Thai Anti Farang Topic...

[chavy]

I read the first post and thought . . I'm not sure what this is about. But I persevered. I've now read the entire thread, and I still don't have a clue what it is we're debating.

I know I can be a bit of a dunce at times. Can someone give me an overview please cos I'm really confused.

I was about to post the same reply. I've ran through this for about 20 mins now but the original post was lacking in any depth (a bit like this really!) now the threads gone off completly now ranting on about doctors working in Canada etc.

Let's face it, we are looked at as walking ATM'S fair game to be plundered at every available opportunity, from the working girls to the geezer who runs the corner shop.

[chinthee]

I read the first post and thought . . I'm not sure what this is about. But I persevered. I've now read the entire thread, and I still don't have a clue what it is we're debating.

I know I can be a bit of a dunce at times. Can someone give me an overview please cos I'm really confused.

I was about to post the same reply. I've ran through this for about 20 mins now but the original post was lacking in any depth (a bit like this really!) now the threads gone off completly now ranting on about doctors working in Canada etc.

Let's face it, we are looked at as walking ATM'S fair game to be plundered at every available opportunity, from the working girls to the geezer who runs the corner shop.

I recently drove up to Korat and while I was driving received an emergency phone call from a good Thai female friend of mine. She was in an emergency pickle stuck at a hospital trying to check out her daughter and needed a quick loan via ATM bank transfer. It had to be a BKK bank ATM. So, here I was, stopping at every PTT and Shell, at every small town etc., until I found the ATM.

I've gotten some laughs among friends when relating this story as I now refer to myself as a, here it comes,..."a Driving ATM."

[sukanyacondo]

I read the first post and thought . . I'm not sure what this is about. But I persevered. I've now read the entire thread, and I still don't have a clue what it is we're debating.

I know I can be a bit of a dunce at times. Can someone give me an overview please cos I'm really confused.

I was about to post the same reply. I've ran through this for about 20 mins now but the original post was lacking in any depth (a bit like this really!) now the threads gone off completly now ranting on about doctors working in Canada etc.

Let's face it, we are looked at as walking ATM'S fair game to be plundered at every available opportunity, from the working girls to the geezer who runs the corner shop.

[sukanyacondo]

Dont know about the "working women" but have never been asked to borrow money from any Thais I know or dont know. The local store owner is abit annoying as everytime I try and speak Thai to him he insists on practicing his English on me

[wolfmanjack]

Here is what you need to understand about the world. Human beings, by nature, are racist, xenophobic creatures that find solace in groups of similar people, who then get together to complain about other people. What kind of person you are depends as too how far you go in your own personal racist, xenphobic attitude.

Before I get jumped on, let me explain.

How many times have you sat around with a bunch of Western friends at a bar and said – Thai people this, Thai people that, God they piss me off when they do this or that? I know I have.

Now, do you think that the Thais don't sit around and say the same things? It is human nature to complain. As long as it does not go any further, no problem – as you are never going to stop it.

Back in the US in the 80's, the US had a big problem with the Japanese – they had too much Yen and where spreading it around the US. It led to a real round of Japanese bashing in movies, TV shows, on the radio, etc. But at the end of the day, people who had Japanese friends were still friends with them, people still ate Japanese food, people still bought Japanese cars, people still traveled to Japan and people still sold products to the Japanese. Human nature.

Sure, some Thais are anti-farrang. Some farrangs are anti-Thai. But at the end of the day, it is no different than anywhere else in the world. It is human nature to complain about what is going on around you – be it Thais, Japanese, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.

And yes, some on the misperceptions that occur in Thailand are from a basic lack of understanding. As I have said in a previous post, my current GF was floored at the way some Thais attempt to extract money from me. She could not believe that Thais were behaving this way – she thought my life here was some golden shangrila, but there are just different sorts of problems for Westerners.

But I will tell you, if I was a Thai in NYC, I bet that there would be cabbies trying to rip me off as well – hel_l, people from Arkansas get ripped off in NYC, just like people from Issan get ripped off in BKK. Human nature.

I will say, my Thai friends are solid people, and my two closest Thai friends are two of the best people I have ever know - as long as I don't complain about Thailand to them, we can discuss about anything.

My 2 best thai friends complain about thailand just as much as I do. It is because they have the same problems that I do.

My wife and our friends also complain about Thailand ,about Thai companies who dont take care of their customers, about crazy taxi drivers, about bad service from TOT, bad food in some restaurants, crikey their such a bunch of moaners!!! Never heard them complain about farangs yet but then we dont live near a major farang hotspot and Im sure even I'd compalin about farangs if I did. Nothig worse for me than a pi****d up farang mouthing off or chanting football songs etc semi naked.

When I was in Samui once I was in an internet cafe when a German couple came in and had a slight problem with their internet connection, and just ended up <deleted> and blinding at the poor Thai woman there. Made me feel sad to be a farang and sure as h**l must have given the woman a shock. They stormed off banging doors etc way over the top. I like to stay away from farang tourist areas, too much low life in them for me. No offence to any living there.

Another internet cafe Thai owner friend in Phuket of mine often has farangs arguing over 2-3 baht after they have spent some time using their phone on an international call but she does not think all farangs are like this. people are the same everywhere good n bad as she says.

Maybe I should be a bit more specific about my last statement – complaining about bad service from certain companies or restaurants, lousy cab drivers etc. is not an issue – but blanket statements like "Thailand has bad service" or blanket negative statements about Thai people get them upset.

they should be upset because it is true. The only place you get good service is in 5 star hotels and boy do you pay for it.

Maybe someone should figure out what to do about it. They have barber schools how about a waitress school ? Or a customer service school ? I do not know what the answer is for the bad service is but most of the thais that i see want to get paid for not working. My thai friend had burmese workers and thai workers. She pays the burmese workers more than she pays the thais. You should hear them complain. My sister in laws won't hire a thai. they have burmese sales people. A new person works from 2 pm until midnight and gets 6,000 per month. A good sales person gets 10,000 per month plus a commision. And they jump from shop to shop getting more each time because they are in demand.

[chicagogato]

No, they were not talking about the sex industry... Funny... Anyway, I am looking for a 2 way conversation, I don't want to force feed topic on here. If you find no value here then please, go to the next topic... I don't know how much I am allowed to say and I don't want to get the topic closed. I will try to say what I can when I can but I would guess that you could see where some of the problems can come in? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more? When the father complains about the foreigner getting paid so much more and doing less work do you think his son or daughter will like the foreigners more or less?

I know here in the USA we LOVE it when foreigners get paid more than us! (That is a joke....).

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

If you're talking about the profession of women in places like Soi Cowboy, which we're not supposed to talk about, it's a poor complaint from your friends as percentages show more Thai men than farang use the baht in these ways.

Ahhhhh got it again .....

Let me help you out of this quandry ....... Thailand is NOT the USA.

There are not a HUGE number of farang working in direct competition (for wages) with Thai people. Western credentialed teachers get paid more than Thai teachers to teach the same subjects quite often and that is about the ONLY field where the numbers are large. I rather doubt that too many of the Thai teachers are very upset about that. I WILL tell you 100% that the student's parents are not upset about it. They WANT white teachers at the schools.

I know you have visited Pattaya and the like some few times ... but really seriously doubt you have your finger on the pulse (Dr reference from earlier ) on descrimination and Thai sentiment.

edit--spelling .. after all it IS 3am here

Check your own pulse taking technique. Not every Western Credentialed teacher working in Thai schools is white. (reference to descrimination ;-)

[jdinasia]

Ahhhhh got it again .....

Let me help you out of this quandry ....... Thailand is NOT the USA.

There are not a HUGE number of farang working in direct competition (for wages) with Thai people. Western credentialed teachers get paid more than Thai teachers to teach the same subjects quite often and that is about the ONLY field where the numbers are large. I rather doubt that too many of the Thai teachers are very upset about that. I WILL tell you 100% that the student's parents are not upset about it. They WANT white teachers at the schools.

I know you have visited Pattaya and the like some few times ... but really seriously doubt you have your finger on the pulse (Dr reference from earlier ) on descrimination and Thai sentiment.

edit--spelling .. after all it IS 3am here

Check your own pulse taking technique. Not every Western Credentialed teacher working in Thai schools is white. (reference to descrimination ;-)

Did not say that they are ... but I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%

[chicagogato]

Ahhhhh got it again .....

Let me help you out of this quandry ....... Thailand is NOT the USA.

There are not a HUGE number of farang working in direct competition (for wages) with Thai people. Western credentialed teachers get paid more than Thai teachers to teach the same subjects quite often and that is about the ONLY field where the numbers are large. I rather doubt that too many of the Thai teachers are very upset about that. I WILL tell you 100% that the student's parents are not upset about it. They WANT white teachers at the schools.

I know you have visited Pattaya and the like some few times ... but really seriously doubt you have your finger on the pulse (Dr reference from earlier ) on descrimination and Thai sentiment.

edit--spelling .. after all it IS 3am here

Check your own pulse taking technique. Not every Western Credentialed teacher working in Thai schools is white. (reference to descrimination ;-)

Did not say that they are ... but I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%

Personaly working for a learning institution that many "white teachers," couldn't walk into on their best day. And there are many more like me, here in Thailand, doing the same. Think you should add "In my opinion," to your next myopic post.

"I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%"

I've a feeling you might stand behind a great number opinions which happen to be flawed and somewhat ignotant. Just the same, has it ever occurred to you that some people, Thai included, are intrested in a teacher who can actually help their children learn something, more so than what color he/she is? Oh, I forgot. You're to busy standing behind your own ignorance to see the wisdom in this.

[jdinasia]

Ahhhhh got it again .....

Let me help you out of this quandry ....... Thailand is NOT the USA.

There are not a HUGE number of farang working in direct competition (for wages) with Thai people. Western credentialed teachers get paid more than Thai teachers to teach the same subjects quite often and that is about the ONLY field where the numbers are large. I rather doubt that too many of the Thai teachers are very upset about that. I WILL tell you 100% that the student's parents are not upset about it. They WANT white teachers at the schools.

I know you have visited Pattaya and the like some few times ... but really seriously doubt you have your finger on the pulse (Dr reference from earlier ) on descrimination and Thai sentiment.

edit--spelling .. after all it IS 3am here

Check your own pulse taking technique. Not every Western Credentialed teacher working in Thai schools is white. (reference to descrimination ;-)

Did not say that they are ... but I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%

Personaly working for a learning institution that many "white teachers," couldn't walk into on their best day. And there are many more like me, here in Thailand, doing the same. Think you should add "In my opinion," to your next myopic post.

"I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%"

I've a feeling you might stand behind a great number opinions which happen to be flawed and somewhat ignotant. Just the same, has it ever occurred to you that some people, Thai included, are intrested in a teacher who can actually help their children learn something, more so than what color he/she is? Oh, I forgot. You're to busy standing behind your own ignorance to see the wisdom in this.

you could be right

Then again that would tend to fly in the face of not only common wisdom/experience in Thailand but also observable fact.

[chicagogato]

Ahhhhh got it again .....

Let me help you out of this quandry ....... Thailand is NOT the USA.

There are not a HUGE number of farang working in direct competition (for wages) with Thai people. Western credentialed teachers get paid more than Thai teachers to teach the same subjects quite often and that is about the ONLY field where the numbers are large. I rather doubt that too many of the Thai teachers are very upset about that. I WILL tell you 100% that the student's parents are not upset about it. They WANT white teachers at the schools.

I know you have visited Pattaya and the like some few times ... but really seriously doubt you have your finger on the pulse (Dr reference from earlier ) on descrimination and Thai sentiment.

edit--spelling .. after all it IS 3am here

Check your own pulse taking technique. Not every Western Credentialed teacher working in Thai schools is white. (reference to descrimination ;-)

Did not say that they are ... but I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%

Personaly working for a learning institution that many "white teachers," couldn't walk into on their best day. And there are many more like me, here in Thailand, doing the same. Think you should add "In my opinion," to your next myopic post.

"I stand behind the "They want white faces" 100%"

I've a feeling you might stand behind a great number opinions which happen to be flawed and somewhat ignotant. Just the same, has it ever occurred to you that some people, Thai included, are intrested in a teacher who can actually help their children learn something, more so than what color he/she is? Oh, I forgot. You're to busy standing behind your own ignorance to see the wisdom in this.

you could be right

Then again that would tend to fly in the face of not only common wisdom/experience in Thailand but also observable fact.

You forgot to add, "In my opinion," again.

[jdinasia]

you could be right

Then again that would tend to fly in the face of not only common wisdom/experience in Thailand but also observable fact.

You forgot to add, "In my opinion," again.

Nope .... didn't forget it at all. I am also not saying that wanting the white teachers is right .. socially appropriate .. etc ... just saying it is a fact

(I do note that you don't add 'in my opinion" to anything you write )

[qwertz]

I knew it, just checked in to see if there was any sort of trend away from the usual handbag swinging.

Sadly not.

Ho hum, back to bed.

Edited June 21, 2007 by qwertz

[Pepe']

I knew it, just checked in to see if there was any sort of trend away from the usual handbag swinging.

Sadly not.

Ho hum, back to bed.

---------------------------

Hey that's not a hand bag honey! That' just what I carry instead or an attache' case...

[chicagogato]

you could be right

Then again that would tend to fly in the face of not only common wisdom/experience in Thailand but also observable fact.

You forgot to add, "In my opinion," again.

Nope .... didn't forget it at all. I am also not saying that wanting the white teachers is right .. socially appropriate .. etc ... just saying it is a fact

(I do note that you don't add 'in my opinion" to anything you write )

I would add "In my opinion," and feel it would be appropriate, if I were making statements which are built upon conjecture. However, this isn't the case here. Every thing I've said is a fact. And what you are calling fact is in essence, presumptive inference which is based on your own limited opinions. How dare you assume to know the position and attitude of every single Thai person, employer, and institution in Thailand? That in itself is laughable.

"I am also not saying that wanting the white teachers is right .. socially appropriate .. etc ... just saying it is a fact"

So, you see, precursing these types of statements with "In my opinion," excuses ignorance.

On the other hand, you did say I may be right. I'll just leave it at that.

So, I'm off to bed oh great and powerful all seeing white guy! Have a good one.

[jdinasia]

rather than quote all that crap yet again ... scroll up and see where I was talking about the sudent's parents and not

the position and attitude of every single Thai person, employer, and institution in Thailand

I know you may not like it ... but it just happens to be the case ... not for all parents ... but for the vast majority. therefore I stand behind my position still .. and all your posturing and avoidance and shifting who was being discussed amounts to very little.

BTW ... head on over to the teacher's forum ... or anywhere else where Thailand and skin tone are discussed ... and let them have it!!

I would rather see skin tone ... and race NOT be as large of an issue as it is here, but it is here in Thailand that we are talking about. I am glad that credentialed teachers that are not white can get good jobs sometimes. I am also aware that in MOST situations that if 2 people walked into a school ... one white and one not white and applied for a teaching position. All other things being equal the white one will get the job. (and sadly far too often ... all other things NOT being equal ... and in favor of the non-white ... the white one will get the job anyways!. This may NOT be true at your fine institution ... but it is by and large just a fact of life in Thailand!)

[qwertz]

I knew it, just checked in to see if there was any sort of trend away from the usual handbag swinging.

Sadly not.

Ho hum, back to bed.

---------------------------

Hey that's not a hand bag honey! That' just what I carry instead or an attache' case...

So long as that's a pistol in your pocket and you're not just glad to see me.

[Pepe']

I knew it, just checked in to see if there was any sort of trend away from the usual handbag swinging.

Sadly not.

Ho hum, back to bed.

---------------------------

Hey that's not a hand bag honey! That' just what I carry instead or an attache' case...

So long as that's a pistol in your pocket and you're not just glad to see me.

----------------------

[observer21]

One day when I was in Pattaya. I was walking with my camera to take pictures of anything I found interesting. I saw an older Thai lady waiting to catch a Baht-Bus. Each time a baht-bus approached, her body language indicated that she wanted to get on but the driver didn't stop. I watched this happen 2 or 3 times. When I got to where she was standing, I stood next to her and waited. A baht-bus stopped, she got on and I continued my walk.

Can you imagine how much damage this does to the Thai / Visitor relationship? Already they are paid less in many cases, and then to hear stories of service workers ignoring and or being rude to them because of the chance if getting a few baht more?

And with American music and movies spreading the word to fight the power..... I only see bigger problems coming.

What on earth are you talking about - where is the complaint?  Fight the power????????

[PaulUSA302]

I think many are confused as to why some want a particular color, creed or race to do certain things. In the 40's and 50's everyone in the USA wanted a black nanny. Today in the USA, everyone wants a latino yard worker. housekeeper. No Thai has ever told me that they wish they were white or want to be white but they do want lighter skin for status. Same as most blacks here in the USA want lighter skin but it does not mean they want to be white but every race has its Michael Jackson.

I want to keep my skin light sometimes but I don't want to loose my brown. A lot of the skin issues in Thailand... I can relate to the skin issues in my own racial community here in the USA. Many of the skin bleaching creams the Thai use are the same being sold to us blacks here in the USA.

You may be thinking one thing as to why a Thai wants a White skin to teach the language of white skin and a Thai may have totally different reasons for wanting it.

you could be right

Then again that would tend to fly in the face of not only common wisdom/experience in Thailand but also observable fact.

You forgot to add, "In my opinion," again.

Nope .... didn't forget it at all. I am also not saying that wanting the white teachers is right .. socially appropriate .. etc ... just saying it is a fact

(I do note that you don't add 'in my opinion" to anything you write )

I would add "In my opinion," and feel it would be appropriate, if I were making statements which are built upon conjecture. However, this isn't the case here. Every thing I've said is a fact. And what you are calling fact is in essence, presumptive inference which is based on your own limited opinions. How dare you assume to know the position and attitude of every single Thai person, employer, and institution in Thailand? That in itself is laughable.

"I am also not saying that wanting the white teachers is right .. socially appropriate .. etc ... just saying it is a fact"

So, you see, precursing these types of statements with "In my opinion," excuses ignorance.

On the other hand, you did say I may be right. I'll just leave it at that.

So, I'm off to bed oh great and powerful all seeing white guy! Have a good one.

[qwertz]

Ho hum, no improvement, think I'll turn in.

[retirednavyman]

What I have heard over and over again are that they don't like the Farang throwing their money around and forcing their fellow Thai to be treated as lowers for the money. They did not like the attitude of the Farang towards the Thai people. The did not like the Farang men coming for their women. They did not like how the Farang look down on their society and culture.

At one party the guys began to talk about the "Farang" attitude, the "farang" money and how the "farang" think their money is everything and because they think their money is everything we make them pay more for everything and on and on.

This is what they told me on my many trips to Thailand. I don't know why I am so lucky to get to know their "Not so Polite but real" thoughts. Maybe because I am a Black American they feel as if I can relate. Maybe they are telling me this because they think it is what I want to hear.... But it has happened too often and in too many different situations for me to think they are telling me their feelings to please me.

Don't put all farangs into one stereotypical category, not all farangs look down upon Thai people, culture and society.

[keemao]

After reading this thread I remembered the old days back in the schoolyard...............

[PaulUSA302]

Sorry, not my words, it was their words and I am sure they know that you can't paint everyone with the same broad brush.

I am not here to defend their views or explain their views, I only wanted to share with you all some opinions and feelings that you may not know about.

Every other culture and people are changing and adapting to a changing world and I think Thailand is changing and adapting right along with the rest of the world.

What I have heard over and over again are that they don't like the Farang throwing their money around and forcing their fellow Thai to be treated as lowers for the money. They did not like the attitude of the Farang towards the Thai people. The did not like the Farang men coming for their women. They did not like how the Farang look down on their society and culture.

At one party the guys began to talk about the "Farang" attitude, the "farang" money and how the "farang" think their money is everything and because they think their money is everything we make them pay more for everything and on and on.

This is what they told me on my many trips to Thailand. I don't know why I am so lucky to get to know their "Not so Polite but real" thoughts. Maybe because I am a Black American they feel as if I can relate. Maybe they are telling me this because they think it is what I want to hear.... But it has happened too often and in too many different situations for me to think they are telling me their feelings to please me.

Don't put all farangs into one stereotypical category, not all farangs look down upon Thai people, culture and society.

[jdinasia]

Paul ... I think you should really come to Thailand ... spend some REAL time here ... learn the language etc

[moonoi]

Paul ... I think you should really come to Thailand ... spend some REAL time here ... learn the language etc

Agreed.....with "real" Thai people. Not just those that inhabit Pattaya

[qwertz]

Paul ... I think you should really come to Thailand ... spend some REAL time here ... learn the language etc

Agreed.....with "real" Thai people. Not just those that inhabit Pattaya

There's lots of them, moonoi, they're just thin on the ground in Patts and Phuket.

[Torv]

Thai people are generally friendly to foreigners espeically white folks.

It's true.

[jdinasia]

Paul ... I think you should really come to Thailand ... spend some REAL time here ... learn the language etc

Agreed.....with "real" Thai people. Not just those that inhabit Pattaya

There's lots of them, moonoi, they're just thin on the ground in Patts and Phuket.

I think you mean Pattaya and Patong

[sukanyacondo]

"I think many are confused as to why some want a particular color, creed or race to do certain things. In the 40's and 50's everyone in the USA wanted a black nanny."

I dont care if I employ a one legged, blind , deaf monkey, I just want the best life form for the job.

No offence to any one legged blind deaf monkeys looking for employment on this forum

[Etrigan]

"I think many are confused as to why some want a particular color, creed or race to do certain things. In the 40's and 50's everyone in the USA wanted a black nanny."

Care to back that up? There you go again, fallacy after fallacy seems to be your preferred composition style!