UPS Power draw.

[MJCM]

We are using many UPS's because we have frequent Micro Power Cuts.

 

I just received my Power Monitor and immediately nothing something strange.

 

The UPS (where our Fridge is plugged into) which is Plugged into Main Electric is pulling 170 watts with the Fridge being on standby and from a separate test found out that the fridge is only drawing approx 9-12 watts (on standby)

 

Even with the UPS turned off but still connected to mains it's drawing 14 watts.

 

So can some explain the 158 Watts that the Ups is using? Battery charging? But we haven't got a power cut recently!

 

I can think of 1 reason is that the Battery doesn't hold it's charge anymore?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by MJCM

[OneMoreFarang]

As far as I know (normal) UPS are not designed to work with a fridge or fan, etc.

[MJCM]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

As far as I know (normal) UPS are not designed to work with a fridge or fan, etc.

I asked the manufacturer from the fridge and they had no comments about using a UPS.

 

May I ask why you think that?

[Crossy]

Unless your UPS is pure-sine anything with an induction motor may make "interesting" noises or potentially overheat.

 

Of course, this doesn't apply to "inverter" fridges.

 

For short times, shouldn't really be an issue.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, MJCM said:

I asked the manufacturer from the fridge and they had no comments about using a UPS.

 

May I ask why you think that?

Over the years I bought a couple of UPS for computers and I think I saw in the manuals warnings how not to use UPS.

I just googled this and it seems there are answer like: you shouldn't do it but it might work.

I leave it up to you to check the details which might depend on the UPS model and on the fridge model.

My comment was more in general like: Consider that maybe/probably you shouldn't do it.

[MJCM]

 

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

My comment was more in general like: Consider that maybe/probably you shouldn't do it.

I fully agree and thank you for that, but what I am more afraid is the surges after the power comes back on after the power has been out for 1 sec or less, and AFAIK that could fry the electrical components in for example a Fridge!

 

And these Micro Cuts happen a lot where we live.

 

Ps: this UPS is now connected to the same fridge just over 1 year!

 

PsPS: This is the UPS in question!

 

Edit: Forgot to add link ????

 

https://www.advice.co.th/product/ups-เครื่องสำรองไฟ-/apc/ups-700va-apc-bvx700lui-ms

 

Edit2: Id rather buy a new ups then a NEW 2 Door 22q Fridge ????

Edited August 4, 2022 by MJCM

[MJCM]

26 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Unless your UPS is pure-sine anything with an induction motor may make "interesting" noises or potentially overheat.

 

Of course, this doesn't apply to "inverter" fridges.

 

For short times, shouldn't really be an issue.

 

 

Never heard the fridge making interesting noises or any other off the devices which are connected to a UPS?

 

What do you mean by "Short times" The noises? Or the connection of the devices to the UPS?

Edited August 4, 2022 by MJCM

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, MJCM said:

 

Never heard the fridge making interesting noises or any other off the devices which are connected to a UPS?

 

What do you mean by "Short times" The noises? Or the connection of the devices to the UPS?

 

Short time running with the UPS on battery, that's the only time that the inverter part is operating ????

 

[FriendlyFarang]

In my experience fans don't work connected to an UPS, no idea which effect it might have on a frigde though.

Why is the fridge even connected to the UPS? Even after hours without electricity it's still cold.

[MJCM]

12 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

In my experience fans don't work connected to an UPS, no idea which effect it might have on a frigde though.

Why is the fridge even connected to the UPS? Even after hours without electricity it's still cold.

We have Many Micro Outages (lasting from <1 - 5 sec) and sometimes even longer outages. (12hrs is the max)

 

But I am more afraid of those Micro Outage

 

AFAIK:

Mains OFF - <1 sec - Mains On -> Power Surge -> Fridge Kaputt (if too many)

Edited August 4, 2022 by MJCM

[MJCM]

17 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Short time running with the UPS on battery, that's the only time that the inverter part is operating ????

 

Never heard any strange noises then also not from other devices.

 

The only noises I hear is

 

Beeping (when UPS on Battery).

Ticking (from UPS) when PEA doesn't deliver enough power)

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, MJCM said:

But I am more afraid of those Micro Outage

Then maybe you need surge protection and not a UPS.

[MJCM]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Then maybe you need surge protection and not a UPS.

Yeah was thinking about that, but then what about my NAS and Router / Modem as they are all connected to a UPS (separate ones though)

 

My guess is that when a Surge comes it kills the UPS and not the device behind it (could be wrong of course) and it's a lot cheaper to buy a new UPS then a Fridge or a NAS ????

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, MJCM said:

Yeah was thinking about that, but then what about my NAS and Router / Modem as they are all connected to a UPS (separate ones though)

 

My guess is that when a Surge comes it kills the UPS and not the device behind it (could be wrong of course) and it's a lot cheaper to buy a new UPS then a Fridge or a NAS ????

I am not up to date on UPS technology. But as far as I know there are different technologies.

 

I think some always work like convert AC to DC, store it in a battery, recreate AC

As far as I know they are seldom and expensive.

Cheaper UPS use shortcuts and maybe are not active at all under normal conditions, just (more or less) straight through until they have to change. 

There is a reason why some UPS are cheap and others with similar VA values are a lot more expensive.

 

Here is some info about different UPS types. It's just the first link which I found. I didn't read it in detail.

Three types of UPS Technologies - Enterprise Control Systems (datacenterexperts.com)

 

From that article:

Offline Standby Technology

Advantages:

• Low cost
• Silent operation when in standby
• Efficient

Disadvantages:

• Minimal power protection - only protects against a small percentage of problems
• Poor output voltage regulation - sags and surges will be passed straight to the load
• Break transfer to battery mode
• No failsafe - UPS will drop the load if there is a high start-up current, overload or inverter failure

•  

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by OneMoreFarang

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, MJCM said:

Yeah was thinking about that, but then what about my NAS and Router / Modem as they are all connected to a UPS (separate ones though)

 

My guess is that when a Surge comes it kills the UPS and not the device behind it (could be wrong of course) and it's a lot cheaper to buy a new UPS then a Fridge or a NAS ????

 

What sort of "surges" are you protecting against?

• Lightning induced surges - Use MOV surge suppressors (most UPSs include these).
• Voltage surges when the power returns after a blackout - Use a delayed re-start unit.

I would suggest that all of us should use MOVs by default, either nice meaty ones on the incoming supplies or good quality plug-in units on the expensive gear (or both of course).

 

[degrub]

Three lightning strikes within 100 ft of my house in as many years convinced me of using supply MOVs +  a set at each device.  Won’t be adequate for a direct hit, but so far, so good. Probably about time to change out the one at the mains as it has been 10+ years.

[unheard]

17 hours ago, MJCM said:

Id rather buy a new ups then a NEW 2 Door 22q Fridge ????

What made you think that all those multiple micro blackouts/brownouts and service return surges will damage your refrigerator?

In our area we have the similarly bad grid "behavior" but my refrigerators (3) are still running just fine.

The oldest one is more than 3 decades old, has experienced the worst of it during the prior years when the grid was even worse: still running like a champ!

Another one is much newer non-inverter - no problems.

The newest one is of the inverter type and is also running fine.

[unheard]

17 hours ago, MJCM said:

 

I fully agree and thank you for that, but what I am more afraid is the surges after the power comes back on after the power has been out for 1 sec or less, and AFAIK that could fry the electrical components in for example a Fridge!

From what I understand the modern grid is safe enough for all modern appliances, otherwise you would constantly hear stories all around you from people complaining of damaged refrigerators.

[MJCM]

3 minutes ago, unheard said:

What made you think that all those multiple micro blackouts/brownouts and service return surges will damage your refrigerator?

But they can't be good for any electronic device.

 

The power is sometimes off for less then a Sec and then comes back one immediately (our emergency lights come on and immediately turn off). So there will be a surge.

 

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Voltage surges when the power returns after a blackout - Use a delayed re-start unit.

I am looking into this for our fridge to remove the UPS!

[MJCM]

4 minutes ago, unheard said:

From what I understand the modern grid is safe enough for all modern appliances, otherwise you would constantly hear stories all around you from people complaining of damaged refrigerators.

BIL 2 fridges in 2 years broken! Put in a UPS for him and now his fridge is still working 3 years on (it's an Inverter)

Could also be that the fridges were faulty or his electric install ????

Edited August 5, 2022 by MJCM

[unheard]

Just now, MJCM said:

But they can't be good for any electronic device.

 

The power is sometimes off for less then a Sec and then comes back one immediately (our emergency lights come on and immediately turn off). So there will be a surge.

 

I am looking into this for our fridge to remove the UPS!

The surges are not good but from my limited knowledge and experience there's enough of endurance built in not to be a problem.

btw, I experience the similar multiple 1 sec on/off grid "fluctuations".

Any modern refrigerar has a delayed restart built-in, and probably other safety features to make it non-issue.

[MJCM]

3 minutes ago, unheard said:

Any modern refrigerar has a delayed restart built-in, and probably other safety features to make it non-issue.

Yeah I have noticed that the same with Aircons, when the power comes back on it takes a while for them to start-up again!

 

But what about other appliances? For example a NAS / TV / Router?

Edited August 5, 2022 by MJCM

[unheard]

3 minutes ago, MJCM said:

BIL 2 fridges in 2 years broken! Put in a UPS for him and now his fridge is still working 3 years on (it's an Inverter)

Could also be that the fridges were faulty or his electric install ????

Could be many things.

Ask your neighbors.

If their fridges don't experience any failures then you could eliminate the grid factor as the culprit of your problems.

I bet they're running no UPS's.

[unheard]

8 minutes ago, MJCM said:

But what about other appliances? For example a NAS / TV / Router?

A NAS, TV, Router have even more robust power supplies which are even less succeptabe to those problems.

The main and normally the only reason to put those devices on a UPS is to either prevent service interruption or in the case of NAS to allow for a safe and orderly shutdown.

Edited August 5, 2022 by unheard

[MJCM]

Just now, unheard said:

Could be many things.

Ask your neighbors.

If their fridges don't experience any failures then you could eliminate the grid factor as the culprit of your problems.

I bet they're running no UPS's.

The next door neighbor has a fridge out of the year zero (which is still going strong)

The only neighbor I know that has them is a Swissie and he swears by them!

 

But you made your point and it's understood, but I have more then 1 UPS, not only for the Fridge, but also one for my NAS and one for Router and Modem and Switch!

 

The fridge one oke will go when I find a good solution (like the one that Crossy suggested)!

[MJCM]

- withdrawn - did not read the full post!

Edited August 5, 2022 by MJCM

[MJCM]

1 minute ago, unheard said:

A NAS, TV, Router have even more robust power supplies which are even less succeptabe to those problems.

The main and normally the only reason to put those devices on a UPS is to either prevent service interruption or in the case of NAS to allow for a safe and orderly shutdown.

Oke. But i will not get rid of the UPS for those!

[peterfranks]

25 minutes ago, unheard said:

What made you think that all those multiple micro blackouts/brownouts and service return surges will damage your refrigerator?

I have been told that those micro blackouts are deadly for the digital inverter fridges

[unheard]

8 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Oke. But i will not get rid of the UPS for those!

Absolutely!

With my grid problems I have almost all of smaller type electronics running on multiple UPS's, so I could use those devices without much of interruption, short of the multiple hour blackout.

With so many blackouts in my area it would be very frustrating not to.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by unheard

[MJCM]

7 minutes ago, unheard said:

Absolutely!

With my grid problems I have almost all of smaller type electronics running on multiple UPS's, so I could use those devices without much of interruption, short of the multiple hour blackout.

With so many blackouts in my area it would be very frustrating not to.

 

But may I suggest in buying a Power Monitor and see if there is no leakage of power / battery not holding it's charge anymore on the UPS. That is the reason why I opened this thread

 

Quote

The UPS (where our Fridge is plugged into) which is Plugged into Main Electric is pulling 170 watts with the Fridge being on standby and from a separate test found out that the fridge is only drawing approx 9-12 watts (on standby)

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by MJCM