as if it was "gospel" and just go from their.

However, in my case my father was techinically christian but with a total dislike of all religions, but he did not impose his views on us. A step mother us kids had was a bit more "jam and jerasulam" traditional C of E, until she later went barking mad - by which time she had gone through new age mumbo jumbo to being a born again happy clappy xtian......but by that time us kids were old enough to not to have anything inflicted on us.

The Thai wife on the other hand was born Budhist, although by all accounts her parents were not especially devout. In any event they died before she was a teenager. her secondary school was Muslim (which although free operated by selection, and as known as a good school was always oversubscribed).......of course she picked up lots of Muslim stuff and had to wear a headscarf (but not full a bin bag, as they were a Thai school first and Muslim 2nd)...........of course having a mixture of Budhist and Muslim in her formative years meant.............she later converted to Christianity (and up dated her ID card accordingly) partly out of pragmatism (which I won't go into fully - but Xtians are good prison visitors!)........her change in religion was also partly due to being dissillusion with the Thai Monk system of Buddhism, and the gap she saw between teachings and the behaviour she saw.

Xtian stuff she likes is Xmas and the prospect of getting buried in a hole in the ground (and not burnt ALA Budhist), but this latter bit may have more to do with her love of horror stories where quite often it seems that the person being burnt isn't 100% dead. I think the things she has against Islam, is the 5 times a day stuff, the headgear, way too restrictive with women, snd marrying women off too young - but she loved the Thai muslim food when she was growing up. Their is also some Buddhist stuff about the Moon that does still resonate for her very strongly.

Long ago I asked her what flavour of Christian she was (C of E, Catholic, Methodist etc), she thought about it for a moment or two and answered "Thai" ..............I was later very pleased as it meant that we would not be having any discussions about me pretending to convert to being a Papist........or trying to persuade me to sit through 6 hours of drivel to get married.

Although we have talked about religion, we have not had any great theological discussions, for neither of us is it important.

In Truth i would say she is 25% Budhist (Thai), 20% Christian and 100% sceptical of all organised religion.

Me is 110% "N/a" and 100% sceptical of all religion (but I do have a live and let live attitude to others)- for me it's always the singer not the song.

If we had any kids, then who knows <deleted> they would become? - Moonies or Baptists probably

Not a great deal of help to OP, but just to say / show not everything is Thai = Buddhist and Farang = Xtian.

[El Taco Loco]

Out of respect to my wife, I go to temples with her and her brother gave me one of the Jatukam medallions and I wear it when I am going to be seen by her family. Otherwise, I take it off.

I am agnostic. My son, only 15 months old, could care less. But as we live in Thailand, he will most likely follow his mom to temples, etc etc.

I won't convert but I will not ask her to be agnostic, either.

The OP sounds like a very nice person and cudos to his parents! Isn't that what is really important?

[a99az]

To each his own.

[Bredbury Blue]

Surely it all comes down to how religious one or both parents are.

In my case, my dad is protestant but not religious, my mum is catholic but was happy to move away from the strong religious bent of her family, they married in the early '50s when that kind of a joining together was frowned upon, they brought my brothers and i up with no particular religious bent - think i'm protestant if anything but i've never been to church in my life apart from weddings and to admire the architecture.

My wife is thai and buddhist, we have kids who go to a trilingual school (Eng, Thai and some Chinese), the school has mainly thai teachers but some farlangs and Filipinos, i don't talk about religion with them at all, my wife takes them to the Wat very occasionally and Buddha (but not Jesus yet) is mentioned from time.

I'm a great believer in letting people decide if religion is for them, and if it is, let them explore it themselves.

[chatette]

what an interesting discussion. my Thai husband declares us buddhist on all official documents and I usually declare so too to avoid disturbing Thais, who have been taught that no religion equates to communists and antimonachists and paths we shall not explore. I was brought up christian and have happy memories of sunday school and singing in the choir at xmas. I stopped going to church just before being a teenager, when my parents had a falling out with the diosese because they were constantly being asked for money. Was no drama and I don't think I was aware of it at the time. I favor buddhism as a philosophy but not a religion and avoid temples like the plague since my mother-in-law declared, with no hint of irony, that they were full of theives after someone swiped my wallet during the few second I wasn't guarding it in order to wai pra. Daughter has more knowledge of archain Catholic saints I've never heard of after some years at a French-language Catholic school altho she's supposedly buddhist. She's also into reading kiddies books of the Buddha's life, so is building her reportoire. That said, she's been to a temple about twice in the almost past decade since she was born (well, much spent out of Thailand) the first time before she was four and the last a couple of months ago when we decided to perambulate the Nakon Pathom chedi (altho had to watch others to be sure to go in the correct direction!) when we happened to be passing and ducked in to escape a traffic jam. I took husband to a vippasana retreat with me more than a decade ago and, altho he's the one to declare us buddhist, he had no clue what was involved and spent the entire weekend sorting out problems instead of letting them go. Quite hilarious in a way. On the other hand, no different from the declared Christian who has no clue about humanity.