Thai Anti Farang Topic...

[PaulUSA302]

I have read the board guidelines and want to keep this topic from being deleted so I ask that all replies be kept factual, non-insulting to Thailand and non-trollish.

I will start this topic by saying that for the most part, all the people I have met in Thailand have been friendly, kind and helpful. I cherish their friendship, insight and advice.... Sometimes, these friends, they complain about the "Farang" in Thailand.

I don't think I am allowed to say what they complained about.

[Totster]

In my experience topics like this one rapidly deteriorate, at the first sign of that happening in this topic it will be closed. Just wanted forewarn you so it won't be a surprise and you won't feel too disappointed.

totster

[qwertz]

I'll kick off for you, Paul.

I've been doing Thailand for many years and once lived there for a while in CM.

I've never had much trouble with the people but I'm a low profile guy so maybe that's how I stay out of trouble.

Most of the Thais who complained about me were the ones who couldn't sell me something but I regard that as business any, not socialising.

P.S. Isn't this similar theme to one of my threads though - Assimilation in Los and how to do it?

Edited June 20, 2007 by qwertz

[PaulUSA302]

Thanks! I appreciate the warning and with luck we all will learn something from each other. If it does deteriorate than I would be in total support of it being deleted from the board. Thanks for the reminder and with luck it will help set the proper tone......

In my experience topics like this one rapidly deteriorate, at the first sign of that happening in this topic it will be closed. Just wanted forewarn you so it won't be a surprise and you won't feel too disappointed.

totster

[jdinasia]

Thanks! I appreciate the warning and with luck we all will learn something from each other. If it does deteriorate than I would be in total support of it being deleted from the board. Thanks for the reminder and with luck it will help set the proper tone......

In my experience topics like this one rapidly deteriorate, at the first sign of that happening in this topic it will be closed. Just wanted forewarn you so it won't be a surprise and you won't feel too disappointed.

totster

I don't even know what the topic is!

[Jimjim]

I don't even know what the topic is!

Agreed. Why not try and tell us what your friends complained about?

[PaulUSA302]

One day when I was in Pattaya. I was walking with my camera to take pictures of anything I found interesting. I saw an older Thai lady waiting to catch a Baht-Bus. Each time a baht-bus approached, her body language indicated that she wanted to get on but the driver didn't stop. I watched this happen 2 or 3 times. When I got to where she was standing, I stood next to her and waited. A baht-bus stopped, she got on and I continued my walk.

Can you imagine how much damage this does to the Thai / Visitor relationship? Already they are paid less in many cases, and then to hear stories of service workers ignoring and or being rude to them because of the chance if getting a few baht more?

And with American music and movies spreading the word to fight the power..... I only see bigger problems coming.

[Jimjim]

I think you told that story before, or I'm having serious deja vu.

[PaulUSA302]

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

I don't even know what the topic is!

Agreed. Why not try and tell us what your friends complained about?

Edited June 20, 2007 by PaulUSA302

[jdinasia]

One day when I was in Pattaya. I was walking with my camera to take pictures of anything I found interesting. I saw an older Thai lady waiting to catch a Baht-Bus. Each time a baht-bus approached, her body language indicated that she wanted to get on but the driver didn't stop. I watched this happen 2 or 3 times. When I got to where she was standing, I stood next to her and waited. A baht-bus stopped, she got on and I continued my walk.

Can you imagine how much damage this does to the Thai / Visitor relationship? Already they are paid less in many cases, and then to hear stories of service workers ignoring and or being rude to them because of the chance if getting a few baht more?

And with American music and movies spreading the word to fight the power..... I only see bigger problems coming.

ahhhh a Pattaya Baht Bus story ...........

well since they charge Thai folks less than farang .. that could be the issue. It could have been empty ones passing that only wanted charters .... they might have known the old gal was a complete tit! Who knows?

Then again if she didn't stick her hand out and wave it down ... that is probably the end of the story

but since this isn't about Thai/Farang issues ... but about Pattaya issues .... wheeeee!

[Jimjim]

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

If you're talking about the profession of women in places like Soi Cowboy, which we're not supposed to talk about, it's a poor complaint from your friends as percentages show more Thai men than farang use the baht in these ways.

[chachachacha]

Lets not mix words on this .The thai's look at farangs as being money machines.Anybody that thinks otherwise has got thier head buried in the sand.They are racist with there own so why not with a farang ?.Ask yourself have you seen a dark thai on tv ? .My lady had a boyfriend before me & he paid a deposit on the room she had .When she decided to move she asked for the deposit that her boyfriend had payed.To which she got the reply that they dont give deposit back to farang. That says it all don't you think.

[PaulUSA302]

It is about Thai/Farang because when they tell the story they won't relate it to Pattaya/non Pattaya...

Jsut as Rosa Parks was not a story about the Bus's in Montgomery...

I bring up the baht-bus story because it is an easy visual to understand. But I see this is not a good topic for this board.

I have nothing investing in sharing information that you may find useful and I am not going to force it on anyone who is unwilling and defensive to the mere thought that a backlash is forming.

[Jimjim]

Lets not mix words on this .The thai's look at farangs as being money machines.Anybody that thinks otherwise has got thier head buried in the sand.They are racist with there own so why not with a farang ?.Ask yourself have you seen a dark thai on tv ? .My lady had a boyfriend before me & he paid a deposit on the room she had .When she decided to move she asked for the deposit that her boyfriend had payed.To which she got the reply that they dont give deposit back to farang. That says it all don't you think.

And so the decline of the thread starts with this one. I've always got my deposits back in Thailand from Thai people.

That says it all don't ya think?

[PaulUSA302]

No, they were not talking about the sex industry... Funny... Anyway, I am looking for a 2 way conversation, I don't want to force feed topic on here. If you find no value here then please, go to the next topic... I don't know how much I am allowed to say and I don't want to get the topic closed. I will try to say what I can when I can but I would guess that you could see where some of the problems can come in? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more? When the father complains about the foreigner getting paid so much more and doing less work do you think his son or daughter will like the foreigners more or less?

I know here in the USA we LOVE it when foreigners get paid more than us! (That is a joke....).

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

If you're talking about the profession of women in places like Soi Cowboy, which we're not supposed to talk about, it's a poor complaint from your friends as percentages show more Thai men than farang use the baht in these ways.

[lannarebirth]

No, they were not talking about the sex industry... Funny... Anyway, I am looking for a 2 way conversation, I don't want to force feed topic on here. If you find no value here then please, go to the next topic... I don't know how much I am allowed to say and I don't want to get the topic closed. I will try to say what I can when I can but I would guess that you could see where some of the problems can come in? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more? When the father complains about the foreigner getting paid so much more and doing less work do you think his son or daughter will like the foreigners more or less?

I know here in the USA we LOVE it when foreigners get paid more than us! (That is a joke....).

I'm not sure I follow you. My best friend here in Thailand is a Thai physician. For the past 3 years he's been recruited to come practice in Canada. He's tempted, because he says the fees to send his kids to BKK's best international school are

killing him. Ultimately, he's deided not to go because the cut in pay would be too great.

So, are you talking about how some farangs have incresed the wealth of some very poor families and communities, say in Isaan? I know the BKK Thais just hate that.

[jdinasia]

No, they were not talking about the sex industry... Funny... Anyway, I am looking for a 2 way conversation, I don't want to force feed topic on here. If you find no value here then please, go to the next topic... I don't know how much I am allowed to say and I don't want to get the topic closed. I will try to say what I can when I can but I would guess that you could see where some of the problems can come in? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more? When the father complains about the foreigner getting paid so much more and doing less work do you think his son or daughter will like the foreigners more or less?

I know here in the USA we LOVE it when foreigners get paid more than us! (That is a joke....).

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

If you're talking about the profession of women in places like Soi Cowboy, which we're not supposed to talk about, it's a poor complaint from your friends as percentages show more Thai men than farang use the baht in these ways.

Ahhhhh got it again .....

Let me help you out of this quandry ....... Thailand is NOT the USA.

There are not a HUGE number of farang working in direct competition (for wages) with Thai people. Western credentialed teachers get paid more than Thai teachers to teach the same subjects quite often and that is about the ONLY field where the numbers are large. I rather doubt that too many of the Thai teachers are very upset about that. I WILL tell you 100% that the student's parents are not upset about it. They WANT white teachers at the schools.

I know you have visited Pattaya and the like some few times ... but really seriously doubt you have your finger on the pulse (Dr reference from earlier ) on descrimination and Thai sentiment.

edit--spelling .. after all it IS 3am here

Edited June 20, 2007 by jdinasia

[JimmyCA]

I have read the board guidelines and want to keep this topic from being deleted so I ask that all replies be kept factual, non-insulting to Thailand and non-trollish.

I will start this topic by saying that for the most part, all the people I have met in Thailand have been friendly, kind and helpful. I cherish their friendship, insight and advice.... Sometimes, these friends, they complain about the "Farang" in Thailand.

I don't think I am allowed to say what they complained about.

This is not a good question for this forum as there is little freedom of expression here or even to include factual comments which conflict with the sites biased policies. So you are basically wasting your time with this question.

[PaulUSA302]

Well then I don't know why the people I talk to were so pissed? They had no valid reason to be outraged and why they are not loosing face for all the visitors tossing baht around...

I made a mistake and went into a what if. I should not had done that. I will tell you that I talk with a intern who complained often about the treatment the Thai received compared to their Farang equals.

He told me about a rainy day when one senior doctor was given an umbrella to walk a farang doctor to his car so that he would not get wet....

I don't know how true that story was but he led me to believe that it has caused some problems in a few of their bellies.

[PaulUSA302]

Your right. I can't say what was said to me, and I am not trying to "Debate" others thoughts. I only wanted to share what I have been told more times than once. So I will answer any reasonable post that I have an answer for but for the others I will just leave them alone.

I have read the board guidelines and want to keep this topic from being deleted so I ask that all replies be kept factual, non-insulting to Thailand and non-trollish.

I will start this topic by saying that for the most part, all the people I have met in Thailand have been friendly, kind and helpful. I cherish their friendship, insight and advice.... Sometimes, these friends, they complain about the "Farang" in Thailand.

I don't think I am allowed to say what they complained about.

This is not a good question for this forum as there is little freedom of expression here or even to include factual comments which conflict with the sites biased policies. So you are basically wasting your time with this question.

[TAWP]

No, they were not talking about the sex industry... Funny... Anyway, I am looking for a 2 way conversation, I don't want to force feed topic on here. If you find no value here then please, go to the next topic... I don't know how much I am allowed to say and I don't want to get the topic closed. I will try to say what I can when I can but I would guess that you could see where some of the problems can come in? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more? When the father complains about the foreigner getting paid so much more and doing less work do you think his son or daughter will like the foreigners more or less?

I know here in the USA we LOVE it when foreigners get paid more than us! (That is a joke....).

This argument comes from ignorance. Ignorance can only be cured with information. if the reciever acctually tries to listen.

I will give you some examples:

Telling a thai friend/'relative' that:

- I need to go to the border every 90 days.

- That I need workpermit to work.

- That WP isn't given for salary below 32K in BKK (discount teacher that requires diploma and whatnot).

- That even volontare-work requires a WP.

- That helping a family biz goes under job, even if unpaid, and requires a WP.

- That one needs to carry 10K in the pocket (20K now!) at border-hops even if one carries a VISA/Mastercard.

- That one is required by law to always carry the passport with you.

And so on, and so on...

All of the above and a lot more will render a look of "you lie/make stuff up/it's an excuse".

To directly counter your argument above, about farang comming and taking jobs and getting higher salaries...it's so increadably uninformed that it hurts.

First of all, in Thailand even more so than my homecountry, the wish to keep salary levels at the absolute minimum is a very high priority. Or to put it in other words: no-one payes more than they have to to get applicants.

So any and all jobs that are taken by a foreigner is done so due to that person filling the requirements and out-fighting some local person in skill level and salary-requirement.

Farangs don't come and raise the salaries - why on earth would anyone hire a farang that would be equally skilled as a local person, but wants higher salary? It just doesn't make any sense.

But whatever floats the haters boats.

[jdinasia]

Well then I don't know why the people I talk to were so pissed? They had no valid reason to be outraged and why they are not loosing face for all the visitors tossing baht around...

I made a mistake and went into a what if. I should not had done that. I will tell you that I talk with a intern who complained often about the treatment the Thai received compared to their Farang equals.

He told me about a rainy day when one senior doctor was given an umbrella to walk a farang doctor to his car so that he would not get wet....

I don't know how true that story was but he led me to believe that it has caused some problems in a few of their bellies.

Not likely a true story ..... but who knows! Basically you are carrying your western context into Thailand and trying to apply it here. Having perused your posting history I would assume that you must have been having your conversations in English and not Thai. it would not be TOOOOO much of a stretch for you to be hearing what you want to hear ... either because of personal bias ... or because you gave indication to thinking something was wrong ... and so got a story from someone about how it was wrong.

Walk down a bangkok street ... be a sweaty American ... find a Thai that speaks English and say " ###### it is hot out today! " You will get the reply "yes very hot!" (and if he had seen enough television he might add "you could fry an egg on the sidewalk!") Trust me ... the person you met may not think the day was particularly hot at all. He was simply being polite by agreeing with you! You will know you are really accepted by the person if in all fiendliness he says "What? Are you kidding? Today I had to put on a long sleeve jacket to get to work!"

[qwertz]

This thread is on the road to nowhere.

Paul can't tell us what the friends said, which is the subject of his first post but against board policy?

Are we supposed to play let's suppose?

Come on Paul, post something meaty for a change.

Get a thread.

[chaiyen]

One day when I was in Pattaya. I was walking with my camera to take pictures of anything I found interesting. I saw an older Thai lady waiting to catch a Baht-Bus. Each time a baht-bus approached, her body language indicated that she wanted to get on but the driver didn't stop. I watched this happen 2 or 3 times. When I got to where she was standing, I stood next to her and waited. A baht-bus stopped, she got on and I continued my walk.

Can you imagine how much damage this does to the Thai / Visitor relationship? Already they are paid less in many cases, and then to hear stories of service workers ignoring and or being rude to them because of the chance if getting a few baht more?

And with American music and movies spreading the word to fight the power..... I only see bigger problems coming.

I agree with you 100%.

[wolfmanjack]

This thread is on the road to nowhere.

Paul can't tell us what the friends said, which is the subject of his first post but against board policy?

Are we supposed to play let's suppose?

Come on Paul, post something meaty for a change.

Get a thread.

Maybe the mods can help us out. Since Totster is the Mod that warned us about the possibility of closing this thread, why don't you pm him and ask if what the thais said can be posted ?????????????

The only thing i can relate to his postings is that sometimes thai sales people will ignore my wife but when I walk in they will come right up to me. This pisses her off at the thai people. I could see how some thais would turn what happened around and be pissed off at falangs.

[jumnien]

Anthropological studies based on elderly Thai ladies hailing baht buses in Pattaya are not relevant to Thailand in general.

[PaulUSA302]

What I have heard over and over again are that they don't like the Farang throwing their money around and forcing their fellow Thai to be treated as lowers for the money. They did not like the attitude of the Farang towards the Thai people. The did not like the Farang men coming for their women. They did not like how the Farang look down on their society and culture.

At one party the guys began to talk about the "Farang" attitude, the "farang" money and how the "farang" think their money is everything and because they think their money is everything we make them pay more for everything and on and on.

This is what they told me on my many trips to Thailand. I don't know why I am so lucky to get to know their "Not so Polite but real" thoughts. Maybe because I am a Black American they feel as if I can relate. Maybe they are telling me this because they think it is what I want to hear.... But it has happened too often and in too many different situations for me to think they are telling me their feelings to please me.

[Pepe']

[PaulUSA302]

For some reason I was thinking this could be a valued topic on the board but I was wrong....

If this thread were to vanish I would would not have a problem with it.

[jumnien]

My dearest Paul,

I suggest that your observations have much to do from the places you are observing from. Widen your experience of Thailand and you will undoubtedly see a wider perspective which you will enjoy deeply.

Drop by Hua Hin for a cup of coffee and a free airplane ride sometime!